An Islamic Europe?

[amicus]

The title is also the key word search that produced the following:

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/tw-mag.cgi?category=Magazine42&item=1149293702

It was spurred by an intelligence assessment by US agencies concerning where the next Terrorist attack might originate and the conclusion was....Western Europe.

Thoughts?

Amicus

 

[JackLuis]

It wouldn't surprise me if the "Sheiks" were in Europe, but they would use Arabs, Muslims, and the like for actions. Though, we have seen even Americans, follow their religion instead of the Constitution, so maybe we ought to look here at home for law breakers? I could point out a few to Mr. Holder, but I'm sure he's too busy.

The Germans, Dutch and the Swiss all have these concerns and there is a anti-Muslim movement building. Will they be the "New Jews?" I doubt it but Turkey is in and mix and they are aggressive. Unrest in the Balkans? More likely the French, or Spain.

 

[PoppingTom]

An Islamic Europe?

Yes, possible. But let's talk about that 50-100 years later. Muslims are slowly begin to integrate into our society, so it needs time until they simply can speak their demands for taken seriously. A lot of Turkish muslims take their children to Catholic kindergartens. We don't have a muslim ghetto, no muslim can call himself martyr in our country, like maybe in Israel, or like Blacks in America.

An Islamic terrorist attack ?

Well, we wait since 9/11. We expect it, but we don't have something similar to the Twin Towers. Maybe because our secret service works. Maybe because there's no reason to attack us.

 

[amicus]

Part of the reason for searching the subject, aside from the Intelligence report referred to, is that I am researching a book on the next Terrorist attack in America.

Aside from a porous border both to the North and to the South, over which both weapons are terrorists could cross, there is the Militant Black Muslim contingent, seven of which were recently arrested in Miami for plotting various attacks.

Muslims, Islam in general is on the growth pattern in Africa and Asia and in the Philippines and have been found to be behind many terrorist attacks on soft civilian targets.

It is difficult to ferret out a central command structure, even with Bin Lauden, but I suspect it is written in the Koran that a 'Caliphate' extending Islam to all parts of the world has engendered a loose cooperation among activists.

Research does not always provide what I expected to find as material for a novel.

(I just watched again, "Dirty War", an attack in London by Islamic Terrorists. Fiction to be sure...but...?

Amicus

 

[JackLuis]

Follow the money, Amicus.

AQ has to have money and their "Sheiks" are the conduit for raising and dispensing the money. If you are talking about a major attack, not some foreskin bomber nutcases, it takes a lot of money.

Yemen may be losing it's renown for terrorists, but it could be a base for the AQIAP to strike hard?

Read the Small War Journal. They are military discussing the situation. There might be some bunnies in it.

 

[amicus]

"Ecce Bono" as I recall and probably mispelled, is, 'follow the money', and true, but the billions of oil dollars flowing into Saudi Arabia, Iran, and a dozen other middle east nations must surely come into play.

I watch the news and films about conflict in the middle east and I see Kalishnikov's by the thousands, RPG's Semtex, Rdx and American made Stinger anti-aircraft missiles and wonder how hard it would be to smuggled them into America and what the cost would be.

Again...all fodder for a work in progress...who knows...?

Amicus

 

[Liar]

Most Muslims in Sweden are as moderate as any Christian here. A not insignificant percentage are actually atheists or practically secular, and only Muslim by tradition, the same way that atheists who celebrate Christmas are. So if they became the majority, there wouldn't be Sharia Shangri-la. They're mostly here to get AWAY from that shit. They have escaped the oppressive theocratic regimes of their homelands to come live in a free society and modern democracy. They are as disconnected from the radical Muslim minority as I am, and don't have all that much more control over them than anyone else.

This means that demographics don't matter. What matters is our counter-terrorism efforts and security intelligence. Which are flailing due to too weak inter-state communication on police and national security matters. The EU needs to reform their shit and quick.

 

[oggbashan]

Amicus needs to worry about home-grown fanatics in the US rather than anything imported from Europe.

Although Europe has failings in dealing with terrorists, it also has successes, but as the Provisional IRA once said: "You (the security services) have to succeed every time. We only need to succeed once."

