Perhaps the GOP tide is turning.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

So who leads in this 3rd party? A ravaging beast like Beck, or a firey Berkley Feminist, A Midwesterner Governor with White hair and a glib message of ...(insert here) and "freedom"?

For my self I would like someone sane, articulate, more like J. William Fullbright, than George Bush (either of them). His "Arrogance of Power" was masterful yet LBJ couldn't even see reality.

I guess this is where I need to toss my hat in the ring as Fascist Party candidate for President.

The rules will be simple:
1. Do what you want but not on the street.
2. You elected Dubya and Al Franken, so no more voting. Politicians are a luxury America can no longer afford.
3. TV entertainment will feature wholesome programs like UNCLE WALT'S WORKSHOP, COOKING WITH MOM, and 800 cable channels that monitor global warming sites (you can pop the top on a brewskie and watch a glacier melt or the sea rise) and starving children in Africa with host, Bono.
4. Wall Street, the US Department of the Treasury, and US banks will be managed by Las Vegas casino operators and the Fraternal Order of Brooklyn Sicilians. Your money will finally be safe and earn income.
5. Marriage will be by lottery drawing. You may get a male or a female partner. Your partner may be Gary Coleman or Sarah Palin. Every county in America will be firnished with a steel drum filled Dick Cheney semen, this is for the convenience of lesbian couples. Interested females will be allowed 15 minutes to sit in a wading pool filled with the Cheney semen.

 

[Xelebes]

All of a sudden I want to eat breakfast.

 

[Boxlicker101]

So who leads in this 3rd party? A ravaging beast like Beck, or a firey Berkley Feminist, A Midwesterner Governor with White hair and a glib message of ...(insert here) and "freedom"?

For my self I would like someone sane, articulate, more like J. William Fullbright, than George Bush (either of them). His "Arrogance of Power" was masterful yet LBJ couldn't even see reality.

Maybe Jesse Ventura, former pro rassler and gov. of MN. That state has been known to elect some strange candidates, as has CA.

 

[TE999]

So who leads in this 3rd party? A ravaging beast like Beck, or a firey Berkley Feminist, A Midwesterner Governor with White hair and a glib message of ...(insert here) and "freedom"?

For my self I would like someone sane, articulate, more like J. William Fullbright, than George Bush (either of them). His "Arrogance of Power" was masterful yet LBJ couldn't even see reality.

I would imagine none of the above. So far 3rd party leaders have been wackos...Sinclair Lewis, George Wallace, Ross Perot, et al...it still would be interesting to see a 3rd party candidate stirring up the establishment...however corralling the various and sundry groups of dissatisfied voters both left and right (and the mushy middle) under one banner is akin to herding cats and vastly more difficult.

Mounting a campaign is yet another matter...right now money talks and bullshit walks...being able to counter the established parties war chests would be daunting to say the least. Not to mention educating the voting public to ignore the sizzle and look to see if there's any steak on the plate.

 

[Belegon]

I'd imagine they're playing to the anti-illegal immigrant faction, and turning a blind eye to the fact that the southern portion of the state is, for all rights and purposes, Tiajuana Norte.

As someone who is for all relevant purposes a native of San Diego (moved there @ 2 months old) I find that statement to be both asinine and offensive.

I think you should look at the political history of the San Diego area before making such statements. Certainly there is a large Mexican-American population in San Diego, but it's hardly the only population.

For example, name some famous sports figures from the SD area.

Reggie Bush. Phil Mickelson. Marcus Allen. Ted Williams. Barry Zito. Craig Stadler. Alex Smith. Bill Walton. Terrell Davis. Adrian Gonzalez. Michael Chang. Gail Devers. Greg Louganis. Shaun White. Tony Hawk. Rick Johnson. Jimmie Johnson.

That's golf, tennis, baseball, football, tennis, diving, snowboarding, skateboarding, motocross, NASCAR and track. I thick we can call it a diverse enough group to provide a decent sample size.

