Should it be ok to play away if...

[TonyUK]

So I'm thinking about the whole indiscretion/affair/playing away thing and how so many relationships get wrecked because of it. Now I'm not saying that an open relationship is necessarily the way forward but surely the worst thing about it is the betrayal of trust. Being let down by the one person who you thought you really could trust and rely on to be honest with you. So if you could take away the betrayal aspect could it be acceptable to play away once in a while?

I'm in my second marriage now and both of our first marriages broke down due to one partner being unfaithful; so when we first got together it was something we talked about, admitting that these things do happen to, (probably statistically) most people! So way back then we kind of gave each other permission, that if ever either of us was in a situation where an opportunity arose to have a little fun, then it was ok to go ahead. This way it may never happen but... if it does and the truth comes to light, then however upset one person may be, there has been no betrayal - which is certainly the worst aspect of knowing your partner has been with another.

I like to go to the pub with my wife but I still want to go with my mates without her sometimes. We ride motorbikes together, but I like to go out on my own now and again. We run together but she also likes to run alone or with a girlfriend... My point is that we do lots of things together and lots of things with other people; why should sex be any different? We both go away from time to time for days at a time; why not use that time to indulge in all our hobbies and not just the 'normal' ones?

We have some different interests with regards to sex so why should one of us miss out just because the other doesn't want to do what I/she wants? If you/I are discreet and it doesn't take over then why not have fun elsewhere?

So what do other Lit'ers think - should it ever be ok to play elsewhere; love to know what you all think...

 

[faithchick]

So I'm thinking about the whole indiscretion/affair/playing away thing and how so many relationships get wrecked because of it. Now I'm not saying that an open relationship is necessarily the way forward but surely the worst thing about it is the betrayal of trust. Being let down by the one person who you thought you really could trust and rely on to be honest with you. So if you could take away the betrayal aspect could it be acceptable to play away once in a while?

I'm in my second marriage now and both of our first marriages broke down due to one partner being unfaithful; so when we first got together it was something we talked about, admitting that these things do happen to, (probably statistically) most people! So way back then we kind of gave each other permission, that if ever either of us was in a situation where an opportunity arose to have a little fun, then it was ok to go ahead. This way it may never happen but... if it does and the truth comes to light, then however upset one person may be, there has been no betrayal - which is certainly the worst aspect of knowing your partner has been with another.

I like to go to the pub with my wife but I still want to go with my mates without her sometimes. We ride motorbikes together, but I like to go out on my own now and again. We run together but she also likes to run alone or with a girlfriend... My point is that we do lots of things together and lots of things with other people; why should sex be any different? We both go away from time to time for days at a time; why not use that time to indulge in all our hobbies and not just the 'normal' ones?

We have some different interests with regards to sex so why should one of us miss out just because the other doesn't want to do what I/she wants? If you/I are discreet and it doesn't take over then why not have fun elsewhere?

So what do other Lit'ers think - should it ever be ok to play elsewhere; love to know what you all think...

Great question, but I don't think it's ever OK to cheat. To many feeling get hurt, and it's almost impossible to rebuild that trust again. If you want to cheat, and are that serious about it,then in my opinion,leave the relationship. Being someone who has been cheated on, it hurts alot, and the self doubts still haven't gone away. But thankfully he'll be out of my life soon

 

[TonyUK]

Great question, but I don't think it's ever OK to cheat. To many feeling get hurt, and it's almost impossible to rebuild that trust again. If you want to cheat, and are that serious about it,then in my opinion,leave the relationship. Being someone who has been cheated on, it hurts alot, and the self doubts still haven't gone away. But thankfully he'll be out of my life soon

Thanks for your input but my point was can we do it without cheating? If the go ahead is given when neither of you are interested, and one day down the road one partner has sex with someone else then it's not really cheating. There is no break of trust surely???

BTW Love the latest pics...

 

[faithchick]

Thanks for your input but my point was can we do it without cheating? If the go ahead is given when neither of you are interested, and one day down the road one partner has sex with someone else then it's not really cheating. There is no break of trust surely???

BTW Love the latest pics...

