I think most women are basically sluts.

[midwestyankee]

It's a wild and crazy world out there, no doubt!

Almost anything you can think of will be more common than you imagined.

Even if its something totally bat-fuck weird, and you think there can't be more than a handful of people into it, there will usually be a whole little community. Its always, always more common than you imagined.

I mean. Whats with that weird-ass BDSM stuff? Tons of people into that. I know, totally wild, right?

There are people who find dinoflagellates erotic. Crazy indeed!

I've actually done some thinking about this recently.

Just as politics is evolving to "balkanize" much of eastern Europe and other regions, I wonder if we're also balkanizing ourselves by our recreational interests.

Consider all the specialized online fora, such as Literotica and Fetlife, that exist for various other interests: gaming, aviation, sports (both participative and for fans), crafts, etc. We become what we do, no? Most of us have limited amounts of time for social interactions so how do we spend that time?

In my parents' generation, much social interaction was based primarily on family, geography, or work. On the weekend, you partied with your family or your neighbors, or occasionally with co-workers. A few people in the upper income levels belonged to social clubs, such as country clubs, that may served as social centers. Not so any longer.

Now, the spread-out families can no longer associate very often. It's hard to go over to your brother's house to play cards on Saturday night when he lives 1,000 miles away. How many neighborhoods behave like old-style neighborhoods where everyone knows everyone else and there's a regular social calendar of events shared by neighbors? Not many.

Today, it seems to me, that we tend to organize our social lives around our recreational interests at least as much as we do around family, work, or geography. We're dividing ourselves up along fault lines that were rarely used in previous generations.

I don't know if this is good or bad; it's probably neither. But I do think that it's an interesting phenomenon.

[/hijack]

 

[StrayKat]

I
Just as politics is evolving to "balkanize" much of eastern Europe and other regions, I wonder if we're also balkanizing ourselves by our recreational interests.

Funny, I mostly see our Eastern Europe politicians trying to "westernize". I prefer "balkanizing" myself. In my opinion its healthier.

 

[ownedsubgal]

*puts on the devil's advocate hat*

The same sort of logic can be applied to the brat label too.

Homburg, i do see the two sides...doormats are viewed as too submissive, while brats are often viewed as not submissive enough, or at all. nonetheless, i have noticed many proudly wear the brat label and many proudly proclaim their love of brats...sluts (in the dictionary sense of being easy and promiscuous), not so much. doormats, almost never. a doormat slut...a submissive who just cannot say no to sex, whether they want to or not...you can forget about it.

 

[Homburg]

Homburg, i do see the two sides...doormats are viewed as too submissive, while brats are often viewed as not submissive enough, or at all. nonetheless, i have noticed many proudly wear the brat label and many proudly proclaim their love of brats...sluts (in the dictionary sense of being easy and promiscuous), not so much. doormats, almost never. a doormat slut...a submissive who just cannot say no to sex, whether they want to or not...you can forget about it.

Eh, I was just sayin'. Like I said, devil's advocate time. In this case, it is just niche validation, and it is applicable to many niches. Given time, anyone can back themselves into a niche and feel trapped by their own identity.

 

[BiBunny]

Not to be an asshole because the labels apply to me, too, but I kinda think the terms "doormat" and "slut" go hand-in-hand.

I have the vanilla equivalent of two girlfriends and a boyfriend. I talk dirty to men on the phone for money. I wouldn't turn down another partner who interested me. I'm a slut by most anyone's definition.

And the doormat thing, well, we've already covered that.

 

[00Syd]

Dude, balloons.

Sneezing and coughing.

If you can see it as a market segment in phone sex, and make money off it, it exists. I am the Decartes of sex when it comes to that.

I actually know a guy that runs (or at least ran) a balloon site. He also did sneezing vids. Crazy stuff. We were trying to get together and do some balloon/sneezing and rope shoots (not that I'm into balloons or sneezing, but, hey, porn shoot), but he lives too far away for me to do it easily.

It was a bit eye-opening to hit his site and this "People tug it to this. Wow."

