Where are all the women?

[Netzach]

I don't understand anyone, male, female, or other. People are weird.

I just remember this profound sense that something about me is in disconnect from my interactions with older women in my family when I was a teen. It was like another planet.

I snuck off to play pool with the 20-40 unmarried men during thanksgivings. It was another culture but more anthropology and less space travel.

 

[JMohegan]

Not at all. My mother worked full time, but in a position with flexible hours and light hours in comparison to mine (though my position is flexible and light in comparison to most in my line of work). My dad's job is also flexible. That makes a huge difference.

Oh, she'd be 62.

It would be great if more people in the US workforce had the flexible hours option.

Remember when Hilary Clinton (now 61) said, "Well, I could have stayed home and baked cookies," and rolled her eyes in disdain?

What message did your mother give you about the option of being a stay-at-home mom?

 

[Netzach]

It would be great if more people in the US workforce had the flexible hours option.

Remember when Hilary Clinton (now 61) said, "Well, I could have stayed home and baked cookies," and rolled her eyes in disdain?

What message did your mother give you about the option of being a stay-at-home mom?

I think the pendulum has swung in the other direction too. You're still a soul-less freak if you choose your career INSTEAD of children, because, don't you know, you can do everything. You must.

Please, there may be validation for women who stay in the workforce, but there's no validation for a woman who isn't going to engage her womb.

 

[JMohegan]

I think the pendulum has swung in the other direction too. You're still a soul-less freak if you choose your career INSTEAD of children, because, don't you know, you can do everything. You must.

Please, there may be validation for women who stay in the workforce, but there's no validation for a woman who isn't going to engage her womb.

It's insanity, it really is.

Where does this come from? Who's driving the messaging here?

Condi Rice and Sotomayor are childless, as far as I know. There must be other role models out there.

 

[CutieMouse]

I think the pendulum has swung in the other direction too. You're still a soul-less freak if you choose your career INSTEAD of children, because, don't you know, you can do everything. You must.

As I've said before... you ain't seen nothin' until you've chosen to give dad primary custody/take every other weekend visitation for yourself in the divorce.

Please, there may be validation for women who stay in the workforce, but there's no validation for a woman who isn't going to engage her womb.

[hijack]

Let me take a moment to assure you that as dearly as I love the short humans, the whole pregnancy/birth/child rearing thing is vastly overrated.

Especially the pregnancy/birthing part.

[/hijack]

Carry on!

 

[Netzach]

As I've said before... you ain't seen nothin' until you've chosen to give dad primary custody/take every other weekend visitation for yourself in the divorce.





[hijack]

Let me take a moment to assure you that as dearly as I love the short humans, the whole pregnancy/birth/child rearing thing is vastly overrated.

Especially the pregnancy/birthing part.

[/hijack]

Carry on!

Oh you so win. I can't even imagine. Wait, no I can. I totally can.

Christ, where else is this kind of honesty?

All I see is the deification of everything having to do with pushing out a pup. Down to the dirty cloth diaper. Look, I know it's hard work and I know it's important, but dudes, I don't need to be lectured at for being a bad person if I think you are weird for saving your placenta and umbilical cord stubs in the freezer.

However *breathes out* separating insane upper class maternal narcissism which is not at all about children from actual parenting, is key perhaps.

 

[CutieMouse]

Christ, where else is this kind of honesty?

All I see is the deification of everything having to do with pushing out a pup. Down to the dirty cloth diaper. Look, I know it's hard work and I know it's important, but dudes, I don't need to be lectured at for being a bad person if I think you are weird for saving your placenta and umbilical cord stubs in the freezer.

Eh... I've mellowed over the years.

Someone close to me ended a pregnancy a little over a decade ago, and I had a hard time understanding it. Late last year she had a medical issue that will mean blood thinners for life, which means pregnancy would be a big bad nono.

I pointed out the only difference between her as a someday mom and me as a current mom will be her family law attorney and my masochism. (Thankfully she took the masochism comment as a joke, because I was having one of those "speak before we think" moments. Oops.)

And yeah I was one of those hippie mama, home birthing, yadayadayada chicks, but no - not nearly as mystical as people pretend it is. Beautiful, but not mystical.

