The Big Lie: Marriage and "Tradition"[/B] (An Open Letter to Obama)

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This is just so beautifully said... (Bolds are mine)

The Big Lie: Marriage and "Tradition" (An Open Letter to Obama)
By Melvina Young, Kansas City Star Midwest Voices columnist 2007


Dear Barack (I can still call you “Barack,” right?)

If you have any plans for the rights of gay and lesbian Americans that don’t involve high speed and a very large bus, it’s time to say what those are.

Because in the battle for the equal rights of gays, lesbians and their families you’ve been MIA. Especially on two recent and very visible fronts: “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” and securing same-sex marriage.

Given the chance to confront “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” directly by using presidential authority given you under federal law to retain any member of the military the President deems critical to our national security, you appear to be letting “DADT” push out West Point graduate, Army National Guard Officer, Iraqi war vet and Arabic language expert, Dan Choi.

We get that you’re a cautious man. Nobody operating in the vicinity of reality expected a Harry Trumanesque “sexual orientation desegregation” of the U.S. military through executive order. (Though that kind of political bravery would have been incredible coming from the nation’s first black President.) Still, short of stopping the military from ousting Choi, even some symbolic sign of support for him and the more than 12,500 military men and women ousted under DADT would be greatly appreciated.

Then last week your Justice Department submitted a brief in support of the Defense of Marriage Act, an inherently biased law which not only denies same-sex couples federal benefits of marriage but allows individual states the right to deny recognition of marriages performed in other states.

That was shocking and disappointing.

What was painful and outrageous was that the Justice Department brief appropriated DOMA’s insidious language analogizing homosexuality and same-sex marital relationships to incestuous relationships.

What was devastating was that by disclaiming DOMA’s violation of the Constitution’s “full faith and credit” clause, the Justice Department has opened the door to the creation of several “separate and unequal” classes of marriage within the United States, with same-sex marriage receiving a big red “second class” stamp across the face.

Not only does DOMA clearly discriminate against same-sex couples and families headed by same-sex couples, but your Justice Department is helping it move forward on a lie: that two-partner, heterosexual marriage is the “traditional and universally recognized form of marriage.”

That lie is based on a bigger lie that one often hears touted by religious opponents of same-sex marriage: that marriage itself has been an unchanging and unchangeable institution for two thousand years.

Leaving aside the history of legalized same-sex marriage in pre-modern Europe and Asia (You may be interested to see the works of university professors John Boswell, Gary Leupp and William Eskridge) and the failure of current nations which have recently legalized same-sex marriage to fall to ruin and make their dying flops onto that “dustbin of history” Pat Robertson warns about, over historical time and geographical space “traditional” marriage has looked many different ways.

Depending on the time, society, economy and “tradition” under question, traditional marriage has taken polygamous (one man, multiple wives) and even polyandrous (one woman, multiple husbands) forms as well as the opposite-sex couple formation currently fetishized. Even this is a laughably broad and simplistic characterization of the history of human marriage.

Not only has marriage changed greatly over the course of thousands of years, but it’s changed substantially in our own nation’s short history. Most often as a result of the demands of democracy itself.

American democracy has demanded the inclusion of formerly excluded groups and forged change in the rights of individuals within marriage as the rights of less empowered partners (women) had to be increasingly considered under the law.

Stick with me. I’ve got a couple of actual examples:

One hundred forty years ago enslaved blacks had neither rights of legal marriage nor rights in the ownership of their children. Marriage rights for enslaved blacks would have undermined the property ownership rights of white slaveholders who supplied plenty of biblical and legal support for slavery. Consequently, marriage, as recognized under the state, wasn’t between “one man and one woman.” It was between “one white man and one white woman.”

The end of the Civil War, the destruction of slavery and the federal protections of Reconstruction allowed most African Americans the attainment of the emotional enjoyment, economic security and civil protections of legal marriage for the first time. Something which could not have been imagined even five years before when marriage between enslaved couples hinged on slaveholder whim and the availability of a broom.

