Where are all the men?

[midwestyankee]

*bows*



HA.

I went to Summer Camp in Maine for 2 months a year for 8 years of my childhood. Once a summer the camp put on a clam bake for all the campers, councilors, and staff. There weren't actually any clams, but there was tons of cornbread, salad, potatoes, and other yummy such food. You got to choose between having a WHOLE LOBSTER to yourself or a little piece of steak. Now, keep in mind, the vast majority of the girls are under 12 years old, and the lobsters were maybe twice the size of their heads. And they got a whole one, to themselves. At that time, lobsters were pretty frightening. They looked icky and had antennas and you had to wrestle with them to get anything edible.

One of my favorite summer jobs was working in the kitchen at a girls' camp in central Maine. Apart from the camp owner/director, there were exactly four men in the camp, all of us between 18 and 25. The girls ranged from about 10 to 16 but the bulk of the camp staff were female college students. It was a fine, fine summer.

 

[00Syd]

One of my favorite summer jobs was working in the kitchen at a girls' camp in central Maine. Apart from the camp owner/director, there were exactly four men in the camp, all of us between 18 and 25. The girls ranged from about 10 to 16 but the bulk of the camp staff were female college students. It was a fine, fine summer.

Ha, yeah. You should have seen how the pre-teens at my camp swooned over Ryan the maintenance guy. Dude wasn't even that good looking. But he was the only young-ish dude at the camp.

Towards my later years at said camp, they seemed to become a little more lax with the amount of young male staff there was, and in my last year there was an (actually) good looking guy working in the kitchen names Chip, an honest to goodness hot British sailing instructor, various decent looking maintenance men, as well as TWO hot art instructors. My mind was blown. I do believe I was 15 that summer and my daydreams were not entirely kosher, to say the least.

I actually ended up running into a few councilors from camp that summer after it had ended who were staying at a cheap-o motel in my neighborhood and the hot British sailing instructor was shacking up with one of the female councilors. I don't have to tell you that it was quite the scandal when I told all my buddies the news.

 

[Keroin]

Some females exhibit those traits; most don't. Whether more females would exhibit those traits, had they not been socialized out of girls since early childhood, I don't know.

I think socialization plays a part, for women, but not as big as we'd like to believe. I was raised with Barbies and dresses and all your typical girlie stuff but it was never inside of me; the moment I was free to choose, I shrugged it all off. If those traits were innate to most women, I think we'd see more women in typically male dominated fields and, while we're seeing more than we used to, the numbers are from from equal.

Women constitute a small percentage of the stunt business - a very high testosterone field, to say the least. The women I worked with, though all unique, shared common traits, namely: driven, competitive, assertive, addicted to adrenalin, physically and mentally tough, confident.

Compared to the males in the business, I think the women were a bit more grounded. Less likely to brag and trash talk and more concerned with getting down to business. But then, we had a lot more to prove.

Some of the high T men I worked with I would call "real men", some I wouldn't.

It's part underwhelmedness at the meat it's part guilt complex. They have eyes on stalks and they're older than my mom. Sea kittens!

Sea kittens = yummy.

BTW, I don't cook lobster by dropping it into boiling water. I brain them first with a good, solid knife. It's a quick death.

To have free, self-caught lobster so often that you get sick of it? Heaven.

And I don't know about crab. Maybe I've just had so much fake crab in my life that I'm sick of the very idea of it. I'll have to give crab another go.

And as for oysters, the colder and snottier the better, as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, too much lobster is not a bad way to live.

Real crab is divine! Fake crab is...BLECH! I don't eat any crabs here because all these species are endangered. But on the west coast of Vancouver Island? Oh baby! And Florida has Stone Crab legs, which are killer. A much more tender and sweet meat than lobster.

 

[00Syd]

Real crab is divine! Fake crab is...BLECH! I don't eat any crabs here because all these species are endangered. But on the west coast of Vancouver Island? Oh baby! And Florida has Stone Crab legs, which are killer. A much more tender and sweet meat than lobster.

But do they taste like butter?

 

[Keroin]

But do they taste like butter?

Like butter churned in paradise by a flock of smiling virgins. Yep.

 

[Shankara20]

Like butter churned in paradise by a flock of smiling virgins. Yep.

as I remember smiling virgins taste just this side of heavenly

 

[BiBunny]

I've never been too big on lobster. After all the rave reviews I heard about it, I expected to absolutely love it. It was very bland to me, and I felt sort of let down. Oysters don't do it for me, either.

But crab? Mmm. Ditto clam, shrimp, and scallops (real ones, not circular chunks of stingray wing). I love them all.

