Understanding the Democrat Healthcare Plan

[Zeb_Carter]

Click Here ... it's a PDF.

Just thought you would like to know.

 

[Huckleman2000]

If it only covered Democrats, it would be better.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

If it only covered Democrats, it would be better.

Are you making a funny!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

In reality its designed to rescue MEDICARE and MEDICAID. Medicare for the elderly is in serious trouble. The US Government pissed away the Medicare Fund. The states are in trouble because of rising Medicaid enrollments.

 

[Liar]

Hockay... Nice piece of obfuscation rhetorics there from GOPleader. Someone has a sweet talent for taking minor details and make them look big, scary and overly complicated by means of graphic presentation.

If you actually look at the thing, it has four main components: Consumers, traditional health insureance plans, the exchange thing (the main new part, allowing a possible public insurance option to compete, and if I understand it correctly, also make sure that the public plan is not the only viable option for the now uninsured) and the health care providers. The rest looks to me like various oversight functions, and a bunch of veichles to make sailin' smoother for special interrests, for instance heath care in certain context (like for military personell ad vets), a drive at preventive health care, and so on. Aren't those mostly things that already exist in one way or the other?

I wonder, if you drew the same chart of how it looks now... would it really be all that less complex?

 

[amicus]

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20090715/NEWS02/707159766

Associated Press

WASHINGTON —

House Democrats on Tuesday rolled out a far-reaching $1.5 trillion plan that for the first time would make health care a right and a responsibility for all Americans, with medical providers, employers and the wealthiest picking up most of the tab.

The federal government would be responsible for ensuring that every person, regardless of income or the state of their health, has access to an affordable insurance plan. Individuals and employers would have new obligations to get or offer coverage, or face hefty penalties....(

follow link for more)

~~~

Healthcare is too important, far too important, to allow a corrupt government to manage...government bankrupts everything it attempts to control.

This program, rather the interpretation in the article, declares that both Medicare and Medicade plans in place will suffer if this passes and Medicare is already in the red.

Good luck folks...welcome to Socialist America

Amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

There's a frantic/hysterical tone in the haste to get this thing made law. The tone reminds me of contractors scrambling for cash to make payroll and pay suppliers. Something is up and we dont know what it is.

 

[Guest]

Click Here ... it's a PDF.

Just thought you would like to know.

You wanna take a peek at my hospital bills?

 

[amicus]

You wanna take a peek at my hospital bills?

~~~


sweets...blame the medical establishment, they permit like nine new doctors to graduate each year...old adage, create scarcity, keep prices high, motto of the Unions.

And Tort laws, that permit medical malpractice suits over anything and only make the lawyers rich.

I almost hope you get socialized medicine and when you see how it really works, please remember, ah tole you so!

the always adorable amicus...

 

[Xelebes]

It isn't the doctors that make it terribly expensive, though they do contribute some, but it is run-amok tort law in the US that creates a lot of unnecessary expenses via insurance for practicing medicine. Have that removed and good chunk of the bill comes off right there.

 

[Huckleman2000]

It isn't the doctors that make it terribly expensive, though they do contribute some, but it is run-amok tort law in the US that creates a lot of unnecessary expenses via insurance for practicing medicine. Have that removed and good chunk of the bill comes off right there.

That's a red herring. Estimates are that tort reform would save less than 2%.

 

[Xelebes]

That's a red herring. Estimates are that tort reform would save less than 2%.

What of those that don't pay?

Edit: I meant to ask, what is the contribution of costs from the patients that can't pay?

 

[DesertPirate]

AMICUS

There's a frantic/hysterical tone in the haste to get this thing made law. The tone reminds me of contractors scrambling for cash to make payroll and pay suppliers. Something is up and we dont know what it is.

Just like every other bill this Administration has wanted, it has to rushed and declared a crisis so nobody can read the whole thing before voting. Lord only knows what kind of crap is hidden in there.

 

[3113]

Someone pointed out that this really isn't an issue between conservatives and liberals, but between Insurance companies (and those they've bought and paid for) and the rest of us.

Personally, all I want is the same thing those voting on these bills get. Their government funded heath plan. If they don't think that's a good idea, then they should go off it themselves and buy into an insurance plan like the rest of us. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

And, no, Zeb, I won't click on that. I don't read propaganda.

