Poly-gamy/-andry/-gyny/-amory Thoughts?

[FurryFury]

I have days where I might disagree. Sometimes men confound me.

With the exception of my highly delusional and toxic ex, I've always felt men were easier to deal with than women.

If you can get them to talk they tend to be pretty straightforward like me. They've always been my comfort zone whereas women were scary, inconsistent and dangerous seeming to me.

Later in life I found I could understand women too. Now I think everyone is great but men still seem more straightforward to me.

 

[xssve]

What if you're in a polyamorous situation, and you don't want kids? I always hear children brought up in these discussions, but it doesn't apply to me. I don't want kids, and I've never been seriously involved with anyone who had them.

Does that somehow make it more ok? I never want to say "never," but I actively dislike children enough to take steps not to have them in my life. Either way, kids or no, in a poly situation, someone's going to get screwed because of the inability to enter into legal contracts that gives the same rights as marriage.

As far as the marriage thing goes, I always see it discussed as a man having two wives or a woman having two husbands or whatever. I never see it addressed as the two people of the same sex being married to one another. Like, saying I had a husband and a wife or whatever.

I don't think that made much sense. Everything's coming out way too stream-of-consciousness today. Sorry.

This is not unusual at your age, and makes the whole thing a little less fraught with complicating factors, but this may change as your biological clock ticks you closer to that particular decision gate.

i.e., I can only take the statement "I don't want kids, ever" seriously if the woman is over 35 minimum.

 

[Netzach]

This is not unusual at your age, and makes the whole thing a little less fraught with complicating factors, but this may change as your biological clock ticks you closer to that particular decision gate.

i.e., I can only take the statement "I don't want kids, ever" seriously if the woman is over 35 minimum.

Cool, here's a fun game for you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrsbudak/213861052/

I'm 35. I've always felt that way. Maybe you should shut up and listen because I said the same thing at 19 that I do now.

 

[Homburg]

Cool, here's a fun game for you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrsbudak/213861052/

I'm 35. I've always felt that way. Maybe you should shut up and listen because I said the same thing at 19 that I do now.

I have never understood why people think that being child-free is selfish. For many people, the baby is all about being selfish. They don't want to produce a child because they want to give to the world. They want to produce a child because of how it will make them feel.

 

[xssve]

Cool, here's a fun game for you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrsbudak/213861052/

I'm 35. I've always felt that way. Maybe you should shut up and listen because I said the same thing at 19 that I do now.

So, you feel comfortable speaking for all women in this regard?

 

[Keroin]

Cool, here's a fun game for you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrsbudak/213861052/

I'm 35. I've always felt that way. Maybe you should shut up and listen because I said the same thing at 19 that I do now.

THANK YOU!

I've always known I never wanted kids. How many times did I have to listen to, "Oh, you'll change your mind," in my twenties? Always accompanied by that smirky little smile.

The payback, however, is now, (at almost 40), when women ask if I have kids and I say no they don't give me some line about how I will have them some day and how happy they will make me, they just say, "Smart." My turn with the smirky smile.

Kids are great. Just not for me.

 

[xssve]

I have never understood why people think that being child-free is selfish. For many people, the baby is all about being selfish. They don't want to produce a child because they want to give to the world. They want to produce a child because of how it will make them feel.

Well it is selfish, that doesn't mean it's any more selfish than having kids for any reason other than that you like them and want them - that's selfish too, pretty much everthing we do is for selfish reasons.

I really don't care if you want them or not, I have no agenda here, other than the fact that I'm interested in how the whole poly-with-ums thing works, and in hearing about peoples experiences and thoughts in this regard - anybody have any problem with that?

In short, if there is no consensus on this issue, it ain't gonna happen in any large scale way, because oddly enough, a lot of people have kids, go figure.

That may not bother you, that's your prerogative, it is a question I'm interested in discussing, however superficially, mainly because I do have children and I like them just fine, that's all.

 

[CutieMouse]

So, you feel comfortable speaking for all women in this regard?