 

[Keroin]

I've never been too big on lobster. After all the rave reviews I heard about it, I expected to absolutely love it. It was very bland to me, and I felt sort of let down. Oysters don't do it for me, either.

But crab? Mmm. Ditto clam, shrimp, and scallops (real ones, not circular chunks of stingray wing). I love them all.

*Cries*

Sorry, you just made me flash on memories of finding stacks of dead ray carcasses tossed up onto the beach, with their wings cut out. Really, I just...sigh.

 

[BiBunny]

*Cries*

Sorry, you just made me flash on memories of finding stacks of dead ray carcasses tossed up onto the beach, with their wings cut out. Really, I just...sigh.

I'm sorry, Keroin.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Sports = the healthiest, most efficient means of channeling energy & aggressiveness ever devised. Unfortunately, money, inappropriate coaching, and/or parents who want to vicariously relive their glory days, or have their children make up for their non-glorious days, or who see one tiny skill in an 8-year-old and instantly see MLB/NFL/NBA paychecks in the future pervert the outlet in many cases.

Added in one of the biggest perversions of sport as a healthy outlet - at least in the U.S. - of our times. Hope you don't mind. If you don't believe it, check out news stories of the last 5 years or so about parents attacking coaches (their own team and opponents), each other, and even the kids.

Other than that, I fervently agree with you.

 

[ChainedEros]

I've never been too big on lobster. After all the rave reviews I heard about it, I expected to absolutely love it. It was very bland to me, and I felt sort of let down. Oysters don't do it for me, either.

But crab? Mmm. Ditto clam, shrimp, and scallops (real ones, not circular chunks of stingray wing). I love them all.

I had the same experience. I expected lobster to be the best thing this side of heaven. I was so disappointed.

I love seafood though. Oysters, shrimp, clams, scallops, fish, crab and even lobster. I'm just not as enamored with lobster as I expected to be.

 

[Keroin]

I'm sorry, Keroin.

No worries, no harm done. Just had one of those moments.

Now I have a cat on my lap, purring, and an opening line for my new story, so life is good again.

 

[Keroin]

Added in one of the biggest perversions of sport as a healthy outlet - at least in the U.S. - of our times. Hope you don't mind. If you don't believe it, check out news stories of the last 5 years or so about parents attacking coaches (their own team and opponents), each other, and even the kids.

Don't you just want to slap those people?

I don't watch sports on TV - too much unsportsmanlike behaviour for me to handle.

 

[Shankara20]

Rather than denying or attempting to suppress this part of a healthy male, I would respectfully suggest that one distinguishing trait of a "genuine man" is that he has learned how to channel his forcefulness in a mature and ethical fashion.

Is then a passive male that does not express some forcefulness a "man"?

If I understand the goal of Shank's work correctly, he is trying to fight abuse, reduce male non-consensual violence against women, that type of thing.

I am - and I feel that redefining what being a man is all about is a large part in reducing non-consensual violence,

 

[satindesire]

Now I have a cat on my lap, purring *snip*

PICTUREZ!

 

[DiscusDave]

I am - and I feel that redefining what being a man is all about is a large part in reducing non-consensual violence,

HERE HERE!!!! The way I see it.... society has become so wrapped up with defining the "feminine/non-masculine" things that tear down a man's masculinity, that they forgot to say what was being torn down in the first place.

 

[midwestyankee]

HERE HERE!!!! The way I see it.... society has become so wrapped up with defining the "feminine/non-masculine" things that tear down a man's masculinity, that they forgot to say what was being torn down in the first place.

Could you please provide some concrete examples of how "society has become so wrapped up with defining the "feminine/non-masculine" things that tear down a man's masculinity" so we can discuss them in clear terms?

Several people have made similar broad claims here and elsewhere in this forum recently, and I wish someone would man up and provide valid examples.

 

[JMohegan]

I like the idea of defining a genuine man as a mature and ethical adult with cock and balls. Respectfully, Shank, I'm not so sure about the rest of this.

There *is* such a thing as boy energy, and there is such a thing as male aggressiveness. Levels vary, of course, but most healthy males exhibit this energy/aggressiveness to at least a certain degree.

Some females exhibit those traits; most don't. Whether more females would exhibit those traits, had they not been socialized out of girls since early childhood, I don't know.

There are ways to channel male energy and aggressiveness that are responsible, and ways that are not. Rather than denying or attempting to suppress this part of a healthy male, I would respectfully suggest that one distinguishing trait of a "genuine man" is that he has learned how to channel his forcefulness in a mature and ethical fashion.