There is this one guy in NYC who is super into balloons and at every party he goes to, he brings this whole big balloon set-up. He'll blow up big, giant, rigged balloons that girls can ride while someone holds a hitatchi to the balloon. He'll blow up big giant balloons and people will go inside them. This is all immensely entertaining to watch, and even more so because he always wears incredibly detailed, outdated uniforms. Really, quite a show.

*puts on the devil's advocate hat*

The same sort of logic can be applied to the brat label too.

I you.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Not to be an asshole because the labels apply to me, too, but I kinda think the terms "doormat" and "slut" go hand-in-hand.

well kinda. a doormat has a high likelihood of being a slut, because someone who can't refuse others is very likely to be taken advantage of sexually. but a slut isn't necessarily a doormat, especially when you consider the stereotypical modern mainstream image of "slut"...aggressive, confident, sexually liberated woman who has sex with many casual partners, on her own terms of course. a la Samantha of Sex in the City.

 

[jenniferbaby]

In a way I guess I like the extremes and I enjoy the idea of being slutty for the man I am serving... but only for him. Equally I enjoy being ''unobtainable'' to other men. Perhaps i am just a tease lol

I think there's something to this, being a slut in the right context and being "unobtainable" in other contexts. By the dictionary definition, I'm not a slut in the least. But I like being called a slut and acting "slutty" in the right context. So does that make me a slut? In the right context, yes. The word no longer has a negative connotation for me.

 

[00Syd]

When one is acting "slutty" for their SO, and being called a "slut" by their SO, but only for and by him/her, then I don't think the slut label really applies. It strikes me as roleplaying as a slut without actually being one. Slut to me implies promiscuity, not sexuality.

 

[ownedsubgal]

When one is acting "slutty" for their SO, and being called a "slut" by their SO, but only for and by him/her, then I don't think the slut label really applies. It strikes me as roleplaying as a slut without actually being one. Slut to me implies promiscuity, not sexuality.

agreed. what's a bit confusing to me is how you accept the standard definition of "slut," but not of "brat."

 

[BiBunny]

well kinda. a doormat has a high likelihood of being a slut, because someone who can't refuse others is very likely to be taken advantage of sexually. but a slut isn't necessarily a doormat, especially when you consider the stereotypical modern mainstream image of "slut"...aggressive, confident, sexually liberated woman who has sex with many casual partners, on her own terms of course. a la Samantha of Sex in the City.

Right, that's what I meant. It just didn't quite come out that way, LOL.

 

[midwestyankee]

well kinda. a doormat has a high likelihood of being a slut, because someone who can't refuse others is very likely to be taken advantage of sexually. but a slut isn't necessarily a doormat, especially when you consider the stereotypical modern mainstream image of "slut"...aggressive, confident, sexually liberated woman who has sex with many casual partners, on her own terms of course. a la Samantha of Sex in the City.

I like this distinction that you make here, osg. By these terms, a doormat might be considered promiscuous but to be a slut involves following one's own will. There's something intentional about being a slut while there's something accidental or passive about the sexuality of a doormat, regardless of how promiscuous he or she might be.

A slut willingly breaks the sexual rules of conventional society while a doormat allows himself or herself to break the rules mostly at someone else's direction.

It's not quite the same thing, but to follow on Homburg's recent post about brats, a brat is breaking the rules of engagement by being willfully resistant on her own terms whereas someone who is acting out within the accepted boundaries of the D/s relationship appears to be bratty on the surface but is still playing within the rules, possibly even against his or her own nature.

 

[00Syd]

agreed. what's a bit confusing to me is how you accept the standard definition of "slut," but not of "brat."

I accept the standard definition of brat when it applies to a spoiled brat child, but recognize that we're actually referencing something completely different when we apply the label to an adult. *shrug*

Apples and oranges I guess. Or some other wise sounding phrase.

I notice that a lot of people use the word slut to describe actions or behaviors that, to me, are just sexual. Being sexual isn't slutty, and I don't like when the word is used that way because it makes being sexual seem naughty or taboo for a woman, which really isn't the case. At least not anymore. At least not in my neck of the woods/to the people I know/to the people I want to know.