I just don't see it working. Sorry but in my mind even if we discuss it, and say it's ok down the road... once your lips start touching, and once your dick enters her, in my mind that's all I would ever think about. I'm kinda a possessive person, so for me it would never work. If your women is willing to go for it then best of luck sweetie.

Thanks

 

[TonyUK]

I just don't see it working. Sorry but in my mind even if we discuss it, and say it's ok down the road... once your lips start touching, and once your dick enters her, in my mind that's all I would ever think about. I'm kinda a possessive person, so for me it would never work. If your women is willing to go for it then best of luck sweetie.

Thanks

Fair comment; I have no intention of my wife finding out if I get up to anything but if she ever does the at least we had the initial chat so there is no betrayal. And yes, of course it works both ways. I just know that I don't want to lose her and would forgive almost anything - except betrayal - this way there won't be any. (He says...)

 

[helix27]

My thought is that yes you may go out and have drinks with friends, Or do things alone. That yes, you have your own time in a marraige but some things have to be special and sacered to the marraige. Othewise whats the point of being married? Sex is one of those things. I can fully understand if you two chose to share or birng others into the realtionship. If thats your thing thats fine but you both are a part of it and know. Just cause you want to fuck some random chick you see at the bar or where ever, because you guys gave "permission" it isnt really trully ok. Turst me if she did find out i doubt that she will be ok with it. Heck if you want to know for sure ask her now. "hey dear there is this chick at the bar i really want to screw. since we had our little talk i think its ok." Then she will go screw some guy to try to make herself feel better or get back at you. so on and so forth... things grow apart, ugly arguement, divorce. just my two cents.

 

[blackdragonfly]

I know from my expeirince I have givin permisson to my partner to sleep with other people in the way your discribing. BUT I did not want him/her to do it!! I more or less said ok so that I would seem like that perfect gf and when somthing did happen I was devistated.

At least for me if my man was fucking somone else then the only thing I can think of is what he was doin with her.......but more then that, "why I am I not good enough for him, what am I doing wrong?"

I would be very carful with this. Im sure there are some women out there that could do this and be ok with it, but I would say not many. More so then that really ask yourself if you found out she fucked some guy at the office/bar/whatever right now........fucking him as you read this, how does it make you feel? If you both can answer just fine then I would say go for it. If there is even a twindge of negitivity then just go back to fantasising.

good luck!!

 

[helix27]

At least for me if my man was fucking somone else then the only thing I can think of is what he was doin with her.......but more then that, "why I am I not good enough for him, what am I doing wrong?"

yip pretty much what i was thinking in my head when i said...

Then she will go screw some guy to try to make herself feel better or get back at you. so on and so forth... things grow apart, ugly arguement, divorce. just my two cents.

bad mojo all over this one man. just say no.

 

[Pinktacokitty]

I can think of no reasonable excuse for having sex with someone else when you are in a committed relationship, does not matter if you have the paper that says you are married or not. If you commit to another person keep your word and trust intact........

 

[TonyUK]

All very interesting points; thanks for all the comments/opinions.
Very quiet on the other side of the argument though - any takers?

 

[Stryderthorongil]

I can think of no reasonable excuse for having sex with someone else when you are in a committed relationship, does not matter if you have the paper that says you are married or not. If you commit to another person keep your word and trust intact........

Made me feel good seeing you write this. Not sure why....

 

[Pinktacokitty]

Made me feel good seeing you write this. Not sure why....

lol......I have never cheated on a guy when in a committed relationship, but have been cheated on. It hurts........

 

[Sumptuousskin]

I am in my first relationship ever, with a woman. She is 17 years older than me, has been married twice and this is her second relationship with another woman. I am 21, we have been together for 2 years. She has a lot of self esteem issues.
We are in an "open" relationship. One which we thoroughly discussed and agreed upon. By open, i mean i have issued her no boundaries and whilst i don't cheat, she has slept with other men. She has come completely clean about these occasions.
Now i am aware some people may put this down to being naive and young and the most horrible possible by-product of both of those, plain stupid, but i am not privy to the way the world works- i have a good solid head on my shoulders, i am confident in who i am and that I am currently very happy in my situation (2 years together and we still have filthy, adventurous sex). Perhaps this is naive but it is the path i am choosing.
Now I believe this kind of open, boundary-less relationship can work if its ENTIRELY consensual. I'm not insisting for one second that because i practice it its going to work, its just my current opinion and my current situation.
I'm not a very possessive person, i have had bad experiences of jealousy and think whilst it can be an aphrodisiac in some ways- it's quite destructive and very consuming. Don't get me wrong i feel jealous sometimes but i'm very rational and i like to think before i let rip something that might have been said in a fit that i don't mean.
(Unless i just want to rip her clothes off)

Good lord, I've written a book!
Anyway thats my rather dull take on the situation! Interesting question!