Is then a passive male that does not express some forcefulness a "man"?

See the part of my original post that I've now put in bold. To address your question, I'll revise my last sentence.

Rather than denying or attempting to suppress this part of a healthy male, I would respectfully suggest that one distinguishing trait of a "genuine man" is that he has learned how to channel *whatever forcefulness is part of his nature* in a mature and ethical fashion.

 

[JMohegan]

Added in one of the biggest perversions of sport as a healthy outlet - at least in the U.S. - of our times. Hope you don't mind. If you don't believe it, check out news stories of the last 5 years or so about parents attacking coaches (their own team and opponents), each other, and even the kids.

Other than that, I fervently agree with you.

I don't mind the addition one bit. In fact, I agree.

Part of the problem is that sports success wins all kinds of advantages in our society, including preference in college admissions and big $ scholarships. The influence is inevitably corrupting.

 

[Shankara20]

See the part of my original post that I've now put in bold. To address your question, I'll revise my last sentence.

Rather than denying or attempting to suppress this part of a healthy male, I would respectfully suggest that one distinguishing trait of a "genuine man" is that he has learned how to channel *whatever forcefulness is part of his nature* in a mature and ethical fashion.

thanks, this helps me understand.

I'm a bit fried tonight so clear thought is a struggle. I expect I'll continue later, I find this thread engaging.

 

[Keroin]

thanks, this helps me understand.

I'm a bit fried tonight so clear thought is a struggle. I expect I'll continue later, I find this thread engaging.

It's all the talk of loincloths, isn't it?

 

[graceanne]

They ARE bugs. Giant water bugs. And people eat them. Yet they say "Ew" when they see someone eat a scorpion on TV.

I'm allergic, so I can't eat them. But honestly, even if I wasn't allergic, I wouldn't want to eat them. I don't care if Red Lobster has a fancy-schmancy "Wood Fire Grill" and all that jazz.

And you're quite welcome. I provide a good laugh service bi-weekly, free of charge!

You are the only person I've ever met who feels the way I do about what I call 'Sea Bugs'. And I won't watch people eat scorpions on tv, either.

It's been suggested, by my doctor, recently that I might be allergic to shell fish. I'm allergic to glucosomine (I swell up), and it's made from the shells of shell fish. I'm not, however, allergic to vegetarian glucosomine. So the doctor was all 'are you allergic to shell fish?' K started laughing and I said "I wouldn't know since I don't eat bugs."

But crab...oh my...how can one refuse crab?

Quite easily. With an averted face and closed eyes. Ew.

Like butter churned in paradise by a flock of smiling virgins. Yep.

Ok, gotta ask. What's so special about butter that's churned by a flock of smiling virgins? If they frowning is it not as good? What if it was churned by one smiling virgin, instead of a flock? Or what if she's had oral sex, but is still technically a virgin? How 'bout then?

 

[LilyBart]

Fair enough. I was just hoping that I hadn't done anything stupid like drubnk posting with a Hello Kitty av or something.

I remember the Hello Kitty Av!

Although I prefer the loincloth-that-I thought-were-panties-AV. In case anyone was interested.

And I have just been skating through this thread and just want to say that:

I miss lobster from the Atlantic.
I miss crabs from the East. Specifically, from the Chesapeake Bay. (Really, I miss crabbing. I prefer for someone else to extricate the crabmeat on my behalf, however. And I need drawn butter!)
I pretty much love all shellfish, except for scallops, who apparently don't love me...
But there are some Pacific fish that rock too. I'm thinking halibut and wild salmon.

I'm skipping through posts, so apologies for not being relevant. I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to talk about my two favorite things: Shellfish, and MWY in panties (Oops, I mean loincloth).

~LB

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Could you please provide some concrete examples of how "society has become so wrapped up with defining the "feminine/non-masculine" things that tear down a man's masculinity" so we can discuss them in clear terms? ... I wish someone would man up and provide valid examples.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/Mens_Vogue.jpg

Click me.

http://mydisguises.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/batmanrobin_pics012.jpg

Good grief Charlie Brown.

 

[Keroin]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/Mens_Vogue.jpg

Click me.

http://mydisguises.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/batmanrobin_pics012.jpg

Good grief Charlie Brown.

Hard for me to comment on this one way or the other. I think most "high fashion" looks ridiculous. This may jump out more because it's so feminine but honestly most of what I see coming down a runway, (in magazines), is just over the top.

I don't feel well. Night all. I'll leave a tray of cupcakes on the shelf for the night owls. (And cookies for Gracie, naturally).