There is a real threat of terrorist attacks anytime, anywhere, and it doesn't all come from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and other foreign countries. The most dangerous threats come from within.

In the UK, since the 1850s, in any year except during the bombing in WWII, many more people were killed in traffic accidents than by terrorist attacks and bombs. Since the 1960s, even during the height of the Provisional IRA's campaign, more people have been killed every year by DUIs than by bombs.

Og

 

[TxRad]

Amicus needs to worry about home-grown fanatics in the US rather than anything imported from Europe.

Although Europe has failings in dealing with terrorists, it also has successes, but as the Provisional IRA once said: "You (the security services) have to succeed every time. We only need to succeed once."

There is a real threat of terrorist attacks anytime, anywhere, and it doesn't all come from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and other foreign countries. The most dangerous threats come from within.

In the UK, since the 1850s, in any year except during the bombing in WWII, many more people were killed in traffic accidents than by terrorist attacks and bombs. Since the 1960s, even during the height of the Provisional IRA's campaign, more people have been killed every year by DUIs than by bombs.

Og

Ogg, you have to quit confusing Amie with facts.

 

[ishtat]

Ami, the article is published by an evangelical Christian Group who believes that todays issues can be understood by study of the bible. In particular this article suggests that what is happening was prophesised in the Book of Daniel.

Given this background plus the fact that there are significant factual errors in the article it's a pretty weak base for an argument.

Examples of factual errors: France wasn't nearly conquered in the 8th century primarily because France did not exist then. Tours is a fair distance from Paris. The so called Battle of Tours in 1732(If memory serves) only involved the defeat of a small raiding party with no capacity to occupy the land. The Moslems in fact never even ruled the whole of Spain , only about 70% of it at the most.

 

[PoppingTom]

It is difficult to ferret out a central command structure, even with Bin Lauden, but I suspect it is written in the Koran that a 'Caliphate' extending Islam to all parts of the world has engendered a loose cooperation among activists.

There are a few things to say:

1. Forget Bin Laden. He's sedated. Al-Sarkawi showed, how few power Bin Laden has.
2. When looking for extreme islamists, it's better to take a special look to Pakistan and especially his secret service ISI.
3. I think it doesn't make much sense to smuggle weapons to US, when Us itself is a country of unbelievable weapon access, compared to most civil countries.
4. The "Caliphate" idea is mostly preferred by Egyptian "Muslim Brotherhood", which had a very strong influence on Bin Laden and Hamas.

To get a little clue of it all, take a look at "history commons", especially the section of the ISI.

 

[amicus]

There are a few things to say:

1. Forget Bin Laden. He's sedated. Al-Sarkawi showed, how few power Bin Laden has.
2. When looking for extreme islamists, it's better to take a special look to Pakistan and especially his secret service ISI.
3. I think it doesn't make much sense to smuggle weapons to US, when Us itself is a country of unbelievable weapon access, compared to most civil countries.
4. The "Caliphate" idea is mostly preferred by Egyptian "Muslim Brotherhood", which had a very strong influence on Bin Laden and Hamas.

