Million-Word Story, Pls Send Help

[CopperSkink]

The deal is that after eight or so years of Lit, I finally decided to write my own story based on the tastes I developed over the years (unfortunately I never developed a taste for spelling).
I came up with a plan for a small, five-part series, but before I knew it, it exploded into a five act series, each act having five parts, and each part counting some fifteen-thousand words or so. Then it got worse. Having done everything I could with my characters, I leveled them up, got them pregnant, and skipped forward about twenty years into the future so I could put the kids through the same horror, and on it went, a million some-odd words later (not that I've counted), and five generations worth.

What I'm looking for is an editor who can look at the big picture and give me advice as to how to make the entire story fit together better for the benefit of the listeners. If I'm missing something important, then I want to know. If I took it for granted that I included a major plot point when it's still stuck in my head, then tell me.

I have timelines and character sheets to make the job easier on anyone who dare, and I take critisism rather well.

As for the story itself, it tends to change according to what time it is or who's talking.
In the beginning, seven characters start out, with the primary two being a guy and a girl dating while going to collage, the guy being a boxer and the girl being a big wig in student government. Things get whacky when the girl's younger sister starts sticking her nose into their business. As time goes on, the seven become nine, and all nine interract with one-another in every way I could come up with until my fingers hurt. In total, I have twenty-five official cannon stories of this first generation with several other "B-sides".

The second generation has ten brats running around, all children of the original nine. I focus on five of the ten, two pairs falling in love with a fifth wheel gumming up the works. This is my special non-erotic section where the love of the story itself takes precidence over sex.

The third generation brings us to a new facility built by the original nine and the subsequent ten, a place where they can come together to teach their children, all fourteen of them, along with any number of orphans that need something to do with their lives as they wait to be adopted. This is where it gets really hectic, people. This time around I try to give everyone his or her own spotlight whether or not any pair or triple gets a showcase.

The fourth generation is where everything comes unglued and I lose count of how many characters I have, mostly because of "Bad Sam," who sleeps with every woman that ever touched his wife's life for the simple reason that she accused him of cheating on her from the beginning. Besides that, I use the various flocks of characters as vehicles to explore varying concepts, fetishes, and situations I've been mulling over for the past two years.

The fifth generation is perhaps the most excellent. This is when I stop trying to be so concrete and start having fun. After sixty years of concrete fiction, I start getting into science fiction. I.e., aliens invade. Twice. Much to the tune of Starship Troopers (the first time around) and UFO: Alien Invasion (the second time, if it wasn't painfully obvious already). Although war isn't the only thing that happens, it causes the universe I've made in my mind to change drastically, allowing civilization to propel itself into Space, which is something I've been keen on doing. After all, who doesn't like Cowboy Bebop?

The sixth generation: Imagine... wtf is a good movie... what's that one with Arnold Schwartzisthingy? The one where he "Gets his ass to Mars..." Anyway, the wars are over and Mankind has finally united in its effort to get the heck off of Earth.

After that, I skip forward a hundred years so I can get my Cowboy Bebop thing going on.

So, there it is. I rely heavily on incest if only to keep things interesting for the readers (and myself), and I get into a wide spectrum of fetishes as well as writing styles and a million other things. Interested? Call me on my Bat Phone.

Personal messages are fine too, I suppose...

 

[Epmd607]

Have you written a porno Roots or erotic War and Peace?

I don't know that anyone will be interested in editing your story when you describe the massive amount of work it will entail. When it comes down to it, why are you writing your story and who are you writing it for? If it's for others to enjoy you're going to want to break it up into multiple stories that probably don't go longer than five literotica pages each. Generational stories are usually rubbish, you can't properly develop a group of characters then do the same thing for the next generation, it gets too repetitive since it's within the same story frame.

I haven't checked out your page, have you submitted anything yet? I'd advise submitting shorter stories to see if anyone's interested in what you're up to, because it'll bum you out if you do all this work on one massive story and you get 2000 views and 13 votes over a year.

Best of luck, I like when people go for massive stories, it's just I don't usually have the patience to read an erotic story that's 30, 40, 50 literotica pages long. Some have found success using the same characters in multiple stories within the same sort of timeline.

