The Dumbing Down of our Children...

[Zeb_Carter]

From Charles J. Sykes, author of the book Dumbing Down Our Kids: Why American Children Feel Good About Themselves But Can't Read, Write, Or Add:

Rule No. 1: Life is not fair. Get used to it. The average teen-ager uses the phrase "It's not fair" 8.6 times a day. You got it from your parents, who said it so often you decided they must be the most idealistic generation ever. When they started hearing it from their own kids, they realized Rule No. 1.

Rule No. 2: The real world won't care as much about your self-esteem as much as your school does. It'll expect you to accomplish something before you feel good about yourself. This may come as a shock. Usually, when inflated self-esteem meets reality, kids complain that it's not fair. (See Rule No. 1)

Rule No. 3: Sorry, you won't make $40,000 a year right out of high school. And you won't be a vice president or have a car phone either. You may even have to wear a uniform that doesn't have a Gap label.

Rule No. 4: If you think your teacher is tough, wait 'til you get a boss. He doesn't have tenure, so he tends to be a bit edgier. When you screw up, he's not going to ask you how you feel about it.

Rule No. 5: Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grandparents had a different word for burger flipping. They called it opportunity. They weren't embarrassed making minimum wage either. They would have been embarrassed to sit around talking about Kurt Cobain all weekend.

Rule No. 6: It's not your parents' fault. If you screw up, you are responsible. This is the flip side of "It's my life," and "You're not the boss of me," and other eloquent proclamations of your generation. When you turn 18, it's on your dime. Don't whine about it, or you'll sound like a baby boomer.

Rule No. 7: Before you were born your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way paying your bills, cleaning up your room and listening to you tell them how idealistic you are. And by the way, before you save the rain forest from the blood-sucking parasites of your parents' generation, try delousing the closet in your bedroom.

Rule No. 8: Your school may have done away with winners and losers. Life hasn't. In some schools, they'll give you as many times as you want to get the right answer. Failing grades have been abolished and class valedictorians scrapped, lest anyone's feelings be hurt. Effort is as important as results. This, of course, bears not the slightest resemblance to anything in real life. (See Rule No. 1, Rule No. 2 and Rule No. 4.)

Rule No. 9: Life is not divided into semesters, and you don't get summers off. Not even Easter break. They expect you to show up every day. For eight hours. And you don't get a new life every 10 weeks. It just goes on and on. While we're at it, very few jobs are interested in fostering your self-expression or helping you find yourself. Fewer still lead to self-realization. (See Rule No. 1 and Rule No. 2.)

Rule No. 10: Television is not real life. Your life is not a sitcom. Your problems will not all be solved in 30 minutes, minus time for commercials. In real life, people actually have to leave the coffee shop to go to jobs. Your friends will not be as perky or pliable as Jennifer Aniston.

Rule No. 11: Be nice to nerds. You may end up working for them. We all could.

Rule No. 12: Smoking does not make you look cool. It makes you look moronic. Next time you're out cruising, watch an 11-year-old with a butt in his mouth. That's what you look like to anyone over 20. Ditto for "expressing yourself" with purple hair and/or pierced body parts.

Rule No. 13: You are not immortal. (See Rule No. 12.) If you are under the impression that living fast, dying young and leaving a beautiful corpse is romantic, you obviously haven't seen one of your peers at room temperature lately.

Rule No. 14: Enjoy this while you can. Sure parents are a pain, school's a bother, and life is depressing. But someday you'll realize how wonderful it was to be a kid. Maybe you should start now. You're welcome.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

So what do you thing a teacher in the US would be charged with?

The little creep deserved what he got, no doubt, but would the teacher even have the balls to do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlOAUZXC9D0&feature=player_embedded

 

[stephen55]

Mine did....

So what do you thing a teacher in the US would be charged with?

The little creep deserved what he got, no doubt, but would the teacher even have the balls to do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlOAUZXC9D0&feature=player_embedded

In the fifth grade my teacher was Mr. ______, (name deleted to protect his estate from a present day lawsuit).

When someone was acting up in class he would carry on, then turn and throw a piece of chalk with admirable accuracy. Back in those days, it was considered acceptable teacher behavior.

