NHS - No Horrors Spared!

[scheherazade_79]

Daily Mail - 02/09/09

Police are investigating a "serious" security breach after a civil servant lost top-secret documents containing the latest intelligence on NHS failings.

The unnamed Cabinet Office employee apparently breached strict security rules when he left the papers on the seat of dodgem ride at Clapham funfair.

The ride operator spotted the envelope containing the files and gave it to the Daily Mail, who read them thoroughly before handing them over to the police a week later.

Horrors documented in the files include:

• Cannibalism amongst foreign nurses, including one instance of an auxiliary nurse biting the toe off a newborn child.
• Cost-cutting at rural cottage hospitals, where patients are served pigswill from neighbouring farms.
• An administrative error that led to an American tourist receiving a sex change operation instead of an appendectomy.
• Patients wheeled straight from the morgues to the hospital furnaces to cut back on waiting time for beds.
• Widespread outbreaks of scabies and leprosy on wards up and down the country, caused by a failed “bring your own bedsheets” policy.

The official was later suspended from his job, the Cabinet Office announced.

Health Minister, Andy Burnham now faces demands for an official inquiry.

Keith Vaz MP, chairman of the powerful Home Affairs select committee told the Daily Mail: "Such confidential documents should be locked away...they should not be read on funfair rides.

“I will be writing to the Health Minister to establish an inquiry into the affair.”

Any inquiry is likely to focus on the Cabinet Office, and the security procedures that made it possible for sensitive information to be allowed out of a secure environment.

One Whitehall source sought to play down the impact of the breach: "We don't believe there is a threat to any individuals in what’s in these documents now that they’ve entered the public domain.

“We could have stopped the Mail from publishing them, but at the end of the day it was just too much fun to watch the Americans watch on with horror as anxiety over Obamacare reaches a crescendo.”

The BBC, who are in the process of filming a new series of Casualty, along with two more fly-on-the-wall hospital documentaries, are said to have already entered negotiations with US sci-fi and horror television networks.

 

[oggbashan]

Sigh.

Someone, somewhere, will believe that it's all true...

Og

 

[scheherazade_79]

Sigh.

Someone, somewhere, will believe that it's all true...

Og

People will believe what they want to believe, but one thing I don't understand is if the NHS is so shit compared to the existing US healthcare system, how come British life expectancy is higher than US life expectancy?

 

[York]

People will believe what they want to believe, but one thing I don't understand is if the NHS is so shit compared to the existing US healthcare system, how come British life expectancy is higher than US life expectancy?

It isn't shit. The whole thing's an utterly bizarre right-wing propaganda attempt to try and fool people into thinking it's better to have a health care system where only those who can afford insurance get looked after.

 

[popcorn2721]

It isn't shit. The whole thing's an utterly bizarre right-wing propaganda attempt to try and fool people into thinking it's better to have a health care system where only those who can afford insurance get looked after.

True...pinkstarfish posted a video link that has a insurance company insider having a sitdown with Bill Moyer, talking about the corporate strategy.
The oddest thing about the video is the mention that insurance companies and political figures that people want to be naked, that is without insurance. They assume that of the whole amount of people with out insurance "at least" fifty percent of them "choose" to be without because they don't want to pay for the premiums. They have aligned themselves with the same ignorant individuals that would cast the right wing vote while following the moral majority, folks who are for the most part poor and undereducated and doing what they think is right by voting along the moral lines. It is from these people that you hear the toothless cries about "socialism" and "politicians standing in the way of health care".

 

[scheherazade_79]

It isn't shit. The whole thing's an utterly bizarre right-wing propaganda attempt to try and fool people into thinking it's better to have a health care system where only those who can afford insurance get looked after.

I'm a Brit, and the NHS saved my life.

I was referring (with irony) to the sudden explosion of threads trashing the system.

For the record, I absolutely agree with you

 

[York]

I'm a Brit, and the NHS saved my life.

I was referring (with irony) to the sudden explosion of threads trashing the system.

For the record, I absolutely agree with you

I did understand your irony. I maybe didn't phrase my reply too well.

I'm a Brit too and have always been very impressed by and cherish our NHS.

 

[SimonBrooke]

I'm a Brit, and the NHS saved my life.

I was referring (with irony) to the sudden explosion of threads trashing the system.

For the record, I absolutely agree with you

For equal treatment, American medicine gets paid about three times the amount of money that British medicine does. Of course, some of that goes on their vastly more convoluted bureaucracy, but a lot of it has to be profit - if you're charging people three times as much for the same service there has to be a huge profit, no matter how inefficient you are.