I think Netz was more making the point that it's condescending to automatically assume a woman in her 20s will change her mind re: having children.

 

[xssve]

I think Netz was more making the point that it's condescending to automatically assume a woman in her 20s will change her mind re: having children.

My personal experience, however, is quite the opposite, while I have met women who claimed to not want kids who turned out to be as good as their word, I've seen a statistically much more significant number who prefer to keep their options open - all I'm saying is that by 35 or so, I can reasonably assume your mind is firmly made up on the matter, and I'm not keeping you from your destiny by monopolizing a breeding female when all I want is a companion.

As I say, I wanted kids, and now I have them, but I really have no plans to make any more, and I get shot down more often over this than any other single reason.

What is condescending, is to presume I'm talking about you.

 

[deeteeZA]

A very wise man...

Well it is selfish, that doesn't mean it's any more selfish than having kids for any reason other than that you like them and want them - that's selfish too, pretty much everthing we do is for selfish reasons.

A very wise man once said "He who sits on the fence is viewed as a fool by both sides..."

I said that... I just decided I must be a very wise man

 

[deeteeZA]

The issue here is not kids in poly relationships, the real issue posted by the OP is the question of the various types of poly relationships and what form they take.

I posted an opinion purely from a polygyny point of view.

Polygamy: form of marriage in which a person [has] more than one spouse.
Polyandry: a form of polygamous marriage, or other sexual union, in which one individual is married to two or more husbands at the same time.
Polygyny: polygamy in which one man is married to two or more wives.
Polyamory: desire, practice, or acceptance of having more than one loving, intimate relationship at a time with the full knowledge and consent of everyone involved.

Children do become an issue, as in most (note I said most, not all) cases these are an automatic by product of a marriage relationship.

Looking at some (state/gov't and societally sponsored "normal") monogamous relationships, I wonder how such people could be allowed to have children.

The choice therefore on whether or not to have children is entirely up to the partners within the relationship, and be it for whatever reasons, this IMO does not have any bearing on the type of relationship. By the same token, WRT same sex "marriages", which I do not either condemn nor condone, there are many of these relationships wherein the partners wish "to have children", and whether (in the case of FF) use artificial insemination, or in the case of MM where the only option is adoption, this remains a choice by the involved parties.



Once again, speaking from a poly point of view, what are the experiences / issues etc. of other forum members...

 

[BiBunny]

This is not unusual at your age, and makes the whole thing a little less fraught with complicating factors, but this may change as your biological clock ticks you closer to that particular decision gate.

i.e., I can only take the statement "I don't want kids, ever" seriously if the woman is over 35 minimum.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that....

You know what? I usually don't dignify that crap with a remark, but I'm in a mood today. There are a whole lot of factors that went into my decision, and quite frankly, I think it was an intelligent one on my part.

I didn't like kids when I was a kid. When I was a little girl, I never wanted to play Mommy games. I have always known I didn't want kids. But there's a lot more to it than that, even though I always cite that as my reason. Usually, I consider the rest of it none of anyone's damned business.

And now, with my various internal female organ issues that are apparently hereditary, I'd probably have to jump through a bunch of hoops, just like my mother did, to have a kid. I am so not interested.

With each successive generation, my mother's family has gotten exponentially smaller. There have been autoimmune disorders in the past three generations that I know of--my grandmother, my mother, and me, each one getting increasingly worse down the generational line. I, personally, have my entire upper right leg deformed by linear scleroderma (and have the attendant spinal problems from walking around with one leg shorter than the other), and now it's spreading up my back.

I believe that there was a reason it was hard for my mother to reproduce. (I was her only child, after 10 or so years of trying and fertility treatments.) The crappy genes in my family need to be removed from the gene pool. For me to know what I know about the apparent genetic link of the autoimmune diseases and to STILL insist on having a child would be both pretty damned irresponsible of me AND incredibly selfish.

There is also the fact that the kind of life I have finally realized that I want to live would not be conducive to child-rearing at all. I want to pursue my own dreams and only have to worry about providing for myself. I have seen too many people try to do this while they had children, and it's totally unfair to put the kids through.

