Where are all the men?

[Keroin]

Hm, Dalai Lama's kind of scary when he's that big!

Here's one that didn't come through...

http://www.wonderlandstream.com/photos/david%20suzuki.jpg

Hope this one works, 'cause he's one of my favorite real men.

Added: Oh, the original did go through! Oh well, can't have too many pictures of David Suzuki.

 

[Tabea]

Americans are the most manly men I've come across. I can give you an example with European men, Germans specifically. The cultural norm tends to be sticking very close to home with the female in their lives (first moms, until they get married, then their wives) taking complete care of them. Laundry, cooking, cleaning, fetching things for them... really, most of the harder, unpleasant tasks in life. Those are all taken care of by the women. And for the most part, the men will stay with the woman who takes care of him until there's another one there who will do the same.

I would say that’s not true in my generation. Most men who go to university do live on their own.

Not really. From what I've seen and understand, it's really just been since WWII (okay, so that's before most of our time, but it's not ancient history).

Before the second world war the German men were usually officially the head of the household. In reality though, women were often running the house and making all the decisions. During and after the war women had to work, that changed the roles of women somewhat.

Men learned to do housework.
But I don’t think this made men “weaker”. Being able to do household chores doesn’t take away from masculinity in my opinion.

The traditional gender rules are changing here. It’s become more acceptable for men to stay home and look after the children. But it’s still the majority of women who do that.

I think that how "manly" a man acts often depends on what he does. Police officers for example act completely differently than law students.

 

[midwestyankee]

Good morning everyone! Here’s a little breakfast to chew on…

MWY, I didn’t say the majority of men are unmanly, not even close. In all seriousness, I am seeing a rise in unmanliness, mostly among young men. The roach example was only a quasi-serious metaphor.

So what does it mean to be a “man”? To me, it’s not about killing bugs and doing your own home repairs, it’s about strength of character, which applies equally to women. Technically, the question could be, “Where are all the women and men?”

Let me give you some examples of men I consider “real men” and I’ll talk more about why after I eat my real breakfast.


Man...

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/arts/photos/2006/05/19/suzuki-nude_cp_10037600.jpg

Man...

http://www.dalailama.com/images/pgallery/printable1.jpg

Man...

http://localcrank.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/mlk.jpg

K,

I wasn't accusing you, in particular, of claiming that men in general are less manly these days. But several others in this thread have made that claim. All I'm asking for is some valid evidence to back up the claims.

So far I haven't seen anything close to reliable to back up the claims that we're now raising a generation of wussy men.

 

[wicked woman]

Helloo! I said I was playing devils advocate! This is a fluff thread and I can be a snarky and silly as I want in fluff threads.

of course you can...just as I can be serious.

 

[graceanne]

Yes, just be careful of the rocks.

p.s. The coconut cake was really yummy! (And she gave me some breadfruit lasagna, too).

Did you bring any back to share?

of course you can...just as I can be serious.

Just don't take me too seriously.

 

[Keroin]

K,

I wasn't accusing you, in particular, of claiming that men in general are less manly these days. But several others in this thread have made that claim. All I'm asking for is some valid evidence to back up the claims.

So far I haven't seen anything close to reliable to back up the claims that we're now raising a generation of wussy men.

Gotcha and no worries! I really don't expect every male to be a loin cloth wearing He-man, and I'm fine with sharing feelings and all that, but I guess I do have some standards. I have several anecdotes, (don't I always?), but I'll try to limit myself.

Two of my closest friends have a son who is in his early twenties and still living at home. Originally, he stayed at home because he was going to school but his efforts in school were half-assed at best. Then he injured himself while drunk one evening, so no school for half a year. Long story short, the kids is sponging off his parents and they let him. He eats their food, watches their TV, uses their utilities and doesn't give them a dime to help out, even though he has good paying job and is fully healed from his injury now.

How is this boy ever going to become a man?

I would have kicked his ass out ages ago. He may not be afraid of roaches but he's no man in my books.

Did you bring any back to share?mad:

You are kidding right?

 

[graceanne]

You are kidding right?