How many of those people are Mexican-Americans?

 

[TE999]

As someone who is for all relevant purposes a native of San Diego (moved there @ 2 months old) I find that statement to be both asinine and offensive.

I think you should look at the political history of the San Diego area before making such statements. Certainly there is a large Mexican-American population in San Diego, but it's hardly the only population.

For example, name some famous sports figures from the SD area.

Reggie Bush. Phil Mickelson. Marcus Allen. Ted Williams. Barry Zito. Craig Stadler. Alex Smith. Bill Walton. Terrell Davis. Adrian Gonzalez. Michael Chang. Gail Devers. Greg Louganis. Shaun White. Tony Hawk. Rick Johnson. Jimmie Johnson.

That's golf, tennis, baseball, football, tennis, diving, snowboarding, skateboarding, motocross, NASCAR and track. I thick we can call it a diverse enough group to provide a decent sample size.

How many of those people are Mexican-Americans?

Ummm...none of them. Is that somehow discriminatory?

I'm sure San Diego's a veritable paragon of diversity. Bravo. Can that be said for the rest of Southern California? Maybe the 2010 Census will tell a different story.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Ummm...none of them. Is that somehow discriminatory?

I'm sure San Diego's a veritable paragon of diversity. Bravo. Can that be said for the rest of Southern California? Maybe the 2010 Census will tell a different story.

TE, actually San Diego IS "a veritable paragon of diversity." It historically votes heavily Republican while, at the same time, hosts next week's Pride Festival, which is the biggest civic event of the year (and one of the largest in the US).

Also, you've got to realize that most of us don't include LA as part of Southern California. It's kind of considered to be on a planet of its own. (which is why San Diegans thank gawd daily for Camp Pendleton and 100,000 Marines being between them and us!!!!)

BTW, you can also Rhianna, Sara Ramirez, Whoopi Goldberg, and Mario Lopez to your list.

 

[TE999]

TE, actually San Diego IS "a veritable paragon of diversity." It historically votes heavily Republican while, at the same time, hosts next week's Pride Festival, which is the biggest civic event of the year (and one of the largest in the US).

Also, you've got to realize that most of us don't include LA as part of Southern California. It's kind of considered to be on a planet of its own. (which is why San Diegans thank gawd daily for Camp Pendleton and 100,000 Marines being between them and us!!!!)

BTW, you can also Rhianna, Sara Ramirez, Whoopi Goldberg, and Mario Lopez to your list.

I know a lot about San Diego, Suze. My uncle retired there after a career in the Navy and my cousins still live there or nearby. It's a cool town.

I just couldn't resist rattling Bel's cage. He takes things so fuckin' seriously it makes my nose run.

Hey to Amy and the munchkins.

 

[Huckleman2000]

I know a lot about San Diego, Suze. My uncle retired there after a career in the Navy and my cousins still live there or nearby. It's a cool town.

I just couldn't resist rattling Bel's cage. He takes things so fuckin' seriously it makes my nose run.

Hey to Amy and the munchkins.

You really are a dick. The things you take seriously have rascist and/or mysogynist overtones, and the things you seem to delight in are mean, aggressive, and not very funny at all.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You really are a dick. The things you take seriously have rascist and/or mysogynist overtones, and the things you seem to delight in are mean, aggressive, and not very funny at all.

If racism and chauvinism didnt exist we'd have to invent them. The humble white man who does all the necessary and thankless drudge work that keeps America going needs the consolation of knowing he'll never be decoration and a luxury his nation cant afford. He is the fabric of America, not the embroidery.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You really are a dick. The things you take seriously have rascist and/or mysogynist overtones, and the things you seem to delight in are mean, aggressive, and not very funny at all.

Yup.

I think the biggest differences between right and left are expressed in humor. Libs prefer humor that startles us with a discontinuity of thought, which cons seem to find too complicated to understand--
Cons simply like to make fun of other people, which libs think is either too simplistic, or else dependent on distortions and lies.

