Sub or Slave Traits

[gigi1968]

I consider myself a sub. After living in vanilla world for so long and had bad nilla relationship, not completely sure if I can give myself up as a slave. But is that possible? I trust my sir with my whole being and understand that we will never be 24/7, but can I still be a slave? Will it ever be possible for me to let go of the control I finally feel I have gathered? Out of all that I have met, he is the first person I have even considered that possibility with.

 

[00Syd]

*looks at watch*

Why, your right, it is just about time for this conversation.

 

[CutieMouse]

I consider myself a sub. After living in vanilla world for so long and had bad nilla relationship, not completely sure if I can give myself up as a slave. But is that possible? I trust my sir with my whole being and understand that we will never be 24/7, but can I still be a slave? Will it ever be possible for me to let go of the control I finally feel I have gathered? Out of all that I have met, he is the first person I have even considered that possibility with.

Question #1 - why does the definition/label matter? I mean, what if you were happy, did things in a manner that worked for both of you, trusted him with your whole being, etc and just lived Life? No semantics, no worries. Just Gigi and Lover/Partner-type-person who happened structure things around a power exchange? Would you be any more or less submissive/slave? Would he be any more/less in control?

Question # 2 - who says you have to give up the control you've gathered/found? Bandit IDs as slave to Master Gil, yet (for example) she still controls all her own money, makes medical decisions if he's unable to, etc... it's called being a whole, happy, useful, resourceful person - who happens to be a slave.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Question #1 - why does the definition/label matter? I mean, what if you were happy, did things in a manner that worked for both of you, trusted him with your whole being, etc and just lived Life? No semantics, no worries. Just Gigi and Lover/Partner-type-person who happened structure things around a power exchange? Would you be any more or less submissive/slave? Would he be any more/less in control?

Question # 2 - who says you have to give up the control you've gathered/found? Bandit IDs as slave to Master Gil, yet (for example) she still controls all her own money, makes medical decisions if he's unable to, etc... it's called being a whole, happy, useful, resourceful person - who happens to be a slave.

What she said - every bit of it.

 

[graceanne]

*looks at watch*

Why, your right, it is just about time for this conversation.

*spew*

DARN YOU 00syd!

Question # 2 - who says you have to give up the control you've gathered/found? Bandit IDs as slave to Master Gil, yet (for example) she still controls all her own money, makes medical decisions if he's unable to, etc... it's called being a whole, happy, useful, resourceful person - who happens to be a slave.

Pretty much. It's just a matter of finding someone who's compatible with what you want/need. Master Gil doesn't WANT control of her money, etc.

 

[subwannabe]

O.K. I'm slightly confused here. I'm not really sure what you meant by " (I) understand that we will never be 24/7". If that means that you are not going to be a couple as in marriage or significant other and that he may have other "slaves" then I would sit down for a few minutes and think about what is most important in your life. If you long to be with Mr. Right and want a completely fulfilling relationship then I wouldn't give up on that just because you found an extremely sexually compatible person to be with and you had a bad previous relationship. You can find someone to be a sub with and have a marriage type relationhip until death do us part if you give it a chance. Don't settle for anything less than what you really want. Most people long to have a one on one commited relatiohship with someone, whether it be vanilla or bdsm. Follow your heart and your brains and don't settle for half a relationship unless that is really what you want. My apolgies if I misunderstood what you meant in that phrase.

 

[00Syd]

*spew*

DARN YOU 00syd!

Mwah ha ha ha haaa

 

[gigi1968]

O.K. I'm slightly confused here. I'm not really sure what you meant by " (I) understand that we will never be 24/7". If that means that you are not going to be a couple as in marriage or significant other and that he may have other "slaves" then I would sit down for a few minutes and think about what is most important in your life. If you long to be with Mr. Right and want a completely fulfilling relationship then I wouldn't give up on that just because you found an extremely sexually compatible person to be with and you had a bad previous relationship. You can find someone to be a sub with and have a marriage type relationhip until death do us part if you give it a chance. Don't settle for anything less than what you really want. Most people long to have a one on one commited relatiohship with someone, whether it be vanilla or bdsm. Follow your heart and your brains and don't settle for half a relationship unless that is really what you want. My apolgies if I misunderstood what you meant in that phrase.

Well I say that because first of all I do not see a purpose in marriage anymore. If I want to be with someone, I am with them wholeheartedly. Secondly he is already married, his wife knows about me and we have talked on numerous occasions. Also, sex has been the last thing to enter our relationship.

