Is America Taxed too Much?

[driphoney]

We have nearly 50% taxes and would be happy, if we only got 35% taxes in the lowest group.

Our value-added tax is at 19 % now.

Are you all happy with that?

Oh, and what's your unemployment rate? Just curious.
Gee, guess I could google it, but where's the fun in that?

 

[Liar]

You call 40+% low?

As a total tax burden per person? Comparably, yes.

Signed,
The Rest Of The World.

 

[PoppingTom]

Are you all happy with that?

Oh, and what's your unemployment rate? Just curious.

1. No, we aren't very happy with that, but our much bigger problem is the bureaucracy behind that and that the masses of loopholes in our tax system makes the tax declaration a real science for absolutely everyone.

2. We always had an unemployment rate of 10 %, but half of them don't take the next work possible because of too low payment. If you have a family and get over 1000 Euro from the states as "social help", you don't need to take a job for 800 Euro.

 

[Liar]

Are you all happy with that?

Oh, and what's your unemployment rate? Just curious.
Gee, guess I could google it, but where's the fun in that?

I'm self employed. But I calculated my total tax burden based on salary, like a normal working stiff would.

Roughly 27% income tax.

6-25% VAT on most private purchases. Plus a handful of excise taxes on some of them. But I don't see them per se. It's added to the price tag by the re-seller, who is actually doing the tax-paying. But I'm adding them anyway, since they were on trysail's list.

Property tax on a summer house I co-own.

Naval tax on two boats.

National Museup upkeep fee on one of them, since it's a vintage scooner with a Culture Heritage classification, mening that if I croak, the National Museum is obliged to take care of it, if noone else will.

I think that's it. Evens out at 50-ish percent.

Am I happy with that? No, I would like it to be lower. Just as I would like beer to be cheaper, days to be sunnier and and women to be easier.

But it's the rent I pay to live in this country. And this country is, all in all, worth the rent.

 

[R. Richard]

1852
Lotteries become a major revenue source.
Clerks of Circuit Court collected license fees for billiard
tables, wood hucksters, marriages and oyster houses.

What the hell is a 'wood huckster?'

 

[trysail]

But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.

— Frédéric Bastiat
The Law (1850)

 

[PoppingTom]

We're proud of you, trysail!

 

[Liar]

Sure, try.

But you just described any taxation. Of anything. For any purpose. Ever.

 

[trysail]

Sure, try.

But you just described any taxation. Of anything. For any purpose. Ever.

If you are referring to the Bastiat quotation, it describes unequal taxation. There's a BIG difference betwixt that and "any taxation." If everybody pays the same, it is— by definition— equal.

As you may be aware, the U.S. is now in the rather bizarre situation of having fully one half of its population paying no ( as in zero, nil, none, nada ) federal income tax.

 

[driphoney]

1852
Lotteries become a major revenue source.
Clerks of Circuit Court collected license fees for billiard
tables, wood hucksters, marriages and oyster houses.

What the hell is a 'wood huckster?'

Hmmmm.


Stella! Oh, Stella!!

 

[driphoney]

1. No, we aren't very happy with that, but our much bigger problem is the bureaucracy behind that and that the masses of loopholes in our tax system makes the tax declaration a real science for absolutely everyone.

2. We always had an unemployment rate of 10 %, but half of them don't take the next work possible because of too low payment. If you have a family and get over 1000 Euro from the states as "social help", you don't need to take a job for 800 Euro.

I thought it was higher, but didn't know. What is the average German work-week? I did read an article a while ago on the issues that VW was facing, but that's pretty microscopic.

How do you think you might be able to reduced bureaucratic weight and the red-tape and loop-holes it generates?

Oh, and can I ask one more really nosey question? A long time ago, a German citizen's part was to paid 100DM/yr into the national healthcare system for that coverage. Is it still the same? If not, how is it different today? Again, it could google, but that gets so old, and I love hearing from a living, breathing person.

Thanks.

 

[Smarmy_and_Sappe]

1852
Lotteries become a major revenue source.
Clerks of Circuit Court collected license fees for billiard
tables, wood hucksters, marriages and oyster houses.

What the hell is a 'wood huckster?'

A wood peddler. I'm guessing firewood.

 

[trysail]

1852
Lotteries become a major revenue source.
Clerks of Circuit Court collected license fees for billiard
tables, wood hucksters, marriages and oyster houses.

