The power of music

[CharleyH]

Music may not have any real power in erotic or non-erotic writing. I like to reference music in my writing to set a tone or mood for me as a writer, but usually mention music to either refer to a specific period of time or a specific metaphor or theme I think important. As a writer, I hope that just as any reader would look up a word that they were not familiar with, they'd also look up a piece of music that an author mentions in a story, but I cannot count on it. As an author, I know I cannot use music to elicit emotion from my readers because some readers might get it (hear it), and many might not.

Movies, on the other hand, use music to elicit emotion. Music is a powerful thing in a movie. Today we went to see the film 'All The Boys Love Mandy Lane'. Our expectations were not high, but we loved the trailers and thought we would give it a turn. This is one movie that, without the soundtrack, would be completely lost. It wasn't a great film, but it was styled as a homage to both the 70's crime and 80's slasher films. When in diagetic space (real film space and time), the radio often played modern music, or at least oldies sung by modern bands to my knowledge. When music played extra diagetically (from a source outside the space and time of the characters), it always seemed like oldies, for example, Bobby Vinton's 'Sealed with a Kiss'. The choice of 70's music, even if you didn't grow up with 70's music, gave the film a whole ballad feel. Take away the 70's and early 80's music from the film and replace it with modern music, you don't get the same innocence from Mandy Lane, the same nostalgia for a time when high-school love really mattered, or the same passionate lust driving men to do anything - anything - for a woman.

How do you feel about music references in stories?

What is the most moving (emotional) piece of music you have ever hear heard in a film?

 

[Saucy_Sage]

Eighty percent of the music references I read seem forced, like someone is trying too hard to establish a time period or a mood. Never tried it myself; must be very difficult. When it's done well, it works great.

The most moving music I remember is the score to Branagh's Henry V. But then, I also like the reprise of "Do-Re-Mi" in the Sound of Music, where they're onstage at the festival. Always get goosebumps hearing that. Maybe I'm not the best one to answer.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Music may not have any real power in erotic or non-erotic writing. I like to reference music in my writing to set a tone or mood for me as a writer, but usually mention music to either refer to a specific period of time or a specific metaphor or theme I think important. As a writer, I hope that just as any reader would look up a word that they were not familiar with, they'd also look up a piece of music that an author mentions in a story, but I cannot count on it. As an author, I know I cannot use music to elicit emotion from my readers because some readers might get it (hear it), and many might not.

Movies, on the other hand, use music to elicit emotion. Music is a powerful thing in a movie. Today we went to see the film 'All The Boys Love Mandy Lane'. Our expectations were not high, but we loved the trailers and thought we would give it a turn. This is one movie that, without the soundtrack, would be completely lost. It wasn't a great film, but it was styled as a homage to both the 70's crime and 80's slasher films. When in diagetic space (real film space and time), the radio often played modern music, or at least oldies sung by modern bands to my knowledge. When music played extra diagetically (from a source outside the space and time of the characters), it always seemed like oldies, for example, Bobby Vinton's 'Sealed with a Kiss'. The choice of 70's music, even if you didn't grow up with 70's music, gave the film a whole ballad feel. Take away the 70's and early 80's music from the film and replace it with modern music, you don't get the same innocence from Mandy Lane, the same nostalgia for a time when high-school love really mattered, or the same passionate lust driving men to do anything - anything - for a woman.

How do you feel about music references in stories?

What is the most moving (emotional) piece of music you have ever hear heard in a film?

In the first of The Lord of the Rings films, there's a scene where Arwen takes the wounded Frodo at full gallop towards the House of Elrond pursued by the Black Riders. Any music like that makes me cry--though for what, I have no idea.

 

[Elianna]

I took a class that was all about music in film. It was awesome. They had some movies that didn't have the music dubbed and played it for us. Then they played the same scene with the music. Amazing.

