Obama Says America is Not a Christian Nation…

[DesertPirate]

Bush's fuckups?
Economy - Clinton changed the mortgage rule. Barney Frank blocked the attempt to fix Fannie and Freddie. Of course Barney's lover was getting $Millions in bonuses at the time.
Now Obama has trippled the debt in less than 100 days. That'll work

World - Bush wouldn't kiss Europes ass before taking action. Obama will kiss Europes ass before wiping his own.

Warrantless wiretaps remain the same - NO CHANGE

HR45 - Most draconian gun ban ever attempted, we will see where it goes.

Great change there, enjoy bread at $10+ a loaf in 3 years (it's called hyper-inflation)

 

[sr71plt]

Bush's fuckups?
Economy - Clinton changed the mortgage rule. Barney Frank blocked the attempt to fix Fannie and Freddie. Of course Barney's lover was getting $Millions in bonuses at the time.
Now Obama has trippled the debt in less than 100 days. That'll work

World - Bush wouldn't kiss Europes ass before taking action. Obama will kiss Europes ass before wiping his own.

Warrantless wiretaps remain the same - NO CHANGE

HR45 - Most draconian gun ban ever attempted, we will see where it goes.

Great change there, enjoy bread at $10+ a loaf in 3 years (it's called hyper-inflation)

Oh, how the Sore Loser Club members love to rationalize.

 

[Belegon]

Oh, how the Sore Loser Club members love to rationalize.

That's more than rationalization, it is sheer blindness to the involvement of people whose policies he supports in favor of blaming those he doesn't support.

Its about as ridiculous and myopic as the Raider fans walking around with Commitment to Excellence tee shirts...

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I spent my youth going to church with my mother. As a teen I would go to church alone, until that fateful day that I was able to drive the family car. By then my mother had stopped going to church, it was a little rough getting up early enough when Saturday night was party night. For that matter so was Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday nights.

Well when I got the car to go to church on Sunday, I wouldn't. I soon became a non-church goer. Flash forward some years to when I met my bride to be. She was Southern Baptist, not fanatical about it, just raised as one. When we went to her church to have the "reverend" perform our ceremony he asked if I was a Christian. I said no I'm Catholic. He then said I wasn't a true Christian. We wound up getting married in a German Lutheran church. They didn't care what faith we followed. As a matter of recollection I don't think the subject ever came up. Just if we had a license.

Well that's when I believe a became an agnostic. As far as Christians went they didn't appear to be very Christian in their actions or words.

So, although this country...or the people of this country might think they are a Christian Nation...most who call themselves Christian are far from being Christian. They may believe in God, but the love of their fellow man falls short in my opinion.

As far as anyones religion...I really don't want to know what you believe in or how strong you believe in that faith. That information is between you and your God. Religion is a private thing and none of the States business.

So is this a Christian Nation? That's a debate that will rage on until the end of time or until the Supreme Being himself appears and tells us all to shut the fuck up.

 

[CharleyH]

http://www.thefoxnation.com/politics/2009/04/07/obama-we-are-not-christian-nation-nation-citizens

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/obama-says-america-is-not-a-christian-nation/

« Turkish Reporter Mocks Obama in Blackface Makeup »

Obama Says America is Not a Christian Nation…


Really?


I defer to the Supreme Court of the United States:

- Justice Brewer [CHURCH OF THE HOLY TRINITY V. UNITED STATES, 143 U. S. 457 (1892)]

~~~

You may think it odd that an avowed atheist would exhibit concern over the above statement by the new President of the United States.

The reason I do, is for the same reason I have been following the vicious assault on a new poster here, wmrs2, a self identified Christian who is defending the faith and being excoriated for it.

In the absence of basic Christian Morality, upon which the United States was founded, there is the relativist/humanistic code of ethics to rely upon, which has proven to be ineffectual in defining moral terms concerning individual human life and a consistent means to understand and judge human actions.

Amicus...

As a Canadian of higher culture, all I can say is that many of us have always found some Americans to be quite backwards. Obama represents the hope that Americans might be more open minded.

 

[cloudy]

As a Canadian of higher culture, all I can say is that many of us have always found some Americans to be quite backwards. Obama represents the hope that Americans might be more open minded.

Well...some of us, anyway.

 

[CharleyH]

Well...some of us, anyway.

At least you.

 

[cloudy]

At least you.

 

[sr71plt]

I spent my youth going to church with my mother. As a teen I would go to church alone, until that fateful day that I was able to drive the family car. By then my mother had stopped going to church, it was a little rough getting up early enough when Saturday night was party night. For that matter so was Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday nights.

Well when I got the car to go to church on Sunday, I wouldn't. I soon became a non-church goer. Flash forward some years to when I met my bride to be. She was Southern Baptist, not fanatical about it, just raised as one. When we went to her church to have the "reverend" perform our ceremony he asked if I was a Christian. I said no I'm Catholic. He then said I wasn't a true Christian. We wound up getting married in a German Lutheran church. They didn't care what faith we followed. As a matter of recollection I don't think the subject ever came up. Just if we had a license.

Well that's when I believe a became an agnostic. As far as Christians went they didn't appear to be very Christian in their actions or words.

So, although this country...or the people of this country might think they are a Christian Nation...most who call themselves Christian are far from being Christian. They may believe in God, but the love of their fellow man falls short in my opinion.

As far as anyones religion...I really don't want to know what you believe in or how strong you believe in that faith. That information is between you and your God. Religion is a private thing and none of the States business.

So is this a Christian Nation? That's a debate that will rage on until the end of time or until the Supreme Being himself appears and tells us all to shut the fuck up.

You're making the same mistake that Amicus does with his lumping of all "liberals" together as one cohesive, like-minded force.

There are loads of Christian denominations that would have performed your marriage ceremony and welcomed you into their congregations if you wanted to come. And, in fact, you post that you did find such a church and that it didn't pin you down.

The decision to become an agnostic, then, which you take up in the very next paragraph, doesn't really stem from what "Christianity" has done to you. Sounds like you were looking for an excuse to reject. That's OK, but there's no blame to be put on the whole host of people claiming to be/seeking to be Christians.

As far as the United States being a "Christian" nation, the negation of this was brought home to me last night in cyber discussion with someone from Australia. I posted that my car was going in the shop today and he asked how that could be, since Good Friday was a holiday--one that, in Australia, apparently, extends through to Sunday, with stores closed. Well, guess what. Not in America. We're downplaying religious holidays here. Now does that move us toward or away from being a "Christian" nation. ("Away" is just fine with me; I want my state and religion strictly separate.)

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You're making the same mistake that Amicus does with his lumping of all "liberals" together as one cohesive, like-minded force.

There are loads of Christian denominations that would have performed your marriage ceremony and welcomed you into their congregations if you wanted to come. And, in fact, you post that you did find such a church and that it didn't pin you down.

The decision to become an agnostic, then, which you take up in the very next paragraph, doesn't really stem from what "Christianity" has done to you. Sounds like you were looking for an excuse to reject. That's OK, but there's no blame to be put on the whole host of people claiming to be/seeking to be Christians.

As far as the United States being a "Christian" nation, the negation of this was brought home to me last night in cyber discussion with someone from Australia. I posted that my car was going in the shop today and he asked how that could be, since Good Friday was a holiday--one that, in Australia, apparently, extends through to Sunday, with stores closed. Well, guess what. Not in America. We're downplaying religious holidays here. Now does that move us toward or away from being a "Christian" nation. ("Away" is just fine with me; I want my state and religion strictly separate.)