What the hell is a 'wood huckster?'

Hmmmm.


Stella! Oh, Stella!!

I'm not entirely sure I want to "go there." Let's just say it's possible that Eric Partridge may list multiple definitions.


However, given the context, I will hazard the guess that a "wood huckster" was ( is ) a firewood merchant.

 

[R. Richard]

I did some research. The only references I could find seem to indicate that a 'wood huckster' was a person who built things like wagon bodies. Perhaps something like a step or two below a cabinet maker.

The references were mainly found in a Ford Model A forum. Some of the Model A truck type vehicles had wooden bodies. (Ref: Beachboy's songs.) There was a guy who was restoring a Model A delivery vehicle and he wanted a wood huckster to build him a wood body.

Next question, Would a wood huckster dance the hucklebuck?

 

[BrokenRiver]

66% Say America Is Overtaxed
Sunday, April 11, 2010

When thinking about all the services provided by federal, state and local governments, 75% of voters nationwide say the average American should pay no more than 20% of their income in taxes.

However, the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that most voters (55%) believe the average American actually pays 30% or more of their income in taxes.

Sixty-six percent (66%) believe that America is overtaxed. Only 25% disagree.
Lower income voters are more likely than others to believe the nation is overtaxed.

Services my ass! Government waste is why we are
overtaxed, not because fo the services they provide. Only a fool think we are under taxed.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Questions arise.

20% is as arbitrary a number as any. Why 20%?

55% believe the average American actually pays 30% or more of their income in taxes. Okaaaay? The only thing that's relevant there is: Are they right? Or is a majority of Americans ill informed?

What does "overtaxed" mean?

Didn't you read the whole article? Or just the blurb I put up?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Here's the goal for all of you that voted no in the poll...

If you are a US citizen or person who pays US Income Tax and are expecting a refund because of deduction you can take...don't.

If you are not a US citizen or person who does not pay US Income Tax...

1. why did you vote?
2. do what you think is right and send your government more or your money.

If you are a US Citizen or person who would pay US income taxes but for reasons we won't got into now and you voted NO, then go get a job and send every penny you earn to the government.

For those of you who picked any other option congratulations.

 

[Liar]

If you are referring to the Bastiat quotation, it describes unequal taxation. There's a BIG difference betwixt that and "any taxation." If everybody pays the same, it is— by definition— equal.

As you may be aware, the U.S. is now in the rather bizarre situation of having fully one half of its population paying no ( as in zero, nil, none, nada ) federal income tax.

That may be what Bastiat referred to, but the quote, as is, describes any and all taxation.

Even if you tax people equally, it is a system with the sole purpose of redistribution or resources. Because a) we're talking percentages (right?) so you take more money from a rich than a poor person. And b) eventually, you give the money to someone else. Directly as welfare to an individual, or as public job wages or commersial contractors, or indirectly as public sector improvment that benefits a limited amount of people, probably nor you..

 

[amicus]

Tax Freedom Day is that day in each year that you have to work just to pay taxes.

US 99 26.9% 9 April 2010
UK 134 36.7% 14 May 2009
Belgium 159 43.3% 8 June 2009
Canada 157 42.6% 6 June 2009
Germany 190 51.73% 8 July 2008
France 197 53.6% 16 July 2007
Israel 197 53.8% 15 July 2008
Sweden 209 57% 29 July 2007
Norway 210 56.7% 29 July 2007

Interpret the numbers as you may...the first column of nunbers is the days worked to pay taxes before you begin working for yourself.

How these numbers were arrived at may be seen by visiting Tax Foundation for US figures, and wikipedia for other nations.

I do have some sympathy for the poor, and I do mean, poor, Norwegians, sorry guys...

Amicus Veritas

 

[Liar]

Didn't you read the whole article? Or just the blurb I put up?

Yes I did. It didn't adress those questions, or I must have totally missed it.

 

[Liar]

Tax Freedom Day is that day in each year that you have to work just to pay taxes.

US 99 26.9% 9 April 2010
UK 134 36.7% 14 May 2009
Belgium 159 43.3% 8 June 2009
Canada 157 42.6% 6 June 2009
Germany 190 51.73% 8 July 2008
France 197 53.6% 16 July 2007
Israel 197 53.8% 15 July 2008
Sweden 209 57% 29 July 2007
Norway 210 56.7% 29 July 2007

Interpret the numbers as you may...the first column of nunbers is the days worked to pay taxes before you begin working for yourself.