To get a little clue of it all, take a look at "history commons", especially the section of the ISI.

~~~~

Thank you PoppingTom, a valuable source of information and ideas. It is strange sometimes...in the late 1960's doing a talk radio show in Honolulu, I interviewed a Sailor from an Aircraft Carrier in Port who admitted to sabotage of an aircraft. Before the program was over three agents of the FBI came into the studio and took the young man away and made an appointment for me, that same day, to visit the Regional FBI office.

Therein I was given information that confirmed some and refuted other assertions I had made on the air, concerning the Vietnam War and SEATO participation, and other things that I still cannot discuss openly.

There is only so much information a novelist dare put in a book in fear of boring the reader and of getting interest from intelligence agencies, but I do appreciate the link although I really don't want to know all that much about the situation other than the conclusions that can be supported by verifiable factual data.

The ISI is about what I expected, along with the CIA cooperation in many areas. Is or was the BCCI the bank featured in the film "International?" Not sure if it was named as such but it certainly resembles the story line in the movie.

Nice to have you aboard.

Regards....

Amicus

 

[neonlyte]

Rag Heads Rool

They've taken over our local cab service! Smart way to ferret around suburbia casing targets, dropping off 'little parcels' in discrete locations. At night, there's 'undreds of 'em milling around the bars, restaurants and railway station organising and plotting under the pretence of waiting for passengers. They, the cabs, can park right out front of the supermarket to pick up a fare, usually an old lady who clearly cannot afford the cost of taxi - bet she's been buying weed killer and sugar for the Ragheads stockpile of explosives. Neat. And we let 'em get on wiv' it rite under our noses. If you act all friendly wiv'em, you can get all sorts of info. One told me he was a physicist, said he 'ad a degree and everyfing. I says Why you drivin' a cab? He says Cos I like drivin' and it warmer here than in Northern Territories. I says Bradford? He says No... Pakistan. Bomber in't he. Stands to reason, physicist drivin' a cab!!! Bomber!

What really pisses me off is trying to get a cab Friday lunch time - dem ragheads is all down the mosque.










With profound apologies to Muslim's everywere. Regrettably such diatribe is not uncommon in some parts of Europe... and the USA

 

[Boxlicker101]

An Islamic Europe?

Yes, possible. But let's talk about that 50-100 years later. Muslims are slowly begin to integrate into our society, so it needs time until they simply can speak their demands for taken seriously. A lot of Turkish muslims take their children to Catholic kindergartens. We don't have a muslim ghetto, no muslim can call himself martyr in our country, like maybe in Israel, or like Blacks in America.

An Islamic terrorist attack ?

Well, we wait since 9/11. We expect it, but we don't have something similar to the Twin Towers. Maybe because our secret service works. Maybe because there's no reason to attack us.

Be sure to tell the people in Madrid and London about the absence of attacks by Islamic terrorists. They seen to be under the impression that such things happened in their transportatiion systems.

 

[stephen55]

Ami is losing it.....big time.....

The title is also the key word search that produced the following:

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/tw-mag.cgi?category=Magazine42&item=1149293702

It was spurred by an intelligence assessment by US agencies concerning where the next Terrorist attack might originate and the conclusion was....Western Europe.

Thoughts?

Amicus

Are you out of your $())&#@#*(!!@$## mind? This article you linked is a Christian web page on The End Of Days in Biblical prophecy.

Bible prophecy reveals that the rise of a "king of the South" will be one key sign leading up to Christ’s return (for more on this topic, see page 22 of this issue). In Bible terminology, "south" here refers to a kingdom south of Jerusalem. Although Iran and Iraq may be part of, or allied with, this kingdom, simple geography demonstrates that the "head" of this kingdom will be to the south of these nations.

But I must admit that...

When a provocation as mild as a newspaper cartoon can bring many of the world’s Muslims together in violent rage, how much more will major political and religious developments stoke the fires of anger between the historically Roman Catholic nations of Europe, and the nations of resurgent Islam? Watch world events in the light of Bible prophecy, and you will see this long-prophesied conflict set the stage for Jesus Christ’s return and the establishment of His kingdom on earth.

...no one but a moron of your stature would suggest this was spurred by an intelligence assessment by US agencies. The Westboro Baptist Church Intelligence Agency perhaps?

Ami, take your pills. Please.

 

[amicus]

One would think, that is if one can think, that recent events and headlines in Europe concerning Islamic violence, not to even mention Bosnia, might be of interest concerning the increasng Muslim population and influence in many Euro nations.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/685ozxcq.asp