 

[Guest]

So what do you thing a teacher in the US would be charged with?

The little creep deserved what he got, no doubt, but would the teacher even have the balls to do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlOAUZXC9D0&feature=player_embedded

A teacher in the U.S. would be charged with assault. But yes, the kid deserved it.

We seem to be taking away standards and punishments, believing that we are making children better. when instead we are showing them (and TV is reinforcing) a lack of consequences for their actions and giving them a fierce independence, but no tools to maintain that independence.

I see it frequently in the Army. 18 and 19 year old kids come in fresh out of the house and they talk back and have attitudes. The Drill Sergeants in Basic training are hampered by rules now that prevent them from enforcing discipline. Apparently (according to some of my newest soldiers) they didn't even have to do push-ups in Basic unless it was for morning exercise. I think I am witnessing the pussification (thank you Mr. Carlin) of the U.S. Army. I have spent the last 10 years trying to make disciplined soldiers, and fighting against the tide of poor parenting and MTV.

I saw a child about three days ago that was kicking and screaming on the floor. Mommy looked at her and said, "If you don't knock it off, I am going to leave you." This happened three times until apparently the kid herself had enough of it, looked at her and said "nuh-uh," then got up off the floor. The kid then tried to walk out on mom. I was close to the door, so I held it shut so the kid wouldn't leave. Mom didn't even seem fazed by this.

This is how we teach our kids, and how many of our parents taught us. The teacher didn't hurt the student and probably taught the kid a lesson that mom and dad should have. Namely, keep your hands to yourself and act like a decent human being in class. It was an empty planter box. In the states, however, the teacher would have been fired, and someone would have tried suing or charging him with assault.

 

[oggbashan]

So what do you thing a teacher in the US would be charged with?

The little creep deserved what he got, no doubt, but would the teacher even have the balls to do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlOAUZXC9D0&feature=player_embedded

That would have been a standard teacher response when I was at school - except that it would have happened sooner.

Og

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Locally we have a middle school where 30 boys intimidate peers, teachers, administration, and the cops assigned to the school. Everyone is afraid to deal with the boys. After the last riot at the school, and the problem was dumped onto the school board, board members screamed insults at each other.

So the kids know the score, and the whole deal is a hoot to them.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

So what do you thing a teacher in the US would be charged with?

The little creep deserved what he got, no doubt, but would the teacher even have the balls to do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlOAUZXC9D0&feature=player_embedded

He got the kid with the camera too

 

[Guest]

He got the kid with the camera too

Kid's right in line to be a combat cameraman at that rate.

Anyone know where that video was taken? I don't speak Spanish, but it could have easily been IN the U.S.

I don't want to make the assumption that because he was speaking Spanish that the video is form another country.

 

[stephen55]

And where, exactly, is this happening....?

Locally we have a middle school where 30 boys intimidate peers, teachers, administration, and the cops assigned to the school. Everyone is afraid to deal with the boys. After the last riot at the school, and the problem was dumped onto the school board, board members screamed insults at each other.

So the kids know the score, and the whole deal is a hoot to them.

So where you live, middle school aged kids intimidate the cops. I don't think you live where you think you live.

The last time I saw a middle school aged kid intimidate an RCMP officer was....this might take a while...come to think of it... never. I've seen a few being disrespectful. I've never seen the same kid do it twice.

I'm going to call bullshit on your story. Even in your world, cops aren't like that.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Don't know where it was shot but a comment on YouTube was left by someone...

Wasn't the first time he's done it. Teacher at the end says "I already told you in the last class..."

Yes they were speaking spanish, but there are so many countries that do, take your pick.

 

[Guest]

Don't know where it was shot but a comment on YouTube was left by someone...



Yes they were speaking spanish, but there are so many countries that do, take your pick.

I like to think that it was near my house and teachers in the States are taking back their classes.

Here's to hoping.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I like to think that it was near my house and teachers in the States are taking back their classes.

Here's to hoping.

Never happen in todays society where the parents turn their kids over to school system so they have baby sitters during the day. A lot, not all, of parents don't teach their kids anything...that's the schools responsibility. They don't even teach them manners let alone to respect their elders.

