Ireland's Catholic Institutions Scandal

[voluptuary_manque]

What I find appalling is the fact that not 1 of those pedophiles will ever see the inside of a courtroom or prison. That will never be held accountable for their actions. These criminal acts have occurred for decades and will continue with the churches blessing. Once a mention of improper contact with a child is suggested the Church, removes the accused from the area and "reassigns" them to a different church half a world away. They will never be held responsible for the innocence they have stolen, the little lives they have destroyed, and the dreams of those children they have shattered. They then move on to a new selection of victims and gratify their deviant urges yet again. The Catholic Church allows it and denies any culpability for its lack of action. There is no greater institute with such arrogance and blatant disregard for humanity and children as the Catholic Church.

The sexual abuse and rape of child is the most heinous of all crimes known to man. Almost all over the world preying on a child for sexual gratification is an unacceptable and criminal act. Even within the prison system across the nation where people have been convicted of the most unspeakable acts against humanity, all persons are accepted with one exception and that is the pedophile.

And when a pedophile is imprisoned, the records are falsified for the prisoner's own protection because the other inmates will beat the perp to death if they ever find out . . . but not within the priesthood!

 

[cloudy]

These criminal acts have occurred for decades and will continue with the churches blessing.

This isn't true. No church, not even the Roman Catholic Church, "blesses" actions like these.

Covers them up, sure. They're heinous acts, I agree, and I don't have any love for organized religion, but the acts are the fault of the individuals.

 

[cloudy]

No, of course it wouldn't be better. I think we all know that. The point is that the priests represent and speak for an institutionalized religion that condemns certain sexual practices as abnormal and sinful (including masturbation), but then their own priests, the ones supposedly remaining sexually pure to prove their faith in their church and all it teaches, are engaging in pedophilia.

So, no it makes it no better for the kid if he is raped by a married teacher at a boarding school or a celibate priest, but it does undermine the trust of the faithful and public opinion in general of an institutionalized religion if their celibate priests, preaching abstinence and heterosexual marriage from the pulpit are raping children. And not only getting away with it, but being aided and abetted by the church itself! How can anything the church says or preaches, thought such priests, be trusted or believed?

In the case of the boarding school, we only have an untrustworthy boarding school and teacher (or teachers). We do not have an untrustworthy religious institution. That, I think, is what James meant.

Child molester/abuser=child molester/abuser. The fact that one is a priest and one is a teacher or whatever makes absolutely no difference. Neither one is "worse," since they are both horrible.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lass714
What I find appalling is the fact that not 1 of those pedophiles will ever see the inside of a courtroom or prison. That will never be held accountable for their actions. These criminal acts have occurred for decades and will continue with the churches blessing.

This isn't true. No church, not even the Roman Catholic Church, "blesses" actions like these.

Covers them up, sure. They're heinous acts, I agree, and I don't have any love for organized religion, but the acts are the fault of the individuals.

They didn't bless such things, or even encourage them, but they went beyond covering them up to the point of enabling. After getting complaints of a pedophile priest, they quietly transferred the offender to a new parish, where he wasn't known, so he could resume his heinous acts. Bernard law, the Archbishop of Boston, may have been the worst of the enablers.

 

[mismused]

******

 

[cloudy]

I agree that they cover it up. Indeed, that's exactly what I said. I blame the Church for that. The perpetrators should face the same penalties that others would.

I don't, however, blame the church for the actions of the individual.

 

[WRJames]

Child molester/abuser=child molester/abuser. The fact that one is a priest and one is a teacher or whatever makes absolutely no difference. Neither one is "worse," since they are both horrible.

Both equally horrible for the child, of course.

But the hypocritical stance of the priests, publicly condemning almost any sort of sexuality while privately engaging in the worst perversions ---

As for cover ups and social acceptance -- look at that article I posted on the English boarding schools. No one there was going to jail, either. In fact, judges were going out of their way to throw the cases out of court.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I agree that they cover it up. Indeed, that's exactly what I said. I blame the Church for that. The perpetrators should face the same penalties that others would.

I don't, however, blame the church for the actions of the individual.

The officials in the church are another issue entirely. Bureaucracies exist to protect themselves above all.

 

[WRJames]

Of course, a complicating factor is that there have been false accusations of child abuse. There is about as much outrage against unscrupulous prosecutors conducting witch hunts as there is against abusers.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudy
I agree that they cover it up. Indeed, that's exactly what I said. I blame the Church for that. The perpetrators should face the same penalties that others would.