The people who are making that profit want to keep making that profit. They know that if the United States gets a National Health Service they will get very little of it. It's worth a huge amount of money - the profits have got to be at least two or three percent of US GDP. So they can afford to spend a huge amount on public relations saying how bad 'socialised medicine' is. And a huge section of the American public is so insular and so ill-informed that they are prepared to believe it.

Spend a few billion dollars on PR, and people like Amicus will happily work for you for nothing, believing this is an expression of their freedom from brainwashing.

Irony. Like coppery or silvery, but harder.

 

[DesertPirate]

For the original post *Snerk*

Wow this is turning out to be a great week. Zade makes an appearance and Jenny Jackson shows up!

 

[wife2hotblk]

I'm an American living in the UK and married to a Brit for three plus years now. I LOVE NHS. I have even written to Gordon Brown as well as Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton back when they were both just candidates. I wish with all my heart that Obama would go farther and push for a similar system in the US.

In the past three years, I have had major emergency surgery after years of my HMO in the US misdiagonising my illness and sending me away with strong narcotics rather than do a simple ultrasound that would have solved the whole thing. The moment I gave my history and symptoms my NHS GP suspected the true cause.

My three year old daughter has epilepsy. It is likely genetic. Not only have her doctors gotten it under control with meds, but we are awaiting approval for the genetic testing that will confirm the diagnosis. This same simple blood test is denied families in the US, because of the cost (several thousand dollars). Our neurologist says it will take some time to be approved because it does cost them £600, but he assures me that he has never had anyone denied.

I am now almost three months pregnant and am very high risk due to age and previous caesareans. I will be offered all genetic testing and seen by a consultant as well as the community midwives.

But to me the biggest difference between health care in the US and UK is the respect and fully informed care you receive from the doctors. When I had my surgery, I was terrified of being put to sleep. My surgeon was one of the top men in the field in the UK and the world. He came out to me before they put me to sleep. He held my hand and personally assured me that everything would be alright. I shiver to think of the condescending way that my fears would have been dealt with by a US doctor. I would have been told that I was irrational (of course I was) and demeaned. And top this, while I was in the hospital, my GP called my husband at home a couple of times to check up on me. Can you imagine that happening in the US?

I'm not saying it is perfect. The NICE guidelines said my daughter should have been seen by a neurologist within two weeks of her seizure. It took four months, but she was seen monthly by her paeditrician until then. By the time we finally got to see him, we had her seizures under control with medicine. I also received an emergency card that allows her to be seen on quicker or me to call 24/7 with questions.

And then there is NHS Direct that offers 24/7 advice from nurses. I have had to use it several times. They are always polite and accurate.

I have come to accept that there are good and bad in both my homes, US and UK. But if and when we return to the US, I will miss the NHS more than I can say.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Maybe you people should start wondering why health care in the U.S. is so damned expensive.

I have a good friend in Dalles who is an OBGYN. Her malpractice insurance bill is $120,000 per year. Hospitals are in a similar situation. My perfect child has 11 toes. Sue the doctor. Sue the hospital. Sue the drug company that provided the "over-the-counter" medication for the flu I had a year ago.

My sister is an attorny who sues doctors. Her malpractice insurance is $4200 per year but also includes business insurance for nearly everything at $1,000,000 per episode.

Do you really think that will change under the rediculous Obama Plan?

This is another case of some foolish administration trying to legislate a moral code over a large group of people who only have their own interests in mind.

 

[R. Richard]

When people here in the USA complain that they can't afford health insurance, I just tell them, "Think of all the malpractice lawyers out there who need the Mercedes your insurance bill helps provide."

 

[York]

One the biggest problems the States has is that it is such a litigious society. Sadly it gets ever more prevalent over here in the UK.

Saying that "This is another case of some foolish administration trying to legislate a moral code over a large group of people who only have their own interests in mind." seems pretty twisted logic to me. Surely it's the other way round? Surely Obama is trying to bring health care to all, not just those who have their own interests in mind?

Why is it foolish to wish health care for all? What is wrong with a moral code anyway? Surely it's better than the immoral code that is currently in place?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

One the biggest problems the States has is that it is such a litigious society. Sadly it gets ever more prevalent over here in the UK.

Saying that "This is another case of some foolish administration trying to legislate a moral code over a large group of people who only have their own interests in mind." seems pretty twisted logic to me. Surely it's the other way round? Surely Obama is trying to bring health care to all, not just those who have their own interests in mind?