Furthermore, the kind of slavery I need would be the complete kind, the kind where HE is my ultimate responsibility and second to nothing. With children, this would not be possible or, again, fair to the kids. A life of art and pure service is not a world that it would be responsible to bring children into.

So, yes, I actually have thought this through, and I have a myriad of reasons for my decision, both selfish and unselfish. I have known for many, many years that I didn't want kids, and I think it is incredibly rude and condescending of you to attempt to tell me how I'll feel later.

Of course, the whole point is going to be moot once I can afford some insurance. I'll get myself fixed and when nosy people ask questions, I'll say, "I had my tubes tied because of various health problems, but I'll be just fine without children."

 

[BiBunny]

Actually, you know what? I told y'all I was in a mood today. I hate double-posting, but I didn't want to edit the original post for this.

Why the fuck are women always depicted as slaves to their goddamned "biological clocks," whatever the FUCK that is? If I were such a slave to it, I'd have already grabbed up some dude and gotten married by now because I'm the only one of my friends who's still single. But, nope. I recently dumped a dude who I'd been dating about a year simply because he was getting too close and too clingy.

I see far more MEN who are slaves to the whims of this "biological clock." How many dudes do you know who went and got married to some chick totally unsuitable for them just because she happened to be in the right place at the right time. "The right place at the right time," of course, means that all his buddies got married, and he didn't have any single guys left to drink with anymore.

Ok, I'm done. I promise.

 

[xssve]

A very wise man once said "He who sits on the fence is viewed as a fool by both sides..."

I said that... I just decided I must be a very wise man

As I said, I get turned down for this reason more often by women under 35 - over 35, they turn me down because... I have kids. Lol.

Again, poly with kids (children in the household) is something generally mroe commonly found in religious forms of poly, where the object of it is to have kids, whatever - I'm less interested at this point in the legal ramifications than I am in social perceptions: i.e., it's essentially the same argument used against gay marriage, that the kids will turn out gay, etc. - I've already seen the research, they don't, and that isn't the issue either, kids are very adaptive, I'm just curious if anybody has had any experience in this.

With regard to my original statement, and the responses it generated - we're talking about biology here, what you want intellectually doesn't always have a lot to do with it - we may want to lose weight, we may just crave the ice cream more.

 

[Netzach]

So, you feel comfortable speaking for all women in this regard?

I'm comfortable saying that until that woman has personally come to you and said "you know, I changed my mind." you do not know jack. Not jack, jack shit, or his cousin squat.

 

[xssve]

Whether you believe in it or not, it's there, in much the same way that before puberty the thought of sex is simply non-existent if not fairly disgusting - after puberty hits, you think about it a lot, in whatever terms, romance, etc.

Same thing happens to women in their Thirties, which, no entirely coincidentally, is about the same time their sex drive goes into high gear.

Go figure.

 

[Netzach]

Whether you believe in it or not, it's there, in much the same way that before puberty the thought of sex is simply non-existent if not fairly disgusting - after puberty hits, you think about it a lot, in whatever terms, romance, etc.

Same thing happens to women in their Thirties, which, no entirely coincidentally, is about the same time their sex drive goes into high gear.

Go figure.

I can't imagine why any woman would reject you. I mean you have her all figured out so well based on demographics and articles. Whatever she says about herself is immaterial.

I've never met one single girl who at 19 was saying "I really want a baby, I've always wanted one" who at 35 doesn't have one voluntarily and never would have one and is so happy she didn't. There is a biological clock and a drive in most women, but when it's not there it's not there.

So maybe some of them aren't so in the dark about themselves. Some people do change their minds, but you're as in the dark about that likelihood as they are.

 

[xssve]

I'm comfortable saying that until that woman has personally come to you and said "you know, I changed my mind." you do not know jack. Not jack, jack shit, or his cousin squat.

