We The People

[redpaint]

Here is part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKFKGrmsBDk&feature=related

 

[trysail]

At CPI rates of inflation:
As of July, 2009

$1.00 in 1931 is equivalent to
$14.69 in 2009
or today's dollar would be worth 6.8 ¢ in 1931.


$1.00 in 1950 is equivalent to
$8.50 in 2009
or today's dollar would be worth 11.8 ¢ in 1950.


$1.00 in 1966 is equivalent to
$6.48 in 2009
or today's dollar would be worth 15.4 ¢ in 1966.


$1.00 in 1972 is equivalent to
$5.04 in 2009
or today's dollar would be worth 19.8 ¢ in 1972.


$1.00 in 1974 is equivalent to
$4.12 in 2009
or today's dollar would be worth 24.3 ¢ in 1974.


$1.00 in 1986 is equivalent to
$1.93 in 2009
or today's dollar would be worth 51.9¢ in 1986.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/fredgraph.png?&chart_type=line&graph_id=0&category_id=&recession_bars=On&width=630&height=378&bgcolor=%23B3CDE7&graph_bgcolor=%23FFFFFF&txtcolor=%23000000&preserve_ratio=true&&s_1=1&s[1][id]=CPIAUCSL&s[1][transformation]=ch1&s[1][scale]=Left&s[1][range]=Max&s[1][cosd]=1947-01-01&s[1][coed]=2009-05-01&s[1][line_color]=%230000FF&&s[1][mark_type]=NONE&s[1][line_style]=Solid&s[1][vintage_date]=2009-07-02&s[1][revision_date]=2009-07-02&s[1][mma]=0&s[1][nd]=&undefined&undefined

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And in five years with Cap and Tax a dollar in your pocket will be worth next to nothing because we'll be using Yen or Yuan to pay for things.

 

[TE999]

I'm putting DP on ignore for a while, so that him and his buddies can whine in peace.

I do wish there was an 'ignore specific threads' function.

My AH would be very slow-- but would have much more sex and writing, far less politics.

Again with the 'whining'? Cahmon!

If someone who you and your cohorts agree with puts up a socio-political thread bashing Bush, the Republicans, the evil, unjust, corrupt USA or other such topics that's okay.

However, if someone puts up a thread opposing or questioning what y'all think, all of a sudden it's 'whining'.

That's being hypocritical...everyone has a right to their own opinion...and in a mature intellectual atmosphere each opinion would be given it's due...not denigrated and mocked. Scurrilous remarks, personal assaults and playground taunts should be left at the door.

This is a place to exchange ideas, people...not start adolescent flame wars.

 

[rgraham666]

You don't understand. The planet is not in danger. We are in danger. We don't have the power to destroy life on this planet. We don't have the power to save it either. We might have the power to save ourselves.

Michael Crichton

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You don't understand. The planet is not in danger. We are in danger. We don't have the power to destroy life on this planet. We don't have the power to save it either. We might have the power to save ourselves.

Michael Crichton

Well he's quit wrong! We do have the power to destroy life on this planet! At least ten time over!

We also have the power to save life on this planet! By not using those weapons that will destroy life on this planet!

 

[trysail]

I can find just as many scientific studies to refute the ones you always present, Try.

It is impossible to attempt a discussion with those who have already closed their minds.

But reputable scientists do believe climate change is real. There have been at least seven glacial advances and retreats based on geologic varves (glacial deposits).

The issue now is not whether or not climate change happens, but whether or not the humans on this planet are negatively contributing to this happening, sooner rather than later.

It's okay if you don't believe. I cannot convince my father either, intelligent, retired Air Force man that he is.

He's much more comfortable with the status quo. He doesn't want to think about how much gas his big ol' truck guzzles, or the hassles of recycling. He is very set in his ways. He doesn't want to envision he may have to change what he does or how he thinks. He doesn't want to know.

No sense arguing.

No one is disputing climate change. Earth's climate has been changing for billions and billions of years. Climate change is the natural state of affairs.

It has been more than a bit amusing to observe the mutation of the topic's title from "anthropogenic global warming" to "climate change." That transformation has, of course, been necessitated by the inconvenient fact that former proponents of the theory of "anthropogenic global warming" are no longer quite as sure of their evidence as they once were.

What remains in dispute is what effect— if any— humans have on climate. The debate is not trivial. It wouldn't seem especially bright for a nation that is already all but bankrupt to spend trillions of dollars to fix a problem that likely doesn't exist. Such behavior would, in fact, be patently idiotic.

Prior to spending trillions of dollars and profoundly altering the affordability of a basic necessity for billions of people, one might very reasonably and logically want to verify the existence of a problem in the first place.

 

[rgraham666]

Well he's quit wrong! We do have the power to destroy life on this planet! At least ten time over!

We also have the power to save life on this planet! By not using those weapons that will destroy life on this planet!

He's right.

