Where are all the men?

[MisterSir]

Translator needed. Is this by any chance "kill the carrier?"

Lemme try that again. The way I remember playing it was that you had one person - the Bulldog - standing between two safe areas and everybody else's job was to get from one area to the other. Anybody who was caught (tackled and held to the ground for a count of 3) joined the Bulldog and so on until everybody had been captured or somebody was dead.

 

[Keroin]

Lemme try that again. The way I remember playing it was that you had one person - the Bulldog - standing between two safe areas and everybody else's job was to get from one area to the other. Anybody who was caught (tackled and held to the ground for a count of 3) joined the Bulldog and so on until everybody had been captured or somebody was dead.

I loved British Bulldog as a kid!

I think the American version is called "Freedom Bulldog" or something.

 

[ZRT]

I'd like to mention that my extremely femme metro who whines at me if there's a chicken bone in his food is the source of mouse removal and bengal tiger defense though.

Some very non-traditionally-butch men are the kind of people you just do not want to see mad. I've tried to maintain that if anyone ever fucks with us both that's why I wear running shoes out to shows and we both run for it in opposing directions. I have a feeling this may not happen if his reptile brain kicks in.

Exactly like his dad. It's the quiet ones.

Manhood rests in carrying out the duties involved, such as mouse removal and bengal tiger defense. It's not presentation, it's production.

You're spot on in your later comment about mommy-clingy shit masquerading as sensitivity.

Anyway, enough seriousness in a Keroin thread. I'll think of something zany now.

Uh.

Uh.

Fuck, somebody help me out here. It was a long Saturday night.

ETA: Hey, where's the 'Throw Rocks at Keroin' thread? I had a nice choice chunk of coliche all ready to go.

 

[rida]

If it comes to walking into dangerous situations willingly ... I'm a whimp. FORGET.IT.

But if I end up having to man up ... I'll man up and face it. After checking if I can ran away first.

As for bugs: I HATE mosquitos. They LOVE me. Is a doomed relationship.
Cockroaches ... as far as they do not start flying, I can deal with them: I want them out of my house ... but I know it is impossible, so I'm happy if they just do not show their presence.
Spider, other not flying bugs ... if I know where you are, we are cool. Stay away. And chances are I'll kill you if you scare me.
Wasps, flying bugs ... I hate that you can fly and I cannot keep track of where you are. I'll try to get you to fly out.

 

[midwestyankee]

This whole notion of the majority of men being all mommy-help-me wusses escapes me. Could someone please provide a concrete example of this kind of behavior in large enough numbers to qualify as a valid description of mass behavior?

 

[Sir_Winston54]

This whole notion of the majority of men being all mommy-help-me wusses escapes me. Could someone please provide a concrete example of this kind of behavior in large enough numbers to qualify as a valid description of mass behavior?

Without going back through the thread, because I'm feeling lazy this morning, I don't think anyone said the majority of men are wussing out - just that there seem to be more of them, or more evident. I could be wrong, though. I was wrong once before: I thought I'd made a mistake.

 

[CurlyKat]

This whole notion of the majority of men being all mommy-help-me wusses escapes me. Could someone please provide a concrete example of this kind of behavior in large enough numbers to qualify as a valid description of mass behavior?

Americans are the most manly men I've come across. I can give you an example with European men, Germans specifically. The cultural norm tends to be sticking very close to home with the female in their lives (first moms, until they get married, then their wives) taking complete care of them. Laundry, cooking, cleaning, fetching things for them... really, most of the harder, unpleasant tasks in life. Those are all taken care of by the women. And for the most part, the men will stay with the woman who takes care of him until there's another one there who will do the same.

There are some exceptions to this, of course. I've met some German men who move away and get more into their work or business, so aren't so reliant upon a woman to take care of them. For the most part, however, I'm not sure the majority of German men could survive without the women. I think a lot of that has to do with having stronger female influences than male influence.

 

[midwestyankee]

Americans are the most manly men I've come across. I can give you an example with European men, Germans specifically. The cultural norm tends to be sticking very close to home with the female in their lives (first moms, until they get married, then their wives) taking complete care of them. Laundry, cooking, cleaning, fetching things for them... really, most of the harder, unpleasant tasks in life. Those are all taken care of by the women. And for the most part, the men will stay with the woman who takes care of him until there's another one there who will do the same.

