the marks of a slave

[ultramarineblue]

Does it drive them crazy like it does me?

 

[Homburg]

That is a significant portion of the reasons for why I do it.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I figured as much. Since it drives me so crazy, I'm in trouble. I like to plan ahead and then procrastinate about it (actually this really important idea-mulling over time. Ya know?). Even when I'm driving he won't tell me that I'm going to make a turn until right before. I like to know far enough in advance to determine if I can pass a car or not which pretty much isn't happening with him.

 

[eastern sun]

I figured as much. Since it drives me so crazy, I'm in trouble. I like to plan ahead and then procrastinate about it (actually this really important idea-mulling over time. Ya know?). Even when I'm driving he won't tell me that I'm going to make a turn until right before. I like to know far enough in advance to determine if I can pass a car or not which pretty much isn't happening with him.

What if you let go of the idea of passing that other car (i.e. planning ahead) and just drove without knowing where you're going?

**********************************************

I am an aggressive driver. I used to pride myself on my ability to weave through the cabs on the city streets. I'd see the traffic as a moving mathematical pattern and move through "the holes" left by the other cars, space that was constantly shifting, shrinking and expanding, due to the velocity of the other vehicles. I loved it.

Like your friend, though, my husband never let me know ahead of time when to turn. I'd frequently be in the "open space" over in the left lane, as he said "take the next right." The adrenalin rush I'd get swerving across the traffic to make that turn was thrilling. But more than a few times I had to go around the block because the traffic just didn't let me make that turn.

When we were young, I thought he should change the way he gave directions.

There's a number of factors that ultimately changed the way I drive. The baby in the backseat. My own growing sense of mortality. But the single most significant change arose from the willingness to let go of the need to be in control.

Though, I admit, I still drive aggressively when I'm alone and I'm late to pick up my children, on the whole I drive slower now, with more awareness of how my actions as a driver affect other people. (It astonished me the first time I noticed how frightened other drivers were when I cut in front of them. I knew what I was doing. I knew it would work. But all they saw was a mini-van hurtling in their direction.)

I'm able to see the world more clearly. The changes in the sky. I notice the expressions on the other drivers' faces. I see into the lives of the people on the sidewalks.

And I never miss a turn he points out at the last moment.

 

[eastern sun]

Exactly... I would say fear of loss goes hand in hand with fear of rejection Rejection is a very difficult thing to deal with. Being accepted is a basic need in all humans and most animals too. We spend a great amount of time and energy learning how to be acceptable to our society as a whole and to other people. In the beginning...and even now in the animal kingdom, being rejected by the group meant you might lose your chance at reproducing. It meant being left behind without protection, facing starvation and loss of your life. It's no wonder fear of loss and rejection is something we fear the most.

Fear of loss does not just mean fear of losing the person you have committed to and the relationship. It also includes fear of losing your self- esteem, fear of losing trust in your own decisions, fear of losing control....

I'm of the opinion these days that we need to override a few of these old fear-based instincts.

I want to be unafraid to say "I love you" or even just "hi" with an open heart. Without knowing what will happen.

I had a wonderful online guru who taught me the tremendous freedom that comes from being able to openly express your love, your desire, your vision of heaven, without expectations of even a response.

Think about it. If we don't express our interest because we fear rejection, we've simply wrested control away from the other person. Rejecting ourselves before anyone else can.

What if we are true to our desires, express them openly, and then allow the other the freedom to do what they want?

 

[eastern sun]

I know this wasn't directed at me but it caused a pretty strong reaction in me. The part about the teenager running into the building - that would be easy. It's when it becomes something about saving myself that it becomes difficult and maybe impossible feeling. I will get a few things going right and then before I know it I've found another way to be self-destructive. Right now that is manifesting itself in one of the two areas I've found the biggest success in lately. The other area, let's just say this morning it's taking everything I have to not run like hell. I do at least know the feeling of running will pass if I just allow it.