In the case you hypothesize life based on chemosynthesis will still exist in the Galapagos Trench and other places. So will similar life currently locked away in caves.

There are seeds and spores locked in the polar ice caps and other glacial formations. One day they will be melted free.

In each case the cycle of life will start again, find new niches and survive.

Humans just won't be around to see it.

 

[Belegon]

Again with the 'whining'? Cahmon!

But you ARE whining.

I for one never denied that I was upset or that I was whining. I paid for my right to whine the same way you hopefully paid for yours, by voting the opposition.

However, I want you to go into the archived threads on this site and find a single post where I advocated revolution. Go on. Look all you want.

The system is the system. Was I upset about the voting irregularities that, from my POV, looked very bad in 2000 and 2004? Yes, I was. Did I whine about it? Sure. I was upset.

Did/do I feel Bush was an incredible fuck up? Oh yes. Do I blame some of this recession on the deregulatory policies championed by Reagan and his ideological heirs? Absolutely.

Do I think the Bush administrations most valuable asset historically will be as a bad example? Hell yeah!

So I whined.

You know what else I did? I championed the opposition. I selected a candidate I wanted early and supported him vocally and financially. I got involved. I didn't just bitch and moan.

Guess what? My guy, the person I selected months before he was given any chance of winning... He won.

So yeah, I'm supporting him wholeheartedly and I've got his back. Deal.

 

[TE999]

But you ARE whining.

I for one never denied that I was upset or that I was whining. I paid for my right to whine the same way you hopefully paid for yours, by voting the opposition.

However, I want you to go into the archived threads on this site and find a single post where I advocated revolution. Go on. Look all you want.

The system is the system. Was I upset about the voting irregularities that, from my POV, looked very bad in 2000 and 2004? Yes, I was. Did I whine about it? Sure. I was upset.

Did/do I feel Bush was an incredible fuck up? Oh yes. Do I blame some of this recession on the deregulatory policies championed by Reagan and his ideological heirs? Absolutely.

Do I think the Bush administrations most valuable asset historically will be as a bad example? Hell yeah!

So I whined.

You know what else I did? I championed the opposition. I selected a candidate I wanted early and supported him vocally and financially. I got involved. I didn't just bitch and moan.

Guess what? My guy, the person I selected months before he was given any chance of winning... He won.

So yeah, I'm supporting him wholeheartedly and I've got his back. Deal.

Ummm...since when is calling for a reasonable tone and some maturity in a discussion whining? I don't care whom you voted for and whether you liked the previous administration or not or like this one. That's not the issue.

It annoys me when the opinion of others is denigrated and jeered at by assumedly intelligent people. Then it sounds like the bile spewed on blogs.

BHO may be the Savior of the World or the captain of the Titanic...only time will tell. Meanwhile it would be refreshing to have a reasonable discussion about the pros and cons of issues of the day without playing the blame game, finger pointing and name calling.

 

[DesertPirate]

Not during your lifetime, perhaps.

But what about your great grandchildren?

Isn't it time to plan for the future, rather than just reacting to everyday events?

Climate change isn't a political issue. It's science.

Just like the coming ice age these same clowns were predicting in the 70's? I'm still waiting!

 

[DesertPirate]

Spew it like you're doing here?

I'm sorry...I must've done something to make you think I give a rat's ass what you think. Allow me to correct that now. I don't.

The biggest hate monger on the whole damn site!
Almost makes me wonder if she studied hate speech in school or did it just come natural?

 

[cloudy]

The biggest hate monger on the whole damn site!
Almost makes me wonder if she studied hate speech in school or did it just come natural?

You obviously are two slow to grasp subtlety, or you'd realize that I hate very few people, but y'all get on my last fucking nerve with your worshiping of Faux News, and your conviction that whatever they tell you, you must follow along like sheep, and spout the same tired nonsense over and over.

Do any of you ever think for yourself? Ever?

I bet your wife lays your damn clothes out in the morning for you, otherwise you'd have to actually think, and it's readily apparent that you do known of that at all.

 

[DesertPirate]

You obviously are two slow to grasp subtlety, or you'd realize that I hate very few people, but y'all get on my last fucking nerve with your worshiping of Faux News, and your conviction that whatever they tell you, you must follow along like sheep, and spout the same tired nonsense over and over.

Do any of you ever think for yourself? Ever?

I bet your wife lays your damn clothes out in the morning for you, otherwise you'd have to actually think, and it's readily apparent that you do known of that at all.

Ah the master of the personal attack has spoken and shall not be questioned or I will be a bigot.
Never says anything intelligent, just personal attacks, what a sad existance you have.

 

[TE999]

The biggest hate monger on the whole damn site!
Almost makes me wonder if she studied hate speech in school or did it just come natural?

You obviously are two slow to grasp subtlety, or you'd realize that I hate very few people, but y'all get on my last fucking nerve with your worshiping of Faux News, and your conviction that whatever they tell you, you must follow along like sheep, and spout the same tired nonsense over and over.

