"Vast Right Wing Conspiracy! (Motor-mouthed Monica)

[amicus]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-ap-us-bill-clinton-right-wing,0,2434514.story

Bill Clinton says a vast, right-wing conspiracy that once targeted him is now focusing on President Barack Obama.

~~~

There was no right wing conspiracy then, nor is there now.

What there is, is a great number of Americans who are showing displeasure at the direction Obama is leading the country.

When Clinton lied about Lewinski, it was a matter of purjery, not conspiracy. When most Americans indicate through polling that they are opposed to government run, socialized medicine, it is not a conspiracy, but a common distrust of government programs.

Once upon a time, rare in the world, Americans were taught to question government and distrust government, not worship it as the new trend in Obamaism seems to demand.

Government is the source of problems, not the solution.

Amicus

edited to add after further review: Hilary Clinton, Obama's Secretary of State, is in Hondura's far from the action in the UN or Iran, making no waves in either foreign policy or lending support for Obamacare. Bill Clinton is fronting for the Clinton's and perhaps a Primary run in 2012? Verrrry interesting....

 

[JamesSD]

Bill calling it a "Right Wing Conspiracy" is an overstatement. There are some very rich people who don't want to lose a few bucks giving more health care to poor folk. Those very rich people are using their power and influence to spread lies and disinformation to goad on the masses. A lot of this trickles through the Lying Liars on FOX News (Credit given to Senator Franken for the term), and to a lesser extent through AM talk radio, which used to lead the charge but now just mostly picks up FOX's talking points.

CIt's the same "Usual Suspects" that are going after Obama that went after Bill; it's the nature of politics, that people on the other end of the spectrum will go after you and your policies. Calling it a "conspiracy" is odd, because it seems pretty paper-thin obvious to anyone paying attention that it's just politics as usual. Rich guys don't want their taxes to go up by a couple percentage points, so they lie to the poor to trick them into opposing policies that will benefit them.


-Also, I saw Video of Hillary watching Omar Kadafi's overly long, rambling, unintentionally hilarious UN speech. So she was definitely there for at least part of it, and presumably is attending to previous commitments in Central America.

 

[Boxlicker101]

When Clinton spoke of a vast right wing conspiracy, he was right. The conspirators, the Republican Party, ran some candidates in primary elections in some states and nominated Bob Dole to try to defeat Clinton in 1996, but failed. Four years later, the same conspirators did much the same thing and, this time, they nominated W, who eked out a victory over Al Gore. Once that happened, a vast left wing conspiracy started planning to unseat W in the next election.

It's called politics as usual. Last year, that same left wing conspiracy managed to elect Obama, while the vast right wing conspiracy was trying to get McCain elected.

 

[amicus]

Aside from the religious right that opposes abortion and homosexuality, although there are many churches that have opened their doors to both, Catholics in particular are openly socialist even Marxist in most Central and South American countries.

Placing the onus on the wealthy no longer holds true as Wall Street moguls gave more to Obama and the Democrats in campaign contributions than to McCain and t he Republicans. Wealthy Liberals are content to finance corporate activities and then laugh as they support liberal causes across the board.

I wish there were a 'right wing conspiracy'; it would offer some hope that the nation might return to basic free market principles and away from the agenda of the Left.

I performed talk radio for many years and a program that does not attract listeners does not long stay on the air. The advocates of the left cannot sell their programs or exist without subsidies from far left wealth and corporate sponsorship. Interesting, that...

I still venture to agree with what I heard, that the Clinton's are setting the stage for 2012 by failing to support the current administration.

Amicus

 

[Liar]

Clinton is wrong. A conspiracy is something conducted in secret. There's nothing secret about the agressive politics we see right now, or saw against Clinton for that matter. Or if there is, they're doing a piss poor job at hiding it.

What there is, is a vast right wing offensive. In an everything-but-the-kitchen... strike that, an everything-AND-the-kichen-sink kind of way.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Clinton is wrong. A conspiracy is something conducted in secret. There's nothing secret about the agressive politics we see right now, or saw against Clinton for that matter. Or if there is, they're doing a piss poor job at hiding it.

What there is, is a vast right wing offensive. In an everything-but-the-kitchen... strike that, an everything-AND-the-kichen-sink kind of way.

This is true, but the vast left wing conspiracy operates pretty much the same way. It certainly operated that way against W and against Republican candidates in general. It's called "partisan politics."

