History is History

[Boxlicker101]

I got this in my email a ferw days ago, and thought I would pass it on. The original had some photos, so I will see if I can't copy them too.

Subject: Fw: History is History

History is History....
No matter what portion of human history is reviewed there will likely be someone who may be annoyed by it.


General Dwight David Eisenhower warned us after World War 2 about the Holocaust.


It is a matter of history that when the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, General Dwight Eisenhower, discovered the victims of the death camps in Germany he ordered complete and comprehensive photographs to be taken,and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even forced to help bury the dead.

He did this because he said in words to this effect: 'Get this all on record now...get the photographs, films, etc.....and get the witnesses, because somewhere down the road in history some son-of-a-bitch will rise up and say that this never happened!'

This week, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it 'offends' the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. It is not removed as of yet. However, this is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into the Muslim culture.< /B>

It is now more than 60 years since World War 2 ended in Europe. This e-mail is being sent as a memorial,in the memory of the 6 million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians, and 1,900 Catholic priests Who were 'murdered, raped, burned, starved, beaten, experimented on medically, and humiliated' while the German people looked the other way!

Now, more than ever, with Iran among others, claiming the Holocaust to be
'a myth;' it is imperative to make
sure the World never forgets.




This e-mail is intended to reach 400 million people. Please be a link in this memorial chain and help distribute this around the world.

How many years will pass before someone says the 9-11 attack on the World Trade Center...

'NEVER HAPPENED'

Because it may offend some Muslims in the USA???


Passing this message along will take only a few moments of your time.

REMEMBER...FREEDOM ISN'T FREE...SOMEONE HAS PAID FOR IT PREVIOUSLY!
If you can read this...thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English.....thank a veteran.
God Bless America!
Let's Never Forget
9-11!

 

[penandpaper]

The guy walking down Main Street the other day had a sign that read:

Only 300,000 Jews were killed during the holocaust. Sad, to see someone devoting themselves to a fact, true or not (it's not), that should still be taught as a lesson, and discussed with abject humility from all of humanity.

 

[slyc_willie]

It's been said that "History is written by the victors." Like politics or science, history is just as susceptible to interpretation, whim, and ideology.

Very few modern students truly understand the politics and belief system of the Inquisition. All they are taught is that it was a bad thing. In its day, the Inquisition was every bit as dangerous and damaging as the Nazi Holocaust. Now, the Inquisition exists as a footnote in history and the subject of a Monty Python skit.

The article mentioned above kind of has me shaking my head in dubious wonder. I hardly think there is much danger of removing the existence of the Holocaust from mainstream historical study. But I don't doubt that even such a heinous event, over six decades old, has had its details fallen to the wayside in favor of more recent historical events. Politically motivated? Perhaps. Kow-towing to appease some ethnic or religious groups? Could be.

But it will never be forgotten, at least as long as our western civilization exists.

History is like a knife; keep it polished and well-maintained, and it will serve for a long time. Let it dull and rust, and it eventually becomes useless save for the fact that it existed.

 

[Boxlicker101]

It's been said that "History is written by the victors." Like politics or science, history is just as susceptible to interpretation, whim, and ideology.

Very few modern students truly understand the politics and belief system of the Inquisition. All they are taught is that it was a bad thing. In its day, the Inquisition was every bit as dangerous and damaging as the Nazi Holocaust. Now, the Inquisition exists as a footnote in history and the subject of a Monty Python skit.

The article mentioned above kind of has me shaking my head in dubious wonder. I hardly think there is much danger of removing the existence of the Holocaust from mainstream historical study. But I don't doubt that even such a heinous event, over six decades old, has had its details fallen to the wayside in favor of more recent historical events. Politically motivated? Perhaps. Kow-towing to appease some ethnic or religious groups? Could be.

But it will never be forgotten, at least as long as our western civilization exists.

History is like a knife; keep it polished and well-maintained, and it will serve for a long time. Let it dull and rust, and it eventually becomes useless save for the fact that it existed.

History is written by the victors, but sometimes they augment it with films and photographs, which make it hard for those with axes to grind to refute. The Inquisition is not even close to being forgotten, and never will be. Torquemada is still an infamous person.

As I understand, the Spanish Inquisition, which is usually considered to be the worst, was started to stamp out the last remnants of the long Muslim occupation of the Iberian Peninsula. Whether this was a worthwhile objective or not is open to conjecture, but it got out of hand and concentrated on Jews, which is not hard to believe. Jews have long been the whipping boys of everybody else.

 

[slyc_willie]

History is written by the victors, but sometimes they augment it with films and photographs, which make it hard for those with axes to grind to refute. The Inquisition is not even close to being forgotten, and never will be. Torquemada is still an infamous person.

