Stone circle found - 9K years older than Stonehenge

[cloudy]

I'm surprised I didn't hear about this any sooner, but this is fascinating:

from the article:

For the old Kurdish shepherd, it was just another burning hot day in the rolling plains of eastern Turkey. Following his flock over the arid hillsides, he passed the single mulberry tree, which the locals regarded as 'sacred'. The bells on his sheep tinkled in the stillness. Then he spotted something. Crouching down, he brushed away the dust, and exposed a strange, large, oblong stone.

The man looked left and right: there were similar stone rectangles, peeping from the sands. Calling his dog to heel, the shepherd resolved to inform someone of his finds when he got back to the village. Maybe the stones were important.

They certainly were important. The solitary Kurdish man, on that summer's day in 1994, had made the greatest archaeological discovery in 50 years. Others would say he'd made the greatest archaeological discovery ever: a site that has revolutionised the way we look at human history, the origin of religion - and perhaps even the truth behind the Garden of Eden.

It goes on to explain what is meant by the Eden reference. Very cool discovery.

Article here.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

You are right. It is totally fascinating. The only problem is I am at work and don't have time to read the entire thing (and probably shouldn't be reading the forums as it is ).

 

[Huckleman2000]

How amazing! And so strange that the site was deliberately buried.

I've always learned that it was the development of agriculture that led to enough leisure-time for the Arts to develop. This seems to say that there was a time when game and wild fruits were so plentiful that agriculture was a more toilsome life in comparison. And people built stone circles with their free time.

 

[Belegon]

There is always a learning curve in any new activity. The idea that there was a learning curve in agriculture and that the first few generations struggled at it is hardly new. Indeed, one theory is that agriculture was tried, and abandoned, many times before it "caught."

It is a fascinating discovery. I am not prepared to offer an opinion on the more far-reaching assumptions about history and religion the author is speculating about near the end.

 

[3113]

Love the artwork! Especially the one stone that has that stunning crayfish on it.

 

[jomar]

Interesting...thanks!

 

[amicus]

http://bhascience.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html

http://dailygrail.com/news/gobekli-tepe-fiction

Something about that article just didn't ring true to me. Since I have done a large amount of research for a novel that is also set approximately ten thousand years ago, to coincide with the eruption of Mt. Mazama in what is now southern Oregon, at about 7700 BC.

In the link you provided, the article seems to have an ecological and a religious motive and expresses the kind of amazement among the professional community that lead me to question the veracity of the piece and search deeper.

I was not able to find much of value after several different key word searches, but I certainly question the conclusions draw and the motivations behind them. I would like to have found a confirmation of the carbon 14 dating information.

The entire story seems just too 'pat' for me, as if it were fabricated.

Not meaning to challenge your findings for any other reason, but they are not consistent with all that I have read about the transition from hunter/gatherer to agriculural.

amicus...

 

[past_perfect]

http://bhascience.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html

http://dailygrail.com/news/gobekli-tepe-fiction

Something about that article just didn't ring true to me. Since I have done a large amount of research for a novel that is also set approximately ten thousand years ago, to coincide with the eruption of Mt. Mazama in what is now southern Oregon, at about 7700 BC.

In the link you provided, the article seems to have an ecological and a religious motive and expresses the kind of amazement among the professional community that lead me to question the veracity of the piece and search deeper.

I was not able to find much of value after several different key word searches, but I certainly question the conclusions draw and the motivations behind them. I would like to have found a confirmation of the carbon 14 dating information.

The entire story seems just too 'pat' for me, as if it were fabricated.

Not meaning to challenge your findings for any other reason, but they are not consistent with all that I have read about the transition from hunter/gatherer to agriculural.

amicus...

You find the carbon dating results here on wiki:

Göbekeli Tepe

There they don't make the Eden connection though. Considering all the definite Noah's Archs they found in Turkey, it doesn't really surprise me though.

 

[amicus]

You find the carbon dating results here on wiki:

Göbekeli Tepe

There they don't make the Eden connection though. Considering all the definite Noah's Archs they found in Turkey, it doesn't really surprise me though.[/QUOTE]


~~~

Thank you for the wiki reference. I followed a few of the other links at the bottom of the article.

I read the Jean Auel series of 'Earth's Children', and some of the descriptions reminded me of the 'gatherings', of her 'people', hunter/gatherer's who congregated, often from great distances, if I recall, once every seven years or so.

Rather than challenging the theories that sedentary living was a prerequisite to such construction, I take this as an expansion and an addition to the time period previously considered necessary for such monument building.

Thus apologies are due to the thread starter, my excuse would be that it challenged current theory and left doubt.

Amicus...

 

[kendo1]

From http://www.dainst.org/index_9631_en.html


On February 28th the Daily Mail published an article by Tom Cox, in which Prof. Dr. Klaus Schmidt, leader of the Göbekli Tepe excavations, is cited as follows: "Göbekli Tepe is a temple in Eden". On the basis of this, the author formulates several conclusions about the biblical paradise, Adam and Eve and other events connected to the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament. Several German- and Turkish-language newspapers and radio stations of german and turkish language have picked up on the contents of the article since its publication.
"Tom Cox" or "Tom Knox" is a pseudonym of the British journalist Sean Thomas, who used the article to get publicity for his thriller "Genesis Secret", which is due to appear in March in English and simultaneously in German. Since Sean Thomas is using a falsified version of an interview with Klaus Schmidt made in fall 2006, he presents a distortion of the scientific work of the German Archaeological Institute.
The German Archaeological Institute (DAI) distances itself from these statements and reserves the right to take legal action against further dissemination of the story in connection with the work of the DAI at Göbekli Tepe. Klaus Schmidt neither in an interview nor on any other occasion made the above mentioned statements.

 

[slyc_willie]

You find the carbon dating results here on wiki:

Göbekeli Tepe

There they don't make the Eden connection though. Considering all the definite Noah's Archs they found in Turkey, it doesn't really surprise me though.[/QUOTE]


~~~

Thank you for the wiki reference. I followed a few of the other links at the bottom of the article.