 

[CopperSkink]

Thank you very much for your input.

No, Roots was quite focused from generation to generation and I understand War and Peace took place over a single day despite its raw size. While it seems like a bit much, my story, when it comes down to it, is composed of many of its own start-to-finish parts, but each part is part of the whole.

I can't guarantee the quality of my story without having posted anything of it, but it shouldn't dissapoint by any means, whether the reader enjoys a short few pages filled with sex or page after page of debachery.

One of the things that's taking me so long is to make sure each of these stories does its best to stand on its own where possible so that you're not forced to start at the very beginning in order to enjoy scene one hundred chapters later.

I have every confidence that this story will deliver, but only if I can combine my effort with the thoughts and opinions of my fellow readers and writers who let me know what it needs to rise higher than toilet paper.

 

[poppy_cock]

I suspect Epmd is correct in saying that you probably won't get many takers for this. It sounds like much too large an endeavour. Most of us here have day jobs or are writing ourselves, LOL.

I wrote epics kinda like the one you're describing when I was a kid (although without the sex, obviously), ones where my original characters had sprogs of their own and their sprogs had sprogs, etc. I learnt a lot writing them. One of the reasons I write the way I do today is because of those early characters and that early practice at developing plots etc. But I wouldn't dream of putting any of it out there for anyone else to see, LOL. It sucked, bigtime.

Now you don't appear to be lacking in modesty and who knows, maybe your ongoing saga-thon is sheer brilliance and I'm passing up the chance of a lifetime. But I think in order to call upon the editors here, you're gonna have to do some editing yourself. You need to decide where the best bits are. It's unrealistic to expect that you might throw that over to someone else to decide.

Is there a chance that you could post a 200 word excerpt here? Maybe seeing a short snippet of your work might tempt someone to bite...

 

[Darkniciad]

The odds of getting someone to take on such a massive task are pretty slim. Someone is going to have to fall in love with the storyline and characters -- and then you're risking the possibility that they'll be too into the story to catch all the bits that need edited.

My first series posted here at Lit is a half-million words, but I self-edited it the first time. When I started posting shorter, companion stories in the world, I went searching for an editor for those. After he got used to the world and characters, I took what I learned from the process, edited the epic again, a chunk at a time, and then sent the chunks to him over the course of several months.

I also had the advantage of several loyal, but critical readers who pointed out places where I'd flubbed up in the original posting. I fixed those in the re-edit before my editor had to deal with them. Without those additional set of eyes, there's no way my editor would have caught some of the inconsistencies and transpositions in chunks, even though they were one right after another in sequence. Reason being, some of the flubs crossed over into the shorter stories, and only reading everything in a marathon, as those readers did, was enough to make them stand out.

 

[Epmd607]

Yeah, check out Darknciad's story page, you sound like you want to do something similar as he has. Maybe go with the best part of your story that has something to do with the erotic and post that, see how people react then come back here. You can always delete something that you've submitted and re-submit later. Editors sometimes contact new story writers when they're writing really fantastic stories but look like they could use technical help.

 

[Darkniciad]

My best suggestion at this point is this:

Open up book one, chapter one. Change the font face and size to something readable, but vastly different than what you usually write in ( I write in Times New Roman 14 pt., and do this in Courier 16 pt. )

Read through the story, changing each new document into the new typeface as you open it. With any luck, it's been long enough since you started that you won't remember the whole thing nearly word for word, which is how you miss a lot of errors when you try to edit something too soon after finishing it.

The new typeface will also cause things to jump out at you that would have otherwise slipped past. You're used to seeing the documents one way, and your eyes see what's supposed to be there, as opposed to what is.

Keep reading through book one until you finish it. With any luck, you'll have caught numerous grammar/spelling/plot goofs along the way and fixed them.

Now, here's where you have a choice. You can either move ahead with launching book one of your story, or continue on to ensure that there aren't any inconsistent plot/character elements in the later books. Naturally, the second option is the best. So long as your eyes don't start glazing over, you will have a better chance of remembering the past while reading new chapters in a marathon.