I don't find it hard to admit my weaknesses. It could also be that I just haven't faced the underlying weakness. I don't know if that's it though. I do tend to relish finding areas where I'm weak, ways to prove I don't deserve it whatever it is at the time. I just don't know what to do to change the weaknesses. I'm so tired of fighting the same old thing. I wish I could hide away for a few days but I can't.

Fear of success and fear of failure - at opposite ends of the spectrum. They sure can really fuck you up.

I think exercise is the only way to deal with weakness.

Try imagining that underneath all that weakness is the potential for immeasurable strength. And then take a small action to either do something or refrain from doing something, as dictated by the circumstances you're in. Over time, these little actions make a huge difference.

And if you don't believe you have the potential for strength, take a look at the wisdom of the ages. Strengthen your faith. The quality of your faith will provide a foundation for everything else you hope to build.

 

[eastern sun]

PAn awful lot of people are turned on by the idea of giving up control, and feel a burning need to do so. Yet when they get that exact situation right up in their face, the enormity of it is terrifying. The emotional nudity is beyond belief, the scrubbed-raw defenseless feeling is something that shakes you to the core. You feel as if your ass is hanging in mid-air, and the wind is tearing at your soul.

You describe this so vividly. And yet you stand on the other side of the equation.

I'd be curious how you'd describe your own position, from the fear perspective.

 

[rida]

I'm of the opinion these days that we need to override a few of these old fear-based instincts.

I want to be unafraid to say "I love you" or even just "hi" with an open heart. Without knowing what will happen.

I had a wonderful online guru who taught me the tremendous freedom that comes from being able to openly express your love, your desire, your vision of heaven, without expectations of even a response.

Think about it. If we don't express our interest because we fear rejection, we've simply wrested control away from the other person. Rejecting ourselves before anyone else can.

What if we are true to our desires, express them openly, and then allow the other the freedom to do what they want?

I've been praising myself for being able to do so.

Yet I've been forced to realize that I was just feeling good for something I had not really had to do in a long time. And part of the reason why I felt so good about having mastered it, it was because I had been cheating; doing the self-censoring, calculated vulnerability.

It is easy to claim not to fear rejection when you (me) are keeping yourself at arm length.

 

[eastern sun]

Everything has gotten so intense, so fast. Is this how it normally is? Or is it because in spite of my sexual proclivities, I have no idea how to *not* be in control?

I practically flipped last night. I spent the evening watching one of my favorite movies with Master and Mistress. Then, we went to play for awhile before bed. It was intense (I keep using that word) and very emotional for me. I cried after it was over, which, by the way, is something I never do and begged them to keep me forever.

Mistress started feeling sick to her stomach, so after Master and I got her a little more comfortable, I went to bed. She wasn't the only one who felt sick. I did, too, but it was a different kind.

You see, my initial reaction to anything that gets too deep for me to handle is to run. My whole life has been full of superficial relationships because I'm apparently the epitome of the commitment-phobe. I have a friend who tells me I'm afraid to be happy. Who knows? Maybe he's right.

I was within a hair's breadth of packing all my things quietly while they slept, whispering goodbye at the door of their bedroom, leaving a note that said, "I'm sorry," and disappearing silently into the night. But that same friend who accuses me of being afraid of being happy texted me back and forth into the wee hours of the morning, begging me not to do it. The absolute only thing that kept me there was that he basically texted me until I was too sleepy to drive back home. I'm sure that was his intention.

I finally passed out, but I didn't sleep well last night. I woke up this morning and just stared at the ceiling. When Master came to get me out of bed as he does every morning before Mistress goes to work, he knew something was wrong. Mistress had to leave shortly thereafter, but Master put me in their bed, crawled in with me, and forced me to talk.

To try to keep this already long post from becoming even longer, I'll spare the details of the conversation. It was a long talk about my fear of needing this so much.

But what stood out--and was my whole reason for putting this little anecdote in this thread in the first place--was something he said at the end of the discussion.