It's not quite the same thing, but to follow on Homburg's recent post about brats, a brat is breaking the rules of engagement by being willfully resistant on her own terms whereas someone who is acting out within the accepted boundaries of the D/s relationship appears to be bratty on the surface but is still playing within the rules, possibly even against his or her own nature.

Interesting thought.

 

[Homburg]

There is this one guy in NYC who is super into balloons and at every party he goes to, he brings this whole big balloon set-up. He'll blow up big, giant, rigged balloons that girls can ride while someone holds a hitatchi to the balloon. He'll blow up big giant balloons and people will go inside them. This is all immensely entertaining to watch, and even more so because he always wears incredibly detailed, outdated uniforms. Really, quite a show.

This guy had a pretty cool set-up. He had a vanilla studio that he rented space from, and never caught any grief, as the models were always clothed at least in bikinis. Nudity was very rarely figured on his sites, but his patrons didn't care. Was there a hot chick? Was she doing x random act with a balloon? Right, get out the lotion.

The sneezing was even more mundane in appearance, as most of those models were fully clothed.

I you.

--

agreed. what's a bit confusing to me is how you accept the standard definition of "slut," but not of "brat."

Ahem, devil's advocate time again, but we don't use a standard definition for "slave" around these parts either. And plenty of people say "punishment" but mean "funishment".

I think it almost qualifies as a neologism. Not quite, because it is not an actual "new word", but it is a rebranding of an existing term. Personally, I think it's a bit weird. "Brat" is, was, and always will be a perjorative. But, in this case, a certain populace sees it as a positive, and wants to retake the term.

It really is something I only understand externally. Sort of like I can understand the biomechanical side of a woman's menstrual cycle, but can't really grok what it feels like as a man. Or I can understand how to handle a horse without really getting what the horse is actually thinking. In the same way, I can understand the whole brat thing, even though I don't really grok it at a core level, and thus don't seek out brats as partners.

Interestingly, the more I think about this, the more I think that one of my best friends in the world wants a brat, and just doesn't know it.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I like this distinction that you make here, osg. By these terms, a doormat might be considered promiscuous but to be a slut involves following one's own will. There's something intentional about being a slut while there's something accidental or passive about the sexuality of a doormat, regardless of how promiscuous he or she might be.

A slut willingly breaks the sexual rules of conventional society while a doormat allows himself or herself to break the rules mostly at someone else's direction.

well see i disagree with this. a slut is promiscuous and indiscriminate, therefore a doormat can very likely be a slut. like me, i am a slut and a doormat. i do not believe that being a slut has anything whatsoever to do with wanting sex, following one's own will, or being in control. that is why the very narrow mainstream feministic view of slut...the Samantha...irritates me so much. i am a slut, and no longer ashamed of it, but i am not that kind of woman and see nothing admirable in that kind of female sexuality.

 

[jenniferbaby]

I think it almost qualifies as a neologism. Not quite, because it is not an actual "new word", but it is a rebranding of an existing term. Personally, I think it's a bit weird. "Brat" is, was, and always will be a perjorative. But, in this case, a certain populace sees it as a positive, and wants to retake the term.

I think this is what has happened with me and the word slut. I don't think of sluts in the standard dictionary definition any longer. Without meaning or intending to, I've decided to "reclaim" the word as many others have decided to also. A slut to me is someone who's intensely sexual, or someone who enjoys being called a slut. It doesn't matter to me who she's having sex with or how many partners she has.

a slut is promiscuous and indiscriminate, therefore a doormat can very likely be a slut.

I hate to split hairs here, but I'm wondering what is considered "promiscuous and indiscriminate." How many partners does a woman have to have before she's considered these things? Is it possible to be promiscuous and indiscriminate without being a slut? And everyone discriminates to an extent, even the dictionary definition sluts. I mean, they won't have sex with just ANYONE.

 

[JMohegan]

I went to college with a girl whom I'll call "G." In deciding whom to fuck, she had two rules. No guy who smelled bad, and no guy who was acting like a jerk.

