Should the United States pay Ransom?

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The citation is in #44, Floyd.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertPirate
The ransom should be delivered late at night by SEALS coming out of the water. Knives are the best form of delivery.

Maybe you could go wave your gun in the air some more, and they'll let him go.

btw: how in the hell do you justify your "all life is sacred" gig with your love of violence?

I'm a bit late, but I am going to chime in here anyhow:

I am pro-choice, and DP is anti-abortion, but on this we agree without reservations. I have neither sympathy nor mercy nor pity for wrong-doers. Kill the pirates, but if you capture them alive, convict them at a captain's mast and hang them from the yardarm, if there still is such a thing on a ship. If there isn't, hang them from somewhere else. The important thing is to let everybody know that such actions will not be tolerated, regardless of race, religion or national origin. I say that remembering the Thai pirates who used to attack boat people about thirty or forty years ago.

I didn't answer the poll because it was ambiguous. I believe it might be necessary for the US to pay ransom, as a last resort, for those abducted while on US business, such as the Iranian hostages or the Bay of Pigs prisoners. We should not, as a nation, pay ransom under any other circumstances, and the first efforts should be to kill or capture the abductors. If we capture them, give them a fair trial and, if convicted, hang them as soon as possible. I mean hang them literally, not figuratively.

 

[sr71plt]

The citation is in #44, Floyd.

The Defense Department frustration concerns long-term counteroperations (on land) against the Al-Shabab international terrorist organization, numbskull, not the current separate nonpolitical pirate kidnap-for-ransom operation off the Somali coast.

You sort of have to know how to read a newspaper. They combined the stories merely on a geographic connection to expand the number of readers of the article.

 

[DesertPirate]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertPirate
The ransom should be delivered late at night by SEALS coming out of the water. Knives are the best form of delivery.




I'm a bit late, but I am going to chime in here anyhow:

I am pro-choice, and DP is anti-abortion, but on this we agree without reservations. I have neither sympathy nor mercy nor pity for wrong-doers. Kill the pirates, but if you capture them alive, convict them at a captain's mast and hang them from the yardarm, if there still is such a thing on a ship. If there isn't, hang them from somewhere else. The important thing is to let everybody know that such actions will not be tolerated, regardless of race, religion or national origin. I say that remembering the Thai pirates who used to attack boat people about thirty or forty years ago.

I didn't answer the poll because it was ambiguous. I believe it might be necessary for the US to pay ransom, as a last resort, for those abducted while on US business, such as the Iranian hostages or the Bay of Pigs prisoners. We should not, as a nation, pay ransom under any other circumstances, and the first efforts should be to kill or capture the abductors. If we capture them, give them a fair trial and, if convicted, hang them as soon as possible. I mean hang them literally, not figuratively.

Thanks Box, I am very pro life, but defense of our citizens and self defense are acceptable. Some people can't tell the difference.

 

[cloudy]

Thanks Box, I am very pro life

...unless their skin color, culture, religious beliefs, or life view is different from yours.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The Defense Department frustration concerns long-term counteroperations (on land) against the Al-Shabab international terrorist organization, numbskull, not the current separate nonpolitical pirate kidnap-for-ransom operation off the Somali coast.

You sort of have to know how to read a newspaper. They combined the stories merely on a geographic connection to expand the number of readers of the article.

SR71PLT (GOLD STAR SUBSCRIBER)
Youre a genius.

 

[ChainedEros]

No.

We shouldn't pay these guys anything.

They don't have the ship. They only have the captain. So, we are effectively at a stalemate. Their only hope is to let the captain go. Otherwise, they will die.

That's the way I would approach it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I expect the pirate's will murder the captain then slip away at night. We''ll be standing around with our dick's in our hands.

 

[ChainedEros]

Slip away to where? They are more than a hundred miles offshore with no boat. They are stuck. We need to force the issue.

 

[sr71plt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertPirate
The ransom should be delivered late at night by SEALS coming out of the water. Knives are the best form of delivery.




I'm a bit late, but I am going to chime in here anyhow:

I am pro-choice, and DP is anti-abortion, but on this we agree without reservations. I have neither sympathy nor mercy nor pity for wrong-doers. Kill the pirates, but if you capture them alive, convict them at a captain's mast and hang them from the yardarm, if there still is such a thing on a ship. If there isn't, hang them from somewhere else. The important thing is to let everybody know that such actions will not be tolerated, regardless of race, religion or national origin. I say that remembering the Thai pirates who used to attack boat people about thirty or forty years ago.

I didn't answer the poll because it was ambiguous. I believe it might be necessary for the US to pay ransom, as a last resort, for those abducted while on US business, such as the Iranian hostages or the Bay of Pigs prisoners. We should not, as a nation, pay ransom under any other circumstances, and the first efforts should be to kill or capture the abductors. If we capture them, give them a fair trial and, if convicted, hang them as soon as possible. I mean hang them literally, not figuratively.