 

[TonyUK]

I am in my first relationship ever, with a woman. She is 17 years older than me, has been married twice and this is her second relationship with another woman. I am 21, we have been together for 2 years. She has a lot of self esteem issues.
We are in an "open" relationship. One which we thoroughly discussed and agreed upon. By open, i mean i have issued her no boundaries and whilst i don't cheat, she has slept with other men. She has come completely clean about these occasions.
Now i am aware some people may put this down to being naive and young and the most horrible possible by-product of both of those, plain stupid, but i am not privy to the way the world works- i have a good solid head on my shoulders, i am confident in who i am and that I am currently very happy in my situation (2 years together and we still have filthy, adventurous sex). Perhaps this is naive but it is the path i am choosing.
Now I believe this kind of open, boundary-less relationship can work if its ENTIRELY consensual. I'm not insisting for one second that because i practice it its going to work, its just my current opinion and my current situation.
I'm not a very possessive person, i have had bad experiences of jealousy and think whilst it can be an aphrodisiac in some ways- it's quite destructive and very consuming. Don't get me wrong i feel jealous sometimes but i'm very rational and i like to think before i let rip something that might have been said in a fit that i don't mean.
(Unless i just want to rip her clothes off)

Good lord, I've written a book!
Anyway thats my rather dull take on the situation! Interesting question!

Good for you! And because it's consensual she's NOT cheating. And that is my point; there is no breakdown of trust!

 

[briansmith98]

If you are trying to justify a plan in your head/heart/dick, you will always find someone to help you out with that. And it costs them nothing to live vicariously through your adventure. I'm not sure every mate at the pub would give you sound advice, especially after a few pints. I don't know your mates, just the wisdom found in beer

I think most people here are a little more thoughtful than to just go along with the conclusion you seem to have already formed, and we respect the serious nature of your question. Your question seems to have a built-in supposition that if you can get by the technicality of "betrayal of trust" by removing boundaries, then you can have your cake and eat someone else's too.

The best test was already suggested. Go to her and say you plan to do it. If you aren't ready to do that, then your work isn't with her, or some other woman. Your work is in the mirror.

A study was done about kids (I heard about this in college) - when on a playground, groups of kids frequently played along the fences, and some in academia thought it was sad that they should have such arbitrary boundaries placed on them (you know, like staying out of traffic, away from predators, and under adult supervision). So they removed the fences from the playground to help the kids feel better about it. The funniest shit happened: the kids mostly huddled towards the center of the playground. They had no boundaries, no security. Boundaries are the only thing that tells our selfish minds where we stop and someone else begins. Or else we would think everything we see should somehow be ours.

"Good fences make good neighbors." The fence defines the yard, the boundary. It makes clear the understanding that you have a place among others and they deserve respect (and they will generally reciprocate the same respect you offer).

If you don't like the fence, are you sure you want to even be in the yard?

 

[TonyUK]

If you are trying to justify a plan in your head/heart/dick, you will always find someone to help you out with that. And it costs them nothing to live vicariously through your adventure. I'm not sure every mate at the pub would give you sound advice, especially after a few pints. I don't know your mates, just the wisdom found in beer

I think most people here are a little more thoughtful than to just go along with the conclusion you seem to have already formed, and we respect the serious nature of your question. Your question seems to have a built-in supposition that if you can get by the technicality of "betrayal of trust" by removing boundaries, then you can have your cake and eat someone else's too.

The best test was already suggested. Go to her and say you plan to do it. If you aren't ready to do that, then your work isn't with her, or some other woman. Your work is in the mirror.