She was openly curious about the male body, and eager to experience all kinds. As far as she was concerned, there was no guy too short, too fat, too awkward, too pimply. She was famous for fucking an extraordinary number of males - some good looking, confident, and accomplished, others not.

She was attractive, friendly, and very smart. I laughed with her, studied with her, argued with her in class. She was an outspoken feminist, but not a man hater - and because of her eloquence and her absence of malice, she had more influence on my views of feminist issues than all the shrieking militant bitches combined. She was also passionate about social justice, not just in words but in personal time and effort. In short, she was one of the most fundamentally decent people I have ever known.

I never fucked her, but I admired her greatly, for multiple reasons.

well see i disagree with this. a slut is promiscuous and indiscriminate, therefore a doormat can very likely be a slut. like me, i am a slut and a doormat. i do not believe that being a slut has anything whatsoever to do with wanting sex, following one's own will, or being in control. that is why the very narrow mainstream feministic view of slut...the Samantha...irritates me so much. i am a slut, and no longer ashamed of it, but i am not that kind of woman and see nothing admirable in that kind of female sexuality.

If someone posts: "I see nothing admirable in doormat slut sexuality," will you post yet another complaint about how hurtful that statement is?

 

[rida]

Thank you for sharing.

I myself have quite alike situation, biggest difference is that my marriage is not D/s relationship. I dont tend to get very emotionally attached either. I see those men (and sometimes women) more as living sex toys, although I am very picky and can grow quite fond of them.

We started as swingers but that was not really "it", the whole "scene" was too impersonal. We had hard time finding a couple that would suit us both as well. Besides we are really not into one night stand kind of thing.

I dont think my husband has exactly wife-sharing fetish. We accept women as sexual partners as well, me being bisexual doesnt mean I always want to participate... sometimes I find my own pleasure in just watching and directing.
Mostly its men though, and several times it was quite a relationship that lasted much longer than 3 times. I think we could both be happy in MMF relationship but we havent found suitable person yet.

I never thought such behavior so rare to be honest, I met plenty of couples "wired" in similar way.

Thank you for sharing your story as well

 

[rida]

Why do so many Japanese women want to marry foreign men?

My personal take is: genetics and social status/standing, with the percentage of each fluctuating with the economy and the evolution of Japanese society as well.

At first it was probably a genetic call: we are attracted to what is different as it makes for stronger off-springs.

Then it became that for many women, the "foreign husband", especially Western, was associated with a perceived better living standard, either because they were high level executive or because they would be given the chance to travel and live abroad. It also meant not having to bend to some of Japanese societies expectations (such as a typical male chauvinist husband).

Things have changed a lot thou in the 10+ year I've been here. High pay foreign exec have became fewer and far between (especially since last winter) and Japanese men have became much more "women friendly", helpful with typically considered woman chores in the household and they do not expect the wife to stay at home after marriage anymore.

Now to add in also :

This is so interesting. Do you think that Western fantasies about Japanese femininity being shattered are a huge part of the mismatch?

Japanese men are now actually better if you are looking for a equal partner in marriage. And at the same time, the Foreign men are still hanging on the idea of Japanese women as "submissive sexual things".

And with the economic changes in the Foreigner community landscape, a consequence is that it has gotten much harder for your average Joe to hook up with a Japanese woman for fun, as they are now much more interested in stable income and marriage.

So yes, for the average Joe, many Japanese women turn out to be nothing like their ideal and everything like their worst nightmare. Still in a cute and sexy and apparently available packaging.

And with regard to the part in bold - are you saying they don't mind polygamy, or are you saying they don't consider it dishonorable to fuck a cheating spouse with intent to disrupt the marriage?

The question posed in those term is implying a moral judgment that express the bias of a Western approach.

Men having mistresses/girlfriends has always been a normal part of society. And, with the liberation of feminism, women having boyfriends or boy-toys as gotten common as well.

Marriage traditionally had little to do with love, and a lot to do with society rules and standing. A business partnership of sort.