You armchair warriors are mixing two things together here (and "kill 'em and save the captain" is a wishful goal, not a plan of action).

One is trying to get the American citizen back alive. For that goal, the safest possibility is to wait the pirates out. I have no idea why you gun rattlers can't see that as the best option. They aren't going anywhere in the meantime and any assault will surely get the captain killed and won't be any better than just waiting them out to see if they can get the American back alive. (Which I sort of doubt is possible. The only saving grace is that this isn't a political issue; the captors have no reason to play the newspaper-splash martyr roles.)

Two is what to do about the pirates. On that, I agree that, once the status of the captain is settled, just blow them and all those mother ships lurking out there out of the water. I'm not sure I see that happening--and it's not a Republican vs. Democratic response thing. It was the Bush administration that "brilliantly" let Saddam Hussein crawl out of the hidey hole alive and live to tweak our noses again and again, for example.

One reason it probably won't happen is that what happens now has ramifications for how the pirates approach ship takings in the future. I'm with you on there not being a future for pirate ship takings because the pirates have been wiped out--but that's a separate issue from the current one--and is a whole lot easier to say than to do.

In international law, this is all murky. There is no legal justification for taking the pirates down. Unbelievable, but true, there are no provisions in international law for murdering private people (the pirates) on the high seas. The closest you can come to legally justifying do so would be application of the law of the closest nation, which, in this case is Somali--which hasn't signed on to any international agreements for such action.

If I was in the counsels mulling this, I would argue that the absence of law is a good thing. Just blow them out of the water. There's no law saying that isn't justified on the high seas.

But neither I nor anyone else here is sitting in on the meetings--which are, without a doubt, looking heavily at the ramifications of any such action. First, there's the question of how pirates act in future activities with a view to what happened in this one. And second, which should not be lost on the warriors among us, we are already too-deeply bogged down in two land wars and our navy is stretched thinly across the globe on its various missions. The whole reason we haven't gotten involved in real terrorist support activities going on in Somali (to get back to JBJ's misguided comment) is that, thanks to the military commitments the Bush administration bogged us down in, we ain't got the men and equipment to take care of the wars we're already embroiled in, much less starting new ones elsewhere.

There's such a thing as reality--which, of course, arm chair warriors never worry about. And it doesn't have a damn thing to do with which party is in office.

 

[Belegon]

Slip away to where? They are more than a hundred miles offshore with no boat. They are stuck. We need to force the issue.

Your two statements make no sense together.

They are stuck. Force the issue.


Statement number one is the most impactful argument for why we should NOT force the issue.

If you can't make the intellectual leap yourself, read up on the history of warfare and something called a siege.

The best chance to get our man back alive is by being patient and denying them any hope of relief.

I'll pay a ransom of food and water... and then they will STILL be stuck under my guns. In not much time, the brig is gonna start seeming like a comfy alternative.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

There's a rumor out of Washington that Obama met with Pelosi & Reid, and a contract will be made with the Somali pirates to assume the work of the US NAVY in the Red Sea area. An unnamed White House source also reports that Obama may offer the Somali pirates a contract to protect the Port of New York.

 

[amicus]

CNN is reporting that the pirates holding the Captain, fired upon a small boat launched by the US Bainbridge, have not been able to confirm that with online press releases.

http://media.maersk.com/en/PressReleases/2009/Pages/APMM080409.aspx

http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/maersk-alabama-lifeboat-faq/

http://www.congoo.com/news/2009April11/Pirates-hijack-Italian-tugboat

http://www.newsmeat.com/news/meat.p...&channelId=2951&buyerId=newsmeatcom&buid=3281