If you decide to go on, repeat the same process for all the books, until you've ironed out everything that you can. Naturally, run them all through spell-check, and a "grain of salt" grammar check as well. Grammar checking in word processors requires you to know when it's giving you stupid suggestions *laugh* This is especially true in erotica, where words like "fuck," "cock," "come," and "cum" can make the thing choke in epic ways.

With everything ironed out, you can try to farm out the first chunk of your story to an editor. One step, one piece at a time. The full brunt of what you have sitting, waiting for another set of eyes, is going to be too daunting for most people to consider. Don't necessarily expect to have one person edit the whole thing, although that's naturally ideal. Your goal at this point is to get text as clean as possible under the circumstances. This is an amateur site, after all. You're not expected to be a Pulitzer Prize winner -- just competent.

From that first chunk, see if you have any common grammar mistakes that need fixed throughout the story. Before you send any further chunks out, make it a point to correct occurances of that grammar quirk. It will keep your editor from screaming, and increase the likliehood of having the same person work on the story again. Same thing if a new quirk pops up in chunk two. Keep stamping those out, so the copy gets cleaner every time.

Once you have book one fully edited, launch it to the site. I would suggest that your chapters be around 2-3 Lit pages long. Any longer, and many people will skip it. Any shorter, and many will complain about too-short chapters. They don't all have to conform to any specific length, but try to use the natural breaks in the storyline to keep something around the range that I just suggested. A short one or a long one here and there shouldn't be a deal breaker.

That's not set in stone, of course. If the flow of the story requires something different, then do it. My "chapters" of Danica are 6-7 Lit pages long. I wrote them at that pacing, and couldn't figure out better ways to break them up at the time ( I've since found some, but that would make the story 3x the number of chapters, so I left it )

From there, hope that you'll have some constructive feedback from readers that can help you catch errors. Don't fall into the trap of letting them dictate the story to you ( not so easy when it's finished, but anyway... ) but if something they suggest really sings to you, you might just give it a whirl.

If the editor search comes up zip, then you might try biting the bullet and trusting your own self-review skills. Without seeing any of the existing text, I don't know whether to recommend this or not. I did it, but I'm surprised that I wasn't laughed off the site for some of the quirks in mine. Seven Lit pages scaring away most readers probably helped with that *laugh*

Then, maybe reader feedback can help you iron out things, and you might even have someone offer to edit for you.

Just a few suggestions and possibilities. Hope it can help you get your story out there.

 

[CopperSkink]

All very true. I don't honestly expect one person to read this whole thing much less edit it. I try to get most of it done myelf so tht any helper shouldn't need to do more than give it a cursury once-over. What I'm really looking for is missing plot points, if I'm jumping from one thing to the next while leaving important issues unfinished, things like that.
In my optimistic world I would have a crack squad of five people going over the best of the best to make sure they're worth the effort I put into writing the f'king things, while the smaller chapters can fall by the wayside, having little more to do than carry characters into new plot twists for bigger pictures.

What I don't want is to dump the whole book into someone's lap with a note that says, "Edit, slave." That's fine for me when I edit, but it's not something I care to push on others.

But yes, I'm aware that the biggest issue is sheer size. Size over-all and size per capita. Me? I've made peace with it. As I said in the beginning, after eight years of reading, I decided to write something to my personal tastes, and part of that is recycling characters so that I don't lose all the work I put into them. I don't expect everyone to love this work or even be bothered to read through the meaty chapters, but I believe that somewhere out there are two or three people that will really enjoy it.

But hey, I'd consider myself a sucessful author if only one person said he liked it.

Thank you all again for your constructive critisism and for not making fun of my spelling.

 

[CWatson]

The 5-person editing team actually does seem like a good idea. As you've said, it's a huge work load, so dividing it into manageable chunks is step one.

I'm going to be a bigot here, but please bear with me: whenever I see a story that's "sprawling" or "luxuriant" that way, I assume that the more accurate adjective is "masturbatory"--as in, The Writer was just so enamored with his characters and plots and with his own brilliance that he just couldn't stand to see it end, he just had to keep going... even if he had already passed the point where it stopped being interesting to anyone but him. SOL has the main share: "Robin" by John Smith is 129 chapters and still going; Frank Downey--one of my favorite authors--has "Dance of a Lifetime" at 170. "Deja Vu Ascendency" by AscendingAuthor has 435. When I see something that's this long, I just skip it entirely. To my mind, once you get past a certain length, the quality of the story is going to drop off, because no one, no one, is capable of sustained quality for such a long period of time.