"You know, it wouldn't matter if you ran away because you were afraid. We'd come to [town I live in] and kidnap you and bring you back here and keep you bound here with us until you came to your senses."

All I could think was, "They love me that much."

There is an interesting quality to fear that I've experienced.

I've been in situations where I felt physically threatened. And my senses become hyperalert. Time slows down. Space expands and takes on a living quality.

If I'm with a stranger, my gut says "run." And my voice turns really honey-smooth, and my words are chosen carefully, and I try to give the stranger as much as I feel comfortable giving and end the interaction.

If I'm with my husband, my gut says "run," but I don't, and I have a very interesting experience.

On the other hand, when I've been in situations where I felt emotionally threatened, my initial response is often total confusion. My senses are foggy. I'm completely distracted from the outward circumstances by my internal turmoil. I build this smoky fog between me and the world I'm afraid of, while my heart pounds and my skin tingles. And I feel like I'm going to scream. (And I might.)

If I sit still, during those times, and breathe deeply, and just focus on the physical sensation of the emotion, I can feel some kind of something sizzling in my chest and it burns until it's gone. And often, something that terrified me for years (like my feelings of jealousy about my husband's interest in other women) doesn't have the strength it had before.

I think it's possible to burn up those fears, but only by feeling them.

******************************************

BiBunny, that all may have nothing to do with your experience.

I think it's normal to be scared.

 

[eastern sun]

He thinks that sizzling feeling is akin to the feeling of infatuation.

 

[Homburg]

I am an aggressive driver.

In my line of work, I look at the end results of aggressive driving on a regular basis, and I write the estimates to repair those results. I am not, oddly enough, a cautious driver, but I am nowhere near as aggressive as I used to be as a younger man. I understand the limits of my car, and limits of my ability, and while I may occasionally skirt close to those limits, I make a point of not exceeding them.

I do not wish to be in the position of the people whom it is my job to assist ex post facto.

--

Think about it. If we don't express our interest because we fear rejection, we've simply wrested control away from the other person. Rejecting ourselves before anyone else can.

Interesting concept. Very much so. This deserves more thought.

 

[Homburg]

You describe this so vividly. And yet you stand on the other side of the equation.

I'd be curious how you'd describe your own position, from the fear perspective.

No one in this world knows me a tenth as well as viv and MIS. No one in this world knows more of my secrets, more of my weaknesses, more of my dreams and hopes and fears than those two. While they may have surrendered every conceivable power to me, they are so deep into my confidence as to obviate all but the sole defense of love. The knowledge they bear is deep and profound and capable of causing great harm to my emotional welfare.

While I may stand over my girls, I am naked and raw as well, for they see me as no other being is allowed to. See, it doesn't matter whether you are on the top or the bottom. The sort of deep intimacy inherent to the style of relationship I practice (and many others around here), leaves you emotionally naked and exposed.

I think this is why many tops work so hard to maintain distance from their pyl's. They are afraid. They fear the power that the pyl has over them due to intimacy, should said pyl choose to use it, as well as being too insecure to deal with their own vulnerabilities in relationship.

I don't work that way. For me, the intimacy is necessary. The exposure is necessary. And that means the fear is there too. Dominant or no, I'm just as human as that lovely sweet woman whose ass I beat red. I take as great a chance as she does, and my gamble may result in as much loss as hers.

The single most unrealistic and unhealthy fantasy that so many people cling to is that dominants are somehow more than human.

The other side of that description is that I may be on this side of the fence, but I spend a lot of time looking over it onto the other side. I know myself. I know me. And I accept me, warts and all. I know my flaws, foibles, and inconsistencies, and I'm grudgingly okay with them. And I portray myself honestly and openly to the people I deal with. This means that I don't have to spend a lot of mental energy watching myself, watching what I say, watching what I do. I act amazingly like, well, me. In other words, no act. So I can spend more time paying attention to the people around me, and less having to pay attention to me.

I really think this is the root of my human perception. I don't let my ow arse get in the way of watching you, thus I can see more of you.