As I understand, the Spanish Inquisition, which is usually considered to be the worst, was started to stamp out the last remnants of the long Muslim occupation of the Iberian Peninsula. Whether this was a worthwhile objective or not is open to conjecture, but it got out of hand and concentrated on Jews, which is not hard to believe. Jews have long been the whipping boys of everybody else.

Among the sixty or so people I work with, maybe two or three know a little more about the Inquisition other than "it happened." I know this because every day, when the kids at the restaurant comer to me to be checked out, I always write some obscure "word of the day" on their check-out reports.

Recently, I wrote "Torquemada" on their reports. Not a one could tell me who he was. The closest I got, after asking all the other employees, was a recollection of Mel Brooks' skit from History of the World Pt. 1.

Whether or not the Inquisition is remembered is immaterial; understanding of the event is, and it is that understanding that is very lacking.

Even most of the kids can't really describe what happened on 9/11/2001. All they know is that planes flew into the WTC and the Twin Towers fell down and went boom.

The education of history is only as good as its students.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Is it germaine to the conversation to link to snopes.com's article about this email?

Those news articles were a response to the March 2007 release of the Historical Association's report titled Teaching Emotive and Controversial History 3-19 a study funded by the UK's Department for Education and Skills to examine how educators in Britain were teaching sensitive and/or controversial aspects of history and to highlight what approaches had worked among those that had been tried.

(As for the reasons behind such a study, the report noted: "Teachers and schools avoid emotive and controversial history for a variety of reasons, some of which are well-intentioned. Some feel that certain issues are inappropriate for particular age groups or decide in advance that pupils lack the maturity to grasp them. Where teachers lack confidence in their subject knowledge or subject-specific pedagogy, this can also
be a reason for avoiding certain content. Staff may wish to avoid causing offence or appearing insensitive to individuals or groups in their classes. In particular settings, teachers of history are unwilling to challenge highly contentious or charged versions of history in which pupils are steeped at home, in their community or in a place of worship. Some teachers also feel that the issues are best avoided in history, believing them to be taught elsewhere in the curriculum such as in citizenship or religious education.")

This study was an early step in the process of reworking national curriculum, not its final outcome. That is, it was a gathering and presentation of information rather than an assembly of recommendations meant to be implemented post-haste.

One history department looked at by the fact-finders was found to have cut information about the Holocaust from its lessons due to worries that Muslim pupils might express anti-Semitic reactions. Said the report: "For example, a history department in a northern city recently avoided selecting the Holocaust as a topic for GCSE coursework for fear of confronting anti-Semitic sentiment and Holocaust denial among some Muslim pupils. In another history department, the Holocaust was taught despite anti-Semitic sentiment among some pupils, but the same department deliberately avoided teaching the Crusades at Key Stage 3 because their balanced treatment of the topic would have directly challenged what was taught in some local mosques.")

Which last reminds me of the way some of our nation's school administrations try to not teach Evolution, because it directly challenges what is taught in some local churches.

Religion can indeed be problematic at times. Especially for children.

 

[NoJo]

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." That brilliant quote by Mark Twain summarizes why history is worth studying: For me, it's exactly like evolution: Themes repeat, but are never the same. We can learn from it, but it has no rubrics.

 

[Epmd607]

Holocaust denial isn't as interesting as Armenian Genocide denial. Because Iran isn't our friend, but Turkey is... There's probably not anyone here that would argue either didn't occur. But, Holocaust denial is used as an argument whenever there's a need for war. When genocide is mentioned as a possibility it automatically becomes, "We can't let another Holocaust happen!" and in pretty much every war since WWII someone's used this faulty reasoning to justify something unjust.

Persian Gulf 1, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Persian Gulf 2 all had people repeating the mantra "We can't let another Holocaust happen!" whereas Kosovo was the only thing remotely close as justification for violence. And you know, we didn't send ground troops into Kosovo, we just bombed everything then went in and sorted out the mess.

 

[NoJo]

The us military and government may be "we" to you, but I have very little identification with that regime. In fact I don't like hearing people use the term "we" in this way, as they do with football teams

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Box, it's not just the muslims who claim the Holocost never took place. There is a growing movement in Germany among the "X-Generation" who claim it's al a lie too.

 

[Epmd607]

The us military and government may be "we" to you, but I have very little identification with that regime. In fact I don't like hearing people use the term "we" in this way, as they do with football teams

If we distance ourselves from the crimes then it's easier for more crimes against humanity to occur. Kosovo was a UN action, the whole world has to take responsibility for the way the war was fought(this war is still being fought, unfortunately.)

If we live in democracies or not, it shouldn't matter. Any population has the ability to act when crimes occur, especially when said crimes our done in our name. The invasion of Iraq part two was done on behalf of the Western World. If you believe we elect our officials and that they act on our behalf I don't see how you can evade responsibility for crimes done in our name. I fought in Iraq and afghanistan, even spent four months in a health clinic in kosovo during my army time. Could I say that I'm not responsible for my actions in Iraq, that I'm just a tool of the gov? Of course not. If you live in America or England right now, what's being done in Iraq and Afghanistan is as much your responsibility as it is the soldiers and the leaders who you had the ability to remove via election. I don't know, maybe you live on a Lakota reservation. In that case you're clear of all charges.