Why is it foolish to wish health care for all? What is wrong with a moral code anyway? Surely it's better than the immoral code that is currently in place?[/QUOTE

There's nothing wrong with trying to bring health care to everyone. But you have to place limits on the legal profession and the insurance companies before you can even attempt to bring universal health care reform. If you don't, then the system will be bankrupt in a short time due to law suits and increasing insurance premiums.

Another part of the problem is the recession. Companies are dropping employee heath insurance while workers are being laid off, wages are languising or lowering and the comon worker is having a difficult time making ends meet. That means one of the first things to go will be individual health insurance with the worker betting he and his family stays healthy until this economic mess is over and that there will still be companies who offer health insurance to their employees. Both bets are a crap shoot.

Also, where is the $1 Trillion dollars to fund a federal health care plan coming from? Higher taxes on the common worker who is already stressed and the elderly through appropriation of the Medicare Trust Fund. Both ideas are sick.

 

[DesertPirate]

Maybe you people should start wondering why health care in the U.S. is so damned expensive.

I have a good friend in Dalles who is an OBGYN. Her malpractice insurance bill is $120,000 per year. Hospitals are in a similar situation. My perfect child has 11 toes. Sue the doctor. Sue the hospital. Sue the drug company that provided the "over-the-counter" medication for the flu I had a year ago.

My sister is an attorny who sues doctors. Her malpractice insurance is $4200 per year but also includes business insurance for nearly everything at $1,000,000 per episode.

Do you really think that will change under the rediculous Obama Plan?

This is another case of some foolish administration trying to legislate a moral code over a large group of people who only have their own interests in mind.

Thank you for pointing that out Jenny.
Malpractice insurance is so high in NC, we have close to 12% fewer Dr's than we did 15 years ago. Most of the drop is Dr's moving to another state. Insurance went up, depending on specialty, between 40% and 90%. Why? Ask that famed ambulance chaser and former Presidential candidate John Edwards. It is his true legacy in NC.

 

[SimonBrooke]

Thank you for pointing that out Jenny.
Malpractice insurance is so high in NC, we have close to 12% fewer Dr's than we did 15 years ago. Most of the drop is Dr's moving to another state. Insurance went up, depending on specialty, between 40% and 90%. Why? Ask that famed ambulance chaser and former Presidential candidate John Edwards. It is his true legacy in NC.

You know, it seems to me the United States have two main problems: too many guns and too many lawyers. The solution is obvious: declare open season on the lawyers.

 

[DeeZire]

...Also, where is the $1 Trillion dollars to fund a federal health care plan coming from? Higher taxes on the common worker who is already stressed and the elderly through appropriation of the Medicare Trust Fund. Both ideas are sick.

Wrong. According to the bills being considered, the top one percent of wage earners will lose their Bush tax cut for the rich.

Looking back at the prosperity of the 50s and 60s, the tax burden on the rich was much higher than it is today. Did you notice what was in that last sentence - "prosperity", and "tax burden"? Granted, that was before globalization, but the point is that we can pay higher taxes and still prosper. I see it as a matter of personal responsibility. If we're going to enjoy government services such as Social Security and Medicare, we really ought to be willing to pay for them, rather than handing the bill to the next generation.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Wrong. According to the bills being considered, the top one percent of wage earners will lose their Bush tax cut for the rich.

Looking back at the prosperity of the 50s and 60s, the tax burden on the rich was much higher than it is today. Did you notice what was in that last sentence - "prosperity", and "tax burden"? Granted, that was before globalization, but the point is that we can pay higher taxes and still prosper. I see it as a matter of personal responsibility. If we're going to enjoy government services such as Social Security and Medicare, we really ought to be willing to pay for them, rather than handing the bill to the next generation.

Agreed, we can have prosparity with higher taxes. However, my point is, if you listen to Warren Buffet instead of that moron, lapdog, Brenake, this is going to be a long haul out of the recession - six or seven years, not by Christmas as the Obama Administration wants us to believe. So we are going to do this now at the bottom of recession or when things turn around and people can actually afford it? Why are so many Americans without health insurance now? They ain't got the money. Passing a law requiring them to buy Health Insurance is just stupid in the midst of a record recession.

 

[rgraham666]

And then the usual suspects can howl about 'fascistic governments' some more.

Which, it now occurs to me may have been the reason they opposed a public option from the first. After all you can't prove government is bad if it does something good.

 

[York]

There's nothing wrong with trying to bring health care to everyone. But you have to place limits on the legal profession and the insurance companies before you can even attempt to bring universal health care reform. If you don't, then the system will be bankrupt in a short time due to law suits and increasing insurance premiums.