 

[Netzach]

No one in this world knows me a tenth as well as viv and MIS. No one in this world knows more of my secrets, more of my weaknesses, more of my dreams and hopes and fears than those two. While they may have surrendered every conceivable power to me, they are so deep into my confidence as to obviate all but the sole defense of love. The knowledge they bear is deep and profound and capable of causing great harm to my emotional welfare.

While I may stand over my girls, I am naked and raw as well, for they see me as no other being is allowed to. See, it doesn't matter whether you are on the top or the bottom. The sort of deep intimacy inherent to the style of relationship I practice (and many others around here), leaves you emotionally naked and exposed.

I think this is why many tops work so hard to maintain distance from their pyl's. They are afraid. They fear the power that the pyl has over them due to intimacy, should said pyl choose to use it, as well as being too insecure to deal with their own vulnerabilities in relationship.

I don't work that way. For me, the intimacy is necessary. The exposure is necessary. And that means the fear is there too. Dominant or no, I'm just as human as that lovely sweet woman whose ass I beat red. I take as great a chance as she does, and my gamble may result in as much loss as hers.

The single most unrealistic and unhealthy fantasy that so many people cling to is that dominants are somehow more than human.

The other side of that description is that I may be on this side of the fence, but I spend a lot of time looking over it onto the other side. I know myself. I know me. And I accept me, warts and all. I know my flaws, foibles, and inconsistencies, and I'm grudgingly okay with them. And I portray myself honestly and openly to the people I deal with. This means that I don't have to spend a lot of mental energy watching myself, watching what I say, watching what I do. I act amazingly like, well, me. In other words, no act. So I can spend more time paying attention to the people around me, and less having to pay attention to me.

I really think this is the root of my human perception. I don't let my ow arse get in the way of watching you, thus I can see more of you.

It's 20,000 times harder for me to deal with what I'd like to do to the people I love than what I might want T to do to me/let him do to me etc. I'm much more uncomfortable with my desires on the top than the bottom, as much as I may front this perfect comfort with being sadistic. Maybe it's more "that's the real me" and it's totally unguarded.

It's also totally weird and visceral and stripped - more than anything I've got. That's my real weakness.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

On a fairly unrelated note.

Sometimes I worry about the power I have ceded, as though every act of obedience and service is a step further from the point of no return. I wonder if I will wake up one morning and discover that I resent my slavery, resent always coming second and taking on the lion's share of life's mundanities. I even ask myself why I am happy. How can I be so content in serving a man, a man who is as flawed as every other man? What is wrong with me that I find slavery fulfilling?

Now, parallel to all this in my head, I know that my decision to submit is my own damn business and not the concern of friends who see me put him before me again and again. I know that I cannot thrive or gain fulfilment in a vanilla relationship because I've tried it more than once. It's like some kind of emotional auto-masochism that I sometimes feel like I have less self respect because of the ways I allow myself to be treated.

Now that I have been a slave for some time, I feel a little out of touch with my female friends. They gossip and bitch about their partners, have rows with them, commiserate with each other about how selfish and petty men are, how it's like having an extra child, yadda yadda yadda. I tend to go quiet during these conversations but sometimes they'll try and pull me into the debate, encourage me to bitch about my Master and join the 'all men are bastards' club. It goes beyond affectionate banter with most women I know too. It's heartfelt and venomous.

It's like, the further I move away from how most people live, the less I have in common with other people. It makes me feel even more abnormal and sometimes it makes me question myself, doubt myself. This is looking to be one of those weeks.

 

[intothewoods]

Sometimes I worry about the power I have ceded, as though every act of obedience and service is a step further from the point of no return. I wonder if I will wake up one morning and discover that I resent my slavery, resent always coming second and taking on the lion's share of life's mundanities. I even ask myself why I am happy. How can I be so content in serving a man, a man who is as flawed as every other man? What is wrong with me that I find slavery fulfilling?