In the old days, the men having one or more mistresses/girlfriends was also part of status (after all you had to be wealthy to be able to provide for them). Of course there was also a lot of emphasis in keeping the wife status intact, and as such, socially the wife had a much higher standing.

With increased contacts with the Western world and the much more taboo views on sex and the concept of "cheating", Japanese society adjusted and a lot of those values have now being incorporated, at least on a surface level.

Reality thou is still that a single woman might still not mind being the mistress/girlfriend of a wealthy men (and of course going up the ladder and marrying him), and a married woman with a often gone husband does not mind having a lover that spend some of her free time with her. Same for the men.

Some might be unhappy in their marriage, but for many it is just some external entertainment. And the most common rule and agreement is the "don't ask, don't tell" with the added rule for the men of "don't flaunt it and don't spend all the money on her".

Historical detail: divorce has been around for a long time. The husband would sign a "release" form stating that it was nobody's fault and that the woman could merry again. Or, if the husband would refuse to sign the form, the woman could sick refuge in a specific temple and upon paying for a 2 year stay, she would get to stay inside for two years, work in the temple, be protected from the husband and once the two years were up, she would be legally divorced and free to re-marry. Now, if the husband caught the woman "in flagrante", he was legally allowed to kill her. However the lover could pay the cheated husband a fixed amount (sorry cannot remember it), to pay for her life to he spared and he would then not feel dishonored and would not kill her.

 

[Netzach]

Historical detail: divorce has been around for a long time. The husband would sign a "release" form stating that it was nobody's fault and that the woman could merry again. Or, if the husband would refuse to sign the form, the woman could sick refuge in a specific temple and upon paying for a 2 year stay, she would get to stay inside for two years, work in the temple, be protected from the husband and once the two years were up, she would be legally divorced and free to re-marry. Now, if the husband caught the woman "in flagrante", he was legally allowed to kill her. However the lover could pay the cheated husband a fixed amount (sorry cannot remember it), to pay for her life to he spared and he would then not feel dishonored and would not kill her.

This is far more civilized than Leviticus. Which apparently Americans are striving to recreate in huge numbers.

 

[Netzach]

well see i disagree with this. a slut is promiscuous and indiscriminate, therefore a doormat can very likely be a slut. like me, i am a slut and a doormat. i do not believe that being a slut has anything whatsoever to do with wanting sex, following one's own will, or being in control. that is why the very narrow mainstream feministic view of slut...the Samantha...irritates me so much. i am a slut, and no longer ashamed of it, but i am not that kind of woman and see nothing admirable in that kind of female sexuality.

Isn't that more a predatory cougar and less a slut?


Let's not even get into what you are if you like to control your sexual destiny. Sorry, but at last count I'm a mythical tentacle beast or a cartoon.

This isn't intended as a dis, and I agree with a lot of things you say, but in this case you seem to think these media precedents are something more than a giant wank-off cartoon for the masses, and that they actually mean a Samantha in real life has any kind of moral support network for being that way. When I actually recognize women with sexuality remotely like mine anywhere in the mainstream I'll definitely let you know.

The femdom revolution is not being televised. In fact it's not even being addressed in Femdom kink.

To me slut depends on passivity. Sluts go with whoever asks them, women who ask are something other. Femme Fatale, Vixen, Hard up and Desperate, I dunno. I don't think this is a personal loathing of the term, it was always more of a "what are you smoking?" kind of reaction to it in my part.

 

[Netzach]

She was an outspoken feminist, but not a man hater - and because of her eloquence and her absence of malice, she had more influence on my views of feminist issues than all the shrieking militant bitches combined.

Yep, that's feminism. Women outraged for no fucking reason at all.

 

[BiBunny]

Yep, that's feminism. Women outraged for no fucking reason at all.

*Snort*

 

[BigBootyKatie]

Yes

I think you are right

 

[JMohegan]

Yep, that's feminism. Women outraged for no fucking reason at all.

Jesus Christ, Netzach. Where the fuck did that come from?

Is this first conversation we've had on the subject of feminism? I think not.