Now, again, this is me being prejudiced: since I don't read those stories, I can't tell you the truth of them one way or the other. (Well, except "DoaL". And, yes, I do think it the most boring story in Frank's catalogue.) Additionally, you could argue that I'm guilty of doing the same thing myself, and I might not be able to defend myself.

But the simple fact is that human beings are only capable of producing XX amount of quality per word. That's why we have editors: to remove some of those words and thus increase the quality-to-story ratio. As an example: an author on SOL, Ken Randall--he's very good, I highly recommend him--posted the first draft of his story "Charlotte's Movie". It was 94 chapters including the prologue and epilogue, and at the moment it's the 5th-highest-rated story on the site. Later he posted an edited-down version which is more streamlined and involves less extraneous sex. It is 45 chapters. 700 pages instead of 1300. It is less than half its previous length--and a better story, overall, because of its brevity.

Every story can be compressed. And, while it can be hard to be objective on a story, especially one you just finished, compression--judicious hack-and-slash--is something you need to do. You cannot just write as a writer; you must also write as a reader, and be aware of how The Reader is likely to respond. And sometimes that means being ruthless--nay, brutal--to yourself. As Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch put it:

"Whenever you feel an impulse to perpetrate a piece of exceptionally fine writing, obey it--wholeheartedly--and delete it before sending your manuscript to press. Murder your darlings."

Your story is large. Is it large because it has to be, or because you couldn't bear to make it shorter? There is nothing wrong with the latter; getting caught up in the sheer joy of creation is what we, as writers, live for. It means, furthermore, that you have the gift--that certain indefinable something that sets the real writers apart from the phonies or the imitations or the well-intentioned-but-hapless bumblers. It means that you, sir, are a writer. Congratulations. You made it.

But, now that you're one of us, that means you also have to act like one of us.

If it was creative drunkenness, give yourself some time--two months, six months, a year--and then come back to it. You'll find your red pen far less distasteful after a bit of distance has set in. It's easier to be heartless to something that's less yourself. And besides, you won't care: you'll be scribbling out sentences, paragraphs, whole chapters, with delight! Because doing so makes the story better. And, because you're a bona-fide Real Writer, making the story better makes you happy. (Or maybe that's what makes you a Real Writer. It's all very circular. If you ever figure it out, drop me a line. )

 

[Epmd607]

'Extraneous sex' in a porno story? I didn't think it was possible. Really, most people like a build up to the actual sex act, literate character development and all that, but most of us come here for the well-written description of said act. One of my favorite stories is pretty much thirty three pages of sex involving three people, there's really nothing to it, maybe I'm just a blockhead.

 

[Darkniciad]

It's all a matter of the plot to screwing ratio. If the story is primarily a stroker and unapologetic about it, then it's hard to have something extraneous. The more plot you put in there, the more you have to make the sex fit into the story and have some point other than jerk-off material.

'Extraneous sex' in a porno story? I didn't think it was possible. Really, most people like a build up to the actual sex act, literate character development and all that, but most of us come here for the well-written description of said act. One of my favorite stories is pretty much thirty three pages of sex involving three people, there's really nothing to it, maybe I'm just a blockhead.

 

[CopperSkink]

That "33 pages" bit sounds like SIB-Factor's series. Thirty-odd chapters, ten percent plot, ninty percent sex. I loved it.

I feel like I'm representing myself incorrectly when I say, "I've got a big-ass story." It's not to say that it's, "This Guy and His Horse," chapters 1-733, it's more like, "This Guy and His Horse," 1-4, then, "His Girlfriend Starts Having Sex With Her Own Sister," 5-10, all the way up to, "This Completely Different Couple Are In Love, But They Can't Stop Fucking Their Own Mom/Dad" 88-100 (that part is a little drawn-out, I admit), ending with, "Oh, Shit, Aliens Are Blowing Everything Up."

