When will Gay marriage be Nationallly legal in the US?

[JamesSD]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. It's clearly not a case of "if" but "when". Among folks 35 and under gay marriage is supported, and that threshold has proceeded along as my generation gets older. People over 65 are the biggest opponents of gay marriage, and those opponents keep getting older and won't be around forever. Many states already recognize gay marriage, either by popular referendum or by court/legislative order.

Coupled with the acceptance of homosexuality in the younger generation, the US is becoming a much less christian nation. In general people are also leaving more socially conservative branches for more permissive, "modern" branches.

California will reverse Prop 8 in 2012, and won't look back. By then, I imagine all the "blue" and most of the "purple" states will have their own gay marriages, along with some of the more libertarian western states like Montana.

I'm going to say somewhere between 2012-2016 the National Republican party will have to back down from the issue. At some point there will be a supreme court case forcing the hold-out states to recognize gay marriages from other states, and from there it will be a done deal.

Thoughts?

 

[vrosej10]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. It's clearly not a case of "if" but "when". Among folks 35 and under gay marriage is supported, and that threshold has proceeded along as my generation gets older. People over 65 are the biggest opponents of gay marriage, and those opponents keep getting older and won't be around forever. Many states already recognize gay marriage, either by popular referendum or by court/legislative order.

Coupled with the acceptance of homosexuality in the younger generation, the US is becoming a much less christian nation. In general people are also leaving more socially conservative branches for more permissive, "modern" branches.

California will reverse Prop 8 in 2012, and won't look back. By then, I imagine all the "blue" and most of the "purple" states will have their own gay marriages, along with some of the more libertarian western states like Montana.

I'm going to say somewhere between 2012-2016 the National Republican party will have to back down from the issue. At some point there will be a supreme court case forcing the hold-out states to recognize gay marriages from other states, and from there it will be a done deal.

Thoughts?

I can only hope soon dude. I thought Aussie might have manned up recently and did it, but they succumbed to the religious right AGAIN. Fuck a duck. What happen to separation of religion and state? Being homosexual is legal, gay marriage should be legal. Any less and we are breaching the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

 

[Fantasies_only]

Considering the black/white issue was an ongoing process well until the late 90s, I don't think gay marriage will happen until at least 8098.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It wont happen.

The issue is political rather than civil rights. Gays play for the Democrat team, and there is zero incentives for the GOP to do the right thing. And gays arent in any mood to make trades with the conservatives. Politics is all about horse-trading.

Except for the Usual Suspects, most Americans become conservative as they age. Its inevitable because traditional practices work and progressive ideas mostly fail. We soon discover that bureaucrats dont give a shit if your check is late or if they fuck you out of your benefits. If your boss screws you, you can work someplace else. Your car is more dependable than the city bus.

Plus Obama and Pelosi are wearing out the patience of most Americans. More and more Obama looks like a con-man, and Pelosi comes across as an unplugged asshat. So they'll likley be toast in 2010.

 

[cloudy]

Considering the black/white issue was an ongoing process well until the late 90s.

Wrong.

Marriage between races has been legal in all 50 states since 1967.

There's this thing called Google - learn to use it.

 

[Safe_Bet]

It wont happen.

...there is zero incentives for the GOP to do the right thing. ...

OMG, Jimmie Blow Job! They are going to take away your Homophobe Club membership card!

 

[lance gt]

The States will make same sex marriage legal once they see how much revenue they're losing to Canada. The States that are opposed now will see their coffers shrinking as couples go elsewhere to declare their love. Money is everything in politics. I can't state the facts of it, but Canada has made a size-able amount of revenue from the weddings and receptions that happen here. The same will happen to legalizing pot. Once the dollar value in taxation is worked out, every state will be clamouring for it. The time has come for a change, and change it will happen, or else,:caning:

 

[AngeloMichael]

It wont happen.

The issue is political rather than civil rights. Gays play for the Democrat team, and there is zero incentives for the GOP to do the right thing. And gays arent in any mood to make trades with the conservatives. Politics is all about horse-trading.