There are some exceptions to this, of course. I've met some German men who move away and get more into their work or business, so aren't so reliant upon a woman to take care of them. For the most part, however, I'm not sure the majority of German men could survive without the women. I think a lot of that has to do with having stronger female influences than male influence.

What you're describing seems to be a very old pattern. If I'm wrong, please correct me. But what I'm interested in is examples of mass behavior that would prove that men in recent times have become somehow less manly.

 

[CurlyKat]

What you're describing seems to be a very old pattern. If I'm wrong, please correct me. But what I'm interested in is examples of mass behavior that would prove that men in recent times have become somehow less manly.

Not really. From what I've seen and understand, it's really just been since WWII (okay, so that's before most of our time, but it's not ancient history).

I can't think of another example where in recent times a massive amount of men have turned into wusses. Perhaps it is just a socially acceptable thing, so more men are showing that side of themselves as opposed to acting in the typical man role.

 

[Aggressive One]

This thread reminds me of the youtube clip where the weather man sees a roach and shrieks louder than most women would...

 

[midwestyankee]

Not really. From what I've seen and understand, it's really just been since WWII (okay, so that's before most of our time, but it's not ancient history).

I can't think of another example where in recent times a massive amount of men have turned into wusses. Perhaps it is just a socially acceptable thing, so more men are showing that side of themselves as opposed to acting in the typical man role.

So before WWII, German men did their own cooking and laundry? That's not at all what I would have expected.

 

[CurlyKat]

So before WWII, German men did their own cooking and laundry? That's not at all what I would have expected.

Well no, they didn't, but they didn't rely on women to essentially wipe their own rears, either. They were much more self-reliant and what we would consider the defintion of a manly man. They were more the strong defenders then, and now they are very, very far from it. Mama does all defense necessary.

 

[midwestyankee]

Well no, they didn't, but they didn't rely on women to essentially wipe their own rears, either. They were much more self-reliant and what we would consider the defintion of a manly man. They were more the strong defenders then, and now they are very, very far from it. Mama does all defense necessary.

Can you give different examples to show how mama does "all defense necessary?" I'm not sure that doing the housework qualifies.

 

[CurlyKat]

Can you give different examples to show how mama does "all defense necessary?" I'm not sure that doing the housework qualifies.

No, it doesn't, but what I was trying to get to was the reliance on someone else to take total care of them. When there's some controversy (which I've seen a few times, you know, normal public disagreements), the girls will be the ones defending the guys, and the guy will attack the girl. They won't take care of their business man-to-man. Personally, I think it's just low to have a guy picking on a girl because he doesn't like her guy.

 

[graceanne]

So before WWII, German men did their own cooking and laundry? That's not at all what I would have expected.

No, but back then men knew how to roof their own houses, do their own plumbing, landscape their own yards, dry wall over holes made by rotten kids, etc.

My husband can do all those things. So can my step dad and all of my uncles. It's a lost art, being that handy.

 

[midwestyankee]

No, but back then men knew how to roof their own houses, do their own plumbing, landscape their own yards, dry wall over holes made by rotten kids, etc.

My husband can do all those things. So can my step dad and all of my uncles. It's a lost art, being that handy.

I don't think that this is a fair characterization at all. After all, the DIY Network, shows such as This Old House, and the rise of Home Depot all are clear signs of a strong interest in men (and women) doing handy things.

The fact that some people choose to hire professionals to do the tasks that you named does not mean that many others aren't doing them for themselves.

 

[graceanne]

I don't think that this is a fair characterization at all. After all, the DIY Network, shows such as This Old House, and the rise of Home Depot all are clear signs of a strong interest in men (and women) doing handy things.

The fact that some people choose to hire professionals to do the tasks that you named does not mean that many others aren't doing them for themselves.

Take my word for it, a lot of those people doing it themselves then have to hire a professional to fix their work.

And people are going to Home Depot more often to get their kinky stuff! They don't call it Dom Depot for nothing, ya know!

FYI - I'm just playing devils advocate. I don't necessarily think bug killing is a sign of manliness (although K will), or I would be worried about my son who won't even go into a room that has a spider.

 

[Shankara20]

*Shank, who is away this weekend, does not have time to read the full thread, and only doing a quick check in, in his best Terminator voice states*

I'll be back!

 

[CutieMouse]

No, but back then men knew how to roof their own houses, do their own plumbing, landscape their own yards, dry wall over holes made by rotten kids, etc.

My husband can do all those things. So can my step dad and all of my uncles. It's a lost art, being that handy.

