This is why the Government should be providing health insurance

[Le Jacquelope]

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=12310680&ch=4226723&src=news

A Valley woman thought she was covered by health insurance, but when she had a baby, she found out she wasn't.

It turns out the employer was going bankrupt and it did not inform the employees.

The reporter implied it was up to HER to own up to her employer's fraudulent behavior and negotiate her payments down by 50%. The employer should be imprisoned for this, and this is why private health insurance as a primary payer is a concept shunned by the rest of the civilized world.

 

[dolf]

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=12310680&ch=4226723&src=news

A Valley woman thought she was covered by health insurance, but when she had a baby, she found out she wasn't.

It turns out the employer was going bankrupt and it did not inform the employees.

The reporter implied it was up to HER to own up to her employer's fraudulent behavior and negotiate her payments down by 50%. The employer should be imprisoned for this, and this is why private health insurance as a primary payer is a concept shunned by the rest of the civilized world.

i my imperfect nhs

 

[The_Trouvere]

Health Care Systems in Ten Developed Countries: The U.S. System Is Most Unpopular

"Several recent surveys by Harris Interactive®, including the latest Financial Times/Harris Poll, asked an identical question of cross-sections of adults in ten developed countries about their own health care systems. This research finds that the United States has the most unpopular system:

"Fully 33 percent of Americans believe that the American system "has so much wrong with it that we need to completely rebuild it", and a further 50 percent think that "fundamental changes are needed to make it work better"
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=927

 

[ubertroll]

Fundamentally, private industry is the best means of distributing goods, services, and currency exchanges in mutual relationships. When two parties each possess something the other desires, competition both between vendors and consumers is the surest way to make sure things are valued fairly and distributed reliably.

However, insurance is fundamentally a form of gambling. Unlike casinos, it is not gambling done for the purpose of entertainment, or, like banks and stock exchanges, of mutual profit. Rather, it is done to minimize loss for one party, and maximize profit for the other.

In gambling, the house, fundamentally, always wins. With a product that, like health insurance, the government has a vested interest in achieving 100%, without exception, universal coverage of all citizens, the 'house always winning' becomes a weightstone around the necks of every American--precisely the sort of situation where the Preamble's injunction to "promote the general welfare" becomes paramount.

In other words, HMOs are fucking vampires, on with the socialized medicine.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I'd like to know who this woman's employer is.

Let's look him up and show him some wild west justice.

 

[KellysCrack]

one should spend more time discussing the topic with those in nations where they have univeral health care and ask them how they like it. Do they like waiting 5 months for a MRI to find out that they have cancer or a week?? Given the current I would rather only wait a week.

Frankly something should be done about the company that pulled it and did not tell the employees. At the minimum they should be responsible for paying the remaining amount of her bill

 

[Le Jacquelope]

one should spend more time discussing the topic with those in nations where they have univeral health care and ask them how they like it. Do they like waiting 5 months for a MRI to find out that they have cancer or a week?? Given the current I would rather only wait a week.

There's no push by the citizens in those countries to make the system go away. Ever notice that? Ever wonder why?

Frankly something should be done about the company that pulled it and did not tell the employees. At the minimum they should be responsible for paying the remaining amount of her bill

They're going bankrupt. The employer should be put in prison for fraud - or, at least, forced to pay a pile in legal fees to defend themselves in a criminal case. Or maybe get railroaded by a public defender...

 

[KellysCrack]

There's no push by the citizens in those countries to make the system go away. Ever notice that? Ever wonder why?QUOTE]

When you grow up not knowing anything else exists then how do you know you can buck the system? If you have the money and you come to America to pay for the service out of pocket why would you complain? After all you can still get all of your other treatments free...well minor tax increases aside.

When someone says why sir you have lived a long time and at 65 you really do not need that knee replacement you can have a walker or chair as that is more economical how will that make you feel?

When the doctor is having to request permission on how to treat you from some official who has never been to medical school will that give you warm fuzzys?

These are the things that bother me, why should someone else be in charge of MY healthcare?

 

[ubertroll]

one should spend more time discussing the topic with those in nations where they have univeral health care and ask them how they like it. Do they like waiting 5 months for a MRI to find out that they have cancer or a week?? Given the current I would rather only wait a week.

Actually, the wait periods you're talking about are a function of American managed care, not national health care. Doctors need to refer to specialists whose signatures they need to convince insurance reps that the procedure is necessary, who need to authorize the claim [which is contrary to their self-interest, as these companies promote the reps who give out the LEAST in claims].

See the movie Sicko. Seriously.