Except for the Usual Suspects, most Americans become conservative as they age. Its inevitable because traditional practices work and progressive ideas mostly fail. We soon discover that bureaucrats dont give a shit if your check is late or if they fuck you out of your benefits. If your boss screws you, you can work someplace else. Your car is more dependable than the city bus.

Plus Obama and Pelosi are wearing out the patience of most Americans. More and more Obama looks like a con-man, and Pelosi comes across as an unplugged asshat. So they'll likley be toast in 2010.

While it's true that many Americans do become conservative as they grow older, usually it's fiscally conservative, those who were socially liberal to begin with keep that streak and if anything it becomes stronger as they age and become more secure with who they are as a person.

So, while they may switch to voting for Republican condidates on ballets, when you have straight "yes" or "no" situations like Prop 8 in CA, then even the former liberal/new conservatives will vote in favor for issues like gay marriage.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

OMG, Jimmie Blow Job! They are going to take away your Homophobe Club membership card!

Pish posh. When I'm your Fascist Leader you'll be applying your writing talent to creating romantic boy-girl greeting cards for Hallmark.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

While it's true that many Americans do become conservative as they grow older, usually it's fiscally conservative, those who were socially liberal to begin with keep that streak and if anything it becomes stronger as they age and become more secure with who they are as a person.

So, while they may switch to voting for Republican condidates on ballets, when you have straight "yes" or "no" situations like Prop 8 in CA, then even the former liberal/new conservatives will vote in favor for issues like gay marriage.

Except voters nullified Prop 8. Remember!

I went thru the pathetic liberal larval stage in the 70s. I seriously believed ghetto bunnies could become faux whites. I had my liberal head up my ass so far even my liberal friends said ENOUGH! What changed my mind was the union I belonged to.

The union leadership were thieves and slave-traders who looted our pension fund and saddled us with every assessment and dues they could imagine. My vacation and medical came out of my own pocket. I eventually took a non-union job where the owners paid me as much as the union ever did, they paid for vacation & medical and threw in paid sick-time....without any dues! And when I left them I got a check for my share of the pension plan.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

There is nothing inherently Christian about homophobia. The church has recorded rites for same sex couples going clear back into the Seventh Century. These rites were suppressed when an unexplained wave of homophobia hit the church in the dark days of the accursed Fourteenth Century. You know, the one when the Black Death came along? Modern Anti-Gay Fundamentalism is a heresy based on inaccurate translation from the Greek and the sex-obsessed thinking of the Nineteenth Century. St. Paul was far more concerned with the worship of false gods than he was with blow-jobs, that being rather a more important issue, hmm?

It's one that hasn't gone away, BTW. Mammon still rules Wall Street.

It must be a serious embarrassment to the RCC that four of their most important martyrs from the beginning of the church were Saints Serge and Bacchus and Saints Perpetua and Felicitas, a male and female same sex couple, respectively.

 

[AngeloMichael]

Except voters nullified Prop 8. Remember!

I went thru the pathetic liberal larval stage in the 70s. I seriously believed ghetto bunnies could become faux whites. I had my liberal head up my ass so far even my liberal friends said ENOUGH! What changed my mind was the union I belonged to.

The union leadership were thieves and slave-traders who looted our pension fund and saddled us with every assessment and dues they could imagine. My vacation and medical came out of my own pocket. I eventually took a non-union job where the owners paid me as much as the union ever did, they paid for vacation & medical and threw in paid sick-time....without any dues! And when I left them I got a check for my share of the pension plan.

Voters nullified Prop 8 because we're still dealing with a generation of voters opposed to gay marriage, it won't be so in the near future. I agree with JamesSD's assessment that gay marriage will become acceptable as the younger generation now matures into the middle-agers and elders of the future.

However, I also see this generation becoming fiscally conservative as well when those that find jobs/careers and become financially secure. They will vote for the candidates that promise lower taxes, less regulation, and smaller government but also better infrastructure (i.e. fixing the potholes), domestic security (more cops on the street), and a strong national defense. Like always, doesn't matter if what they want is paradoxical, they'll vote for the candidates that promise all this and much of it is the baileywick of classic conservatism.