I read the Jean Auel series of 'Earth's Children', and some of the descriptions reminded me of the 'gatherings', of her 'people', hunter/gatherer's who congregated, often from great distances, if I recall, once every seven years or so.

Rather than challenging the theories that sedentary living was a prerequisite to such construction, I take this as an expansion and an addition to the time period previously considered necessary for such monument building.

Thus apologies are due to the thread starter, my excuse would be that it challenged current theory and left doubt.

Amicus...

I remember hearing something about the find years ago, but was unable to follow up on it at the time. Thanks, Cloudy, for refreshing me.

There has always been a war between orthodox archaeologists and those outside the mold. Discoveries are amde every year that challenge traditional views of human migration and settlement around the world. One of my favorite books concerning this is "The Settlement of the Americas," by Thomas Dillehay, Professor Emeritus at Vanderbilt. Archeaological evidence has been found there for more than a decade which supports the theory that humans had established a settlement in the southern tip of Peru as far back as 14,000 years ago. Clearly, that challenges some aspects of the long-believed Bering Strait hypothesis.

I think it can only be arrogance to assume anyone on this planet can ever know -- or conjecture enough to claim to deduce -- the full history of our existence. The theories put forth in the past few centuries are compelling, and most offer good evidence. But most are still only theories.

 

[amicus]

Point well taken, Slyc. I suppose it became a little personal to me as I strive for accuracy in depicting how my 'people', lived, 10,000 years ago and of course, it is all based on contemporary 'theories'.

amicus...

 

[slyc_willie]

Point well taken, Slyc. I suppose it became a little personal to me as I strive for accuracy in depicting how my 'people', lived, 10,000 years ago and of course, it is all based on contemporary 'theories'.

amicus...

The good thing about that, though, is that until theories truly become fact, you still have a lot of grey area to work in.

 

[amicus]

Yes, indeed...)) as I am challenging one such theory that all equines in North America were extinct during my time period. I be gonna find a small herd of horsies that survived, where is Shanglan when you really need him?

ami

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

The Smithsonian sez the site was examined in the 60s and dismissed as a medaevil cemetery. It looks like a cemetery. It certainly wasnt disturbed by looters as were most of the Egyptian relicts. My guess is its of recent origin, to explain the lack of molestation.

On another site theyre saying the Giza pyramids are made of synthetic limestone mixed and poured in place. Interesting.

 

[slyc_willie]

Yes, indeed...)) as I am challenging one such theory that all equines in North America were extinct during my time period. I be gonna find a small herd of horsies that survived, where is Shanglan when you really need him?

ami

If you're going with 10,000 years ago, you might have some ground to using living horses. The popular consensus is that they became extinct in North America about that time, so you're in the right neighborhood, epoch-speaking.

ETA: Of course, the real issue is how your book would treat horses: as bearer/pack/work animals, or food animals? Most likely, at the time, horses were hunted for food, and not widely domesticated.

 

[cloudy]

I didn't take the reference to "Eden" the way it seems some of you have. The way I read the article, it wasn't speaking of the biblical Eden, but almost as an analogy - that area wasn't always so hot and dry, but was very fertile and humid. I suppose that's why I read it the way I did.

 

[damppanties]

I didn't take the reference to "Eden" the way it seems some of you have. The way I read the article, it wasn't speaking of the biblical Eden, but almost as an analogy - that area wasn't always so hot and dry, but was very fertile and humid. I suppose that's why I read it the way I did.

Well, the article does talk of the tale of Eden as a folktale and then says it was located exactly where the Bible says it is.... I just found the whole thing fascinating from the point of view of language and tales being passed down verbally, etc.

 

[slyc_willie]

I didn't take the reference to "Eden" the way it seems some of you have. The way I read the article, it wasn't speaking of the biblical Eden, but almost as an analogy - that area wasn't always so hot and dry, but was very fertile and humid. I suppose that's why I read it the way I did.

The "Eden" references were, the way I took it, anecdotal. As you said, the area was very lush for a very long time.

I've always thought that Katal Hayuk and other supposedly "first" human settlements weren't actually the first. There are indications of older habitations in coastal India and elsewhere between ancient Mesopotamia and the East.

As you said, a fascinating find.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CLOUDY

Yeh. Its generally understood that Iraq was very different back then, and the old days gave rise to the Eden analogy. The Jews are from Iraq.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SLICK

You diss theories like someone pulled a theory from their ass. 99% of the shit that keeps this planet spinning is theory. What a dumshit.

 

[slyc_willie]

What a dumshit.

That would be "dumbshit," dumbshit.

 

[R. Richard]

One thing I would like to point out about climate is that it can change. In the time of the Roman Empire, the Mediterranean coast of North Africa was, historically, a granery for the Roman Empire. Now it's mostly barren desert/semi-desert.

 

[cantdog]

All the same, this is the kind of thing we can't do in the new world. Plow a field and watch the plowshare turn up the Ardagh Chalice. Stand in a field and suddenly see the buried circle of menhirs.

I have, myself, found stone arrowheads by the river, but a stone circle is not the same league.

 

[Dragonlipz]

One of my interns is an ethnic Kurd from Turkey

whose family originated in the province where the stones were discovered. She says she may be related to the fellow who found the stones but her family left the area years ago to pursue 'an educated lifestyle' - she's a materials engineer at Boeing - so I'll ask her for some particulars, right now we're drafting a report so she's quite busy.........ciao