 

[a5t2b]

OK, ur attempting to reduce a lot of immigrants to "WetBacks", have u ever studied History of the USA, how many of our ancestors had "wetbacks" after sailing across the oceans, either Atlantic or Pacific Oceans to get here, to the USA? Their backs have gotten wet, in more ways than one.

Study each of u, ur background, how many of your ancestors are really American Indians? Almost 0 (none). Therefore how can u say that a 100% of ur ancestors have never gotten their backs wet?

About me, am Hispanic, born and raised in Honduras, but my last name is not typical from there, even though, am proud of being who I am. Can understand what one person, or the other can try to make it through Congress, State, and or Federal, but over here, in the USA we have checks and balances in the whole system.

Actually, if it was up to me, will have to re-do the whole educational system, since I had to learn a lot more than almost anyone knew when they did finished "High School" here in the USA.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

OK, ur attempting to reduce a lot of immigrants to "WetBacks", have u ever studied History of the USA, how many of our ancestors had "wetbacks" after sailing across the oceans, either Atlantic or Pacific Oceans to get here, to the USA? Their backs have gotten wet, in more ways than one.

Study each of u, ur background, how many of your ancestors are really American Indians? Almost 0 (none). Therefore how can u say that a 100% of ur ancestors have never gotten their backs wet?

About me, am Hispanic, born and raised in Honduras, but my last name is not typical from there, even though, am proud of being who I am. Can understand what one person, or the other can try to make it through Congress, State, and or Federal, but over here, in the USA we have checks and balances in the whole system.

Actually, if it was up to me, will have to re-do the whole educational system, since I had to learn a lot more than almost anyone knew when they did finished "High School" here in the USA.

The first thing you guys do when your raft washes up on the beach is haul ass to the welfare office to sign up for your check. Then they give you the plastic Statue of Liberty Trophy and your Affirmative Action Certificate and you go get a government job. Then you diss the people who've been here for generations and done all the goddamned work of building a nation while you were sacked out in a hammock in the jungle, swatting flies.

 

[Stella_Omega]

hello a5t2b,
Don't let jamesbjohnson get you angry-- he doesn't have anything better to do, the poor bastard. We mostly keep him on ignore.

 

[3113]

(which is why San Diegans thank gawd daily for Camp Pendleton and 100,000 Marines being between them and us!!!!

HA! Like that's going to keep you safe.

 

[TE999]

You really are a dick. The things you take seriously have rascist and/or mysogynist overtones, and the things you seem to delight in are mean, aggressive, and not very funny at all.

Yup.

I think the biggest differences between right and left are expressed in humor. Libs prefer humor that startles us with a discontinuity of thought, which cons seem to find too complicated to understand--
Cons simply like to make fun of other people, which libs think is either too simplistic, or else dependent on distortions and lies.

Wowee! When you whack the hornets nest with a stick they all come flying out.

 

[Belegon]

I just couldn't resist rattling Bel's cage. He takes things so fuckin' seriously it makes my nose run.

????????

You really need to reevaluate your priorities in life, I guess.

I took it so "fuckin' seriously" that I made the post and then left for hours. And I'm so mean-spirited that until you chose to make a post calling me out again, I failed to point out that you misspelled Tijuana.

You know, the city where Adrian Gonzalez of the Padres was born, the Mexican American in that list.

 

[TE999]

????????

You really need to reevaluate your priorities in life, I guess.

I took it so "fuckin' seriously" that I made the post and then left for hours. And I'm so mean-spirited that until you chose to make a post calling me out again, I failed to point out that you misspelled Tijuana.

You know, the city where Adrian Gonzalez of the Padres was born, the Mexican American in that list.

See post #41. Thank you.

 

[Belegon]

See post #41. Thank you.

Have fun, I guess. *shrug*

Why people actively enjoy "pushing other people's buttons" is kind of beyond me. When I discover that I have taken joy in someone else's discomfort, I feel shame and a sense that I have identified a flaw within my character that needs work.