I'm sorry, perhaps I'm not being clear - your opinion is irrelevant in this, and has no empirical validity beyond a single anecdotal report, which has been duly noted. There is nothing to be gained by discussing it with you any further, so show me some research, or shut the fuck up.

 

[xssve]

So maybe some of them aren't so in the dark about themselves. Some people do change their minds, but you're as in the dark about that likelihood as they are.

Precisely my point.

A lot of women claim they want to remain virgins until they're married too - whatever, I don't care what you do, it's my rule of thumb, that's all, and I see no reason to change it, I don't even care how it falls out one way or the other statistically, there is only one persons choices/opinions that concern me here, and surprisingly enough, they don't happen to be yours.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I met my husband when I was 18 and married at 23. I told him when we first started getting serious that I never wanted children. Ever. I didn't like children, I never felt maternal. I didn't play with dolls as a kid. I didn't want to be my mother.

However, for a variety of reasons when I was around 30 I changed my mind. Unfortunately I found out then that I had fertility issues. I am now the very proud and happy mother of two wonderful children. I couldn't imagine my life without them.

However...some of the same reasons I didn't want children do crop up now. I still don't like other peoples children. I had rather severe postpartum depression that went ignored until after my 2nd was born. And of course having children does impact my sex life.

I am not saying that all or even most women who say they don't want kids in their 20's will change their minds, I'm just saying that at least in my case I did.

As far as being poly with kids? I don't live with my PYL. He has his wife and their children, I have my husband and our children. The children in both cases have not been told about our situation. I will do whatever I can to make sure they never do find out. Just as I am not interested in their sex lives when they reach adulthood, they have no business knowing mine.

 

[Netzach]

Precisely my point.

If you really think you have no idea where it's going to go you don't come to the conclusion that that person in fact will change their mind, and you certainly don't hit that person (in this case Bi Bunny) with the wagging "you'll change your mind" finger. That's my point.

A lot of women claim they want to remain virgins until they're married too - whatever, I don't care what you do, it's my rule of thumb, that's all, and I see no reason to change it, I don't even care how it falls out one way or the other statistically, there is only one persons choices/opinions that concern me here, and surprisingly enough, they don't happen to be yours.

Oh you'll change your mind, don't worry. *headpat*

 

[Netzach]

I'm sorry, perhaps I'm not being clear - your opinion is irrelevant in this, and has no empirical validity beyond a single anecdotal report, which has been duly noted. There is nothing to be gained by discussing it with you any further, so show me some research, or shut the fuck up.

That isn't an opinion at all. It's rather like pointing out that you don't know what's in a closed box you don't know the contents of. It's actually pretty factual, only someone who's exceptionally arrogant or mystically minded or who actually knows what's in the box would argue it.

 

[xssve]

Women are famous for never changing their minds about anything of course.

Does that help you out there in your new career of putting words into my mouth?

Personally, I feel enough respect for the person I wish to subjugate and devote herself entirely to my needs, to not wish to prevent her from changing her mind if she should happen to do so, it isn't something I would feel comfortable holding someone to, that's just how I roll.

If I follow your advice, and this occurs, you are willing to take responsibility? If not, then you should not mind if I ignore you.

Can we safely drop the subject yet?

 

[xssve]

That isn't an opinion at all. It's rather like pointing out that you don't know what's in a closed box you don't know the contents of. It's actually pretty factual, only someone who's exceptionally arrogant or mystically minded or who actually knows what's in the box would argue it.

In that case, it must be you, since you are arguing that you know what's in the box - I am admitting that I don't as far as I know it could go either way.

And to reiterate, I don't give a damn what or who is in your box, and I have no idea why you're taking this so personally, other than some sort of troll for attention.

You didn't want kids, you don't have them - what do you want, an award?

Step up or step off. I already know what your opinion is, I heard it the first time, and there is little to be gained by repeating it.

 

[BiBunny]

I think until you have a uterus and the will to use it, your opinion is probably completely irrelevant to this thread, too.

Can we please go back to discussing the various "poly-" prefix things now?