Frankly something should be done about the company that pulled it and did not tell the employees. At the minimum they should be responsible for paying the remaining amount of her bill

Ah, but they're bankrupt, which is the beauty of the plan. There's no means of redress against a company that isn't there, and American corporate law shields the executives who made the decision to defraud their personnel from being held legally liable.

Crimes like this happen because there's no penalty to the criminal for committing them.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

There's no push by the citizens in those countries to make the system go away. Ever notice that? Ever wonder why?

When you grow up not knowing anything else exists then how do you know you can buck the system? If you have the money and you come to America to pay for the service out of pocket why would you complain? After all you can still get all of your other treatments free...well minor tax increases aside.

How many people with money come to America for health care services they can't get domestically? Really now. You're blowing that out of proportion.

And do you really think that after all these years, most citizens in other countries don't know about America's health care system? They know as much about yours as you purport to know about theirs, and no one wants our system except us.

When someone says why sir you have lived a long time and at 65 you really do not need that knee replacement you can have a walker or chair as that is more economical how will that make you feel?

I'd feel the same as if I was 65 years of age and I couldn't AFFORD a knee replacement because

a) my employer denied me my private retirement fund that they promised via contractual agreement; and
b) my private non social security investments were utterly crushed in 2008 by the subprime collapse of 2007.

When the doctor is having to request permission on how to treat you from some official who has never been to medical school will that give you warm fuzzys?

The doctor doesn't have to request permission from the Government to do something - they have to request funding. And if you replace the Government with Insurance Company, you get the same problem... magnified.

These are the things that bother me, why should someone else be in charge of MY healthcare?

Because it absolutely sucks to have to lose $7000 of your own hard earned money because your employer took your health insurance deductions out of your paycheck and pocketed it instead of paying the premiums he contractually agreed to pay?

I'm sure that bothered her. A lot.

 

[ubertroll]

These are the things that bother me, why should someone else be in charge of MY healthcare?

Like an insurance claims adjuster?


There HAS to be 3rd party auditing to make sure that you're not charing your health care fund for services [like, say, a weekly MRI] that are not medically neccessary. The question is, is it better for that person to work for a company [with the singular goal of justifying as many denials as possible] or the government [with the singular goal of spending exactly 100% of his budget, neither more nor less, as any bureaucrat knows]?

I know which of those two I'd pick; I have the pompoms ready for the socialized medicine debate.

 

[KellysCrack]

Honestly I really must just have good insurance....

No need for Spc referals...If something is discovered I go to the GP get what I need done there and they normally have me set up within the next day or so for the next step in the care...

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Honestly I really must just have good insurance....

No need for Spc referals...If something is discovered I go to the GP get what I need done there and they normally have me set up within the next day or so for the next step in the care...

And that's it and that's all, folks.

Everyone who has private corporation based medical insurance has good insurance. If their insurance company fucks them over with a denial of funding for a liver transplant and they die while fighting the denial, then it's their fault because they got sick. No wait, it's their fault because they were poor. Nah, you should be able to swing that on $150 a month. It's their fault because... well... well just because!

 

[unregistered]

 

[JohnnySavage]

Larry, seriously, get some sleep and a life. You post on this forum continuously. I know you are a business tycoon and super dad, but look, even super dads need sleep.

Howsacome if LaDopelope is a big insurance mogul, he wants government run health care instead of private insurance???

It's one of those mysteries like.... if LaDopelope is a multi-millionaire, hoswacome he giggles with glee when the stock market goes down?????

 

[great lover]

Howsacome if LaDopelope is a big insurance mogul, he wants government run health care instead of private insurance???

It's one of those mysteries like.... if LaDopelope is a multi-millionaire, hoswacome he giggles with glee when the stock market goes down?????

He's not yet understood the fact that insurance companies need to invest their money too. When he does that, he's gonna cry.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Like an insurance claims adjuster?

There HAS to be 3rd party auditing to make sure that you're not charing your health care fund for services [like, say, a weekly MRI] that are not medically neccessary. The question is, is it better for that person to work for a company [with the singular goal of justifying as many denials as possible] or the government [with the singular goal of spending exactly 100% of his budget, neither more nor less, as any bureaucrat knows]?

I know which of those two I'd pick; I have the pompoms ready for the socialized medicine debate.

And government health insurance is accountable to the voting public - private health insurance isn't.

 

[ubertroll]

He's not yet understood the fact that insurance companies need to invest their money too. When he does that, he's gonna cry.

Insurance companies do not need to gamble with the money that the insured are, in effect, setting aside in case of disaster.

They're gambling with other peoples' money! HOW IS THIS OKAY?

 

[jhuson]

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=12310680&ch=4226723&src=news

A Valley woman thought she was covered by health insurance, but when she had a baby, she found out she wasn't.

It turns out the employer was going bankrupt and it did not inform the employees.