Now, parallel to all this in my head, I know that my decision to submit is my own damn business and not the concern of friends who see me put him before me again and again. I know that I cannot thrive or gain fulfilment in a vanilla relationship because I've tried it more than once. It's like some kind of emotional auto-masochism that I sometimes feel like I have less self respect because of the ways I allow myself to be treated.

Now that I have been a slave for some time, I feel a little out of touch with my female friends. They gossip and bitch about their partners, have rows with them, commiserate with each other about how selfish and petty men are, how it's like having an extra child, yadda yadda yadda. I tend to go quiet during these conversations but sometimes they'll try and pull me into the debate, encourage me to bitch about my Master and join the 'all men are bastards' club. It goes beyond affectionate banter with most women I know too. It's heartfelt and venomous.

It's like, the further I move away from how most people live, the less I have in common with other people. It makes me feel even more abnormal and sometimes it makes me question myself, doubt myself. This is looking to be one of those weeks.

You might want to consider building your circle of friends. I really rely on the ones who are closes to me now, and while we all talk about our partners, we're all committed to them. And the majority of the women in my little group are vanilla.

 

[Homburg]

It's 20,000 times harder for me to deal with what I'd like to do to the people I love than what I might want T to do to me/let him do to me etc. I'm much more uncomfortable with my desires on the top than the bottom, as much as I may front this perfect comfort with being sadistic. Maybe it's more "that's the real me" and it's totally unguarded.

It's also totally weird and visceral and stripped - more than anything I've got. That's my real weakness.

Well, I don't have the bottom to compare it to, but I'm with you on "real me", and being uncomfortable with it. Yeah, the spankings and the like, whatever. It's when I realise that I am really am hurting her, and she really isn't liking it, and I really am. That is the part that makes me feel exposed.

--

It's like, the further I move away from how most people live, the less I have in common with other people. It makes me feel even more abnormal and sometimes it makes me question myself, doubt myself. This is looking to be one of those weeks.

Or maybe it is just that the more perspective you get, the more you realise that your friends are shallow. And I'm not saying that to be mean. You have reset your priorities, and thus your outlook. You are forced to look beyond petty mememememe all the time. Not saying this is somehow better, but it is what you've done.

And so what if it is abnormal? Do you want to be venomous like that? I don't. My vanilla friends bitch and moan about their wives and/or girlfriends. I'm happy with mine.

At the end of the day, so what if I'm abnormal? I'm not harming anyone with how I live, and I am happy and content. To me, that is worth not fitting in.

 

[Netzach]

Now that I have been a slave for some time, I feel a little out of touch with my female friends. They gossip and bitch about their partners, have rows with them, commiserate with each other about how selfish and petty men are, how it's like having an extra child, yadda yadda yadda. I tend to go quiet during these conversations but sometimes they'll try and pull me into the debate, encourage me to bitch about my Master and join the 'all men are bastards' club. It goes beyond affectionate banter with most women I know too. It's heartfelt and venomous.

This is what most women substitute for the backbone to communicate with another person, man woman or child.

 

[myinnerslut]

Now that I have been a slave for some time, I feel a little out of touch with my female friends. They gossip and bitch about their partners, have rows with them, commiserate with each other about how selfish and petty men are, how it's like having an extra child, yadda yadda yadda. I tend to go quiet during these conversations but sometimes they'll try and pull me into the debate, encourage me to bitch about my Master and join the 'all men are bastards' club. It goes beyond affectionate banter with most women I know too. It's heartfelt and venomous.

It's like, the further I move away from how most people live, the less I have in common with other people. It makes me feel even more abnormal and sometimes it makes me question myself, doubt myself. This is looking to be one of those weeks.

i cheat. the only one i talk to about Master is viv. we tend to have pretty similar views on things and neither will push the other into an uncomfortable area in that respect.

 

[kittenartist]

I'm of the opinion these days that we need to override a few of these old fear-based instincts.

I want to be unafraid to say "I love you" or even just "hi" with an open heart. Without knowing what will happen.

