Benign Exercise or Evil Deed?

[Palba_Noruda]

So, I received a kudo on a poem but I have to come clean that the pleasing phrase was a blatant rip off. This all happened in the suddenly passion thread:

so swim back
tide pool girl
so swim back
don your pearls

... are you
the girl or the blanket the
boy or the feast are you the
girl with the thighs or the
tide pool pearls do
you ever tell your friends you're
different do you ever freak

Okay. I like to use found words. I like to go to the suddenly thread and start writing based on what somebody else wrote and let that spark something... Part of the reason I like found words so much is that I believe when you let somebody else choose a few of the words or the scenario or even the starting sentence or the style, you will be able to divert your own energy away from that task to some other part of yourself and that will result in something that wouldn't have happened had you just started with the blank screen. And it's a little bit like connecting with that person I suppose...

It's not altogether uncommon... happens all the time in poetry and prose, homages, references... sometimes they're specifically cited, sometimes they're not...

An enjoyable occurrence on this forum is when a couple people throw poems back and forth on a thread with the same thread or shared images or whatever...

Stephen King ripped off T.S. Eliot without citation. T.S. Eliot ripped from the pulp writers of his day...

In classical training for fine artists, going to the museum and sketching is a common exercise...

Musicians play along with albums and learn all kinds of shit from copying other musicians...

Is there a difference? Should writers be expected to buck the trend and ONLY write in front of a blank page, never using reference material?

Does it make a difference if I never "publish" the piece?

Is writing posted to the suddenly passion thread considered "published?"

Does the artist's intention in the writing of the piece make a difference?

Also, language acquisition and all kinds of non-verbal language is learned through mimicking. Does that matter?

Did I step over the line with my liberal borrowing from miss_trust?

Have you ever copied or borrowed words?

 

[butters]

cool idea for a thread - and an important point of discussion.

for now, just a quickie: I don't think you 'ripped off' the other writer here, more an extrapolation, a development, and one that improves on the original simply because it IS an original phrase. Hers was not.

I'll come back to this, but yes I have used phrases - if verbatim, then I'll note beneath the piece. Intention to deceive is another matter, but for most of us it's a nod to something we admire, not a plagiarism. (re my poem the shape of the thing where I use Byron's 'sad, voluptuous dreams', the best line in the piece )

 

[bflagsst]

You copied what exactly?

"are you the
girl with the thighs or the
tide pool pearls"

I see, it's kind of a rewrite? But this was the only part of your poem I found interesting, even before Chip quoted it. The 'You' lines are hard to take. That middle passage was the best part of the poem, but the poem isn't the four or five lines. However, those four or five lines based in Miss Trust were probably the only interesting part of the poem.

I use popular lines sometimes, usually quote them: my line/"shakespeare's line"/my line

I'll sometimes steal other people's ideas and images, but they usually end up sounding different because I use them to express something else. In poetry strait up plagiarism for a few lines or whole passages has always been acceptable, writing in the style of someone else for a poem or two was the thing to do. It's really just a matter of taking someone's idea and making it better or at least your own in some way. So you're not evil, but you did fail to honor the words of Miss Trust because your poem was pretty sloppy.

 

[WickedEve]

It's easy enough to PM or email the poet and tell them you want to use a few of their words, or mention in your post that your poem was inspired by another poem. If you add a link to the poem, I bet most poets will love the attention.

 

[arielsgoddess]

This is what I love to do...

Pabla, if you look at Poetry Orgy or Last Line First, that is exactly what they are about. Creative people are made better by challenges and inspirations. Not only will you find yourself writing better, more power-packed lines when you and another writer are bouncing off of each other's energy, but it truly opens the mind when you both write perspectives on the same theme (like Ponnets or Vishnuwerehere or Serathi's lion/tiger poems) or take one piece of what the other has written and turn it into something new.

I list only examples here of what I have participated in, but there are other threads around here that are alot older that offer the same type of muse. Anytime anyone wants to start a new one, PM me and I am definitely game. I haven't done so in a while bc I've been gone, but I'm working on a comeback.

It's really cool to hear so many new voices in this place. That is an inspiration to all of us, too.

 

[Palba_Noruda]

cool idea for a thread - and an important point of discussion.

for now, just a quickie: I don't think you 'ripped off' the other writer here, more an extrapolation, a development, and one that improves on the original simply because it IS an original phrase. Hers was not.

I'll come back to this, but yes I have used phrases - if verbatim, then I'll note beneath the piece. Intention to deceive is another matter, but for most of us it's a nod to something we admire, not a plagiarism. (re my poem the shape of the thing where I use Byron's 'sad, voluptuous dreams', the best line in the piece )

Thanks chipbutty... it was a nod to someone I admire, because I do really like miss_trust's stuff... I really didn't want to deceive...

You copied what exactly?

"are you the
girl with the thighs or the
tide pool pearls"

I see, it's kind of a rewrite? But this was the only part of your poem I found interesting, even before Chip quoted it. The 'You' lines are hard to take. That middle passage was the best part of the poem, but the poem isn't the four or five lines. However, those four or five lines based in Miss Trust were probably the only interesting part of the poem.

I use popular lines sometimes, usually quote them: my line/"shakespeare's line"/my line

I'll sometimes steal other people's ideas and images, but they usually end up sounding different because I use them to express something else. In poetry strait up plagiarism for a few lines or whole passages has always been acceptable, writing in the style of someone else for a poem or two was the thing to do. It's really just a matter of taking someone's idea and making it better or at least your own in some way. So you're not evil, but you did fail to honor the words of Miss Trust because your poem was pretty sloppy.

tide pool pearl was the thing I stole specifically... It's funny, because when I hear you say I'll sometimes steal other people's ideas and images it sounds so distasteful, but that's exactly what I've done... I think "steal" is the offending word... thanks for your feedback

It's easy enough to PM or email the poet and tell them you want to use a few of their words, or mention in your post that your poem was inspired by another poem. If you add a link to the poem, I bet most poets will love the attention.

That's a good idea, WickedEve...

Pabla, if you look at Poetry Orgy or Last Line First, that is exactly what they are about. Creative people are made better by challenges and inspirations. Not only will you find yourself writing better, more power-packed lines when you and another writer are bouncing off of each other's energy, but it truly opens the mind when you both write perspectives on the same theme (like Ponnets or Vishnuwerehere or Serathi's lion/tiger poems) or take one piece of what the other has written and turn it into something new.

I list only examples here of what I have participated in, but there are other threads around here that are alot older that offer the same type of muse. Anytime anyone wants to start a new one, PM me and I am definitely game. I haven't done so in a while bc I've been gone, but I'm working on a comeback.

It's really cool to hear so many new voices in this place. That is an inspiration to all of us, too.

Thanks for the encouragement... I would like to do more of that sort of thing... I like the suddenly thread and writing live because the poems written there are not supposed to be "finished" poems... I'm pretty much incapable of "finishing" a poem so if we were to start a new thread, like a poetry exchange thread or something, we could make part of the introduction to the thread say that incomplete drafts are allowed...