Fine, then I won't share my cookies with you. *pbthh*

 

[satindesire]

My opinion generally tends to be, if my cat isn't scared of it, I shouldn't be scared of it.

But spiders. I am so not cool with spiders.

Princess eats anything that moves and can fit in her mouth, so we tend to be relatively spider-free downstairs. The spiders have gotten wise to it and have all moved upstairs WHERE MY BEDROOM IS.

I'm thinking about keeping a kitty in here for a few weeks to fool the clever little bastards.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

My opinion generally tends to be, if my cat isn't scared of it, I shouldn't be scared of it.

But spiders. I am so not cool with spiders.

Princess eats anything that moves and can fit in her mouth, so we tend to be relatively spider-free downstairs. The spiders have gotten wise to it and have all moved upstairs WHERE MY BEDROOM IS.

I'm thinking about keeping a kitty in here for a few weeks to fool the clever little bastards.

Spiders = fewer mosquitoes and flies. As I remember Lawton, skeeters were a royal pita. I dunno if Muskogee has the same issues, but I don't mind sharing my bedroom with a few spiders (except the jumpy kind) if I'm sharing it with fewer mosquitoes... even if the little bastards have been around for 30 million years or so (according to "How Stuff Works") longer than I have.

 

[graceanne]

My opinion generally tends to be, if my cat isn't scared of it, I shouldn't be scared of it.

But spiders. I am so not cool with spiders.

Princess eats anything that moves and can fit in her mouth, so we tend to be relatively spider-free downstairs. The spiders have gotten wise to it and have all moved upstairs WHERE MY BEDROOM IS.

I'm thinking about keeping a kitty in here for a few weeks to fool the clever little bastards.

LOL!

I think bugs are smarter than people believe. I know that flies leave me alone, but when K walks into the house they dive bomb him. I don't kill them, he goes after them with the vacuum cleaner. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[satindesire]

Spiders = fewer mosquitoes and flies. As I remember Lawton, skeeters were a royal pita. I dunno if Muskogee has the same issues, but I don't mind sharing my bedroom with a few spiders (except the jumpy kind) if I'm sharing it with fewer mosquitoes... even if the little bastards have been around for 30 million years or so (according to "How Stuff Works") longer than I have.

Cats eat mosquitoes and flies. People eat bugs alla time.

I am NOT cool with spiders, I don't care if they eat POLITICIANS.

LOL!

I think bugs are smarter than people believe. I know that flies leave me alone, but when K walks into the house they dive bomb him. I don't kill them, he goes after them with the vacuum cleaner. Coincidence? I think not.

Rofflecopterbbq!

Yes, bugs are way smarter than people give them credit for.

 

[graceanne]

Cats eat mosquitoes and flies. People eat bugs alla time.

I agree, but I think that crabs, lobsters, and shrimp are bugs. *shrugs*

I am NOT cool with spiders, I don't care if they eat POLITICIANS.

There's a great mental picture. lol

 

[Shankara20]

Gotcha and no worries! I really don't expect every male to be a loin cloth wearing He-man, and I'm fine with sharing feelings and all that, but I guess I do have some standards. I have several anecdotes, (don't I always?), but I'll try to limit myself.

Can the loin cloth at least be made of pink taffeta for some men???

 

[Shankara20]

How is this boy ever going to become a man?

I would have kicked his ass out ages ago. He may not be afraid of roaches but he's no man in my books.

Would his actions be OK if "he" were a "her"?

Its not so much as a gender thing as a matter of him being an adult?

 

[Netzach]

Would his actions be OK if "he" were a "her"?

Its not so much as a gender thing as a matter of him being an adult?

See I'm with you on that.

Lame is lame. Like I said, balls at least as big as mine, in SOME life areas.

 

[Shankara20]

See I'm with you on that.

Lame is lame. Like I said, balls at least as big as mine, in SOME life areas.

For the work I do several of us tried to draft a "Real Man" description and just gave up.

Pro football (USofA style) star Don McPherson states: “We don’t raise boys to be men. We raise boys not to be women or gay“

Football coach Joe Ehrmann suggests: athletic ability, sexual conquest and economic success— are constantly held up in our culture as measurements of manhood.