Another part of the problem is the recession. Companies are dropping employee heath insurance while workers are being laid off, wages are languising or lowering and the comon worker is having a difficult time making ends meet. That means one of the first things to go will be individual health insurance with the worker betting he and his family stays healthy until this economic mess is over and that there will still be companies who offer health insurance to their employees. Both bets are a crap shoot.

Also, where is the $1 Trillion dollars to fund a federal health care plan coming from? Higher taxes on the common worker who is already stressed and the elderly through appropriation of the Medicare Trust Fund. Both ideas are sick.

To my mind this is looking at the problem arse about tit. You shouldn't be looking at the trillion dollars and saying where does it come from, but looking at it and saying how to we stop this insane blame culture so we can bring in free at the point of service health care.

The sick thing here is that there is such a huge divide in such a wealthy country between those who can and can't afford the healthcare. There is more than enough money in the States to pay for good health care for everyone, but the problem is that the powers that be prefer to spend the money on things like invading countries where they have no right to be and wasting billions and billions of dollars on killing folk rather than saving lives.

I suppose it all comes down to a basic outlook on life.

 

[Edward Teach]

It isn't shit. The whole thing's an utterly bizarre right-wing propaganda attempt to try and fool people into thinking it's better to have a health care system where only those who can afford insurance get looked after.

One of the sad realities in the US is that much of the Right Wing Con support is from the lower middle class, the people who need reform the most.

The Cons always tie their causes to god, guns, gays, and patriotism and they are being successful doing it with the healthcare issue.

Edward the Sad

 

[jomar]

It isn't shit. The whole thing's an utterly bizarre right-wing propaganda attempt to try and fool people into thinking it's better to have a health care system where only those who can afford insurance get looked after.

I think it's insurance companies and big pharm. They've done an outstanding job of scaring the shit out of the old people and wingnuts and getting their message out at town hall meetings.

Maybe you people should start wondering why health care in the U.S. is so damned expensive.

I have a good friend in Dalles who is an OBGYN. Her malpractice insurance bill is $120,000 per year. Hospitals are in a similar situation. My perfect child has 11 toes. Sue the doctor. Sue the hospital. Sue the drug company that provided the "over-the-counter" medication for the flu I had a year ago.

My sister is an attorny who sues doctors. Her malpractice insurance is $4200 per year but also includes business insurance for nearly everything at $1,000,000 per episode.

Do you really think that will change under the rediculous Obama Plan?

This is another case of some foolish administration trying to legislate a moral code over a large group of people who only have their own interests in mind.

The news is rife with docs who have had to fold their tent and move on to a different profession due to staggering malpractice premiums.

When managed care emerged in the late 1980s early 1990s they micromanaged providers to restrict services until diminishing profit profit margins dictated they fired people and looked less closely, except to make sure they chipped away at provider reimbursement rates.

 

[York]

One of the sad realities in the US is that much of the Right Wing Con support is from the lower middle class, the people who need reform the most.

I think this is a fantastic point, and is the same in the UK; it's something that has always amazed me. It's akin to turkeys having the chance to abolish Christmas every year and saying, nah, you know what, let's get slaughtered and eaten, it's been going on for so long now we're used to it, change would be scary.

 

[oggbashan]

One of my daughters is a doctor. Her insurance costs are higher than her taxes.

She works in a hospice for the dying. All her patients die within a short time of admission.

And yet she has to pay a massive amount to protect herself against malpractice suits.

Og

 

[McKenna]

It isn't shit. The whole thing's an utterly bizarre right-wing propaganda attempt to try and fool people into thinking it's better to have a health care system where only those who can afford insurance get looked after.

It's absolutely terrifying how true this is.

Spend a few billion dollars on PR, and people like Amicus will happily work for you for nothing, believing this is an expression of their freedom from brainwashing.

I read an article on CNN from a former Cigna (US insurance company) insider who verified companies do, indeed, do this very thing. Insurance companies also work heavily with congressional lobbyists to keep national healthcare from blooming into fruition. Why not? They have more money to do so than those in our country who can't even afford medical services.

Maybe you people should start wondering why health care in the U.S. is so damned expensive.

<snip>

This is another case of some foolish administration trying to legislate a moral code over a large group of people who only have their own interests in mind.

Is it any more moral to be forcefed a diet of capitalism for the benefit of the few, and not the many? I'm curious what you suggest, then? Are you so enamored of our current system you don't think it needs an overhaul? It's great to point out and make us all realize the failings of this proposal, but what, then, is the solution? American healthcare as it is now is deplorable.