My main question is what really qualifies one as a slave versus just a sub?

 

[Curious_Red]

As a sub, I believe you can say "no". That's one thing.

But, one person's definition of a slave is different than anothers, and so on.

You are what makes you happy.

 

[graceanne]

My main question is what really qualifies one as a slave versus just a sub?

There is not 'becoming a slave' board that has a set number of rules about what you have to do/be to become a slave. This is something that can, and has been discussed to death and you will not find a consensus to help guide you. You need to decide, for yourself, what you have to do to qualify as a slave.

ETA: What you can do, if you really want a list, is find someone you want to emulate and ask them to be your mentor or whatever.

 

[StrayKat]

There is not 'becoming a slave' board that has a set number of rules about what you have to do/be to become a slave.

There is not?
I could have sworn quite a number of guys came from such board to offer guidance to poor confused wannabe slave girls here on Lit.

 

[graceanne]

There is not?
I could have sworn quite a number of guys came from such board to offer guidance to poor confused wannabe slave girls here on Lit.

Yeah . . . they were just trying to get in your pants.

 

[StrayKat]

Yeah . . . they were just trying to get in your pants.

Sadly no, when they found out I am neither confused neither interested in becoming a slave, they all just ran away for some reason

 

[CutieMouse]

My main question is what really qualifies one as a slave versus just a sub?

slave (slv) n.
1. One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
2. One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence
3. One who works extremely hard.
4. A machine or component controlled by another machine or component.

submissive [səbˈmɪsɪv] adj
of, tending towards, or indicating submission, humility, or servility

The most commonly listed difference I've always seen mentioned is that slaves abdicate the right to say "no"; however, there are those who remove "no" from their relationship vocabulary, yet still identify as submissive rather than slave.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Slavery doesn't have to occur in a 24/7 cohabiting relationship IMO. If slavery is something you want to do and something your partner is interested in exploring with you, the only rules are the ones you set between you.

Typically, those here who identify as slaves give up the right to refuse their owner anything reasonable and lawful. They do not use safewords, allowing the dominant partner to assess their limits for him/herself. They are service oriented, anticipate needs and desires where appropriate and enjoy making life for their partner as contented as possible. If any or all of these things are what you see as 'slave' traits rather than 'sub' traits, it's perfectly possible to apply them to your dynamic and identify as a slave, for the duration of the time that you spend together. Outside of your face-to-face time, you'll have to set your own boundaries regarding what's appropriate, mutually desired and practical.

So far as letting go of control goes, only you can make that decision based on trust, good communication and what your guy may expect from you if you do cede your limits. Most Masters/Owners are well aware that there are things their partner can't handle, for whatever reason, and have no interest in going there. Giving up control should not mean you're expected to do anything you could not physically tolerate, that would harm you psychologically or that would jeopardise his marriage. It may seem a bit odd to suggest that you should only consider slavery to someone who won't ask you to do things you really don't want to but that's all part of compatibility and trust.

I think that the fact this man already has primary partner means that something like this would need to be carefully negotiated so that there are no disappointments or misunderstandings. It's all perfectly possible however, if it's what you both really want to happen.

And I'm sure you know your own man but unless you have concrete proof that his wife knows about you, you should be reticent about getting too involved. Being a mistress or secondary partner can wind up excruciatingly painful if you invest too much or have unreasonable hopes of the marriage failing. You would not want to find out that he has not been wholly honest after giving him so much trust.

I don't know you and I'm more than happy to be wrong. In my time here though, many secondary partners have posted here broken-hearted because they were deceived and used and I'd hate for you to be one of them.

 

[BiBunny]

I know I probably shouldn't even bother posting, knowing how these threads usually turn out, but...I'm bored.

Slave = Property
Sub = Not Property

 

[00Syd]

I know I probably shouldn't even bother posting, knowing how these threads usually turn out, but...I'm bored.

Slave = Property
Sub = Not Property

But.. Property is just an imaginary concept!



/tongue in cheek

 

[BiBunny]

But.. Property is just an imaginary concept!



/tongue in cheek

Oh, fuck me. How could I have forgotten so soon? *Facepalm*

 

[CutieMouse]

I know I probably shouldn't even bother posting, knowing how these threads usually turn out, but...I'm bored.

Slave = Property
Sub = Not Property

But.. Property is just an imaginary concept!



/tongue in cheek

Oh, fuck me. How could I have forgotten so soon? *Facepalm*

I thought about pointing out that in a BDSM context, "slavery" really is an orchestrated construct... but I thought y'all might lynch me.