Actually, this is very silly, but I always found Disney movies to have the best music (probably because most of them are musicals). Still to this day I love The Lion King. There is something very moving about African Tribal-inspired chants and dances for me. There were some very powerful moments in the score of that film (not just the fun musical songs) that still give me shivers, even when I'm not watching the movie.

Sometimes you can like a movie and find that the music doesn't function well without the film. They must be together to get the correct effect. I think that is the key to a really good film score. Is the music moving without?

As for music in stories. I never really thought about it. I don't usually hear songs when I read, nor do I write them in. I think that's because music is very experiential. Music for me is dissection of the tonal harmony, the dynamics, rhythm. That can't be put into a book for me. It's just like looking at a page of music. It doesn't come alive until you hear a performance. Therefore I don't think it does much when you read about a song.

Oh. Philadelphia. When he's talking about love during the Maria Callas Aria. GOD. That was powerful.

There you go.

 

[silverwhisper]

nifty topic, charley!

charley queried:
how do you feel about music references in stories?

i think that as a rule, it can be very effective in setting mood for the reader. however, there are always 2 dangers in doing this:

1. you might reference a work with which the reader is unfamiliar. that's just a missed opportunity, though: not every reader will catch literary references you might sprinkle into your work, either. i'm a big fan of miriam makeba's sing me a song, but if you're not familiar with her work, i've pretty much wasted a few words there.

2. a much greater danger, at least to me, is referencing a work that has a very well-known association. if you talk about the liberty bell and its bright & cheery horns in some kind of serious context, you're going to lose your reader, b/c that's the music used in the credits of monty python's flying circus and is known fairly well as such.

i generally avoid incorporating music in the material i write unless i feel pretty confident most readers will know the piece i'm referencing, and there aren't any associations with anything else.

charley queried:
what is the most moving (emotional) piece of music you have ever hear heard in a film?

for me, the music that plays during the final charge in glory--although like saucy sage, i'm a big fan of the henry v soundtrack, esp in the scene during the battle of agincourt.

ed

 

[CharleyH]

Eighty percent of the music references I read seem forced, like someone is trying too hard to establish a time period or a mood. Never tried it myself; must be very difficult. When it's done well, it works great.

The most moving music I remember is the score to Branagh's Henry V. But then, I also like the reprise of "Do-Re-Mi" in the Sound of Music, where they're onstage at the festival. Always get goosebumps hearing that. Maybe I'm not the best one to answer.

I won't comment on writing music just yet, but if you could give a link sampling Branagh's 'Henry V', that would be great. If not, no problem. Why does it move you?

There are a couple of newer films whose soundtrack pieces make me cry, but I have no idea who wrote them at this moment. I can say (I'm sure I've said before) that when Der Morgige Tag Ist Mein is sung in the movie 'Caberet' and the camera pans down to the Nazi symbol, the tears just well and flow and when everyone joins in, I just lose it. Of course, when Catherine Deneuve and Susan Sarandon get it going on to Lakme (opera piece) in The Hunger ... yowza! Horny hardly covers it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I took a class that was all about music in film. It was awesome. They had some movies that didn't have the music dubbed and played it for us. Then they played the same scene with the music. Amazing.

Actually, this is very silly, but I always found Disney movies to have the best music (probably because most of them are musicals). Still to this day I love The Lion King. There is something very moving about African Tribal-inspired chants and dances for me. There were some very powerful moments in the score of that film (not just the fun musical songs) that still give me shivers, even when I'm not watching the movie.

Sometimes you can like a movie and find that the music doesn't function well without the film. They must be together to get the correct effect. I think that is the key to a really good film score. Is the music moving without?

As for music in stories. I never really thought about it. I don't usually hear songs when I read, nor do I write them in. I think that's because music is very experiential. Music for me is dissection of the tonal harmony, the dynamics, rhythm. That can't be put into a book for me. It's just like looking at a page of music. It doesn't come alive until you hear a performance. Therefore I don't think it does much when you read about a song.

Oh. Philadelphia. When he's talking about love during the Maria Callas Aria. GOD. That was powerful.

There you go.