 

[Netzach]

Eh... I've mellowed over the years.

Someone close to me ended a pregnancy a little over a decade ago, and I had a hard time understanding it. Late last year she had a medical issue that will mean blood thinners for life, which means pregnancy would be a big bad nono.

I pointed out the only difference between her as a someday mom and me as a current mom will be her family law attorney and my masochism. (Thankfully she took the masochism comment as a joke, because I was having one of those "speak before we think" moments. Oops.)

And yeah I was one of those hippie mama, home birthing, yadayadayada chicks, but no - not nearly as mystical as people pretend it is. Beautiful, but not mystical.

Eh for some people it is, I'm sure.

For some people I consider more grounded, but opinions are like assholes, it's not.

The issue I have is in how much women still feel the need to control one another through the guise of what's best for the children.

Who are usually the last people anyone's actually thinking of when they're off in mommy blogger land. The fact is, from the view of an external, but very involved person because that demographic is so much my demographic, it pains me to see that the children themselves are so absent from the actual meat of the discussions.

I'm not sure I know what the dialogue would even look like if it were healthy and child-centered. It's more about control, ostracizing, and the same high school girl social dynamics in which we eat one another in death matches.

 

[graceanne]

Let me take a moment to assure you that as dearly as I love the short humans, the whole pregnancy/birth/child rearing thing is vastly overrated.

Especially the pregnancy/birthing part.

I agree there. I love my kids. I hated being pregnant and having them. And I get some odd looks when I say this. Supposedly, you forget over the years or something. My ass. I remember every miserable moment.

And yeah I was one of those hippie mama, home birthing, yadayadayada chicks, but no - not nearly as mystical as people pretend it is. Beautiful, but not mystical.

That is something I've never understood. I have three. I've seen others born. Etc. I think it's flat out gross. Seriously, couldn't God have found a more dignified way to have babies?

 

[Bi_Kitty]

I would say I'm far from "lady." That could have something to do with the fact that I was raised by my father until I was 11 or 12. I'm the only female among my 7 first cousins so if I wanted to do anything it was one of the boys' games. So, in high school I played sports because that was all I had known...and it pissed me off highly when the football team wouldn't let a group of us girls try out. lol

I can't cook, just ask Bunny, lol.
I hate wearing dresses.
I hate kids.
I don't ever want to get married.
I can clean, that's about it.

 

[YourCaptor]

I don’t see women distancing themselves from the American idea of feminine. However I don’t like that ideal in my partner ether.

My idea of a good women, they are around, scattered all over I assume.

Maybe I should start carrying and dictating, increase my chances.

I was talking to a buddies father and he asks me, “so when are you gonna learn how to cook? You know these women these days they just don’t know how to cook anymore. You don’t want to be eating the same crap everyday, so its very important you learn.”

 

[satindesire]

I hate cooking, honestly. I'm okay at it and I'll do it because I carry the domestic side of mine and Mister's adult responsibilities, but I really don't like it very much at all. I get stressed out because I'm not great at cooking and I mess up a lot, so I'm always freaking out about ruining the food...It puts me in a sad mood. That and the fact that Mister was a professional chef for years, and that's a LOT of (self induced) pressure, you know what I mean?

I actually do like keeping the house clean because I have a pretty house now and I want to take good care of it. I take care of the kitty cats by myself and I also do a majority of the outside work too, like raking the leaves, watering the plants, and washing the car. I have someone else mow, though, I won't be mowing 7 months pregnant, in this heat. No way.

I do the menu planning, grocery shopping and bill paying. I also make and keep appointments and write out thank you notes and plan for all the parties and holidays.

Although he occasionally will open a jar for me or take out the trash, most of the in-and-around the house stuff is my job.

I am very typically feminine, I love to wear feminine clothes like heels and skirts, my favorite color is pink, I keep myself very well groomed with my hair and nails and toes always done. I don't walk out of my house without makeup unless I'm sick or just taking out the trash. I also use self-tanner (redheads can't really tan in the sun or in tanning beds, and why would I court skin cancer anyway?) and I wear perfume, makeup and jewelry every day.