A study was done about kids (I heard about this in college) - when on a playground, groups of kids frequently played along the fences, and some in academia thought it was sad that they should have such arbitrary boundaries placed on them (you know, like staying out of traffic, away from predators, and under adult supervision). So they removed the fences from the playground to help the kids feel better about it. The funniest shit happened: the kids mostly huddled towards the center of the playground. They had no boundaries, no security. Boundaries are the only thing that tells our selfish minds where we stop and someone else begins. Or else we would think everything we see should somehow be ours.

"Good fences make good neighbors." The fence defines the yard, the boundary. It makes clear the understanding that you have a place among others and they deserve respect (and they will generally reciprocate the same respect you offer).

If you don't like the fence, are you sure you want to even be in the yard?

Thanks for that, it's a very interesting and well thought out argument.

 

[TonyUK]

But what if there never was a fence, or such a small one that it's insignificant and offers no challenge. A bit like an open prison where 'inmates' know they're better off if they stay; perhaps that's why after 12 years we're both still "huddled around the centre of the playground"?

And in my case at least it's more of a hypothetical question than anything more serious.

 

[briansmith98]

But what if there never was a fence, or such a small one that it's insignificant and offers no challenge. A bit like an open prison where 'inmates' know they're better off if they stay; perhaps that's why after 12 years we're both still "huddled around the centre of the playground"?

And in my case at least it's more of a hypothetical question than anything more serious.

I'm not Dr. Phil, but I am still married, and after all the time playing here, there's no other woman I want to be with in bed or in life (it has little to do with her body, either). My thoughts here are not a lecture, rather I'm sharing my own journey of how to not squander what I've been given in life. It has so far worked for me.

I'm sorry about what you described as your prison. In my illustration about the kids above, the fence was a tangible physical boundary. But in relationships, we understand the boundaries to be symbolic. Relationship boundaries aren't meant to keep people in, but rather to keep those who don't belong to the relationship out. A contract, even before God (if you dig it), can never keep a person in a marriage. Only our choice can do that. Do you agree that the hypothetical question reveals your actual desires? I contend that we act on who we are in our thoughts, even i ways we don't perceive at the time. We kid ourselves into believing what we want to believe, and no one else's feelings or well-reasoned position can alter that. If we skirt our reflection in the mirror, what aren't we telling ourselves? Take a long hard 90 second look at your own eyes. Don't look away, and see what you find.

An unfulfilled person is motivated to change their unfulfilling situation (leave the marriage, make the marriage better, or execute some self-induced death wish to force the other person to do it). Your description sounds unfulfilled to me, so let's assume you have "motive" to want out/more/better. Maybe you can talk it over with her, or maybe that's difficult in your situation. My wife and I occasionally write letters to each other on difficult issues, because the talking gets interrupted and animated and misunderstood. The letter writing gives us the chance to polish it, and so see ourselves in a mirror before we deliver something painful. But for the sake of whatever you two have in common (kids, assets, history) please don't try to justify finding a momentary satisfaction on the side by a technicality. Ross tried that "We were on a break" thing It didn't work for him either. That "My parent split because my mom/dad had an affair" thing lingers for generations.

I won't belabor these points any longer, or rant at you . I'm open to the dialogue as long as you or anyone else is.

Brian

 

[briansmith98]

I'm not Dr. Phil, but I am still married, and after all the time playing here, there's no other woman I want to be with in bed or in life (it has little to do with her body, either). My thoughts here are not a lecture, rather I'm sharing my own journey of how to not squander what I've been given in life. It has so far worked for me.

I see your PM, and thanks for the clarification. Please take what you can use from my thoughts and experiences. Honor yourself and your family in all you do, even if you two agree to open up your marriage.

Good luck...

 

[TonyUK]

I see your PM, and thanks for the clarification. Please take what you can use from my thoughts and experiences. Honor yourself and your family in all you do, even if you two agree to open up your marriage.

Good luck...

Just for the sake of anyone interested, (Brian knows this) my marriage is in no way a prison; I was using it as an example about the fence being small - and happily self immposed, but a fence nevertheless. And because the fence is easy to just step over, I don't feel the need to do it. It's not a forbidden fruit so I'm not really that bothered about chasing it. I was more interestd in the opinions of others than soul searching my own - I know which seide my bread's buttered!!!

Anyway, enough cliches for one post