http://aubreyj818.blogspot.com/2009/04/post-update-two-somali-piratesus.html

~~~

Still no 'official' word out of Washington D.C.; apologists for the new administration may now take the stage.

Amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

I wonder what Obama does when he has to shit.

What's sad is we've reached a time when the correct response is a complete puzzle to us. Piracy didnt suddenly fall from the sky. The lads and lassies have likely formulated quick, effective tactics to rescue hostages. But we're not certain what the politic thing to do is.

 

[amicus]

Also heard on the news that the lifeboat holding the Captain and the pirates is now said to be only about 20 miles off the coast of Somali. It was also said that the US Navy would not permit the lifeboat to be taken ashore or captured by other pirates....this is all from various news channels, as Obama can't seem to locate the toilet paper.

Ami

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

I dont believe what theyre reporting.

A SEAL could attach the lifeboat to a destroyer, and no one aboard the lifeboat could prevent it.

I dont think the Navy will stop the boat from drifting ashore.

 

[sr71plt]

AMICUS

I wonder what Obama does when he has to shit.

What's sad is we've reached a time when the correct response is a complete puzzle to us. Piracy didnt suddenly fall from the sky. The lads and lassies have likely formulated quick, effective tactics to rescue hostages. But we're not certain what the politic thing to do is.

And, as noted before, these pirates didn't just start operations yesterday. They've been around for some time. What you see is the policy on this that the United States can afford (where do you think the money, men, and equipment would come from to police all of the oceans?). What you see happening, which any professional would tell you is sufficient and appropriate, is the policy formulated some time ago--well into prior administrations.

Stop being such a naive Chicken Little.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SR71PLT

There's nothing fastastical about 4 men in a tub with a hostage. The problem isnt novel.

When the APOLLO 13 craft exploded in space, the engineers and crew fixed the problem.

It's a safe assumption that the military has a process for rescuing hostages.

So, either I have it all wrong, and theyre incompetent, or the President is indecisive and afraid.

 

[amicus]

Sat back, I did, late this afternoon, closed my eyes and tried to picture what the Captain being held hostage might be thinking.

One cannot be certain, of course, but from the accounts rendered thus far, the Captain seems to have done a brave and heroic thing by volunteering to be a hostage and again by attempting to escape.

With his actions in mind and now the fourth day passes, what must he be thinking?

He most likely has seen the Warship nearby; I doubt he shares a language with his pirate captors; I wonder where he goes in his mind?

Amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

When nut boy took me hostage, I sat at my desk thinking, WHAT AM I GONNA DO WITH THIS CLOWN? HE'S GOT A BIG RUSTY KNIFE, AND I GOT A BUNCH OF CLUELESS HALFWITS. ONE'S GOT A BIG FUCKING DOG. WHY DONT HE OPEN THE DOOR AND TURN THE DOG LOOSE ON NUT BOY? THE DOG MUST BE DECORATION.

By now he's done the math and concluded that he pays the government big taxes for them to sit on their asses when he needs them. I GUESS I GOTTA DO THEIR WORK.

He drew that conclusion last night when he made his escape attempt.

 

[Dragonlipz]

SR71PLT

There's nothing fastastical about 4 men in a tub with a hostage. The problem isnt novel.

When the APOLLO 13 craft exploded in space, the engineers and crew fixed the problem.

It's a safe assumption that the military has a process for rescuing hostages.

So, either I have it all wrong, and theyre incompetent, or the President is indecisive and afraid.

Methinks you have it all wrong and have had it ALL wrong for so long that getting it right now wouldn't make any difference.....
JBJ - ignore me if you want, Amicus is afraid or not able to engage one whom he'd have to acknowledge as an American hero......(Lipz sez "TNT - just doin' my job) but! In all truth, if you have any experience in ops (which I doubt) you'd know that nothing is served least of all the success of the operation by any inference that the 'White House' is involved.
For reference: JBJ and Amicus: this is gonna be tough on yer lil soundbyte minds but pay attention:
In 2001, then President Bush was tested by a situation that you TWITS have chosen to ignore. American citizens, that is, an American aircraft was hijacked by the People's Republic of China's forces and forced to land in China - THEY ABDUCTED AND AMERICAN AIRCRAFT AND CREW AND HELD THEM HOSTAGE IN MAINLAND CHINA (WHILE THEY REVERSE ENGINEERED ALL THE SYSTEMS AND EQUIPMENT THEY'D CAPTURED).....THEY TESTED THE NEW PRESIDENT - YOUR BOY - BUSH AND HE CAVED TO THEM.........THEY HAD HIS ASS EVER SINCE!!!!.....IT NEVER STOPPED YOU GUYS - THE SORE LOSER CLUB FROM KISSING BUSH'S BUTT AND ROVE'S AS WELL......
SOUND BYTE BITCHES - EVERY ONE OF YOU......AMI, JBJ, S-DES AND ANYONE ELSE WHO THINKS THAT IT'S GOOD THAT AN AMERICAN IS HUMILIATED BY A PACK OF PUNKS......
DIG THAT

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DRAGONLISP

If you bothered to read my posts you'd know I think George Bush was a num nuts frat boy. The airplane incident was a disgrace. What was the fucking NAVY thinking, sending an unarmed airplane to snoop on the Slopes?

But Dubya coulda done what Billy Jack did, tell the Chinks IN ABOUT 5 SECONDS I'M GONNA TAKE MY RIGHT FOOT AND BITCH-SLAP YOU WITH IT, AND THERE AINT SHIT YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwCZt6jEnJg

 

[sr71plt]

What was the fucking NAVY thinking, sending an unarmed airplane to snoop on the Slopes?

Ummm, maybe they were thinking there was no other choice? All purpose-built photoreconnaisance planes are unarmed.

Again, you talk real big for an armchair cowboy.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Armchair cowboy is honest work. It made America what it is!

 

[sr71plt]

Armchair cowboy is honest work. It made America what it is!

That's right. And the Obama administration is trying to work our way out of that travesty.