Conservative converts learn to put up with Republican candidates that fire up their base with promises of prayer in school, creationism taught alongside evolution, and protecting the institution of marriage as long as they also deliver on the fiscal issues, if they don't then you see election cycles like 2006 and 2008.

But on individual "yes" or "no" issues like Prop 8 not only will they still hold onto the ideas they were exposed to growing up in this day and age (it's ok to be gay or lesbian, nothing wrong with gay marriage) they will also get a secret delight out of knocking some of the air out of the fundies that they have to put up with in regards to electing polititicans.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AM

If your theory was plausible America would already be a socialist paradise; homosexuality ceased to be a psychiatric disorder 30 years ago. And almost no one lives in VW vans these days.

I'm betting that Obama-Pelosi gut the economy and most of us will be too busy trying to make money to fret about gay wedding wishes.

SAFE-BET will remain a shack-up.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Can we make a distinction here. Marriage is so tied up with religion - Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Rastafarian, etc - that we need a new secular institution to set the parameters for a public commitment to another person.

As has been gradually happening, leave marriage to the committed and find a new way of pledging 'troth', belonging to a partner, in an open way.

I go for a Federal concept of Mutual Union. Beyond and above any quasi-religico stuff imposed by 'interested' parties - usually religious - we need to cement the ability for any partners to form a legal bond. That includes two aged sisters wanting to establish a mutual bond.

 

[AngeloMichael]

AM

If your theory was plausible America would already be a socialist paradise; homosexuality ceased to be a psychiatric disorder 30 years ago. And almost no one lives in VW vans these days.

I'm betting that Obama-Pelosi gut the economy and most of us will be too busy trying to make money to fret about gay wedding wishes.

SAFE-BET will remain a shack-up.

Time will tell. One of the great gauges is television. In 1968 an episode of "Star Trek" was banned in some affilliates in the south because Captain Kirk (fake) kissed Uhura. Now we have a President who is the product of an interracial marriage.

In the early 90's shows like Roseanne were banned in some markets becasue she kissed a woman and Ellen's "coming out" episode was banned. Then you get a series like "Will and Grace' on network television that runs for 8 years without anyone saying boo.

Granted that it's in a 2 steps forward-one step back (sometimes 1 step forward and 2 back but more often the other way) but there's an eventual evolution to society and it's pretty plain to see.

 

[argh654]

Coupled with the acceptance of homosexuality in the younger generation, the US is becoming a much less christian nation.

I believe that "christian" should not be confused "organized, roman catholic derived practice of religion". Homosexuality and Christianity go together without issues. There is nothing in the bible about it. Early Christians also had no problems.
If you trace the history of this issue back, you will see the purely monetary reasons behind it. Read your history books, especially the tie from around 1022 - 1187. You outlaw marriages for priests so that their belongings go to the church. Except where they had a homosexual relationship. Well, easily fixed, we just claim homosexuality is of the devil!

I have a few homosexual friends and none of them every hit on me or made negative comments about my wife. They are hard working, law-abiding citizens and are ready to defend the constitution against the efforts of Obama and Pelosi. I prefer them over most other people I've met simply because they have the right ideas for the country and simply do what they feel is best. Who am I to tell them they can't do things in their bedroom just because I wouldn't do them?

Peter.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Can we make a distinction here. Marriage is so tied up with religion - Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Rastafarian, etc - that we need a new secular institution to set the parameters for a public commitment to another person.

As has been gradually happening, leave marriage to the committed and find a new way of pledging 'troth', belonging to a partner, in an open way.

I go for a Federal concept of Mutual Union. Beyond and above any quasi-religico stuff imposed by 'interested' parties - usually religious - we need to cement the ability for any partners to form a legal bond. That includes two aged sisters wanting to establish a mutual bond.

What you allude to is POWER OF ATTORNEY. Give your partner power of attorney and make them your executor. Its a minor inconvenience to dissolve and about as legal as marriage.

But the real issue is your self-esteem. You wanna be as socially esteemed as male-female couples. Aint gonna happen.

