Time: A New Ice Age?

[landslider2000]

Time Magazine, June 24, 1974

Science: Another Ice Age?

In Africa, drought continues for the sixth consecutive year, adding terribly to the toll of famine victims. During 1972 record rains in parts of the U.S., Pakistan and Japan caused some of the worst flooding in centuries. In Canada's wheat belt, a particularly chilly and rainy spring has delayed planting and may well bring a disappointingly small harvest. Rainy Britain, on the other hand, has suffered from uncharacteristic dry spells the past few springs. A series of unusually cold winters has gripped the American Far West, while New England and northern Europe have recently experienced the mildest winters within anyone's recollection.

As they review the bizarre and unpredictable weather pattern of the past several years, a growing number of scientists are beginning to suspect that many seemingly contradictory meteorological fluctuations are actually part of a global climatic upheaval. However widely the weather varies from place to place and time to time, when meteorologists take an average of temperatures around the globe they find that the atmosphere has been growing gradually cooler for the past three decades. The trend shows no indication of reversing. Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age.

 

[Saint Peter]

Do you ever smell the milk before you dump in on your Wheaties?

 

[thør]

Do you ever smell the milk before you dump in on your Wheaties?

He just read that at the dentist office, yesterday.

 

[Applesaround]

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=672645

 

[berry juice]

Time Magazine, June 24, 1974

Science: Another Ice Age?

In Africa, drought continues for the sixth consecutive year, adding terribly to the toll of famine victims. During 1972 record rains in parts of the U.S., Pakistan and Japan caused some of the worst flooding in centuries. In Canada's wheat belt, a particularly chilly and rainy spring has delayed planting and may well bring a disappointingly small harvest. Rainy Britain, on the other hand, has suffered from uncharacteristic dry spells the past few springs. A series of unusually cold winters has gripped the American Far West, while New England and northern Europe have recently experienced the mildest winters within anyone's recollection.
.

I suppose you are not a global warming supporter

 

[tinylittlegnat]

Its amazing how some people dont understand the scientific method.

 

[tinylittlegnat]

I suppose you are not a global warming supporter

I don't support it either. Its hot enough in Louisiana without it getting hotter. global cooling sounds nice.

 

[landslider2000]

I have no idea what the merits of anthropogenic global warming theory might be. Perhaps the theory is entirely correct.

The above was posted merely to show how often false certitude crops up in the history of science.

Eppur si muove.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Le Jacquelope]

World's getting cooler, I say!

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/10/15-1

Published on Thursday, October 15, 2009 by TimesOnline/UK
The Arctic Will Be Ice-Free in Summer within 20 Years, Research Says

by Ben Webster

Ships will be able to sail in open water to the North Pole in the summer of 2020, according to a study that found a rapid acceleration in the loss of sea ice.

The Arctic will be ice-free in summer within 20 years, the study found, while the Earth will lose the white cap that can be seen in photographs taken from space.

The Polar Ocean Physics Group from Cambridge University compared measurements of ice thickness recorded by a Royal Navy nuclear submarine with those taken two years later in the same area by Pen Hadow, the explorer.

The two sets of measurements were consistent, revealing that the findings by HMS Tireless in 2007 were not an aberration caused by a particularly warm year.

Peter Wadhams, Professor of Ocean Physics at Cambridge, said that cargo ships would no longer need to rely on special ice-breaking vessels to cross from the Pacific to the Atlantic via the Northwest Passage. The route would be ice-free for several months every year, cutting more than 3,000 miles from the normal journey from the Far East to Europe via the Suez canal.

"The North Pole will be exposed in ten years. You would be able to sail a Japanese car carrier across the North Pole and out into the Atlantic," Professor Wadhams said.

"The ice will retreat to a zone north of Greenland and Ellesmere Island by 2020 and that area will be less than half the present summer area. The change in the Arctic summer sea ice is the biggest impact global warming is having on the physical appearance of the planet."

This month, the National Snow and Ice Data Centre, which is part of the University of Colorado, said that Arctic ice coverage was the third-lowest since satellite records began in 1979.

The coverage was greater than in 2007 and 2008 largely because of cloudy skies during late summer. Each of the past five years has been one of the five lowest years.

Professor Wadhams, who was on board the submarine supervising sonar measurements of the ice, said that Mr Hadow's findings confirmed that the underlying trend was towards increasingly thin and patchy ice cover.