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I don't see the "Great Republican Conspiracy" doing anything the Democrats didn't do to Bush. Bush should have been stopped because of his craving for a war no one can win. Obama should be stopped before he bankrupts the country and leads us into a war with Iran. (The Iranians don't worship him, you know.)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Lets sort out 'very rich people' so we're clear about what we're discussing.

The VERY RICH fall into two categories: One group includes the black athletes who uses talent to escape from the ghetto and poverty. The Gift gives them a sweet payday. Or it might be the gal who busts her ass to build a business people want and value. She may have gone penniless for 10 years while the business grew and developed and attracted clients. The 2nd group are the Elites that include George Bush and Nancy Pelosi. They were born wealthy and add to it by stealing more money from others and selling their influence.

 

[JamesSD]

I wish there were a 'right wing conspiracy'; it would offer some hope that the nation might return to basic free market principles and away from the agenda of the Left.

Which party is the party of free market principles again?

As far as I can tell, the current Republican party favors huge government, lots of intervention in people's personal lives (no gambling! we tell you what you can do in bed!), with very little commitment to freedom or liberty. Freedom isn't just "You can do what you want as long as it isn't something I don't like". I would love to see the Republican party return to its small government roots. Given the power evangelical chrisitans have within the party, I don't see that happening soon.

Of course, the Free Market created the current global recession. It was the free market that invented the investment instruments that created the housing bubble, along with a little help from Alan Greenspan and the Bush Administration's free flowing tap of cheap capital for banks and lenders. Obama has done a decent job plugging the holes in the dam and hoping the tsunami subsides soon.

Also, the "free market" theory is largely based on the idea that individuals will always act in their own rational self interest. New research on behavioral economics has cast this idea seriously into doubt. Anyone who has followed the stock market for the past decade has a hard time believing it is strictly a rational beast. There are many instances where free markets work, and work perfectly. But there are also countless cases of monopolies and oligarchies corrupting and perverting markets with relative ease.

I suppose I'm rambling here, which is fitting for this thread, but against my general style. I guess I'll just close with the fact that I like Bill Clinton when he does interviews and sounds like Bill Clinton, and hate him when he sounds like Hillary's Puppet.

 

[penandpaper]

Hillary won't run. Obama will run again. He has many detractors. (I, for one, keep hoping he does at least a few things right; maybe two or three more than Bush - which adds up to five.) But, on the flip side, he still has a lot of supporters. And any incumbent President that has a core group of strong supporters always gets put back up for re-election.

 

[amicus]

"Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps" Movie, "Tortilla Soup?", Hector Elizondo? Anyways...Johnson was a one termer because of Vietnam, Carter a one termer, because he was and is clueless. Reagan was two terms, even after being shot and Clinton...well, the "Contract With America", the Gingrich thing, swept Republican's into office and they were able to moderate Clinton's policies and turn him from a left wing to a moderate left wing President.

Obama has a war that has become his own, Afghanistan, and he is waffling on how to conduct that war. The economy is in a shamble and shows no signs of improving with a Commercial Real Estate collapse in the offing, high unemployment and nationwide resistance to his most cherished planks of socialized medicine and Global warming legislation.

The outcries and outrage, even in mainstream media, continue and grow, almost daily.

Obama could well be a 'one term' President, it has happened to others.

(I sure hope so!)

Ami

 

[Liar]

Obama could well be a 'one term' President, it has happened to others.

Theorietically. I'll give you my prediction no sooner than in the spring of 2012.

It probably will depend on these things:

1. The economy.
2. The effect of health care reform.
3. That war thingy.
4. Comet strike. Sex scandal. Assasination attempt. Something random and significant that just happen to happen.

 

[TE999]

This 'Vast Right Wing Conspiracy' flapdoodle reminds me of the Communist witch hunts in the 50's...everything that went wrong was part of a commie plot...now everything's the fault of the VRWC when the Obamabots screw things up.

It's easier to blame someone or something else for your blunders than admit you made a mistake.

"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your mind it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line and the man comes
And takes you away"

'For What It's Worth' Buffalo Springfield

 

[amicus]

Theorietically. I'll give you my prediction no sooner than in the spring of 2012.

It probably will depend on these things:

1. The economy.
2. The effect of health care reform.
3. That war thingy.
4. Comet strike. Sex scandal. Assasination attempt. Something random and significant that just happen to happen.[/QUOTE]

~~~

Predictions are fraught with danger, ask me, I know. But you are hedging your bet by trying to cover all bases and waiting three years...not much risk there.