 

[eastern sun]

I know I probably shouldn't even bother posting, knowing how these threads usually turn out, but...I'm bored.

Slave = Property
Sub = Not Property

And since we've even argued over what "property" means D), I'm going to expand just a bit by mentioning the "rights of ownership" as recognized legally -

the right to the possession, use, or disposal of something.

If I'm the "something," then being my husband's property means he has the right to possess me, use me (as he wishes), and dispose of me (as he wishes).

I, on the other hand, do not have those rights over him.

It also means, incidentally, that I don't have ownership rights over anything else either. My husband recognizes things as belonging to me, but has no difficulty using them when he needs them. Anything from reading glasses to money to the food on my plate are his, when he wants them. (Though I haven't always made the experience of his taking them pleasant for him.)

As people have pointed out in other threads, my husband is still limited in his rights of ownership by the laws of the land - i.e. technically, he is not allowed to dispose of me by killing me or selling me to Russian slave traders.

But that is external to the relationship itself. Part of the context in which it exists.


A sub does not cede his/her rights in the same manner. Specifically, a sub still retains rights not to be used in ways s/he does not wish to be used - hence the use of checklists, parameters, and safewords.

 

[eastern sun]

I thought about pointing out that in a BDSM context, "slavery" really is an orchestrated construct... but I thought y'all might lynch me.

This all went down while I was writing! Shoot. Now I look all serious in the midst of a party.

(Let the orchestra play. . . .)

 

[gigi1968]

slave (slv) n.
1. One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
2. One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence
3. One who works extremely hard.
4. A machine or component controlled by another machine or component.

submissive [səbˈmɪsɪv] adj
of, tending towards, or indicating submission, humility, or servility

The most commonly listed difference I've always seen mentioned is that slaves abdicate the right to say "no"; however, there are those who remove "no" from their relationship vocabulary, yet still identify as submissive rather than slave.

Thank you for this, it helps.

Slavery doesn't have to occur in a 24/7 cohabiting relationship IMO. If slavery is something you want to do and something your partner is interested in exploring with you, the only rules are the ones you set between you.

Typically, those here who identify as slaves give up the right to refuse their owner anything reasonable and lawful. They do not use safewords, allowing the dominant partner to assess their limits for him/herself. They are service oriented, anticipate needs and desires where appropriate and enjoy making life for their partner as contented as possible. If any or all of these things are what you see as 'slave' traits rather than 'sub' traits, it's perfectly possible to apply them to your dynamic and identify as a slave, for the duration of the time that you spend together. Outside of your face-to-face time, you'll have to set your own boundaries regarding what's appropriate, mutually desired and practical.

So far as letting go of control goes, only you can make that decision based on trust, good communication and what your guy may expect from you if you do cede your limits. Most Masters/Owners are well aware that there are things their partner can't handle, for whatever reason, and have no interest in going there. Giving up control should not mean you're expected to do anything you could not physically tolerate, that would harm you psychologically or that would jeopardise his marriage. It may seem a bit odd to suggest that you should only consider slavery to someone who won't ask you to do things you really don't want to but that's all part of compatibility and trust.

I think that the fact this man already has primary partner means that something like this would need to be carefully negotiated so that there are no disappointments or misunderstandings. It's all perfectly possible however, if it's what you both really want to happen.

And I'm sure you know your own man but unless you have concrete proof that his wife knows about you, you should be reticent about getting too involved. Being a mistress or secondary partner can wind up excruciatingly painful if you invest too much or have unreasonable hopes of the marriage failing. You would not want to find out that he has not been wholly honest after giving him so much trust.

I don't know you and I'm more than happy to be wrong. In my time here though, many secondary partners have posted here broken-hearted because they were deceived and used and I'd hate for you to be one of them.

A lot of good points here....and about his marriage, they are in a very open marriage. She is a swinger and he does not care for that, he is into BDSM and she does not care for his Sadistic/bondage side. As a matter of fact he takes her to meet her new dates and is her safecall. He said you should see their faces when they realize her husband dropped her off for the date. She and I get along quite well. I respect the time that he sets aside for his family, as he does for my kids.

I am proud to be an owned sub.

 

[graceanne]

I thought about pointing out that in a BDSM context, "slavery" really is an orchestrated construct... but I thought y'all might lynch me.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/graceanne1978/rope-noose-1.jpg

 

[CutieMouse]

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/graceanne1978/rope-noose-1.jpg

Mmmmm.... bondage!

 

[graceanne]

Mmmmm.... bondage!

LOL!!