The picture I put up in my pregnancy thread is what I look like on a typical day. Although I have to say I usually don't wear lipstick, I prefer either chapstick or lipgloss instead. That's about it.

I do run from bugs, especially spiders and the kinds I'm allergic to like bees and wasps. Mister does the squashing. He's not afraid of any bugs at all, so he kills them without even blinking.

Although I can say that I absolutely love bugs like butterflies, ladybugs, and lightning bugs...Just nothing ugly or creepy.

I want to be a stay at home mom (and trophy wife) but I absolutely respect women who work outside the home (as being a domestic partner and not having an outside-the-home job is a recent thing for me) because I've worked outside the home most of my adult life. I love children and want to have children of my own (obviously! ^_^) but I also don't mind it when a girl says she doesn't want kids. Having choices like this is what makes America so freaking cool in my opinion.

I do have a problem with swearing, I don't even realize I'm doing it half the time. Mister was a sailor...literally...so he's influenced my language a lot. I need to quit, well...both of us need to quit before Brooklyn is born or else we'll have a baby that cusses...SO NOT GOOD!

When I'm excited I jump up and down and squeal. Yes, you know the kind of girl that does that. STOP ROLLING YOUR EYES.

I know you're rolling your eyes.

Quit it.

 

[Keroin]

I think the pendulum has swung in the other direction too. You're still a soul-less freak if you choose your career INSTEAD of children, because, don't you know, you can do everything. You must.

Please, there may be validation for women who stay in the workforce, but there's no validation for a woman who isn't going to engage her womb.

True.

It's funny, I never put much thought into my decision to be child free but then a friend of mine wrote a book about women who are childless by choice. ("Pride and Joy - The Lives and Passions of Women Without Children"). After I read the book, I felt a wave of what can only be described as relief wash over me, kind of "OK, good, there's nothing wrong with me, other women feel this way too." In retrospect, I suppose that was the validation I didn't even know I was looking for.

It felt great.

 

[nh23]

I'm aware of this taking place, but I just don't want it to be overstated. My mother was a feminist, a working mother and she never denigrated motherhood, cooking or keeping a home. I don't think she and many other women in her generation really considered the practicalities of women working in demanding professions such as law or medicine and also keeping a home. Something's gotta give.

I think it's our sanity. I work full time as a pediatric nurse. I also do the majority of the cooking and cleaning. I take care of the finances. I do homework with the kids, and I keep track of all the meetings and etc..we have to have for my daughter who is in special needs classes.

I take care of the Doctor's appointments. Master gets the kids on the bus, but I get them up when I get up for work and get them dressed, teeth brushed, hair combed. I do all the grocery shopping. I work swing shift. So through the week I work 7-3 and have the evenings to get everything done by 9pm or so. On the weekends I work midnights, so Master does watch over the kids when I get home so I can sleep.

It's a life that keeps you extremely busy, as I'm sure you know also itw. But it's well worth it, and it can be done.

 

[gloriann]

It amazes me that gender roles still pervade in the 21st century.

In my family, my role models were as such: I'm a good Sicilian cook because my father is a good Sicilian cook. I am a good housecleaner because my father is a good housecleaner.

My father said, "There's no such thing as women's work or man's work. Work is work."

I am terrified of spiders. I never wanted to have children. I cry at the drop of a hat. I'd rather watch a baseball game than a soap opera. I like lacy underwear and perfume and jewelry. I do not own a dress.

I'm not a lady; I'm a woman.

 

[naxalite0906]

...snip

But there is a tender, nurturing, graciousness - a dignified softness, warm loveliness that some women possess, and no man ever will. A world without these women is not a place in which I would ever want to live.

I can agree to this.

I also agree with what gloriann said here.

There's no such thing as women's work or man's work. Work is work

As much as the traditional view of gender roles is changing, I still believe people should be open minded towards the choices and abilities of both sexes. Some of this is influenced by where the person is brought up and how traditional that region's views may be. Other bits are influenced by the family unit they were brought up in. With seperation, divorce and same sex couples becoming more common, the role models for the young are changing in many ways.