"Those are the three lies that make up what I call ‘false masculinity,'" Ehrmann says. "The problem is that it sets men up for tremendous failures in our lives. Because it gives us this concept that what we need to do as men is compare what we have and compete with others for what they have.

Locally we settled with this: "Genuine masculinity requires each and every male to craft their own definition of being male, free from imposed and negative cultural influences as much as possible, while choosing to reject the use of violence, force, coercion and abuse as part of any “male model”."

But I am starting to warm up to the "balls as big as Netzach's in SOME life areas" perspective a bit...

 

[Netzach]

For the work I do several of us tried to draft a "Real Man" description and just gave up.

Pro football (USofA style) star Don McPherson states: “We don’t raise boys to be men. We raise boys not to be women or gay“

Football coach Joe Ehrmann suggests: athletic ability, sexual conquest and economic success— are constantly held up in our culture as measurements of manhood.

"Those are the three lies that make up what I call ‘false masculinity,'" Ehrmann says. "The problem is that it sets men up for tremendous failures in our lives. Because it gives us this concept that what we need to do as men is compare what we have and compete with others for what they have.

Locally we settled with this: "Genuine masculinity requires each and every male to craft their own definition of being male, free from imposed and negative cultural influences as much as possible, while choosing to reject the use of violence, force, coercion and abuse as part of any “male model”."

But I am starting to warm up to the "balls as big as Netzach's in SOME life areas" perspective a bit...

Really it's a feminist project in a way. That you can be nurturing without being a doormat, soft without being anyone's schmuck. We've already insisted that women can do that. Well, everyone can. They're good ideas.

 

[midwestyankee]

But I am starting to warm up to the "balls as big as Netzach's in SOME life areas" perspective a bit...

I'm in general agreement with this, though I think that one ought to have photographic evidence in order to measure oneself against the standard.

ETA: I sure hope we get a few more posts soon as this page is ridiculously wide due to the Dalai Lama photo above.

 

[Keroin]

Would his actions be OK if "he" were a "her"?

Its not so much as a gender thing as a matter of him being an adult?

Correct, it's not about gender. The same couple I spoke of also have a daughter, who is five years older than the son. She stayed at home while at school but she worked tremendously hard and did well in her classes. When school was done she left, renting and eventually buying her own place. She's an adult, a woman.

Her brother is a big, strong, lacrosse player but she's still got bigger balls than him.

 

[Keroin]

Can the loin cloth at least be made of pink taffeta for some men???

For you, Shank, anything is acceptable.

 

[Keroin]

ETA: I sure hope we get a few more posts soon as this page is ridiculously wide due to the Dalai Lama photo above.

I know, I know! I really should have looked at the size - I was in a hurry. He's freaking me out now and I used to find his little face so charming.

 

[midwestyankee]

I know, I know! I really should have looked at the size - I was in a hurry. He's freaking me out now and I used to find his little face so charming.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility to resize the image and then replace the one that's linked here with the resized version.

C'mon, K, grow some stones and fix your damned pic. It's not a spider.

 

[Keroin]

It's not beyond the realm of possibility to resize the image and then replace the one that's linked here with the resized version.

C'mon, K, grow some stones and fix your damned pic. It's not a spider.

Cut me some slack, I just woke up! It's 7:30am in my little corner of the world and it's a long weekend, (not that it means anything to me).

Happy birthday Queen!!!

Not that the Queen's birthday means anything to me, either, just want to see if Netz will poke fun at me.

Oh and I thought of something to eat up more space...

If

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

Rudyard Kipling

 

[midwestyankee]

In case you haven't noticed, the page breaks at Lit are based on the number of posts (25 is the default per page) and not on the length of the posts.

We're almost there.

 

[Keroin]

In case you haven't noticed, the page breaks at Lit are based on the number of posts (25 is the default per page) and not on the length of the posts.

We're almost there.

No I hadn't noticed. You're being very smart alec-y this am MWY. Loincloth too tight?

I need a morning beverage.

I still like Kipling's poem.