I don't, however, blame the church for the actions of the individual.

The officials in the church are another issue entirely. Bureaucracies exist to protect themselves above all.

And, the officials the most to blame rank very high in ther heirarchy. I believe John Paul II was actually part of it. Mostly, you hear good things about the man, but he did cover, at least indirectly, for truly foul persons.

 

[mismused]

******

 

[Lynabo]

Religion is an excellent cloak for extremism. This leads on to unspeakable acts.

 

[Handley_Page]

Rumour has it that the Irish judiciary are keen to investigate and if necessary, prosecute, offenders.

 

[xssve]

Over the years I have come across references to goings on in English boarding schools -- so I did a Google search on "boarding schools" and "sodomy".

A lot of hits, including for example this.

So it may be a problem common to all residential institutions for children?

More reprehensible, though, when the children are there against their will, and the molesters are supposed to be celibate.

Institutional psychopathy is nothing new, traditionally the rule rather than the exception - not only do psychopaths and sociopaths gravitate towards institutions that provide cover, but the institution itself often "creates" them by creating the opportunity and shielding them from consequences - this was established in the Stanford prison experiment.

This is what I'm referring to when I mention "institutional psychopathy", it's a significant aspect of any and all authoritarian institutions - far from being shocked, you can pretty much assume it.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Rumour has it that the Irish judiciary are keen to investigate and if necessary, prosecute, offenders.

One can only hope!

 

[Pure]

some pertinent info

in Canada the problem was not exclusively an RC problem.

wiki article on canadian residential schools.

[start excerpt] Funded under the Indian Act by Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, a branch of the federal government, the schools were run by churches of various denominations — about sixty per cent by Roman Catholics, and thirty per cent by the Anglican Church of Canada and the United Church of Canada, along with its pre-1925 predecessors, Presbyterian, Congregationalist and Methodist churches.

The foundations of the system were the pre-confederation Gradual Civilization Act (1857) and the Gradual Enfranchisement Act (1869). These assumed the inherent superiority of British ways, and the need for Indians to become English-speakers, Christians, and farmers. At the time, aboriginal leaders wanted these acts overturned.[4]

The attempt to force assimilation involved punishing children for speaking their own languages or practicing their own faiths, leading to allegations in the 20th century of cultural genocide and ethnocide. There was widespread physical and sexual abuse. Overcrowding, poor sanitation, and a lack of medical care led to high rates of tuberculosis, and death rates of up to 69 percent.[5] [end excerpt]
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in simple terms, the abuse of children, poor, and/or aboriginal, in institutions is a problem of power. and society's indifference to these children. there is a bit of a 'beam in one's own eye' issue here: US folks attacking the Irish for maltreatment of children. how about some material on the Florida foster care system, resultant deaths, etc. i'm pretty sure FL's "child welfare" system is administered mostly by protestants.

 

[cloudy]

in Canada the problem was not exclusively an RC problem.

wiki article on canadian residential schools.

[start excerpt] Funded under the Indian Act by Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, a branch of the federal government, the schools were run by churches of various denominations — about sixty per cent by Roman Catholics, and thirty per cent by the Anglican Church of Canada and the United Church of Canada, along with its pre-1925 predecessors, Presbyterian, Congregationalist and Methodist churches.

The foundations of the system were the pre-confederation Gradual Civilization Act (1857) and the Gradual Enfranchisement Act (1869). These assumed the inherent superiority of British ways, and the need for Indians to become English-speakers, Christians, and farmers. At the time, aboriginal leaders wanted these acts overturned.[4]

The attempt to force assimilation involved punishing children for speaking their own languages or practicing their own faiths, leading to allegations in the 20th century of cultural genocide and ethnocide. There was widespread physical and sexual abuse. Overcrowding, poor sanitation, and a lack of medical care led to high rates of tuberculosis, and death rates of up to 69 percent.[5] [end excerpt]
-------

in simple terms, the abuse of children, poor, and/or aboriginal, in institutions is a problem of power. and society's indifference to these children. there is a bit of a 'beam in one's own eye' issue here: US folks attacking the Irish for maltreatment of children. how about some material on the Florida foster care system, resultant deaths, etc. i'm pretty sure Fl's "child welfare" system is administered mostly by protestants.

Thank you for making my point, Pure.

 

[mismused]

******