How these numbers were arrived at may be seen by visiting Tax Foundation for US figures, and wikipedia for other nations.

I do have some sympathy for the poor, and I do mean, poor, Norwegians, sorry guys...

Amicus Veritas

Yes, poor poor Norweigans. Forced to scrape by on the highest standard of living in the world.

 

[Smarmy_and_Sappe]

Here's the goal for all of you that voted no in the poll...

If you are a US citizen or person who pays US Income Tax and are expecting a refund because of deduction you can take...don't.

If you are not a US citizen or person who does not pay US Income Tax...

1. why did you vote?
2. do what you think is right and send your government more or your money.

If you are a US Citizen or person who would pay US income taxes but for reasons we won't got into now and you voted NO, then go get a job and send every penny you earn to the government.

For those of you who picked any other option congratulations.

For Tax Year 2008 I grossed 128,000.00 and paid 14,000.00 in income tax
For Tax Year 2009 I grossed 131,000.00 and paid 13,130.00 in income tax

Surprise, I actually paid less under Obama.

I live in a state with no income tax, the sales tax is 6.00 percent and my property taxes were about 1600.00 for both years.

No, I don't feel that I'm over taxed.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Yes I did. It didn't adress those questions, or I must have totally missed it.

Well kind of...click here for poll question that produced the results.

This is from Wiki and is about 2007 but taxes haven't gone down since then so the numbers are still relevant.

Tax distribution
As of 2007, there are about 138 million taxpayers in the United States.[5] The Treasury Department in 2006 reported, based on Internal Revenue Service (IRS) data, the share of federal income taxes paid by taxpayers of various income levels.

The data shows the progressive tax structure of the U.S. federal income tax system on individuals that reduces the tax incidence of people with smaller incomes, as they shift the incidence disproportionately to those with higher incomes - the top 0.1% of taxpayers by income pay 17.4% of federal income taxes (earning 9.1% of the income), the top 1% with gross income of $328,049 or more pay 36.9% (earning 19%), the top 5% with gross income of $137,056 or more pay 57.1% (earning 33.4%), and the bottom 50% with gross income of $30,122 or less pay 3.3% (earning 13.4%).[6][7]

If the federal taxation rate is compared with the wealth distribution rate, the net wealth (not only income but also including real estate, cars, house, stocks, etc) distribution of the United States does almost coincide with the share of income tax - the top 1% pay 36.9% of federal tax (wealth 32.7%), the top 5% pay 57.1% (wealth 57.2%), top 10% pay 68% (wealth 69.8%), and the bottom 50% pay 3.3% (wealth 2.8%).[8]

Other taxes in the United States with a less progressive structure or a regressive structure, and legal tax avoidance loopholes change the overall tax burden distribution. For example, the payroll tax system (FICA), a 12.4% Social Security tax on wages up to $106,800 (for 2009) and a 2.9% Medicare tax (a 15.3% total tax that is often split between employee and employer) is called a regressive tax on income with no standard deduction or personal exemptions but in effect is forced savings which return to the payer in the form of retirement benefits and health care. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities states that three-fourths of U.S. taxpayers pay more in payroll taxes than they do in income taxes.[9]

The National Bureau of Economic Research has concluded that the combined federal, state, and local government average marginal tax rate for most workers to be about 40% of income.[10][11]

 

[Zeb_Carter]

For Tax Year 2008 I grossed 128,000.00 and paid 14,000.00 in income tax
For Tax Year 2009 I grossed 131,000.00 and paid 13,130.00 in income tax

Surprise, I actually paid less under Obama.

I live in a state with no income tax, the sales tax is 6.00 percent and my property taxes were about 1600.00 for both years.

No, I don't feel that I'm over taxed.

Surprise that was the Bush tax cuts that are still in effect for 2009. Obama had nothing to do with it! He is going to let them expire so in 2010 expect a big increase over 2009.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Yes, poor poor Norweigans. Forced to scrape by on the highest standard of living in the world.

And yet, if Norway were to be admitted to the United States, they would rank just ahead of Missouri in per capita income. Go figure.