Perhaps we should forget about being traditional and sticking to what is right. I would argue now that what is more important is becoming a decent and capable human being.

 

[intothewoods]

I think it's our sanity. I work full time as a pediatric nurse. I also do the majority of the cooking and cleaning. I take care of the finances. I do homework with the kids, and I keep track of all the meetings and etc..we have to have for my daughter who is in special needs classes.

I take care of the Doctor's appointments. Master gets the kids on the bus, but I get them up when I get up for work and get them dressed, teeth brushed, hair combed. I do all the grocery shopping. I work swing shift. So through the week I work 7-3 and have the evenings to get everything done by 9pm or so. On the weekends I work midnights, so Master does watch over the kids when I get home so I can sleep.

It's a life that keeps you extremely busy, as I'm sure you know also itw. But it's well worth it, and it can be done.

Well, it has to be done. I sometimes wonder what is worth it. There are definitely trade-offs.

What kind of hours does your Master work?

It would be great if more people in the US workforce had the flexible hours option.

Remember when Hilary Clinton (now 61) said, "Well, I could have stayed home and baked cookies," and rolled her eyes in disdain?

What message did your mother give you about the option of being a stay-at-home mom?

It's hard to remember. She wanted to be a stay at home mom at first, so it wasn't negative. I liked that she worked though. Growing up, I thought I would stay at home for a couple of years and then work, which is not always realistic.

At the time I became aware of HRC (when Bill ran for President), I thought she was great. I liked that she was a successful lawyer and outspoken. I was only 17 or 18.

Oh you so win. I can't even imagine. Wait, no I can. I totally can.

Christ, where else is this kind of honesty?

All I see is the deification of everything having to do with pushing out a pup. Down to the dirty cloth diaper. Look, I know it's hard work and I know it's important, but dudes, I don't need to be lectured at for being a bad person if I think you are weird for saving your placenta and umbilical cord stubs in the freezer.

However *breathes out* separating insane upper class maternal narcissism which is not at all about children from actual parenting, is key perhaps.

Maternal narcissism is not limited to the upper class. It's out of control.

 

[graceanne]

When I'm excited I jump up and down and squeal. Yes, you know the kind of girl that does that. STOP ROLLING YOUR EYES.

I know you're rolling your eyes.

Quit it.

​

 

[Netzach]

I love to cook, but for all the wrong reasons. I like the positive strokes when I do it well, which I do, and I don't care to do the cleanup.

 

[Homburg]

I love to cook, but for all the wrong reasons. I like the positive strokes when I do it well, which I do, and I don't care to do the cleanup.

Yes, this. Especially the part about clean-up.

Fortunately (to quote Eldest Daughter at her 4th birthday party) I have people for that.

 

[Shankara20]

....I've seen others born. Etc. I think it's flat out gross. Seriously, couldn't God have found a more dignified way to have babies?

birth and death are messy events...

Anal retentive God ain't

 

[Shankara20]

real woman =

look and dress like Barbie
have money and sing like Dolly Parton
keep house like Martha Stewart
raise kids like June Cleaver
not be smarter then me​

I'll post more

should I survive this post....

oh-oh I've got another one


be as sexually submissive as O

 

[graceanne]

birth and death are messy events...

Anal retentive God ain't

Can't disagree with you on that one.

 

[JMohegan]

oh-oh I've got another one


be as sexually submissive as O

Christ, that book was dull and poorly written.

I disagree with the idea that O's character has ever served as a model for mainstream women. A subset of the kinky world, perhaps. But sexual availability to all and sundry does not fit any ideal of non-kinky American womanhood of which I am aware.

 

[Shankara20]

Christ, that book was dull and poorly written.

I disagree with the idea that O's character has ever served as a model for mainstream women. A subset of the kinky world, perhaps. But sexual availability to all and sundry does not fit any ideal of non-kinky American womanhood of which I am aware.

I agree - but I wonder how many men want that sort of sexual availability from the women they have joined with in relationship?


Instead of "be as sexually submissive as O" I might have stated:
I want a women that understands quid pro quo - I'll do all the manly stuff, you give me sex...