 

[Epmd607]

Box, it's not just the muslims who claim the Holocost never took place. There is a growing movement in Germany among the "X-Generation" who claim it's al a lie too.

you say 'the muslims' as if all of the muslim world was denying the holocaust. I think if you look at the official position of each muslim nation you'd find that it's a minority opinion. Just like there's that group of super crazy jews that want to destroy the state of Israel. That's not really a jewish opinion, that the state of Israel should be destroyed, is it?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6171503.stm

 

[Handley_Page]

Box, it's not just the muslims who claim the Holocost never took place. There is a growing movement in Germany among the "X-Generation" who claim it's al a lie too.

Sad, int' it?.
All that generation has to do is ask their grandparents and read the press.

Anyone who says that it didn't happen is totally mad!

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Sad, int' it?.
All that generation has to do is ask their grandparents and read the press.

Anyone who says that it didn't happen is totally mad!

The US build the concentration camps AFTER the war. Didn't you hear

In fact there are some errors in Box's original post. The Germans living in the immediate area of only two death camps were required to tour and/or work at the camps. All claimed they didn't know what was going on in any of the camps even though they could small the smoke from the ovens for several years. It's sad they didn't make ALL the German population work cleaning up those camps. The ones who didn't have too are still sayiong, "It wasn't me."

Oh, an set the record straight. The nazis murdered 25% of the Jews in Europe. At the same time the murdered 80% of the Jehovahs Witnesses in the WORLD.

 

[R. Richard]

All right, boys and girls, we have pretty much agreed that the holocaust happened. However, due to the USA and German educational system, some children don't know that it happened.

Now, let's get to the key HISTORY question. Why did the holocaust happen? If you don't know the answer, it's all too likely that another 'holocaust' will happen [again.]

 

[rgraham666]

Like everybody doesn't rewrite history to suit their beliefs.

Here in Canada and the States we don't teach a thing about the ethnic cleansing of the Native Americans.

Britain doesn't teach about the concentration camps and scorched earth policy it used in the Boer War.

France doesn't teach about the torture they used during the Algerian War.

I doubt the Russians have much to say about the gulags and the use of 'punishment battalions' as cannon fodder during what they characterize as The Great Patriotic War.

Similarly I'll bet the Chinese don't teach much about The Cultural Revolution.

Everybody picks and chooses from history according to their prejudices. There's nothing special about Islam in this respect.

 

[Epmd607]

What does islam have to gain from denying the holocaust? Nothing. Again, most Muslims don't deny the Holocaust.

 

[cloudy]

Like everybody doesn't rewrite history to suit their beliefs.

Here in Canada and the States we don't teach a thing about the ethnic cleansing of the Native Americans.

Thank you.

Ami's still a big believer in manifest destiny.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny_Jackson
Box, it's not just the muslims who claim the Holocost never took place. There is a growing movement in Germany among the "X-Generation" who claim it's al a lie too.

you say 'the muslims' as if all of the muslim world was denying the holocaust. I think if you look at the official position of each muslim nation you'd find that it's a minority opinion. Just like there's that group of super crazy jews that want to destroy the state of Israel. That's not really a jewish opinion, that the state of Israel should be destroyed, is it?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6171503.stm

I would never claim that it is only Muslims. I suspect at least some of the KKK membership denies it also, besides the young Germans you mention. However, I believe a plurality of the deniers are Muslims, such as the mullahs who rule Iran or those mentioned in the email that Stella posted.

ETA: Although I started this thread, the email I included is one I received and I thought it worth passing on without editing.

 

[rgraham666]

Thank you.

Ami's still a big believer in manifest destiny.

Only because he's not one of the people 'manifest destiny' is going to grind into the dirt.

 

[Weird Harold]

I would never claim that it is only Muslims. I suspect at least some of the KKK membership denies it also, besides the young Germans you mention. However, I believe a plurality of the deniers are Muslims, such as the mullahs who rule Iran or those mentioned in the email that Stella posted.

What disturbs me more than ignorance about the Holocaust -- which after all is only the most effective of a long, long, long history of pogroms against Jews as scapegoats for some ruling powers insecurities -- is the growing number of "white supremist" movements that don't deny the Holocaust, they just consider it the failure of a good idea.

A lot of the "non-denial" element rally behind the Deniers and give lip service to the idea of "inflated claims" and Fraud or Fabrication theories. They also tend to be supporters of the "The Holocaust wasn't anti-semitic because slavs, romany, and other groups were sent to the death camps in significant numbers, too" line of revisionism -- an especially dangerous argument as it contains a grain of Truth.