Follow the links on RGrahams recent thread and then perhaps you will have an inkling when I say, there is a deep, deep disturbance all across the nation as people become more aware of what socialism really means and how it will affect them.

We are not Europeans, but Americans, tried and true and you really don't have a clue...hey...that rhymes!



ami

 

[amicus]

"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your mind it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line and the man comes
And takes you away"

'For What It's Worth' Buffalo Springfield

I always liked that song and the line, "the man comes and takes you away", never did I think it would apply in this time period as it did in the Hippy Generation...but they were just paranoid

Ami

 

[Boxlicker101]

This 'Vast Right Wing Conspiracy' flapdoodle reminds me of the Communist witch hunts in the 50's...everything that went wrong was part of a commie plot...now everything's the fault of the VRWC when the Obamabots screw things up.

It's easier to blame someone or something else for your blunders than admit you made a mistake.

"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your mind it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line and the man comes
And takes you away"

'For What It's Worth' Buffalo Springfield

It always kind of irks me when I hear the phrase "Communist witch hunts in the fifties" as if it was all just people's imagination. There really was a Communist menace in the fifties although, to be honest, it was the USSR who was the menace, and Communism or Socialism was just what they called their particular form of dictatorship. There were some idiots who actually thought that form of slavery was a good idea, and tried to help bring it about.

BTW, if you don't believe there was a drive for world hegemony, talk to the people from Finland and Poland and Latvia and Lithuania and Estonia and Hungary or many other places in eastern Europe.

 

[TE999]

It always kind of irks me when I hear the phrase "Communist witch hunts in the fifties" as if it was all just people's imagination. There really was a Communist menace in the fifties although, to be honest, it was the USSR who was the menace, and Communism or Socialism was just what they called their particular form of dictatorship. There were some idiots who actually thought that form of slavery was a good idea, and tried to help bring it about.

BTW, if you don't believe there was a drive for world hegemony, talk to the people from Finland and Poland and Latvia and Lithuania and Estonia and Hungary or many other places in eastern Europe.

There were beaucoup commies and comsymps running around here in the 50's, no question. There were spies aplenty and an American Communist Party (CPUSA)headed by Earl Browder, among others. The spies did a lot of damage, the CPUSA was an irritant, nothing more.

I was referring more to the Commieplot hysteria whipped up by the likes of Joe McCarthy, The John Birch Society, J. Edgar Hoover, et al.

Blacklisting people for writing movie scripts, magazine articles and books sympathetic to the Soviets back when we were allies with Russia against the Nazis was idiotic. Requiring 'loyalty oaths' to be signed as a condition of employment was an abridgement of peoples civil rights. Between the Red Scare and the threat of nuclear war, it was a classic case of mob hysteria; but once McCarthy was in disgrace, things cooled down considerably.

 

[Boxlicker101]

There were beaucoup commies and comsymps running around here in the 50's, no question. There were spies aplenty and an American Communist Party (CPUSA)headed by Earl Browder, among others. The spies did a lot of damage, the CPUSA was an irritant, nothing more.

I was referring more to the Commieplot hysteria whipped up by the likes of Joe McCarthy, The John Birch Society, J. Edgar Hoover, et al.

Blacklisting people for writing movie scripts, magazine articles and books sympathetic to the Soviets back when we were allies with Russia against the Nazis was idiotic. Requiring 'loyalty oaths' to be signed as a condition of employment was an abridgement of peoples civil rights. Between the Red Scare and the threat of nuclear war, it was a classic case of mob hysteria; but once McCarthy was in disgrace, things cooled down considerably.

Among other things, the CPUSA operated in support for the spies, so they were more than just an irritant. Excesses were committed, but it wasn't strictly hysteria. There really was a menace and, if steps hadn'y been taken to counter it, I would now be in the California Soviet Socialist Republic, except that I wouldn't be writing on my computer because they wouldn't have been invented.

Loyalty oaths are still required for quite a few jobs.