I had a wonderful online guru who taught me the tremendous freedom that comes from being able to openly express your love, your desire, your vision of heaven, without expectations of even a response.

Think about it. If we don't express our interest because we fear rejection, we've simply wrested control away from the other person. Rejecting ourselves before anyone else can.

What if we are true to our desires, express them openly, and then allow the other the freedom to do what they want?

I have been thinking about this post a lot. Putting myself out there without expecting anything back is a big part of who I am. Comes fairly naturally.

But I was wondering about the reverse. About hearing the "I love you" without feeling the need to respond. That obligation to return the love... or dreams, desires, etc. To accept the offering for what it is and not as a demand for reciprocation.

I think tendency to give back the love, dreams, magic that is life is what gets me in trouble. Maybe sometimes that "I love you" is just all that it is, all that it needs to me...

I am rambling.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Sometimes I worry about the power I have ceded, as though every act of obedience and service is a step further from the point of no return. I wonder if I will wake up one morning and discover that I resent my slavery, resent always coming second and taking on the lion's share of life's mundanities. I even ask myself why I am happy. How can I be so content in serving a man, a man who is as flawed as every other man? What is wrong with me that I find slavery fulfilling?

Now, parallel to all this in my head, I know that my decision to submit is my own damn business and not the concern of friends who see me put him before me again and again. I know that I cannot thrive or gain fulfilment in a vanilla relationship because I've tried it more than once. It's like some kind of emotional auto-masochism that I sometimes feel like I have less self respect because of the ways I allow myself to be treated.

Now that I have been a slave for some time, I feel a little out of touch with my female friends. They gossip and bitch about their partners, have rows with them, commiserate with each other about how selfish and petty men are, how it's like having an extra child, yadda yadda yadda. I tend to go quiet during these conversations but sometimes they'll try and pull me into the debate, encourage me to bitch about my Master and join the 'all men are bastards' club. It goes beyond affectionate banter with most women I know too. It's heartfelt and venomous.

It's like, the further I move away from how most people live, the less I have in common with other people. It makes me feel even more abnormal and sometimes it makes me question myself, doubt myself. This is looking to be one of those weeks.

I think it is the rare person who does not have a moment of resentment or tension over living this role, it is natural unless you possess the zombie gene...and that most likely would make you highly desirable to him as a slave. What you do with those feelings, how you cope, and how he reacts are what count. I know what you are saying, and have had similar moments myself over the years, and still do at times when I am at a low, but one thing to look at when you question your self respect is where is that judgment coming from. Is it trying to live this role within a largely mainstream society (and friends/family), is is a hang over of those messages we are fed while growing up about what love should be - how it should look, is it how you really see yourself, or is it more about how you feel others see you? Once you can answer these questions, you have a good jumping off point to introducing inner dialogue which can help you combat these feelings within reason, and live the way you have chosen without feeling the need to still fit in with others.

The bitching and comments thing is something I experience from others from time to time when they are talking about their own state of being and relationships, and it is also something I can now just ignore politely while being supportive of how they feel based on the realisation it is their life, they are their feelings and may very well be real and justified from the perspective they live, but I do not have to then transfer that to my/our life. It isn't always easy, but just as I don't want to be judged by them based on their reality, I don't want to do the same to them. It takes all types to make up this world. learning to co-exist respectfully is a step in living peacefully and at peace. And yes, even F admits, at times he is a bastard, but that is life.

Catalina

 

[ZRT]

I don't appreciate it when anybody goes on lengthy bitch sessions about their partners. I can understand the occasional bit of frustration, but people on either side of a relationship who incessantly bring their issues out for their friends aren't being respectful to their relationship, in my opinion. When I'm with a woman, I will absolutely not go griping to my friends about the old ball and chain, because if I have an issue with her, I'll be straightforward about it with her. It's nobody else's business, and what they're going to hear from me is how I value and respect the woman I'm with. I wouldn't be with a woman if I didn't have that respect for her, and I'm not going to run her down behind her back.