I'll post some music you'll like if you like African music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCI6z0mU__0&feature=related

 

[jomar]

John Sandford handles his love of music in a fun way in his books. In one, Davenport (Prey series) has been given an iPod and is trying to come up with the greatest 100 rock songs. So this is sprinkled throughout the book as he chats with people about it while on a stakeout or standing over a dead body. In another series, he has the main character wearing t-shirts with relatively obscure bands on the front - that get comments. It doesn't set mood, but enhances the character.

 

[Handley_Page]

I'm a big fan of the henry v soundtrack, esp in the scene during the battle of agincourt.

ed

but which sound track. Olivier or Brannagh ?
William Walton or ( dunno )

 

[silverwhisper]

sorry, i ought to have been specific: i was referring to the branagh version. sadly, i've not yet seen the olivier film.

ed

[adds to netflix queue]

 

[Saucy_Sage]

but which sound track. Olivier or Brannagh ?
William Walton or ( dunno )

dunno is Patrick Doyle.

On youtube, take a look at the Agincourt speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAvmLDkAgAM and Non nobis, domine (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=70C14FC7523B831F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&v=ewbuPY3uGQ4

 

[Weird Harold]

How do you feel about music references in stories?

I generally don't rely on the name of a song to set the mood by itself and add some sort of descriptor of how the POV character feels about that particular piece of music. That way even a completely fictional song title or artist can serve the purpose of having music in the story if necessary and real songs/artists are only a side benefit for those who recognise the reference.

What is the most moving (emotional) piece of music you have ever hear heard in a film?

Also Sprach Zarathustra as the opening theme/fanfare to 2001 is about the most memorable for me.

However, I can't name a single song from the best use of music in a film I've ever encountered: The Heavy Metal Movie. As an animated movie the action is choreographed precisely to match the music and the action and music support each other seamlessly so that separating them becomes virtually impossible. When I do come across a song from that movie it invariably invokes images from the movie even nearly 40 years later.

It's difficult for me to pick other examples of "best use of music in a movie" because when it's done right, the music supports the action without being memorable in its own right.

 

[Liar]

Don't depend on 'em, I'd say.

Referencing to specific music pieces in stories is like referencing to specific people - it only makes sense if the reader knows exactly what you're talking about.

"She looked like Lauren Bacall" doesn't mean a thing to someone who don't recognise the name, but can mean a whole lot to those who do. However, if you add some context, "She had that old-school sultry movie star look, like a Lauren Bacall poster", it's all you need to be incluseíve of the occasional ignorant reader. Same thing with music. I rather describe it than merely reference to it.

On the other hand, it might be a good trade-off to reference directly to a song, if it makes those readers who DO know what you're talking about enjoy the story so much more, and feel included in the author's world. There are entire books based around that idea. "High Fidelity" comes to mind.

 

[amicus]

I think I used a musical reference to "The Lambada", the forbidden dance, in a scene in a short story, now included in a collection, but I interlinked the couple, the dance and the music to paint a scene where the name of the piece became unimportant...

But let me piss off the peanut gallery by stating that 'music' is Universal to the species and that music and dancing are merely sex in an upright position if done well.

Some instruments imitate the human voice range, usually the female and all rhythm, is the rhythm of life, of sex, of intercourse, not just the beat but the dynamic rise and fall; the prelude, the intermezzo, the climax or conclusion and the resolution.

Tempo matches the heartbeat. Were I more expert musically I could make endless comparisons to music and not just sex, but love, affection and empathy. Thus while reference to a particular piece will be lost on most or many, the inclusion of a general reference to music in literature is sometime essential to relating the mood to the reader.

That be my opinion.... Nice thread start!

Amicus...

 

[slyc_willie]

I like referencing songs in my stories; I've done it in several already posted here on Lit, and I still want to write an adaption of Sting's "Love Is Stronger Than Justice." To be honest, whether a reader 'gets it' or not isn't really a consideration, although I think I pick fairly well-known songs when I use them in stories. Under the philosophy of "writers write for themselves," that works just fine for me.