Mr Hadow and his two team members spent 73 days between March 1 and May 7 this year walking 280 miles (450.6km) across the Arctic while taking measurements.

They drilled 1,500 holes and found that the average thickness of ice floes was 1.8m (5.9ft).

This was too thin to have survived the previous year's summer melting and indicated that the area of moving ice had been formed in open sea during the winter.

Mr Hadow said that future expeditions to the Arctic in summer would need to change their techniques and equipment to cope with more frequent stretches of open water.

"A hundred years ago explorers used dogs to haul sledges and then we went through the stage of people hauling sledges," he said. "Now we have people wearing immersion suits and needing to swim, with the sledge floating. I foresee a time when the sledge will become more of a canoe."

Mr Hadow said that he had decided to change the focus of his polar expeditions from exploration to collecting data that could help to predict changes in the climate.

Martin Summerkorn, climate change adviser to the WWF Arctic Programme, said that the loss of sea ice predicted by the Cambridge study would have profound consequences beyond the polar region.

Without ice to reflect sunlight, the Arctic Ocean would warm more quickly, resulting in the release of greenhouse gases stored in the Arctic permafrost soils. These soils contain twice as much carbon as is in the atmosphere.

Mr Summerkorn said that the warming of the Arctic surface waters would accelerate the melting of the Greenland ice sheet, speeding up the sea level rise. "This could lead to flooding affecting one quarter of the world's population and extreme global weather changes," he said.
© 2009 Times Newspapers Ltd.

 

[KellysCrack]

Its amazing how some people don't understand the scientific method.

I am sorry but I am trying to see which scientific method you would be referring to??

The Al Gore (not a scientist) Brown (Not a scientist)

The only thing that I do know is we are in a lower then normal solar activity. The sun is what heats the planets.

The other would be that we were so cool and wet this spring summer and fall none of the crops turned out very good for veggies.

 

[tinylittlegnat]

I am sorry but I am trying to see which scientific method you would be referring to??

The Al Gore (not a scientist) Brown (Not a scientist)

The only thing that I do know is we are in a lower then normal solar activity. The sun is what heats the planets.

The other would be that we were so cool and wet this spring summer and fall none of the crops turned out very good for veggies.

The theory of global warming predates Al Gore. He took it up as his cause. It was then that it became as political as it is now.

The sun does provide most of the planets heat but it isnt the only thing. The greenhouse effect does its part too and always has.

You are not a scientist either. Just because veggies didnt gow well near you does not mean it didnt grow well everywhere. Here in Louisiana they grew just fine. My future father in law had an over abundance of crop this year.

 

[Applesaround]

The theory of global warming predates Al Gore. He took it up as his cause. It was then that it became as political as it is now.

The sun does provide most of the planets heat but it isnt the only thing. The greenhouse effect does its part too and always has.

You are not a scientist either. Just because veggies didnt gow well near you does not mean it didnt grow well everywhere. Here in Louisiana they grew just fine. My future father in law had an over abundance of crop this year.

Kelly'sCrack still is spot on. The sun is the single most primary driver of climate; CO2 in fact shows no correlation with climate when contrasted with measured glacial maxima (i.e. ice ages). In fact the Carboniferous Period saw much higher atmospheric CO2 coinciding with the longest ice age on the planet's history. Measured increases in global temperature also coincide with measured increases in global temperature on Mars. THis is argued by some as evidence that the Sun is principal reason for climate forcing.

The single most affective greenhouse gase is water vapour, not CO2. The Little Ice Age coincides with a period of low sunspot activity. As for the bumper crops....well remote sensing data shows an increase in the amount of vegetation despite urbanization and deforestation. Vegetation and CO2 levels do have a direct and simple relationship as we all are aware (ie. >CO2 is better for plants). In fact the post-Carboniferous drawdown in CO2 was largely due to the advance of landplants in the Devonian Period which was an effective drawdown on atmospheric CO2.

Records also show a trend of global cooling since 1998. Also as the Arctic ice sheet is receding, the Antarctic ice sheet is advancing which is attributed by some to Milankovitch cycles.

 

[KRCummings]

: Another Ice Age?

.

I don't know. I think 3 movies was enough.

 

[tinylittlegnat]

I don't know. I think 3 movies was enough.