They're all different, it's just all the characters end up being related somehow. It's my own universe in which everything that happens is compatable with everything else, and they tend to bleed over into each-other, which is one thing I miss in stories. Have you ever read an excellent series by an author, say Kellog's, and wish the characters would "run into" the ones from his other series? I certainly did, and I almost wrote it myself seeing as he disclaimed that he doesn't mind people stealing his characters.

I like what I've done. I enjoy reading (most of) my stories. Granted it doesn't carry the same anticipation factor that makes reading erotica so fun because I wrote it, but there are some very touching scenes I've done that make me go, "boo, hoo, I'm a sissy." Others make me laugh, others make me hungry. Some even make me want to try positions you only see on Animal Planet.

On the whole? Yeah, I think it's enjoyable down to the last. And it's certainly not going to be, "Vic TG's Unstoppable Ultra-Series chapters 1-200," it'll be, "Windy's Birthday," "The Twins in College," and... what's a good one... "Forgetful Faye." Each of them standing on their own two feet and, I hope, each individual representing the quality I offer as a writer. I write because these stories keep spilling out in my head and I don't get any peace otherwise, but I want to share them with you all because it's better than trying to sell them on street corners for five bob eaches. I only want to get them edited first because it's disrespectful to put out something with stupid mistakes that the writer can't catch himself.

 

[Epmd607]

That "33 pages" bit sounds like SIB-Factor's series. Thirty-odd chapters, ten percent plot, ninty percent sex. I loved it.
...

Haha, are you the literotica incest scholar? I've been reading stories here since I was a senior in high school, back when you could scroll through every story in a category in ten or so minutes. I still read every category to get a feel for the universe of erotic writing, I think its helped my own stories. I probably read the sci-fi and horror the least, nonconsent even less. Let me ask you a literotica trivia question: What very popular lit author(editors choice and possibly contest winner) has a series that breaks the underage literotica rule over and over?

 

[Darkniciad]

Make sure that you stress this when looking for an editor. You're talking about something similar to most of my list as Darkniciad. The core storyline in the "present day" is "Danica" followed by "Sisters of the Mists"

Then I have the "Arts Ardane" which are history stories from the same world, starring Danica and Devan, who appear in the core storyline.

"Blackhawk Hall" is another series dedicated to a set of characters, who make cameo appearances in the core storyline. Characters who make cameo appearances in both the core and Blackhawk likewise have starring roles in their own stories "King Thakkorias", "Queen Alicia", and "To Catch A Merchant Princess"

Clarifying things as you have now puts it a little more in perspective. Each individual story is it's own task, with a little crossover. That's a lot different from a single storyline that has to be scrutinized for plot holes for a million words *laugh*

What you're talking about would be more accurately described as a "World" or a "Universe" rather than a storyline.

That "33 pages" bit sounds like SIB-Factor's series. Thirty-odd chapters, ten percent plot, ninty percent sex. I loved it.

I feel like I'm representing myself incorrectly when I say, "I've got a big-ass story." It's not to say that it's, "This Guy and His Horse," chapters 1-733, it's more like, "This Guy and His Horse," 1-4, then, "His Girlfriend Starts Having Sex With Her Own Sister," 5-10, all the way up to, "This Completely Different Couple Are In Love, But They Can't Stop Fucking Their Own Mom/Dad" 88-100 (that part is a little drawn-out, I admit), ending with, "Oh, Shit, Aliens Are Blowing Everything Up."

They're all different, it's just all the characters end up being related somehow. It's my own universe in which everything that happens is compatable with everything else, and they tend to bleed over into each-other, which is one thing I miss in stories. Have you ever read an excellent series by an author, say Kellog's, and wish the characters would "run into" the ones from his other series? I certainly did, and I almost wrote it myself seeing as he disclaimed that he doesn't mind people stealing his characters.

I like what I've done. I enjoy reading (most of) my stories. Granted it doesn't carry the same anticipation factor that makes reading erotica so fun because I wrote it, but there are some very touching scenes I've done that make me go, "boo, hoo, I'm a sissy." Others make me laugh, others make me hungry. Some even make me want to try positions you only see on Animal Planet.