 

[DG Hear]

Click Here ... it's a PDF.

Just thought you would like to know.

Zeb it looks like a map of our road construction and detours. Yes, I'm just making a funny. I sold insurance for years and no matter what plan they use a lot of jobs will be lost in the insurance industry. Of course we might end up with another group of government jobs.

 

[TE999]

Someone pointed out that this really isn't an issue between conservatives and liberals, but between Insurance companies (and those they've bought and paid for) and the rest of us.

Personally, all I want is the same thing those voting on these bills get. Their government funded heath plan. If they don't think that's a good idea, then they should go off it themselves and buy into an insurance plan like the rest of us. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

And, no, Zeb, I won't click on that. I don't read propaganda.

Fat chance of THAT occurring. The Politburo rates higher than the average peasant, ergo: they deserve better health care. ps: AIG was bailed out because...surprise...they insure Congress' health plan fund and it's investments.

I hear now they're going to raid Medicare and Medicaid to pay for this boondoggle...who needs those old farts...we want the workers healthy to pay the taxes to bring healthcare to the uninsured who wont have a job because those with money that create jobs are going to be taxed into oblivion and those that are still working will pay more taxes because more people will be lacking health care...until the whole crumbling edifice falls flat and chaos reigns.

 

[Huckleman2000]

What of those that don't pay?

Edit: I meant to ask, what is the contribution of costs from the patients that can't pay?

Hard to say. I found estimates of $35-50B/yr of 'charity care', but the impact on peoples' lives and economic productivity is far higher. One study estimates the net economic value (i.e., gain) of covering the uninsured to be $65-135B/yr.

This site lists some depressing stats about healthcare in the US including these:

* According to a recent report, the United States has $480 billion in excess spending each year in comparison to Western European nations that have universal health insurance coverage. The costs are mainly associated with excess administrative costs and poorer quality of care.14
* The United States spends six times more per capita on the administration of the health care system than its peer Western European nations.14

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Just like every other bill this Administration has wanted, it has to rushed and declared a crisis so nobody can read the whole thing before voting. Lord only knows what kind of crap is hidden in there.

Based on 200+ years of American history as precedent, we're buying a trillion dollars worth of tuition from the Washington School of Hard Knocks. It proves how silly and stupid most Americans are that we even take this shit seriously.

 

[Handley_Page]

Click Here ... it's a PDF.

Just thought you would like to know.

Is that chart some kind of joke ?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

They'll run it exactly how they run MEDICARE and MEDICAID. You'll be assigned to a program like HUMANA or one of the others, they'll keep the money you dont spend, and they'll ration the care you get.

They'll go to the hospitals and twist arms with threats of black-listing. So the hospitals will pay nurses $10 an hour and minimum wages for everyone else.

Officials and elites and perfumed princes will get preferred services, and you'll sign up and wait.

 

[Pure]

Originally Posted by DesertPirate
//Just like every other bill this Administration has wanted, it has to rushed and declared a crisis so nobody can read the whole thing before voting. Lord only knows what kind of crap is hidden in there. //

jbj Based on 200+ years of American history as precedent, we're buying a trillion dollars worth of tuition from the Washington School of Hard Knocks.

what exactly does the right propose, besides saying "no problem", and 'the market will provide.' [leaving aside tort reform, for the moment].

jbj, what's a good fascist/paleo solution to the healthcare prioblem (one part of which is the number of uninsured, or underinsured.)?

PS: what's stunning to me is the US's 'exceptionalism'; the problem of healthcare has been tackled, with varying degrees of success, by all the advanced countries. no American leaders are looking at them, or at least metnioning it! why is not an exemplar or pattern to be found among these countries, some very friendly to capital? what's so damn unique about the US's issues in this area?

==
zeb, thanks for the chart. there's a degree of truth in it; the democrats, besides having to minimize exposure to republican "spendthrift" and "socialist" critiques, have to placate hoardes of lobbyists, hence the programs are melanges, cobbled together like Bush's plans for drug coverage.