We had a few class clowns in my school when I was growing up but, they usually only acted out once. Being sent to the Dean's office to wait for your parent(s) to come pick you up, not a nice thing to have happen back then. Then when you got home, well let's just say sitting down was a little rough for the rest of the day.

And you know what, I didn't turn out to be a murder, a rapist, a criminal of any kind. I did grow up, I did learn that I was in school to learn and I learned to respect the people who were trying to teach me.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

So where you live, middle school aged kids intimidate the cops. I don't think you live where you think you live.

The last time I saw a middle school aged kid intimidate an RCMP officer was....this might take a while...come to think of it... never. I've seen a few being disrespectful. I've never seen the same kid do it twice.

I'm going to call bullshit on your story. Even in your world, cops aren't like that.

I'm afraid they do, at least everyone involved says these kids intimidate the cops.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1076646.ece

 

[Guest]

...And you know what, I didn't turn out to be a murder, a rapist, a criminal of any kind. I did grow up, I did learn that I was in school to learn and I learned to respect the people who were trying to teach me.

Exactly. Well said.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I am amazed at the number of comments about how things are in schools these days by people who aren't there. I am. I don't see any of this crap--especially in my class.

 

[3113]

Ah, that old and tired--and incorrect--excuse for why U.S. kids are stupid

I am amazed at the number of comments about how things are in schools these days by people who aren't there. I am. I don't see any of this crap--especially in my class.

Interesting, isn't it? All anyone seems to complain about is the "self-esteem" shit as "dumbing down" kids--which is really out of date.

Truth is, the thing that's dumbing down kids these days isn't "self-esteem" shit or even lack of discipline. It's standardized testing--and evidently changing text books to make us all feel good about America or include religious beliefs rather than science, because we shouldn't offend anyone with facts.

But, gosh-darn, why don't I ever seen Zeb posting that stuff instead of this stuff? I guess he doesn't like those facts--which would condemn conservatives who put such tests and texts into place--rather than this propaganda that condemns all them softy liberals.

Kids got stupider with "No Child Left Behind" standardized test policies--that did and still do tie the teacher's hands on what and how they can teach much more than this self-esteem malarky. Because how the kids do on tests decides of the teacher gets to keep their job. Self-esteem stuff doesn't. So while we'll all agree that the self-esteem crap is crap, it's also being used as a scapegoat--as a way of keeping us from seeing what is really undermining the American Educational system.Get a new mantra, Zeb. This one is so old it's got cobwebs--and it's not the whole truth by any stretch.

Those with this one-size-fits-all fix of tests, texts, and undermining the public school system because they want everything privatized (so they can make money), that's what's making kids stupider.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Interesting, isn't it? All anyone seems to complain about is the "self-esteem" shit as "dumbing down" kids--which is really out of date.

Truth is, the thing that's dumbing down kids these days isn't "self-esteem" shit or even lack of discipline. It's standardized testing--and evidently changing text books to make us all feel good about America or include religious beliefs rather than science, because we shouldn't offend anyone with facts.

But, gosh-darn, why don't I ever seen Zeb posting that stuff instead of this stuff? I guess he doesn't like those facts--which would condemn conservatives who put such tests and texts into place--rather than this propaganda that condemns all them softy liberals.

Kids got stupider with "No Child Left Behind" standardized test policies--that did and still do tie the teacher's hands on what and how they can teach much more than this self-esteem malarky. Because how the kids do on tests decides of the teacher gets to keep their job. Self-esteem stuff doesn't. So while we'll all agree that the self-esteem crap is crap, it's also being used as a scapegoat--as a way of keeping us from seeing what is really undermining the American Educational system.Get a new mantra, Zeb. This one is so old it's got cobwebs--and it's not the whole truth by any stretch.

Those with this one-size-fits-all fix of tests, texts, and undermining the public school system because they want everything privatized (so they can make money), that's what's making kids stupider.