Here is another link for the nay-sayers, and please, I am not offering you the Holy Grail, merely a porthole of information, as was the first link, that may enlighten...

Amicus

 

[JackLuis]

One would think, that is if one can think, that recent events and headlines in Europe concerning Islamic violence, not to even mention Bosnia, might be of interest concerning the increasng Muslim population and influence in many Euro nations.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/685ozxcq.asp

Here is another link for the nay-sayers, and please, I am not offering you the Holy Grail, merely a porthole of information, as was the first link, that may enlighten...

Amicus

Interesting article, thanks for sharing.

If Europe embraces Islam as it does the Catholic, Lutheran and others, then by establishing "European" Mullahs and Ass a holealas, then they might prevent an ultimate apocalypse, the government going Islamic?

Food for thought.

But it does not mean that the EU's are breeding terrorists, oh right the French and that lot?

 

[MzDeviancy]

Are you out of your $())&#@#*(!!@$## mind? This article you linked is a Christian web page on The End Of Days in Biblical prophecy.

Bible prophecy reveals that the rise of a "king of the South" will be one key sign leading up to Christ’s return (for more on this topic, see page 22 of this issue). In Bible terminology, "south" here refers to a kingdom south of Jerusalem. Although Iran and Iraq may be part of, or allied with, this kingdom, simple geography demonstrates that the "head" of this kingdom will be to the south of these nations.

But I must admit that...

When a provocation as mild as a newspaper cartoon can bring many of the world’s Muslims together in violent rage, how much more will major political and religious developments stoke the fires of anger between the historically Roman Catholic nations of Europe, and the nations of resurgent Islam? Watch world events in the light of Bible prophecy, and you will see this long-prophesied conflict set the stage for Jesus Christ’s return and the establishment of His kingdom on earth.

...no one but a moron of your stature would suggest this was spurred by an intelligence assessment by US agencies. The Westboro Baptist Church Intelligence Agency perhaps?

Ami, take your pills. Please.

He did say that it was spurred by intelligence reports, not that it actually was one. But yeah, the main point is that it's asinine. The second article he posted is just a repugnant piece of neo-con crap.

Just more fear-mongering from people with no understanding of international politics, and even less of Islamic culture.

 

[amicus]

There have been publicized reports of attempts to install Sharia Law, in cities in both Canada and the United States and, if memory serves, in several Euro Nations.

While I don't pretend to know much about Sharia Law, what appears in public rhetoric is the subordinance of women to the Koran.

It would seem to me to be of concern to least the womenfolk in these areas, but then again, perhaps women secretly desire to be dominated?

heh



Amicus Veritas

 

[MzDeviancy]

There have been publicized reports of attempts to install Sharia Law, in cities in both Canada and the United States and, if memory serves, in several Euro Nations.

While I don't pretend to know much about Sharia Law, what appears in public rhetoric is the subordinance of women to the Koran.

It would seem to me to be of concern to least the womenfolk in these areas, but then again, perhaps women secretly desire to be dominated?

heh



Amicus Veritas

The attempt at "installing Sharia Law" in Canada that you're referring to was a proposed Sharia Court in line with other religious courts that had already been established. The religious courts were only mandated to handle civil, not criminal, cases, and the decision of whether or not to take a case to the Sharia court would have rested solely with the participants.

In regards to the subordination of women in Islam: some will deny that women are depicted as subordinate in the Qur'an; I won't. However, women are pretty much subordinate in every religion and in every culture. Gender equality is still in its infancy in the countries where it actually exists - only about a century ago in Canada did we get the right to vote, and we had to prove in court that we were 'people' in order to get that.

If you want to pretend you suddenly give a crap about feminism, I suggest you read Susan Moller Okin. She states a case against multiculturalism in a much more logic-based (and much less redneck-based) manner than you seem to be capable of.

 

[amicus]

I would refer you to a rather lengthy Thread of mine, "The Feminine Mistake", it spurred a spirited debate for a while.

I don't give a hoot about feminism. By their voting record in the US since emancipation, they have, in general, shown they are not qualified to participate in the political arena.

By their sexual egalitarianism in the 1950's they have demonstrated that equality is an abject failure as they have destroyed the family, fueled the ranks of the sexually unidentified and created a drug culture to dampen their hysteria.