I don't think that this is a fair characterization at all. After all, the DIY Network, shows such as This Old House, and the rise of Home Depot all are clear signs of a strong interest in men (and women) doing handy things.

The fact that some people choose to hire professionals to do the tasks that you named does not mean that many others aren't doing them for themselves.

I read stuff like the part in bold and don't see it as a manly man thing, at all.

I know how to patch drywall, refinish furniture, paint, strip wallpaper, hang pictures, level a wobbly table, build simple stuff, use a miter box/wood glue/choose nails, snake a plumbing problem, stop minor leaks, drive a stick shift, kill bugs/set mouse traps, etc - because of my dad.

He also taught me to sew a straight seam, replace a button, write a heartfelt thank you note, garden (which I'm not so great at), cook, bake, wash/properly fold laundry, and maintain a home.

IMO it isn't a question of being a man or not - it's a symptom of an increasingly lazy and ambivalent society who sees no true value in the ability to take care of/do for oneself.

 

[wicked woman]

I can't say I've seen any lack on men around, or any increase in wimps.

curlykat what you're describing in Germany reminds me of a traditional 50s marriage...woman looks after the home (cooking, cleaning, laundry) and family and man looks after the yard, the car and working outside the home.

graceanne - my Dad was never able to do any of that stuff...his limit was hanging pictures and writing a cheque for all handyman stuff. He had no interest nor talent in making/fixing things and his logic was that he was better doing what he did well and paying someone else for what he didn't want to do...and I don't think any one would refer to my Dad as a woose.


I think what has happened is that just as women have been given more options in what's acceptable to be a woman, men have been given more options (albeit not as many) in what's acceptable to be a man. As a mother, I raised my sons to be able to cook and do the laundry and be a good father, among other things. I also taught them that it was ok to cry and that all of their emotions were ok. On their own they learned how to build/fix things.


I've often thought that society was unfair to men, expecting them to always be the strong one. It only makes sense to me that if we want men to be more open, share more of their emotions with us, that as women, sometimes we need to be the strong one.

But then I've always been more into being the best you can be, versus various stereotypes of what's appropriate behaviour according to gender.

 

[graceanne]

Helloo! I said I was playing devils advocate! This is a fluff thread and I can be a snarky and silly as I want in fluff threads.

 

[Keroin]

Helloo! I said I was playing devils advocate! This is a fluff thread and I can be a snarky and silly as I want in fluff threads.

Yes, just be careful of the rocks.

p.s. The coconut cake was really yummy! (And she gave me some breadfruit lasagna, too).

 

[ZRT]

IMO it isn't a question of being a man or not - it's a symptom of an increasingly lazy and ambivalent society who sees no true value in the ability to take care of/do for oneself.

Or a society that's running fast and hard, with people who are tied into so many commitments that they don't have the time and energy to maintain the basics. Combine this with the short obsolescence cycle and the sheer amount of gadgetry we have to keep track of these days for what people consider necessary to keep up a comfortable household, and it's somewhat overwhelming.

 

[00Syd]

My main problem right now is that while my man is most assuredly a man with crrpy-crawly-killing sized balls, he refuses to kill spiders for me because they are good for the ecosystem or some shit. Alright, but can't they be good for the ecosystem OUTSIDE??? He won't even pick them up in a cup and put them out.

Its bad news bears.

All other creepy things he will kill, but the ONE creepy-crawler that actually creeps me out? No can do, dude.

And like Netz said, the only time I've been truly freaked out by a roach was this one time when I was down in Florida visiting my Grandma and a giant roach flew out of a lamp after I reached in to turn it on. Ick.

 

[Keroin]

Good morning everyone! Here’s a little breakfast to chew on…

MWY, I didn’t say the majority of men are unmanly, not even close. In all seriousness, I am seeing a rise in unmanliness, mostly among young men. The roach example was only a quasi-serious metaphor.

So what does it mean to be a “man”? To me, it’s not about killing bugs and doing your own home repairs, it’s about strength of character, which applies equally to women. Technically, the question could be, “Where are all the women and men?”

Let me give you some examples of men I consider “real men” and I’ll talk more about why after I eat my real breakfast.


Man...

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/arts/photos/2006/05/19/suzuki-nude_cp_10037600.jpg

Man...

http://www.dalailama.com/images/pgallery/printable1.jpg

Man...

http://localcrank.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/mlk.jpg