You know something I agree with you about the text books...oh and how about that stupid program "No one left behind..." what a load of crap. If a kid knows he doesn't have to learn because he/she will be promoted up the chain anyway why do it. And that only makes those that want to learn unable too. because then the teachers, the bad one (those who should never have been hired to teach), don't have too. And do they get canned? Are there merit reviews for teachers? Are there performance reviews for teachers? Can a tenured teacher even be fired?

Can you flunk a child anymore? Will a child be held back a grade for poor performance? Or will the just flow along in the system unable to function in life when they are done?

And school boards, who are in charge of selecting text books to use in our school system, need to be held responsible for all the fuck ups. Whether it's a crummy teacher who needs to be canned or a parent who needs to be held accountable for their child's behavior in class.

I'm all for straightening out the school system. If your child goes to a private school there is none of this "No child left behind." The children learn. They learn that if they don't learn the are held back or kicked out.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

You know something I agree with you about the text books...oh and how about that stupid program "No one left behind..." what a load of crap. If a kid knows he doesn't have to learn because he/she will be promoted up the chain anyway why do it. And that only makes those that want to learn unable too. because then the teachers, the bad one (those who should never have been hired to teach), don't have too. And do they get canned? Are there merit reviews for teachers? Are there performance reviews for teachers? Can a tenured teacher even be fired?

Can you flunk a child anymore? Will a child be held back a grade for poor performance? Or will the just flow along in the system unable to function in life when they are done?

And school boards, who are in charge of selecting text books to use in our school system, need to be held responsible for all the fuck ups. Whether it's a crummy teacher who needs to be canned or a parent who needs to be held accountable for their child's behavior in class.

I'm all for straightening out the school system. If your child goes to a private school there is none of this "No child left behind." The children learn. They learn that if they don't learn the are held back or kicked out.

Can a child be held back? Yup. I have. Does it work? Rarely. In my district we 'get' to choose among a state approved list of texts and then the teachers vote on which one to get. That sucks. Why? If the sixth grade is put in with the elementary grades, the primary teachers choose the textbook series because their are 50% more of them due to smaller class size. If the sixth grade is put with the middle schools, the seventh and eight grade teachers choose because they outnumber us, too. So even though the best of all worlds would be to have each grade level choose the texts most appropriate to the curriculum, forget it. I've come up with so many reasons for retiring in June you wouldn't believe!

 

[Dragonlipz]

The dumbing down of our children started under the Reagan Administration by the systematic underfunding of our schools (1981) and subsequent reductions in federal funding. His regime encourgaged the so-called Christian right activists to attack the teaching of history, science, and social issues in the public schools...when he got elected this nation had just endured a historical growing pain of an educated electorate....not a great resource for the rich and powerful....they'd rather have you waving racist signs at the 'teabagger protests' than making educated decisions about your future....welcome to the monkey house......and thank your 'Great White Fatha - Ronnie Rayguns - for the demise of the middle class.....
The Repubtards hope that no one remembers their concerted efforts to bring this great nation to its knees.....
Every republican president since roosevelt has increased the national debt....don't take my word for it, investigate and find out for yourself....think for yourself.....it might hurt at first, but so much more satisfying when it's accomplished......

 

[Huckleman2000]

[...]And you know what, I didn't turn out to be a murder, a rapist, a criminal of any kind. I did grow up, I did learn that I was in school to learn and I learned to respect the people who were trying to teach me.

So what has happened to you since to make you such an insufferable know-it-all who clings to right-wing dogma about taxation, despite overwhelming evidence that your beliefs, when implemented, fail to have the predicted outcomes?

 

[xssve]

Ha! I love rule 14, after basically telling them to not to have any dreams in the previous 13 rules, they're now supposed to enjoy whatever's left?

I think the "dumbing down" part starts with rule #1: "blame everything on somebody else" - liberals, typically.

 

[SeaCat]

Hey it's not just the kids, it's their parents in many cases as well. And in many cases I don't think it's being dumbed down, it's being raised with the attitude that somehow society owes them something. For the proof of this all you have to do is listen to people talking for a short while.