 

[amicus]

Good points all...I would add to that in that Marxism has been a haven for intellectuals world wide as far back as the twenties and thirties.

Intellectuals seldom work with their hands, they use their minds and mental abilities to sustain themselves. There was and remains, a huge attraction to a philosopical apparatus that would eliminate the avarice and greed and acquisitive nature of man. An economic system that does not involve the competition that people exercise when they seek to acquire; a society based on the 'needs' of people not what they have acquired.

It remains the 'Siren's Song' of seduction for those who envision a 'perfect world', with all living in harmony and cooperation.

It wasn't until Communism put the practices of socialism to work that people began to realize that the total absence of individual merit and responsibility, rewards for competence and innovation, began to eat away at the innards of such a society.

Aside from Christianity, one is hard pressed to find another 'ism' as destructive of human values as is socialism.

One would have thought after the obscene and inhumane examples offered up by socialism that people would have learned by now not to trust any portion of it.

I guess not.

Amicus...

 

[Huckleman2000]

You people are freakin' nuts. Really.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Hillary won't run. Obama will run again. He has many detractors. (I, for one, keep hoping he does at least a few things right; maybe two or three more than Bush - which adds up to five.) But, on the flip side, he still has a lot of supporters. And any incumbent President that has a core group of strong supporters always gets put back up for re-election.

Teddy Kennedy opposed Carter in 1980, and Bobby Kennedy opposed Johnson in 1968. Hillary will go after Obama if she smells blood in the water.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I was flipping through the channels last night at 2 AM and happened to catch Travis Smiley on OPB. He had an interview with Michael Moore. It will be broadcast again tonight. It was interesting.

Now I don't really like Michael Moore, but I had to agree with his remarks about Obama. Especially when he said, "The banks and large investment firms are doing well, so Obama is telling us the recession of coming to a close. But the little guy on the street still doesn't have a job and is losing his home. What does that tell you?" (Paraphrased)

 

[xssve]

Lets sort out 'very rich people' so we're clear about what we're discussing.

The VERY RICH fall into two categories: One group includes the black athletes who uses talent to escape from the ghetto and poverty. The Gift gives them a sweet payday. Or it might be the gal who busts her ass to build a business people want and value. She may have gone penniless for 10 years while the business grew and developed and attracted clients. The 2nd group are the Elites that include George Bush and Nancy Pelosi. They were born wealthy and add to it by stealing more money from others and selling their influence.

True, that would be the difference between the top 1% of taxpayers, and the top 1/2 of 1%, and the difference between them is comparable to the difference between the top 20% quintile and the bottom 80%. They have been called the "invisible rich" because the IRS only break it down to the top 1%, and there are no statistics available to tell what divisions exist within the top 1%.

Naturally, when republicans start beating their breasts about "punishing the wealthy" they trot out somebody in the bottom half of 1%, whom whatever policy they happen to be pushing, eliminating inheritance taxes for example, probably won't significantly affect any more than anybody else.

Lying in this manner, an attempt to device the public, fits the definition of conspiracy.

I don't believe Pelosi is in the top half of 1%.

 

[Boxlicker101]

True, that would be the difference between the top 1% of taxpayers, and the top 1/2 of 1%, and the difference between them is comparable to the difference between the top 20% quintile and the bottom 80%. They have been called the "invisible rich" because the IRS only break it down to the top 1%, and there are no statistics available to tell what divisions exist within the top 1%.

Naturally, when republicans start beating their breasts about "punishing the wealthy" they trot out somebody in the bottom half of 1%, whom whatever policy they happen to be pushing, eliminating inheritance taxes for example, probably won't significantly affect any more than anybody else.

Lying in this manner, an attempt to device the public, fits the definition of conspiracy.

I don't believe Pelosi is in the top half of 1%.

She and her family might be. This is from Wikipedia:

The Pelosi family has a net worth of nearly $19 million as of 2007, largely from investments. In addition to their large portfolio of jointly owned San Francisco Bay Area real estate, the couple also owns a vineyard in St. Helena, California, valued between $5 million to $25 million. Pelosi's husband also owns stock, including $5 million in Apple Computer. Pelosi continues to be among the richest members of Congress.[8]

She probably is in the top one percent. In any event, she is very rich, comes from a politically active family and has never held a job in her life, except in politics.