For me it's not a BDSM thing at all, it's simply taking care of the people you're with. I treat my friends the same way, and relationships for me are built on friendship.

 

[eastern sun]

No one in this world knows me a tenth as well as viv and MIS. No one in this world knows more of my secrets, more of my weaknesses, more of my dreams and hopes and fears than those two. While they may have surrendered every conceivable power to me, they are so deep into my confidence as to obviate all but the sole defense of love. The knowledge they bear is deep and profound and capable of causing great harm to my emotional welfare.

While I may stand over my girls, I am naked and raw as well, for they see me as no other being is allowed to. See, it doesn't matter whether you are on the top or the bottom. The sort of deep intimacy inherent to the style of relationship I practice (and many others around here), leaves you emotionally naked and exposed.

I think this is why many tops work so hard to maintain distance from their pyl's. They are afraid. They fear the power that the pyl has over them due to intimacy, should said pyl choose to use it, as well as being too insecure to deal with their own vulnerabilities in relationship.

I don't work that way. For me, the intimacy is necessary. The exposure is necessary. And that means the fear is there too. Dominant or no, I'm just as human as that lovely sweet woman whose ass I beat red. I take as great a chance as she does, and my gamble may result in as much loss as hers.

The single most unrealistic and unhealthy fantasy that so many people cling to is that dominants are somehow more than human.

The other side of that description is that I may be on this side of the fence, but I spend a lot of time looking over it onto the other side. I know myself. I know me. And I accept me, warts and all. I know my flaws, foibles, and inconsistencies, and I'm grudgingly okay with them. And I portray myself honestly and openly to the people I deal with. This means that I don't have to spend a lot of mental energy watching myself, watching what I say, watching what I do. I act amazingly like, well, me. In other words, no act. So I can spend more time paying attention to the people around me, and less having to pay attention to me.

I really think this is the root of my human perception. I don't let my ow arse get in the way of watching you, thus I can see more of you.

Thank you, Homburg.

It's interesting that you too see yourself benefiting from "getting out of the way" in order to be available to the other.

Maybe that's the key to the intimacy you're describing. We think that being deeply intimate with someone is revealing something hidden in ourselves, and become frightened. What if it really hinges on letting go of ourselves to the point where we can actually come in contact with the "other."

Then we can just be naked together.

 

[eastern sun]

It's 20,000 times harder for me to deal with what I'd like to do to the people I love than what I might want T to do to me/let him do to me etc. I'm much more uncomfortable with my desires on the top than the bottom, as much as I may front this perfect comfort with being sadistic. Maybe it's more "that's the real me" and it's totally unguarded.

It's also totally weird and visceral and stripped - more than anything I've got. That's my real weakness.

It's interesting that people usually assume that being "mean" is a more guarded state than being "nice." It ain't necessarily so.

(I'm kind of curious about what you mean by "totally weird and visceral and stripped - more than anything I've got." And why it's a weakness.)

 

[Homburg]

Thank you, Homburg.

It's interesting that you too see yourself benefiting from "getting out of the way" in order to be available to the other.

Maybe that's the key to the intimacy you're describing. We think that being deeply intimate with someone is revealing something hidden in ourselves, and become frightened. What if it really hinges on letting go of ourselves to the point where we can actually come in contact with the "other."

Then we can just be naked together.

Could be. I know that I tend to do things that require a lot of emotional honesty from my girls. I make them speak to me, admit the things they want. It is hot doing the things I do, but infinitely hotter when she admits that she needs me to do those things to her. I crave that raw openness.

So part of my own openness is a tool, an example. This is how I expect you to be. Be present, be here, be honest. With me and yourself. I really do expect to own everything about my property, and if that doesn't scare her, she really isn't thinking it through.