The second one was horrible. The other 2 were fine.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Records also show a trend of global cooling since 1998. Also as the Arctic ice sheet is receding, the Antarctic ice sheet is advancing which is attributed by some to Milankovitch cycles.

Uh, whut?

http://www.livescience.com/environment/050421_glacial_retreat.html

Environment
Antarctic Glaciers Melting Rapidly

By Robert Roy Britt, LiveScience Senior Writer

posted: 21 April 2005 02:00 pm ET

A new study of glaciers in a portion of the Antarctic finds 84 percent of them have retreated over the past 50 years in response to a warmer climate.

The work was based on 2,000 aerial photos, some taken in the 1940s, and satellite images. The climate in the region has warmed by more than 4.5 degrees Fahrenheit (2.5 Celsius) in the last 50 years, the scientists said.

"The widespread retreat of the glaciers on the Antarctic Peninsula over the last 50 years was largely caused by climate change," said David Vaughan of the British Antarctic Survey in Cambridge. "Are humans responsible? We can't say for sure, but we are one step closer to answering this important question."

 

[Applesaround]

Uh, whut?

http://www.livescience.com/environment/050421_glacial_retreat.html

Environment
Antarctic Glaciers Melting Rapidly

By Robert Roy Britt, LiveScience Senior Writer

posted: 21 April 2005 02:00 pm ET

A new study of glaciers in a portion of the Antarctic finds 84 percent of them have retreated over the past 50 years in response to a warmer climate.

The work was based on 2,000 aerial photos, some taken in the 1940s, and satellite images. The climate in the region has warmed by more than 4.5 degrees Fahrenheit (2.5 Celsius) in the last 50 years, the scientists said.

"The widespread retreat of the glaciers on the Antarctic Peninsula over the last 50 years was largely caused by climate change," said David Vaughan of the British Antarctic Survey in Cambridge. "Are humans responsible? We can't say for sure, but we are one step closer to answering this important question."

I'll dig up a good peer reviewed article where I got my information from. You'll find it interesting

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I'll dig up a good peer reviewed article where I got my information from. You'll find it interesting

One that contradicts the temperature increases plus the finding that 84% of Antarctica's glaciers have retreated over the last 50 years? Hmmm. Velly intellesting.

 

[Applesaround]

One that contradicts the temperature increases plus the finding that 84% of Antarctica's glaciers have retreated over the last 50 years? Hmmm. Velly intellesting.

Well I can post some articles pertaining to alot of things if you like. It might take me a little bit. But I'd be happy to. And anyone who takes the time can be the judge, counter, etc. My office has a wonderful library of periodicals so it's easy for me to dig up. You have to wait until I get out of the field though first

I will say that your article mentions "a portion of the Antarctic"--so it's 84% of the studied ice sheets, not of the entire Antarctic. I think they're referring to the West Antarctic Ice sheet which has been shrinking. The East Antarctic Ice sheet is bigger (3 to 4 times bigger) and has been growing since the 1980's at least according to Australian scientists.

Although if I can say one thing: I didn't contradict that global warming has been occurring. We've been warming since the 1850's--the end of the Little Ice Age (which wasn't REALLY an ice age), and the long time trend for the glaciers is one of retreat since the last glacial maxima 14,000 years ago, so you can say Antarctica has been retreating for the last 14,000 years (and 14,000 years ago, we know it wasn't CO2 to blame). I just get wary of catastrophists who think the sky is falling and think a little perspective is a good thing.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Well I can post some articles pertaining to alot of things if you like. It might take me a little bit. But I'd be happy to. And anyone who takes the time can be the judge, counter, etc. My office has a wonderful library of periodicals so it's easy for me to dig up. You have to wait until I get out of the field though first

I will say that your article mentions "a portion of the Antarctic"--so it's 84% of the studied ice sheets, not of the entire Antarctic. I think they're referring to the West Antarctic Ice sheet which has been shrinking. The East Antarctic Ice sheet is bigger (3 to 4 times bigger) and has been growing since the 1980's at least according to Australian scientists.

Although if I can say one thing: I didn't contradict that global warming has been occurring. We've been warming since the 1850's--the end of the Little Ice Age (which wasn't REALLY an ice age), and the long time trend for the glaciers is one of retreat since the last glacial maxima 14,000 years ago, so you can say Antarctica has been retreating for the last 14,000 years (and 14,000 years ago, we know it wasn't CO2 to blame). I just get wary of catastrophists who think the sky is falling and think a little perspective is a good thing.