You are right that I have lumped a lot of "Christians" into the pot, but to really tell the story I'm trying to relate would...well my fingers got tired. I have a daughter, she calls herself a "Christian" and for all I know she might be, except where it concerns her mother and me. She has no compassion for her mothers pain and suffering, which I will not go into here. Nor does she respect my beliefs or non-beliefs as it were.

Nor do any of her "Christian Friends".

The result is that I have three grandchildren who I will never see again as long as they live with their mother. All because I won't discuss my theological beliefs. Or listen to hers. So the impact of "Christianity" has been close to home for me and my focus isn't quite wide enough to take in the rest of the religions out there. As a matter of fact the beef I have is with those who declare themselves "Christians" to the world and aren't.

 

[sr71plt]

Nor do any of her "Christian Friends".

But here you are trying (again) to force all people calling themselves something into a box of disposability. It just ain't that simple--or fair, I might add.

 

[oggbashan]

This morning the local churches held a procession carrying a large cross.

The procession started at the (Roman) Catholic Church, passed the Baptist, Methodist and United Reformed Churches, before a service at the Church of England Parish Church attended by members of the congregations of almost all the Christian Churches in our town.

Only one Church wasn't present - an evangelical church that refused to attend because the Romans were part of the procession.

The mosque and synagogue sent some representatives as well.

Which was the "unchristian" group?

Og

 

[Liar]

Our President apologized to the EU because we're arrogant....then he forgot how to speak Austrian....oh...he bowed to the Saudi King...and yes...he is really, really, really, angry at North Korea....

No surprise he forgot how to speak Austrian. It doesn't exist. They speak German in Austria.

 

[oggbashan]

No surprise he forgot how to speak Austrian. It doesn't exist. They speak German in Austria.

But with a difference. They speak English in most of Canada but do US citizens recognise it as their English, eh?

Og

 

[Liar]

But with a difference. They speak English in most of Canada but do US citizens recognise it as their English, eh?

Hey, I don't recognize anyone who lives tree blocks away from me know how to speak proper Swedish. We do it right, it's everyone else who have a dialect.

Still, Obama is a foreigner. All he have to do is say "Ich bin ein Wiener", right?

 

[cloudy]

But with a difference. They speak English in most of Canada but do US citizens recognise it as their English, eh?

Og

Yes.

No surprise he forgot how to speak Austrian. It doesn't exist. They speak German in Austria.

I was thinking the same thing, but the rest of her post was just as senseless, so I just let it slide.

 

[sr71plt]

But with a difference. They speak English in most of Canada but do US citizens recognise it as their English, eh?

Og

Well, yes, Austrian German is as close to any other German as is, for instance, Bavarian German to Hamburg German.

Don't see how that relates to the point. There's no such language as Austrian--so Obama can hardly be blamed for not speaking it.

When JFK gave out with his "Ich bin ein Berliner," I'm sure everyone in Germany rolled their eyes in the mix of his regional pronunciation of "Ich" contrasted with his different regional pronunciation of "Berliner"--but being less the backbiters of many on this forum, they all got the message that he was trying to unite with them.

 

[sr71plt]

"Ich bin ein Wiener", right?

Wouldn't the Sore Losers Club here have a field day with that?

 

[BentSecrets]

He's right, America IS NOT a Christian nation. It's a legally implemented FACT that America's government is NOT Christian in nature and instead protects the rights of all INDIVIDUALS to choose to believe what they will.

That the majority identify themselves as Christians does not change this fact. Your claim that America was founded on Christian principles only illustrates your ignorance of the topic.

Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, was a *Deist*. James Madison, responsible for much of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, was a *Deist*. John Adams was a Christian and a Separationist who believed that government would corrupt the church.

Whatever else is true about America's founding principles, it is a fact that the Founding Fathers--some of whom were Christian, others were not--believed that government and religion should exist independently of one another.

 

[oggbashan]

JFK's statement - in German - was accepted as drawing a line and committing the US (and NATO) to the defence of Berlin.

However he said it, the impact was massive.

Og

PS. Churchill was much less effective with other languages. He startled the French people by insisting that he was an elder brother of the Holy Trinity. What he meant to say was that he was an elder brother of Trinity House and therefore had expertise in pilotage etc.

 

[Liar]

Wouldn't the Sore Losers Club here have a field day with that?

Well, they have proven quite capable of having a field day with pretty much nothing to go on. If they were served a solid gaffe like that, I think they would spontaneously splooge their screens.

 

[sr71plt]

Well, they have proven quite capable of having a field day with pretty much nothing to go on. If they were served a solid gaffe like that, I think they would spontaneously splooge their screens.

The delicious part is that it wouldn't be a gaffe in Austria--just in the minds of the Sore Losers Club members.

 

[CharleyH]

Love you

 

[cloudy]

Love you

Love you, too.

 

[CharleyH]

Back to the question ...