 

[eastern sun]

Sometimes I worry about the power I have ceded, as though every act of obedience and service is a step further from the point of no return. I wonder if I will wake up one morning and discover that I resent my slavery, resent always coming second and taking on the lion's share of life's mundanities. I even ask myself why I am happy. How can I be so content in serving a man, a man who is as flawed as every other man? What is wrong with me that I find slavery fulfilling?

Now, parallel to all this in my head, I know that my decision to submit is my own damn business and not the concern of friends who see me put him before me again and again. I know that I cannot thrive or gain fulfilment in a vanilla relationship because I've tried it more than once. It's like some kind of emotional auto-masochism that I sometimes feel like I have less self respect because of the ways I allow myself to be treated.

Now that I have been a slave for some time, I feel a little out of touch with my female friends. They gossip and bitch about their partners, have rows with them, commiserate with each other about how selfish and petty men are, how it's like having an extra child, yadda yadda yadda. I tend to go quiet during these conversations but sometimes they'll try and pull me into the debate, encourage me to bitch about my Master and join the 'all men are bastards' club. It goes beyond affectionate banter with most women I know too. It's heartfelt and venomous.

It's like, the further I move away from how most people live, the less I have in common with other people. It makes me feel even more abnormal and sometimes it makes me question myself, doubt myself. This is looking to be one of those weeks.

I agree with Catalina, Velvet. I think feelings of resentment and doubt are natural and not uncommon in this type of relationship. I also agree that what you do with these feelings, and the ways you discover to hold onto your self-respect, are very important.

Personally, I like the feeling that I'm living creatively outside the box. And I also like the feeling that I'm living skillfully within the box.

Because I'm older, I've learned that very, very few people are normal. Most people have all kinds of secret identities. And many are living them only in their own minds. In some ways, you are incredibly lucky to have the opportunity to try and live a fantasy.

Problem, though, is it's not a fantasy. It can really, really suck. But so do other people's lives. People experience chronic pain with no pleasure at all. People feel (and sometimes are) victimized by their family, their culture, their genetic heritage.

I think your feelings are a natural byproduct of life. Everyone is plagued with doubt and fear. It is good sometimes to express your doubts in order to examine them, and test their validity.

The hardest thing for me is finding people I can talk to about my feelings. I feel like I have to talk in code with my friends, even the ones who are aware of the relationship my husband and I have. There are a lot of people though who share similar internal experiences, even if the details are different. And I do have him. I've found it helpful to discuss some of my fears and doubts when they arise.

In many cases when I felt like I was about to cross a dangerous and potentially damaging line, when I was lost in feelings of inadequacy and low self-esteem, he was very helpful in reframing the experience into something less frightening and/or humiliating. Sometimes he just made me feel better by loving me for being willing to be afraid.

Other times, when he was cold or insensitive or angry or mean, I had to find it in myself. It's there when I look for it. And I think we all have it. It's possible to love yourself, even if no one else is at the moment. And not in that egotistical pumped up way. In a courageous, comforting way that recognizes that human beings around the world are miserable just like you. And it may not be as bad as it seems if you can just look at it from a different perspective.

I feel more alone now than I ever felt before I was a slave. But I also feel like I'm walking in the world from a place of greater honesty, and therefore have the chance to really get to know people in ways I have finally come to know myself - deeply and with great curiosity and with an understanding that there is no one who is without fear and doubt about the paths they have chosen at one time or another.

And maybe it's just enough to know that at least two other slaves out here have felt the way you do.

(That's the original impulse behind that women-talk, you know.)


P.S. After my children were born, I hung out in a couple of mom's groups where spouse-bashing was the house rule. We were all overwhelmed by the demands of motherhood and frustrated by the lack of help from our husbands. Every woman there felt like the relationship was one-sided. But I can tell you that twelve years later, many of those marriages have dissolved. I think the problem with that kind of negative gossip is that we start out venting, but then end up blaming in order to excuse ourselves from the need to take action. Over a period of years, if we practice that kind of negative thinking, reinforcing it in ourselves and in each other, we are going to create a habit of dissatisfaction and resentment.