 

[TE999]

Have fun, I guess. *shrug*

Why people actively enjoy "pushing other people's buttons" is kind of beyond me. When I discover that I have taken joy in someone else's discomfort, I feel shame and a sense that I have identified a flaw within my character that needs work.

I presume that automatically elevates you to superior status in terms of integrity, self-esteem, compassion and all that. Congratulations.

Whoops, pushed another button.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Have fun, I guess. *shrug*

Why people actively enjoy "pushing other people's buttons" is kind of beyond me. When I discover that I have taken joy in someone else's discomfort, I feel shame and a sense that I have identified a flaw within my character that needs work.

Leave insults to the professionals; amateurs such as you often end up hurting your own feelings.

The banana pickers need to know that we're not praying to Jesus every night for them to raft over to Miami and sponge up our extra cash and jobs. But, if they stay home they'll likely get a cap in their ass for being a nuisance there, too.

Every Central American school offers two career programs: picking pockets and picking bananas.

 

[PenforPrez]

It's refreshing to see some people are still thinking for themselves. I wonder how many are Libertarians? The excessive pendulum swings of left and right wing politics in this country are alienating greater numbers of the voting public. Maybe a valid third partyin the near future is a possibility.

There will never be a viable multi-issue third party in American politics. The two-party system is the homeostasis of American politics. The only time when viable third party candidates arise is in times of severe political turmoil or realignment.

America reached political maturity in the 1820's when many of the splintered factions of Jefferson's Democratic-Republicans formed around Andrew Jackson to become the modern Democratic Party. The Whig Party formed slightly later in opposition to Jackson, and the two-party system has been the norm ever since.

Since that time, nearly all of the third (and on extremely rare occasion fourth) viable options formed around a critical issue of the time--slavery in the 1840's and 50's, banks in the 1830's and '90's, progressive issues in the 1910's and '20's, segregation from the 1940's through the 70's. All of those issues were co-opted by one party or the other (slavery was the issue that founded the Republican Party in the mid-1850's) or sometimes both (both parties have quietly tolerated racially-charged candidates and still do).

In the biggest elections of turmoil (1860 and 1948), the results of the elections and subsequent circumstances allowed splinter factions to unite around one side or other. After 1860, of course, the Civil War occurred, and the infant Republican Party was able to gel as a mature party and assert dominance in American politics, with the Democrats becoming a largely regional party until the election of Woodrow Wilson.

After 1948 (when the Democrats split into three wings), most of the Northern liberals that supported Henry Wallace and many of the Southern conservatives that supported Strom Thurmond returned to the Democratic Party, at least temporarily. Many of the segregationists eventually switched to the Republicans as issues of moral turpitude became dominant (crystallized in many ways by the outrage over Roe v. Wade) and toned their racial message down (George Wallace being a notable exception until the 1980's, when he started campaigning for civil rights).

The only issue that could spawn a viable third party right now is the deficit, and we already had that in the '90s with the hilarious rise and fall of Ross Perot. The Republicans and especially the Democrats entertain a lot of varying lines of political lines of thought under their tents, and it doesn't leave a lot of room for any sort of centrist multi-issue faction to emerge.

The political pendulum does not shift as far in either direction in America as it would seem. Europe has seen far greater political shifts both to the left (Clement Attlee and Francois Mitterand in particular) and to the right (Adolf Hitler). But we certainly are in a time of political realignment in America, and a lot of the political demographic categories are in flux (upper middle class Americans are voting increasingly Democratic, working-class Americans are increasingly Republican). If Obama can accomplish his basic goals, we may very well see the new era of Democratic dominance. But a lot has yet to play out.

 

[TE999]

There will never be a viable multi-issue third party in American politics. The two-party system is the homeostasis of American politics. The only time when viable third party candidates arise is in times of severe political turmoil or realignment.