On the whole? Yeah, I think it's enjoyable down to the last. And it's certainly not going to be, "Vic TG's Unstoppable Ultra-Series chapters 1-200," it'll be, "Windy's Birthday," "The Twins in College," and... what's a good one... "Forgetful Faye." Each of them standing on their own two feet and, I hope, each individual representing the quality I offer as a writer. I write because these stories keep spilling out in my head and I don't get any peace otherwise, but I want to share them with you all because it's better than trying to sell them on street corners for five bob eaches. I only want to get them edited first because it's disrespectful to put out something with stupid mistakes that the writer can't catch himself.

 

[CopperSkink]

Wtf incest scholor? Me? Yikes... Underaged rule? I only ever remember reading one story that broke the rule blatantly - one about twins who couldn't wait the two or three hours until their eighteenth birthday to have sex. Just a moment... rats; can't find it. Anyhow, I'm really behind when it comes to reading new material. Is it just me, or does the huge load of stories make it difficult to find one good author? Oh yeah, there's Christmas Wish by beaverhunter76, though he only makes allusions.

But plot holes, I guarantee I have them. I'm guessing one hundred heif characters by now; how embarrassed would I be if I crossed Garnet with Prudence while Garnet was eighteen, then someone writes in comments, "dur, i just readed ur other story, and idn't pru like 12 when that happens?"
I damn-near did do that crossover, but I caught it in time. Anyways, you, mister Ciad, make a fine point about the difference between a bundle of uniform-universe stories and a central plot line. Point of fact, I don't have a central plot line. It was the main reason I wasn't able to give a name to my story; I just gave each thingy its own.

I'm gonna have to browse the rest of the rest of these boards before we end up turning this place into a "best authors of incest" thread.

"This is the Sun; your call is very important to us..."

 

[_Lynn_]

Reading the title of this thread is scary enough.
Having that many pages/words to go through would take forever.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Reading the title of this thread is scary enough.
Having that many pages/words to go through would take forever.

I have a max about an hour a day I can commit to, minus my "usual writers". May take weeks or months, but I'm okay with this.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

The 5-person editing team actually does seem like a good idea. As you've said, it's a huge work load, so dividing it into manageable chunks is step one. ...

Unfortunately the problem first posed was one of spotting continuity errors, and that can't be done by a team reading different chunks.

Reading the title of this thread is scary enough. ...

I suspect that may have been the idea. Scare off the lightweights (ie, editors only interested in short stories up to and including normal novels) and hope that there is at least one heavyweight somewhere.

 

[CopperSkink]

After reading works like Whisperstory's "The Big Time," I knew there was at least one person in the world that liked their stories long.

I'm not worried about several editors not catching continuity problems so long as the chunks I give them are all from the same set of years. Still, that's a quarter-million bits eaches ::S

And I'm certainly scared of any editor who can't read through a simple title without his eyes crossing. Only hardcore need apply here, definately. I'm looking for someone who wants a relationship with my stories, not a one-night stand.

 

[_Lynn_]

Unfortunately the problem first posed was one of spotting continuity errors, and that can't be done by a team reading different chunks.

I suspect that may have been the idea. Scare off the lightweights (ie, editors only interested in short stories up to and including normal novels) and hope that there is at least one heavyweight somewhere.

Trust me, I'm not a lightweight. I do know my time limitations for the next few months though. For example, NaNo takes most of November.

After reading works like Whisperstory's "The Big Time," I knew there was at least one person in the world that liked their stories long.

I'm not worried about several editors not catching continuity problems so long as the chunks I give them are all from the same set of years. Still, that's a quarter-million bits eaches ::S

And I'm certainly scared of any editor who can't read through a simple title without his eyes crossing. Only hardcore need apply here, definately. I'm looking for someone who wants a relationship with my stories, not a one-night stand.

I never cross my eyes.

And there's nothing wrong with a one-night stand either.

 

[CopperSkink]

With all of this said, I'd like to made a request for an editor. I don't intend to shove my entire life's story down your throat; take it one week at a time if you want, just keep in mind I'll always have work for you to do for the rest of your life. I've got three more spots open if anyone's interested in a challange.