Music, for me, is one of the best parts of a movie. The absence of it can be used to good effect, such as the scene toward the end of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly in which Blondie, Tuco and Angel Eyes are all squaring off. There's this hypnotic beat going as the three men look back and forth at one another, then silence . . . and you know the film's at that decisive moment.

This is probably a typical "guy" answer, but the film Conan has some pretty good use of music. It's all original Basil Poledouris (who did a good job with the score for Hunt For Red October, too) and it's epic, powerful, gutsy stuff. When Thulsa Doom and his lackeys are riding down over the steppe toward Conan and Subotai, the music builds and builds until it literally explodes with the action.

On the other side of the coin, the love theme to Cousins (Ted Danson and Isabella Rossellini) is one of my favorite pieces of all time, and one of the reasons why I still love the film.

 

[TE999]

I wrote a story based around the Glen Miller swing music hit of the '30's'. 'Kelly's Moonlight Serenade' is about two female lovers in a present day swing revival band. 'Moonlight ' is one of my most favorite songs of the Swing Era.

The movie score, often the opening theme music like the James Bond series, draws you into the movies' world and holds you there until the credits roll. Ditto the 'Star Wars' theme and score...especially the first movie (actually the fourth).

Disneys' 'Fantasia' was ahead of it's time and consequently was a flop when released. Since the '60's it's been recognized as one of the studios best films. The all classical music score and the animation are superb.

 

[Boota]

If I have ever referenced music in my writing I'm not aware of it. I've mentioned bands and I've invented my own bands as characters, such as Rugmuncher, the aggressive, obnoxious lesbian punk band in Mr. Undesirable. I know a lot of writers who listen to music when they write and I can't do that. I think that, mainly, because I'm a musician if I hear music I get caught up in it and forget to write.

As far as music in movies I have seen more cases where the wrong music has taken me out of the experience than where something really caught my attention. The movie Ladyhawke is one example. An 80's techno/disco-ish soundtrack for a sword and sorcery type film just grated on me. On the other end of the spectrum, Mark Knopflers simple acoustic guitar on The Princess Bride sucked me in to the point where I was losing track of the film and just getting into the music. I have the soundtrack CD in my car right now.

Probably the most effective use of use I've seen is when it used to juxtapose what is on screen. I walked in on something my mom was watching once and it got my attention. I think it was a soap opera, actually. There was a woman singing a soft lullaby to her newborn, just a solo voice, no other sound at all. The scene was cut with flashes of what was happening as she was singing to her child and it was a series of mob hits, done in slow motion and silent. Although I didn't get hooked on soaps I did think that was a very well done scene. Can't remember what show it was, though. Probably General Hospital, I know she watched that one.

 

[CharleyH]

Don't depend on 'em, I'd say.

Referencing to specific music pieces in stories is like referencing to specific people - it only makes sense if the reader knows exactly what you're talking about.

Are you sure? I think that Bret Easton Ellis makes beautiful references to music in his novel, 'American Psycho'. One need not know the music to understand the music and how it affects the main character.

 

[CharleyH]

Probably the most effective use of use I've seen is when it used to juxtapose what is on screen. I walked in on something my mom was watching once and it got my attention. I think it was a soap opera, actually. There was a woman singing a soft lullaby to her newborn, just a solo voice, no other sound at all. The scene was cut with flashes of what was happening as she was singing to her child and it was a series of mob hits, done in slow motion and silent. Although I didn't get hooked on soaps I did think that was a very well done scene. Can't remember what show it was, though. Probably General Hospital, I know she watched that one.

lol. Great story. Thanks, Boota.

I loved that scene in the Hunger because of the transition. During the whole tease, Deneuve's Marium is playing Lakme on the piano and with starts and stops. We know, as viewers, what is going to happen, but we are never sure. When the opera kicks in and replaces the piano ... we know there will be a climax. Opera was a great choice in this scene and Lakme was equally a beautiful choice.