The sky isn't falling? Maybe not, but the waters are definitely rising. Just ask the government of the Maldives. Their whole land is about to go underwater.
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/10/m...underwater-to-show-effects-of-global-warming/

As for Antarctica... their largest glacier is sliding toward the ocean. And tons of methane is thawing out, too.
http://www.greenrightnow.com/kovr/2009/02/28/antarctica-melting-faster-than-expected/

 

[Applesaround]

The sky isn't falling? Maybe not, but the waters are definitely rising. Just ask the government of the Maldives. Their whole land is about to go underwater.
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/10/m...underwater-to-show-effects-of-global-warming/

As for Antarctica... their largest glacier is sliding toward the ocean. And tons of methane is thawing out, too.
http://www.greenrightnow.com/kovr/2009/02/28/antarctica-melting-faster-than-expected/

I'm always wary of 'green' internet sites, and any findings by the IPCC have been cast into doubt since the Mann hockeystick fiasco, which has been outed by the scientific community as an outright farce. I prefer peer reviewed articles, but in fairness to what you say, I'll do my homework. I haven't anything to contradict it, and no reason to doubt it (other than the IPCC relationship).

I couldn't open the Maldive link...

Addendum: this is what i could find in a pinch http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25349683-601,00.html

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I'm always wary of 'green' internet sites, and any findings by the IPCC have been cast into doubt since the Mann hockeystick fiasco, which has been outed by the scientific community as an outright farce. I prefer peer reviewed articles, but in fairness to what you say, I'll do my homework. I haven't anything to contradict it, and no reason to doubt it (other than the IPCC relationship).

I couldn't open the Maldive link...

Addendum: this is what i could find in a pinch http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25349683-601,00.html[/QUOTE]
Taking the IPCC out of it, I'll direct you right to the International Polar Year site instead, where the original link exists (as a PDF file):
http://ipy.arcticportal.org/index.php?option=com_k2&id=2145&view=item&Itemid=10

And try this link regarding the Maldives island:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/18/cabinet-underwater-to-dramatize-global-warming/

And if the eastern side of Antarctica is "growing" then why are the water levels rising?

 

[TurdFergeson]

I'm convinced anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions (CO2, water vapor, methane, and N2O) have certainly had climatic effects.

100+ years of the hydrocarbon age. Carbon naturally sequestered by the Earth being released directly in to the atmosphere in astronomical amounts. Ever increasing emissions and cumulative concentration buildups.

Now, so what? What says if humankind can effect things on such a massive and global scale, we can't also effect it in the opposite direction?

We have been, and it's been a success:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/earth/green-technology/remediation/atmospheric-sun-shade1.htm

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I'm convinced anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions (CO2, water vapor, methane, and N2O) have certainly had climatic effects.

100+ years of the hydrocarbon age. Carbon naturally sequestered by the Earth being released directly in to the atmosphere in astronomical amounts. Ever increasing emissions and cumulative concentration buildups.

Now, so what? What says if humankind can effect things on such a massive and global scale, we can't also effect it in the opposite direction?

We have been, and it's been a success:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/earth/green-technology/remediation/atmospheric-sun-shade1.htm

Wow. Way cool. Backing up one's beliefs with action. It doesn't get any better than that.

 

[pointless]

Hey ho, lets go
hey ho, lets go
hey ho, lets go
hey ho, lets go

They're forming in straight line
They're going through a tight wind
The kids are losing their minds
The blitzkrieg bop

They're piling in the back seat
They generate steam heat
Pulsating to the back beat
The blitzkrieg bop

Hey ho, lets go shootem in the back now
What they want, I dont know
They're all reved up and ready to go

They're forming in straight line
They're going through a tight wind
The kids are losing their minds
The blitzkrieg bop

They're piling in the back seat
They generate steam heat
Pulsating to the back beat
The blitzkrieg bop

Hey ho, lets go shoot 'em in the back now
What they want, I dont know
They're all reved up and ready to go

They're forming in straight line
They're going through a tight wind
The kids are losing their minds
The blitzkrieg bop

They're piling in the back seat
They generate steam heat
Pulsating to the back beat
The blitzkrieg bop

Hey ho, lets go
hey ho, lets go
Hey ho, lets go
hey ho, lets go