One hundred twenty years ago, white women were still legally “covered” in their marriages. Under “laws of coverture” women didn’t have the right of ownership of property or children. Nor did they have the right to enter contracts (though this varied somewhat by state with progressive states offering more rights and conservative states restricting them.) A woman’s property given by her father became her husband’s to control. Nor did most women have the right of divorce despite physical or sexual abuse, or economic mismanagement or deprivation. In a world where white men held economic and political power, women seeking divorce were bound to lose any economic security, their children, their social standing and their reputation as “honorable.”

But it’s only been within the last three decades that many provisions within marriage we take for granted were won. For example, women won the right to get credit in their own names, or have an equal say in where their families would reside More importantly, as women’s rights activists agitated against the right of husbands to force sex in the marital bed, married women won legal protections against marital rape. (Before the 1970s there was no such thing as “rape” in marriage.)

And, a little over fifty years ago, interracial marriage was against the law in over half the states of the union. Moreover, it was denied federal recognition until the Supreme Court decided Loving vs. Virginia in 1967. In the year that you were born, Mr. Obama your own parents would have been denied the right to marry in over 19 states.

As American democracy has expanded and demanded that the rights of individuals be respected, marriage changed too. Why not now?

If you can understand that being gay is a natural, healthy state of being which can’t be changed through “reparative therapies” (as does the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychiatric Association and the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry) how can you not fight fully and forcefully to affect equal rights for gay and lesbian Americans?

If you follow the latest evidence that children are discerning they are gay at increasingly younger ages - years before sexual desire or the urge to sleep with another person or “live a lifestyle” emerges - how can you not support giving gay and lesbian persons full access to equality?

If you are devoted to the welfare, health, happiness and equality of all our nation’s children, how can you commit at least 10% of those children to less than 100% of that health, happiness and equality?

If you note the number of religious communities which openly accept and affirm gay, lesbian and transgendered people because they see how far we stand as human beings from where God would have us be, and you realize how other denominations are sincerely wrestling with their spiritual brothers and sisters (much as churches did over the issue of racial segregation just 50 years ago) why aren’t you wrestling harder and faster?

You have the historical perspective to realize that against each and every one of these groups (African-Americans, women, interracial couples) scripture was cited and “What God wants” was invoked.

Now, in the clarity of hindsight, we can see that the deep and sincere religious conviction of southern segregationists was as wrong as those of Christian men (and women) fearful of giving women the vote and equality in marriage, and as misguided as those of religious whites who believed allowing interracial couples to marry violated God’s law.

Have we yet to learn the lesson that God’s love is boundless and wide? It’s human understanding that is far too narrow.

Finally if you are a believer in our Constitutional creed that “All men are created equal” and have the historical understanding that group after group in our great nation (African Americans, white women, Native Americans, Asians, Mexican-Americans, the disabled) have had to fight against the “tyranny of the majority” to become part of that “All men,” why won’t you put the full force of your power behind ensuring the entrance of this group of Americans?

During your campaign you often criticized then President Bush for being hermetically sealed in a “bubble” of privilege and power. For losing touch with “normal, everyday” people and their problems. You appeared to have empathy with other human beings across a spectrum of identity, experience and purpose.

But since your own ascent to the highest office in the land, you seem to have forgotten those “normal, everyday people” who don’t have the right to claim their families legally; who don’t have the right to claim marital recognition under the 1,138 statutory provisions the Government Accountability Office asserts determine the rights, privileges and responsibilities of marriage; who don’t have the equal right to secure their property and assure inheritance for their families; who don’t have the right to assumed and uncontested custody of their children nor the equal right to foster or adopt other children; who don’t have the right to insure all family members medically or even make medical decisions for them; who don’t have the right to know the fate of partners fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan before “approved family members” know and decide to tell them; who don’t even have the automatic right to sit beside the deathbed of a lifelong partner.

Barack, during the campaign you appeared to be a man who’d take the fact of each American’s human pain with you through the doors of high office. You appeared to be a man ready to use the power bestowed upon you by our trust to do what is right in the name of democracy, justice and equality.

For those Americans within the LGBT community and the straight people who love and stand beside them, I must ask you: Have appearances been deceiving?

I've gotta ask, too: Have appearances been deceiving?
 
If you have any plans for the rights of gay and lesbian Americans that don’t involve high speed and a very large bus
...and Keanu Reeves? :confused:

I have nothing substantial to say about the op ed. Seems fairly right on to me. But seriously, what's she referring to there at the top? Some expression I have missed?
 