 

[R. Richard]

Originally Posted by DesertPirate
//Just like every other bill this Administration has wanted, it has to rushed and declared a crisis so nobody can read the whole thing before voting. Lord only knows what kind of crap is hidden in there. //

jbj Based on 200+ years of American history as precedent, we're buying a trillion dollars worth of tuition from the Washington School of Hard Knocks.

what exactly does the right propose, besides saying "no problem", and 'the market will provide.' [leaving aside tort reform, for the moment].

jbj, what's a good fascist/paleo solution to the healthcare prioblem (one part of which is the number of uninsured, or underinsured.)?

PS: what's stunning to me is the US's 'exceptionalism'; the problem of healthcare has been tackled, with varying degrees of success, by all the advanced countries. no American leaders are looking at them, or at least metnioning it! why is not an exemplar or pattern to be found among these countries, some very friendly to capital? what's so damn unique about the US's issues in this area?

==
zeb, thanks for the chart. there's a degree of truth in it; the democrats, besides having to minimize exposure to republican "spendthrift" and "socialist" critiques, have to placate hoardes of lobbyists, hence the programs are melanges, cobbled together like Bush's plans for drug coverage.

You ask for a private solution. Lets start by examining a government solution.
==============================================
Hawaii drops universal child health care

HONOLULU (AP) — Hawaii is dropping the only state universal child health care program in the United States just seven months after it launched.
Gov. Linda Lingle's administration cited budget shortfalls and other available health care options for eliminating funding for the program. A state official said families were dropping private coverage so their children would be eligible for the subsidized plan.

"People who were already able to afford health care began to stop paying for it so they could get it for free," said Dr. Kenny Fink, the administrator for Med-QUEST at the Department of Human Services. "I don't believe that was the intent of the program."

State officials said Thursday they will stop giving health coverage to the 2,000 children enrolled by Nov. 1, but private partner Hawaii Medical Service Association will pay to extend their coverage through the end of the year without government support.

"We're very disappointed in the state's decision, and it came as a complete surprise to us," said Jennifer Diesman, a spokeswoman for HMSA, the state's largest health care provider. "We believe the program is working, and given Hawaii's economic uncertainty, we don't think now is the time to cut all funding for this kind of program."

Hawaii lawmakers approved the health plan in 2007 as a way to ensure every child can get basic medical help. The Keiki (child) Care program aimed to cover every child from birth to 18 years old who didn't already have health insurance — mostly immigrants and members of lower-income families.

State health officials argued that most of the children enrolled in the universal child care program previously had private health insurance, indicating that it was helping those who didn't need it.

The U.S. is one of the few western countries that does not have universal health care, although many states have government programs to help parents cover their children.
===================================================

It's impossible to provide health care to everyone who might need it. If every possible measure is taken to provide health care to everyone who might need it, the system collapses. In the current USA system, health care is available to anyone who can pay for it. In addition, emergency rooms will provide at least minimal care for no cost at the time.

In the countries where they provide 'universal health care,' they do so by rationing access via long waits for basic services.

I don't have health insurance and no one will sell it to me, because of the work I do. [Yes, I have had a half dozen policies cancelled, once they found out part of what I'm doing.] So, I'm uninsured and I pay cash if I need medical care, the same thing that those I deal with in my business mostly do. The difference is that most of my customers can't afford/won't buy health insurance and that's mostly why they're the kind of people I deal with. There is a cure. However, the state and federal governments have these ticky-tacky laws that prevent me from administering the cure.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You wanna take a peek at my hospital bills?

I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Waxman-Markey Heathcare Bill…makes private health insurance illegal.

The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of "Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage," the "Limitation On New Enrollment" section of the bill clearly states:
"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law.

So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised — with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

PURE

If I were dictator every American would get ONE physical, TWO E/R visits, and FIVE office visits FREE. You'd get generic drugs and $10 eye-glass frames plus lenses. FREE teeth extraction, cavity repair, and one exam yearly. If you need inpatient care you go on a ward. We change the laws to allow RNs and ARNPS to do more medical care. ONE MD can supervise several nurses. Clerks can do the charting for everyone.

The way it is right now Hospitals and MDs pile on when it comes to fees cuz every damned thing is a la carte. Under my system a fucking aspirin comes with the goddamned room, courtesy from the nurse comes with the cost of the room. And they wont send the bill collector to your house a week after youre discharged.