Choice of music, particularly in movies, can sink or swim a film. Thoughts?

 

[The_Fool]

I may have, once or twice, used music as a metaphor. Maybe.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I have one story that deals with a musician, and i have to use musical references in that-- but I've written his lyrics for him, not used existing ones. And if I get into the lyrics themselves, it's because he's singing them;

...The song crashed to its end. The roaring audience hushed expectantly.

“Omigod,” Alegra said. “‘Tease Me’… I’m not ready for this.”

Onstage the lights went blue and dim, the band’s tempo slowed, Karl’s drums thudding. Marco got up from his keyboard, and donned a guitar, strumming softly with Toffer on bass and Gina’s keyboard, creating a whining, pulsing rhythm. The first yearning, sliding note came from two guitars playing as one, Tony and Tracy side by side. “Who are you, baby?” Tracy said softly into the microphone. “What are you going to do to me? Tell me your name tonight.” and the song began.

With a snap of your fingers

You bring me to my knees

Stella winced. The song was the most blatant statement Tracy had written to date, so erotically charged for her that she could never bring herself to listen to it in anyone’s company. Well, she had no choice, now.

Your eyes freeze me

A cold cold sweat

Ooh…

She wandered over to the lighting tower, to get alone, but Alegra followed her.

I fear you when you Tease Me…

Alegra cuddled into her side. She wrapped her arms around the girl and listened to Tracy feel his way through his song of obsessive lust. As the tempo began its speedup Alegra clung to her, her heart pounding. When Stella looked over at her, their eyes met.

“That’s your man,” Alegra said; “Just like you always said he would be, so how about that, Miss Thing?”

“Yeah. How about that.” – Oh, Mother,– she thought. –If he’s really mine, I can’t think of a sacrifice big enough for you. You’ve changed my life. Even if this ends tonight.–

Tracy’s voice climbed into the falsetto for a verse, then wound masterfully back down the scale. Marco was back at his keyboards near the girls, his eyes half-closed and trancey.

Do you have to be so cruel

You know it’s only you

So hard, so hard

Just tell me what to do

Three booming chords poured out. Stella shuddered. Tracy’s screams were orchestrated just a fraction behind the beat;

I’m begging you begging you begging you

Look baby look I’m on the floor

I can’t take no more

I surrender I’m yours

Tease Me…

Throwing down the guitar, he leapt straight up, his body twisting in mid-air before he whirled across the stage in a dance of frustrated need.

“Jesus on a stick,” a masculine voice grated, nearby; “He looks like a titty dancer." Muffled laughter greeted this. Stella turned, startled, to see a group of roadies standing mesmerized. “Hey, Rourke, get your pecker hard?” The man addressed ignored the jibe, leaning against the tower support watching the show. “Rourke always got a hard one…” The others guffawed.

Relieved the spell was broken, Stella essayed a grin; “Are your panties wet?”

“Omigod… That’s, like, the nastiest thing I’ve ever seen.”

Rourke stepped to the edge of the stage to aim a fog machine.

At another point, he's falling apart, and his own song starts playing on the radio-- It's like fate is taunting him.

 

[Liar]

Are you sure? I think that Bret Easton Ellis makes beautiful references to music in his novel, 'American Psycho'. One need not know the music to understand the music and how it affects the main character.

Well how are the references made in that book? I haven't read it and I don't have a copy here.

(Which is kind of an illustration of what I was talking about. You mention the writing technique of 'American Psycho'. Only if I have read it, you will have succeeded in communicating with me, the reader of your post. If you on the other hand describe it to me, we're gonna get somewhere.)

If I say an artist and a song title and leave it at that, and the reader don't hear the song in his head, how does that say anything about the music?

 

[rgraham666]

When someone mentions music in movies I always think of Ennio Morricone first.

And Bach's Tocatta and Fugue in D minor.

 

[Liar]

My first thought was Scott Bradley.

 

[Stella_Omega]

All the string duets in Master And Commander.