...and Keanu Reeves? :confused:

I have nothing substantial to say about the op ed. Seems fairly right on to me. But seriously, what's she referring to there at the top? Some expression I have missed?

It is hoping that Obama doesn't throw us under a speeding bus in the name of political expediency. (i.e. let's give up the gay vote, by not keeping our promises, in exchange for keeping the Latino vote, etc.)
 
Gays make what I call the 'cannibalism' argument. That is:

You eat what you want, so I should eat what I want, and its true that some societies were cannibals. Therefore I have a civil right to eat people.
 
This is just so beautifully said... (Bolds are mine)



I've gotta ask, too: Have appearances been deceiving?

Just now figuring out that he said anything that would get him elected?:rolleyes:


He's throwing us under the bus...
 
Wanna check whose most strongly against gay marriage again? I doubt that we're going to get much help from Obama but would love to be proven wrong.
 
I told you weeks ago that Obama supported DOMA and Prop 8, and all of you have your heads up your asses.
 
You cant be more wrong. Only in your imagination has marriage ever been more than an a monogamous union of opposite sexes in Western Civilization. The Mormons dont count because theyre fucking weird and their polygamy wasnt lawful.
 
Obama's methodically screwing over everyone who voted for him with the approval of his own party...his campaign rhetoric hit the wall of Washington's reality and is smoking in the infield. Ain't politics wonderful? :rolleyes:
 
Another important point is that the relationship between marriage and the church has changed over the years. Marriage used to be one of those things wich was 'rendered unto Caesar", i.e. a civil, rather than religious matter. Until the 1500s, marriage was achieved by cohabitation with the intent to marry, and couples would frequently have an entirely civil 'handfasting' to declare their intent to marry, with a church wedding later if they could afford it.

So the idea of heterosexual marriage as a fundamental tenet of Christianity displays a real lack of historical awareness.

Damn, Bunny, you are my kind of educated girl! Yes, yes, yes. In the past, all marriages were arranged and they took place to protect family wealth and ensure continued family existence. Then the Vatican saw a way to increase its income and declared marriage another Sacrament. It wasn't, it ain't and there is no reason why it should be. It's a civil contract, pure and simple.
 
Damn, Bunny, you are my kind of educated girl! Yes, yes, yes. In the past, all marriages were arranged and they took place to protect family wealth and ensure continued family existence. Then the Vatican saw a way to increase its income and declared marriage another Sacrament. It wasn't, it ain't and there is no reason why it should be. It's a civil contract, pure and simple.

That's also why the Vatican decided that priests, bishops and cardinals couldn't marry. Too much of their wealth was going to their families and decendants...instead to the Holy Mother Church where it belonged. :rolleyes:
 
VM is full of it, too. He really needs to crack a few books.

Marriage exists to protect property. Most places on Earth, when kiddies have no wealth they fuck indiscriminantly and promiscuously. Once they have wealth or a rug rat they become potential victims for fraud, so you get married to lock-up the family jewels.

The church and the state became involved in marriage when Junior & Sis tried to make whoopee with trash the parents disapproved of. Daddy gave the rector or prince a sack of gold, and they told Sis to fuggedaboutit. Its the village thang Hillary whoops about.
 
To be fair, Obama, like Hillary Clinton, ran on a platform of "Separate but equal", supporting civil unions but not "Gay Marriage". If I recall, only Dennis Kucinich was actually in favor of Gay Marriage of the '08 democratic candidates. I'm fairly sure Edwards and Richardson were also in the "Civil Unions" camp.

I think the hope was that there was a lot more *wink* going on, and that Obama would govern as a radical leftist, the kind that Limbaugh and company claimed he would be and certain members of this board think he is.

Obama at some level is a centrist. He has his political battles to fight. Iraq, health care, Guantanomo and the environment are all major messes to clean up. It doesn't serve anyone's interest for him to go balls out on a somewhat unpopular issue at this stage in the game.

Imagine how bad McCain would have been right now. Now imagine if Obama makes Gay Marriage his #1 issue, moderate voters turn against the democratic party, and the Republicans win landslides in '10 and '12. Do you think things will be better, or worse then?