In a society so heavily taxed that it requires two incomes (both taxed) to support a family. That is to pay for maternity leave, daycare, feminine medical problems which outnumber masculine ills by about ten to one and bankrupt an entire society.

I don't necessarily want them 'barefoot, uneducated and pregnant', nor do I support the Muslim way of total domination (see the Sally Field film), but I want them out of political office, out of the fire and police deparments and out of the military.

I know...I am a heritic...sue me....but before you do, look around you, take note of the impossible schedule most modern women have in an attempt to, 'have it all', the work, the job, the family and notice the fifty percent divorce rate, the multiple marriages that fail, the drug addicted children, pregnant children at age 14, the total destruction of family values and know, yes know, beyond a shadow of a doubt that your feminist revolution is the cause of it all.

Happy now?



Amicus Veritas

 

[PoppingTom]

Be sure to tell the people in Madrid and London about the absence of attacks by Islamic terrorists. They seen to be under the impression that such things happened in their transportatiion systems.

That's right. I think 9/11 had more impact on our life than those attacks. Spain's premier was losing the next election, cause he was trying to blame Basquian terror organization ETA for the attack in Madrid.

 

[PoppingTom]

I don't give a hoot about feminism. By their voting record in the US since emancipation, they have, in general, shown they are not qualified to participate in the political arena.

....

I don't necessarily want them 'barefoot, uneducated and pregnant', nor do I support the Muslim way of total domination (see the Sally Field film), but I want them out of political office, out of the fire and police deparments and out of the military.

I know...I am a heritic...sue me....but before you do, look around you, take note of the impossible schedule most modern women have in an attempt to, 'have it all', the work, the job, the family and notice the fifty percent divorce rate, the multiple marriages that fail, the drug addicted children, pregnant children at age 14, the total destruction of family values and know, yes know, beyond a shadow of a doubt that your feminist revolution is the cause of it all.

Well, Ami, as a citizen of a state who got a woman as conservative Kanzler in the second premiership, I can't agree with you. In fact, she's less polarizing than any of the Kanzlers before.

And in East Germany at time of socialism, we hadn't any feminism revolution at all. But one prerogative for women in socialism was that they could live absolute independent from men, so a lot of women decided not to have any marriage at all in their life. We hadn't drug addicted and pregnant children at age 14, but maybe because of a careful watching society.

So blame, if you want, liberalism for the loss of family values. Blame the fact that women explore their freedom of choice, of speaking, of whatever, blame the fact that they know better now, what they really want, for the loss of family values. I can't tell, from my own religious view, whether this is good or bad.

 

[amicus]

Interesting commentary PoppingTom...I would accept that there are exceptions to the rule in the form of Merkle(sp?) and the Iron Lady, Thatcher, and Golda Meier, but for the most part....

I toured part of Europe in 1970 on a small motorcycle I bought in London, had never driven one before and the traffic circles almost did me in (my fair lady). I visited German, with intentions to view Weimar, the birthplace of Goethe, but a blue eyed Russian soldier with a gun, changed my mind, along with a kind Dutchman who advised not going into East Germany if I valued my life.

I threw a chain and learned of a feather bed at a Guesthouse for a week and discovered that West Germany was similar to America in the 1930's, I got laid, but it wasn't important, I think I was a trophy conquest...no matter...

I have known more women in my rather long life than I care to admit and although I do not advocate second class citizenship for them, I can assure you they are out of place in the real world where reality rules.

I do worship the silly creatures and they do have the uncanny ability to dissuade one from rational pursuits for a short, but appreciated time.

Did I put an extra 's' in disuade? No matter...

I do upset and dismay the hard line liberals on this forum as I have an appreciation for the finer things of life while still maintaining a foot in the real world. And their righteous superiority concerning social matters is such a joke as they pretend concern for the downtrodden and yet strive to relieve them of what few freedoms they do possess.

I was the crass, vulgar, Ugly American even before I understood why is was proper to be that way and to this day I do not apologize for it.

America has the separation of two oceans, which, although it may not make sense to anyone, offered the opportunity to truly divorce itself from the old world of Europe and Asia.

It could have gone any which way, but it went the way it did, and for a while was a beacon for the entire world as a place where human individuality could be expressed.

"Bring me your tired and huddled masses..." and they did, by the millions, leave the old world for the new.

We are what we are and it changes almost daily.

For what that is worth...

Amicus