The reporter implied it was up to HER to own up to her employer's fraudulent behavior and negotiate her payments down by 50%. The employer should be imprisoned for this, and this is why private health insurance as a primary payer is a concept shunned by the rest of the civilized world.

Did the woman have to make an employee contribution? If so, the employer is looking at charges of insurance fraud.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Did the woman have to make an employee contribution? If so, the employer is looking at charges of insurance fraud.

Yup. I'm not sure if she did, though. That's an assumption, but a well reasoned one.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Insurance companies do not need to gamble with the money that the insured are, in effect, setting aside in case of disaster.

They're gambling with other peoples' money! HOW IS THIS OKAY?

Dude. That's why I have that guy on ignore. His arguments aren't even worth anyone's time.

Investing in the stock market is why some insurance companies are taking such a hit now. I bet you they'll be bitch slapped back to the basics, won't they?

(And staying OUT OF the stock market is why my money is doing so well.)

 

[GratefulFred]

I do not think the government needs to provide health insurance. Employers will drop contributing and pass everything on to the government given the opportunity.

What needs to be done is for the government to tell hospitals & providers that they can't charge rates to the uninsured above that which they get from medicare to which they do accept.

When this woman is told to negotiate down her bill 50%, what you don't realize is that the hospital jacked the rates up by a factor of ten times what they would normally get from medicare.

Fix the hospital's ability to rip people off and you don't have to worry about all the people who can't get or afford health insurance.

$40 for a tylennol is the problem.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I do not think the government needs to provide health insurance. Employers will drop contributing and pass everything on to the government given the opportunity.

Other countries do it - and that's part of why they outcompete us. Employers over there don't have to cover their workers' health care, so their costs are lower.

What needs to be done is for the government to tell hospitals & providers that they can't charge rates to the uninsured above that which they get from medicare to which they do accept.

When this woman is told to negotiate down her bill 50%, what you don't realize is that the hospital jacked the rates up by a factor of ten times what they would normally get from medicare.

It wasn't even her job to negotiate. She should have filed charges against her employer for fraud. Or even insurance fraud if she contributed.

Fix the hospital's ability to rip people off and you don't have to worry about all the people who can't get or afford health insurance.

$40 for a tylennol is the problem.

That is also a valid solution for the overall problem.

 

[thesophist2005]

Nationalized Health Care

The truth is that nationalized health care will never happen in America. I suspect that all of this discussion is moot. President Clinton tried to reform healthcare a few years ago and he was not able to achieve any degree of success. I suspect what will happen this term, under President Obama, is that insurance companies will agree to cover all Americans and do so even if they have pre-existing conditions. I suspect that healthcare will also be made more portable so that if you lost your job you will not lose your coverage. Private insurance companies will continue to exist and expand.

This system will benefit insurance companies since more healthy Americans will be covered allowing them to offset their loses from greater numbers of people who are very ill and require expensive treatments and possibly even round the clock care. There will likely be a tax penalty for people not carrying health insurance. This system has been rolled out in MA, where I live, and even though there were serious cost over runs it seems to be working.

Certain groups such as children and veterans will be offered expanded care-which is reasonable. The age for Medicare enrollment may be dropped a bit to allow more people to join in sooner. Medicare reimbursements for hospitals and physicians will likely drop and they will reluctantly accept this as long as the system doesn't go nationalized. A few smaller hospitals will go under but larger, more financially sound ones will remain strong. Taxes will be raised to pay for expanded coverage and will be shoulderd by the wealthy. Althought it will be hotly debated I suspect that the tax increases on those making over $250,000 will pass. Increases on cigarettes, alcohol and the such may be considered to offset costs to Medicare but I'm not sure if they will pass.

An emphasis will be put on preventing illness since it sounds good-but it will not work. (For example it’s very hard to get people to stop smoking or lose 50 lbs if they are morbidly obese). If it does work will take 10-20 years to see any tangible benefit. Money will be put into electronic medical records and it will take 5-10 years to get all hospitals and doctors offices to adopt it. Although at great cost, it will help in reducing costs and errors to a small degree.

President Obama is charismatic but I doubt he can overcome special interest groups such as insurance companies, hospitals and physician groups all of whom who make some valid points and have a great deal of clout in Washington. Idealism is great, but if doesn't come with a measure of what is practically achievable and economically feasible-I think it’s useless. I suspect he, and his team, may know what’s feasible and they are doing some posturing to get concessions to at least make the system a little bit more equitable. I may be wrong but I don't see drastic changes happening anytime soon. I maybe wrong but at least I'm willing to put my money down on how I see this playing out.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

The truth is that nationalized health care will never happen in America.

Aside from this, your post was epically solid.