Part of this is because the parents are no longer allowed to use effective punishments on their kids. Doing so can result in being investigated by Child Services. (A good example is making a kid eat something they dislike. When I was growing up you ate what was served even if you didn't like it. You did this because it was known that if you didn't eat what was served you didn't eat. A parent doing this now can be investigated for not feeding their child.) (Another good example is the one given above with the child throwing a temper tantrum in the store. If me or my sibs had done that we would have received a rather sharp swat to the keester then been dragged out of the store screaming. If a parent were to do that now they would most likely be met at the store exit by the police.)

As for the violence shown by many of the young in our society here in America, that is unfortunately our fault as well. Look at how we glorify violence in our society. Hell we don't just glorify it we make it seem normal and acceptable. As an example just watch TV for an evening. (Popular TV and not PBS or one of the so called educational channels.) Count how many fights and shootings you see. While doing so watch how these things are treated in the shows. Voilence is not viewed as a last resort, rather it is shown as an acceptable way to handle what is really something simple to deal with. (I won't even get into the gun violence because that is an entire different subject.) None of the TV Shows even hint at the repercusions of using violence to solve your problems.

Cat

 

[Weird Harold]

The dumbing down of our children started under the Reagan Administration ...

I think you misspelled JFK, or maybe it was LBJ, but it might have been Eisenhower or Truman.

It wasn't the politicians that started the decline, though; it was the invention of Child Psychology that produced a generation of politicians that think NCLB is a reasonable response to the failings of the educational system.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DRAGON-LISP

A while back I did the math for education funding to determine how badly the GOP fucks the kiddies.

The Florida Dept of Education has no exact number, so I divided the amount of money the state spends on K-12 education, by the total enrollment; the result was about $250,000 per classroom of students.

Then I computed what it costs to educate them ( teacher pay & benefits, books, buses, electricity, janitors, etc etc etc); and the costs totaled about $125,000 per classroom.

The other half of the money pays for administrators and parasites and junkets. An old friend of mine is one of the many assistant superintendants for school maintenance in this county. He rides around confirming problems the schools report to the school board office; he has his own department for this. If a water fountain breaks somewhere, someone takes a look at it and writes a report he reviews and passes along to his boss. Then it comes back and he schedules a plumber to fix the fountain or has someone drive to the school and dump the problem in the janitors lap.

 

[oggbashan]

In the UK part of the problem in classrooms, apart from major political interference with what is taught, is children with "issues".

Children who were previously categorised as retarded, attention-seeking, disturbed, unsocialised, challenging etc. are now taught in normal classes because it has been established by educational psychologists that it is better for them to be mixed with normal children.

However it isn't better for the normal children, because those who are 'different' require more of the teacher's attention and time, can be disruptive and distracting, and dilute the work of the class.

More and more children are been classified with behavioural disorders and therefore their bad or distracting behaviour is accepted 'because it isn't their fault, it's their condition'. In my parents' time at school in the 1910s and 1920s, the teachers and the classroom peers would have ensured that however different a particular pupil's ability and mental health was, that pupil would be expected to conform to acceptable standards of behaviour and achievement. If not? They would have been transferred to the very rare special schools or expelled. It was the social norm to value education. Expulsion was a real punishment.

In my time at school in the 1940s and 50s, special schools were more available and did very good work at a cost much higher than a normal school. Anyone persistently misbehaving or causing trouble at any of my schools would have been disciplined, including the rare use of the cane, and would be in no doubt that their behaviour wasn't appreciated by the fellow pupils.

In my parents' time and mine, those who were slower or finding a particular subject hard, would have been helped by teachers and fellow pupils. I remember one of my friends who was absolutely hopeless at mathematics. He needed help constantly. His homework was done with detailed help by a cabal of friends who explained everything several times until he grasped the concept. So much so that he gained a bare pass at his O level. However he was brilliant at Latin and Greek. He would tutor his friends in those subjects in exchange for the help he received for mathematics.

The different between then and now is that most pupils tried to learn. A minority of pupils now have no inclination or desire to learn, to pass examinations, to succeed. They admit defeat 'because I'm (insert condition here) or I have (insert condition here) and it's not my fault'. They hinder the rest of the class. Successive government initiatives haven't produced any solution to the problem of pupils who see school as an irritation in their lives before becoming unemployed and unemployable parasites.

Og