 

[JamesSD]

Well, I stand by my thesis that shifting demographic trends will turn anti-gay marriage into a poison pill that Republican candidates in Blue and Purple states will have to back down from if they want any hope of not becoming the permanent minority party. The Republican party has historically been extremely good at changing its stripes to suit changes in how the wind blows; Race is an excellent example, as there has been a strong push within the Republican party to get as much racial diversity on paper as possible, where 20 years ago they would have asked "why bother?"

I agree with the assessment that people become more fiscally conservative as they age, but tend to keep their social values. There also has definitely been a trend in the past 20 years of people either leaving religion or moving to a more liberal sect as they get older. It's much more rare for someone to convert to a more conservative branch.

 

[Epmd607]

that California thing will probably be overturned before 2012, then again, the gays better hope so cuz the world is gonna end in 2012 says the history channel like every other day. I live in Upstate ny and I'm not even sure if it's legal or not. The mayor says he's gonna perform civil unions or whatever up here, people were mad for like a week. We're still in the recession from the early 90's pretty much, people don't even know about iphones and mobile internet up here. My buddy had some sort of gay marriage, he married this dude that was like 15 years older. Candles were lit, that's what I remember about that. I figure gays will be able to marry like full on tax form kinda stuff by 2013, like some federal deal.

Actually, if you wanna think about something that'll blow your hair back. The Armed forces will recognize gay marriages/unions before every state in the union does, that's pretty much standard operating procedure. It'll go from don't ask/tell right to catholic chaplains marrying dudes, yeah maybe not catholic, but the methodist and lutheran and all them.

 

[penandpaper]

It will happen as soon as the younger generation (10-20 years of age) come into power. It's the way things will be, no qualms about it. It's just a matter of changing norms, which, in this case, has already been done for them.

 

[Powertone]

It will happen as soon as the younger generation (10-20 years of age) come into power. It's the way things will be, no qualms about it. It's just a matter of changing norms, which, in this case, has already been done for them.

yeah...all ya gotta do is appoint an activist State or US Supreme Court to throw-out the results of ballot issues where voters overwhelmingly voted against gay marriage...
in other words elect only DEM Governors and Presidents who do the appointing___

 

[Epmd607]

yeah...all ya gotta do is appoint an activist State or US Supreme Court to throw-out the results of ballot issues where voters overwhelmingly voted against gay marriage...
in other words elect only DEM Governors and Presidents who do the appointing___

That's why we don't live in a democracy, Powerbone. If we had to vote on everything there wouldn't be electricity, running water, paved roads, black people, Ameri Indians... What the majority wants is usually brutal and inhumane for the rest of the population.

 

[lance gt]

If marriage is nothing more than a legal contract for some, a religious ceremony for others and show of love for more yet again, the idea of two people of the same sex wanting to get married, goes along with three people or more wanting to get married. It's only a telling to the world that these people share in a union of their choosing and honour a commitment together. Before marriage, two people did whatever they wanted, because there were no guidelines set out by somebody, so everything was cool. Then somebody gets up on the wrong side of a blow job and declares it immoral and shall not be done. Same as more than one spouse. If a woman can find two guys, or a man and another woman to be together with and it's what they want, why not? The biblio-meaning of marriage as union, was more along the lines of showing ownership of that woman as your own. Women were treated as equal with the animals the men raised. They marked their animals to show ownership, so a ring was used(How nice) to show possession of their woman. Many cultures still have a harem to show wealth. Let whoever be with whoever else they want to be with and leave them alone. Instead of bitching and fighting, let's marry the whole world together and be done with it. One big 'I Do' ceremony and everyone can just get down to fucking everyone else legally and happily ever after. No cheating or divorcing, just move in somewhere else with one of billions of other women or men to choose from. Sounds like a plan Stan, let's get right on it!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LANCE

Because the majority sez NO. Pretty simple concept.

 

[lance gt]

LANCE

Because the majority sez NO. Pretty simple concept.

And the majority is wrong. plain and simple. Gonna have to change it James. Too many people want what they want and they're going to get it whether you like it or not. They have their life and you have yours, can't tell them, what they can't tell you. Let it happen and relax. Just think James, every woman out there is your wife, she either loves you or hates you. You'll either be getting laid lots, or you'll be back to jerking off, because you fucked up and said dumb guy shit to them.