America reached political maturity in the 1820's when many of the splintered factions of Jefferson's Democratic-Republicans formed around Andrew Jackson to become the modern Democratic Party. The Whig Party formed slightly later in opposition to Jackson, and the two-party system has been the norm ever since.

Since that time, nearly all of the third (and on extremely rare occasion fourth) viable options formed around a critical issue of the time--slavery in the 1840's and 50's, banks in the 1830's and '90's, progressive issues in the 1910's and '20's, segregation from the 1940's through the 70's. All of those issues were co-opted by one party or the other (slavery was the issue that founded the Republican Party in the mid-1850's) or sometimes both (both parties have quietly tolerated racially-charged candidates and still do).

In the biggest elections of turmoil (1860 and 1948), the results of the elections and subsequent circumstances allowed splinter factions to unite around one side or other. After 1860, of course, the Civil War occurred, and the infant Republican Party was able to gel as a mature party and assert dominance in American politics, with the Democrats becoming a largely regional party until the election of Woodrow Wilson.

After 1948 (when the Democrats split into three wings), most of the Northern liberals that supported Henry Wallace and many of the Southern conservatives that supported Strom Thurmond returned to the Democratic Party, at least temporarily. Many of the segregationists eventually switched to the Republicans as issues of moral turpitude became dominant (crystallized in many ways by the outrage over Roe v. Wade) and toned their racial message down (George Wallace being a notable exception until the 1980's, when he started campaigning for civil rights).

The only issue that could spawn a viable third party right now is the deficit, and we already had that in the '90s with the hilarious rise and fall of Ross Perot. The Republicans and especially the Democrats entertain a lot of varying lines of political lines of thought under their tents, and it doesn't leave a lot of room for any sort of centrist multi-issue faction to emerge.

The political pendulum does not shift as far in either direction in America as it would seem. Europe has seen far greater political shifts both to the left (Clement Attlee and Francois Mitterand in particular) and to the right (Adolf Hitler). But we certainly are in a time of political realignment in America, and a lot of the political demographic categories are in flux (upper middle class Americans are voting increasingly Democratic, working-class Americans are increasingly Republican). If Obama can accomplish his basic goals, we may very well see the new era of Democratic dominance. But a lot has yet to play out.

An excellent and informative post, Pen. You warm a history and government junkies heart.

I find it intrigueing that the more well off are now voting Democrat, while the working class has become Republican...one would think the opposite would be true. I'm sure there are several determining factors in this shift which rates a discussion in itself.

It appears that increasing numbers of voters are dissatisfied with both parties, hence my speculation that a third party may be in the offing. Personally, I think the President and his party are approaching this ending of the recession incorrectly, but as you say, time will tell. Possibly the continuation of hard times will spark a movement to put things to rights because governmental efforts are not working as promised.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

PEN4PREZ

Both Democrats and GOP are totally discredited and in disarray. Note California where they battle over what to call nectarine juice rather than fix the budget. The GOP in Florida just enacted a ton of new taxes and penalties and fees rather than deal with the problems causing the revenue crisis. People are pissed across the nation. And both parties look like bandits fighting over who gets to shake us down. The GOP has no leadership or prospects on the horizon. About the time the Chinks cut off credit to Washington the shit will hit the fan. Its July. Obama doesnt have a prayer for putting anyone back to work by summer 2010. So something will happen, the crisis will come.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I presume that automatically elevates you to superior status in terms of integrity, self-esteem, compassion and all that.

Or at least, a goal to be aimed for.

Integrity and compassion are worth quite a lot in my scale of values. Not yours?

I find it intrigueing that the more well off are now voting Democrat, while the working class has become Republican...one would think the opposite would be true. I'm sure there are several determining factors in this shift which rates a discussion in itself.

Yes-- I remember being a poor democrat, and I know quite well that the dems take a little more interest in the less well-off. Many dems who managed to become better off still remember that.

The working class have been conned, frankly, by the republicans and an awful lot of them voted for this democratic president...