It's going to take some time for moderate voters to adjust to the idea of gay marriage, and frankly, a few more old people need to pass on. The kind of changes many of us do ultimately want to see are typically second term kind of reforms. Unfortunately we all need to wait a few more years. We lost Prop 8 in CALIFORNIA of all places! And while the No on 8 campaign was poorly run, changing hearts and minds takes time, and the political capital just doesn't seem to be there in a lot of states and nationally just yet.
 
Changing hearts and minds takes no time at all when people understand what their best interest is.

We demonstrated this in 1965 when we elected a black to our city commission. He was the first black elected to anything in Florida, and the election was in the midst of the civil rights struggle and plenty of racial animosity. So how did it happen in a small Southern town that produced an annual minstrel show?

For one, William Blackshear was a first class citizen. Army veteran with combat service in Korea, college trained engineer, married w/4 kids, he was a community activist, and he wasnt a fucking thief or narcissist.

His contenders were petty tyrants who absorbed plentiful city resources feathering their own nests and fighting amongst themselves. Four white candidates opposed Blackshear, and he won. He won because people were sick of the bullshit at city hall and he was a new broom for the Chamber of Commerce to do some house-cleaning with.

My mother was president of the CoC, and my old man owned a business, and it was impossible to do business with city hall because of corruption from top to bottom. Blackshear was an opportunity to takeout some of the trash.

If I were handling gays I'd package them the same. That is, their agenda isnt about THEM its about US. But the gays have a serious handicap: They are the Democrat's prison bitches and refuse to compromise with conservatives on anything the Right wants. The Right has no incentives to help gays.
 
To be fair, Obama, like Hillary Clinton, ran on a platform of "Separate but equal", supporting civil unions but not "Gay Marriage".

Exactly. The hopeful extrapolated his "promises" to mean something that he never said.

And, he hasn't been MIA on the issue. He's just not been doing things in the manner the hopeful want them done. I absolutely want DOMA repealed, but I don't see Obama doing it. Instead, I see Obama setting in motion a series of actions that will enable the courts to do so. That's smart politics.

After all, Obama won't be in any position to help this or any other cause if he pisses off enough people to vote him out of office. Why do that when he can manipulate the situation and let someone else take the heat for the desired outcome?

He has (through Hillary) extended benefits to same sex couples in diplomatic service abroad. He has extended benefits to same sex couples who are federally employed. These two -- seemingly narrow -- steps will have far-reaching repercussions when the legal system starts sinking their teeth into them & citing them as precedent in future cases.

I have never viewed Obama as a gay marriage champion, but he is better than that other guy he ran against.

Change IS happening (albeit not as quickly as I'd prefer).
 
Presidents like Lincoln and Jackson sidetracked the courts and virtually ignored them. Jackson told the courts to enforce their orders if they could. They couldnt. Lincoln blew them off, too. But they were great leaders, and great leaders dont duck or cut & run. They advance their programs by hook or crook.

But we live in a different time. Obama isnt Jackson or Lincoln or Washington or Roosevelt. He's a party hack from corrupt Chicago who talks shit and does as he's told.

Since Bush41 political leaders have abdicated the tough choices to the courts. The courts now legislate.
 
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AG brief is posted.

I've posted the url of the AG's brief to dismiss the challenge to DOMA, full text, in another thread. it is the brief that melvina young, in the OP, is commenting on.
 
You cant be more wrong. Only in your imagination has marriage ever been more than an a monogamous union of opposite sexes in Western Civilization. The Mormons dont count because theyre fucking weird and their polygamy wasnt lawful.
Uh, people do it, so clearly, the argument that marriage, which is after all a form of incorporation for all practical purposes, is strictly and solely for the purposes of reproduction is specious.

People form pair bonds for all kinds of reasons other than sex, this would make corporations and business partnerships forms of homo and polysexual marriage.

Monogamous heterosexual marriage is generally done with reproduction in mind, but the reasons that any two particular people choose to form a pair bond initially can be myriad and complex.

And equating it with cannibalism is about as rational as equating it with pedophilia.

In short, you want to sound like a crusty realist, but you sound like a hysterical bitch.
 
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