Do any of you ever think for yourself? Ever?

I bet your wife lays your damn clothes out in the morning for you, otherwise you'd have to actually think, and it's readily apparent that you do known of that at all.

Well, so much for rational discourse.

Y'all make sure to wash your hands when you're done throwing shit at each other.

 

[slyc_willie]

Lava

 

[Dragonlipz]

Ummm...since when is calling for a reasonable tone and some maturity in a discussion whining? I don't care whom you voted for and whether you liked the previous administration or not or like this one. That's not the issue.

It annoys me when the opinion of others is denigrated and jeered at by assumedly intelligent people. Then it sounds like the bile spewed on blogs.

BHO may be the Savior of the World or the captain of the Titanic...only time will tell. Meanwhile it would be refreshing to have a reasonable discussion about the pros and cons of issues of the day without playing the blame game, finger pointing and name calling.

You and yours lost - get the fuck over it and get on with rebuilding this wonderful notion of freedom, opportunity and equality - not for yourself but for your children and theirs......big concept for small minds.......

 

[Dragonlipz]

Just like the coming ice age these same clowns were predicting in the 70's? I'm still waiting!

Sitting on yer ass doesn't accomplish anything........you are one sorry excuse.......

 

[Dragonlipz]

No one is disputing climate change. Earth's climate has been changing for billions and billions of years. Climate change is the natural state of affairs.

It has been more than a bit amusing to observe the mutation of the topic's title from "anthropogenic global warming" to "climate change." That transformation has, of course, been necessitated by the inconvenient fact that former proponents of the theory of "anthropogenic global warming" are no longer quite as sure of their evidence as they once were.

What remains in dispute is what effect— if any— humans have on climate. The debate is not trivial. It wouldn't seem especially bright for a nation that is already all but bankrupt to spend trillions of dollars to fix a problem that likely doesn't exist. Such behavior would, in fact, be patently idiotic.

Prior to spending trillions of dollars and profoundly altering the affordability of a basic necessity for billions of people, one might very reasonably and logically want to verify the existence of a problem in the first place.

Ah, yes.....trillions and trillions....isn't that a book by Carl Sagan?........
The facts are TS that the theorists of Global Warming are more convinced than ever of the inevitability of Global Warming.....what remains is our feeble attempt to mitigate it in the face of rampant stupidity and denial........
I'm glad you don't have kids.........

 

[TE999]

Lava

*snerk* It cleans mouths as well as hands.

 

[slyc_willie]

*snerk* It cleans mouths as well as hands.

That's the theory, anyway.

 

[Guest]

Just like the coming ice age these same clowns were predicting in the 70's? I'm still waiting!

Not clowns. Scientists.

The best and the brightest of us all.

The ones who find cures, prolong our lives, invent and discover.

Intelligence should not be so easily disregarded.

 

[slyc_willie]

Not clowns. Scientists.

The best and the brightest of us all.

The ones who find cures, prolong our lives, invent and discover.

Intelligence should not be so easily disregarded.

In the field of science, it is not always intelligence that wins the day, but often ego and tenacity. There are numerous good scientists out there whose theories and evidence are often discounted because they lack the funding, backing, patience, confidence, whatever, to persistently present their ideas.

As well, there are many who advance a theory based more upon supposition than evidence. And evidence is always challenged, manipulated and interpreted to different degrees. It takes a lot to have even the most sound theory accepted at large as a truism. Galileo and Newton would attest to that.

 

[Guest]

In the field of science, it is not always intelligence that wins the day, but often ego and tenacity. There are numerous good scientists out there whose theories and evidence are often discounted because they lack the funding, backing, patience, confidence, whatever, to persistently present their ideas.

As well, there are many who advance a theory based more upon supposition than evidence. And evidence is always challenged, manipulated and interpreted to different degrees. It takes a lot to have even the most sound theory accepted at large as a truism. Galileo and Newton would attest to that.

Of course. That goes without saying.

Even today, depending upon the political climate (or dictatorship) scientists are often not allowed to present their information to the world. For example, during the last administration they could only present selected bits. The science was censored to conform to the political views.

Now? I'm just weary of intelligence being ridiculed. I'm tired of facts being sneered at. I'm disgusted with the casual dismissal of hard work and serious scholarly study for social or political gain.

I don't care what level of education people attain in school. That's beside the point.

It's the abject refusal to admit that what they picked up in high school may no longer be relevant that amazes me.

Science is kinetic, a constantly changing field. And that's a good thing.

But - this is not the thread to argue that, it seems.

I really have other things I should be doing. Goodnight.

 

[slyc_willie]

But - this is not the thread to argue that, it seems.

I really have other things I should be doing. Goodnight.

Yeah, this probably isn't the forum. But, as much as you bemoan the ignorance of facts, I bemoan the advancement of unproven "truths." From some points of view, they are the same thing.

Anyway, back to the topic . . . hopefully . . . .