I didn't sign on for this.

[Boxlicker101]

A while ago, there was a thread here asking people to add their names to a petition saying Prop 8 should be overturned. I considered that to be an issue of personal freedom, and had no problem doing it. Now the people who were running that campaign are trying to get me, and presumably others, to support them in this highly partisan attack on the California Constitution. I ain't gonna do it. There is a good reason for super majorities, and they even appear in places in the US Constitution. I think the two party system is a good idea, and a safeguard of Democracy, and I don't want to change it.

Have you had enough? Rachel Maddow has...‏
From: Rick Jacobs, Courage Campaign (info@couragecampaign.org)
Sent: Thu 2/19/09 2:11 PM
To: George Ellis (clitsucker101@hotmail.com)

Dear George,


Rachel Maddow's had enough. Have you?

California's government is hopelessly broken. Led by state Senator Abel Maldonado, Republicans turned the budget negotiations into a hostage crisis by exploiting the rule requiring a 2/3rds vote of the legislature to pass a budget.

California Republicans are an extreme minority. A party in exile. Rejected by Californians at the ballot box, Republicans have decided to take revenge by using the budget crisis to achieve their radical goals, no matter the cost.

This is insanity. And it's made possible by the 2/3rds rule, which allows a small cabal of extremist Republicans to hold the state hostage to their demands, as they have done year after year.

Last night, Rachel Maddow and California Assembly Speaker Karen Bass told America of the consequences of California's crisis. They explained that California Republicans are trying to set a precedent for the entire nation -- that obstructing economic recovery is their path to power.

We have to stop the insanity. The only way this madness will end is if we eliminate the 2/3rds rule. Please watch what Rachel Maddow said last night and join the Courage Campaign and CREDO Mobile in taking the pledge to support a repeal of the 2/3rds rule:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/RepealTwoThirds

In the wake of dramatic progressive victories in the 2008 elections, the Republican counterattack is going to focus on ensuring government cannot meet the needs of the people in the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. They believe that if government fails, they will win the next election.

Only TWO other states -- the small states of Rhode Island and Arkansas -- require a 2/3rds supermajority to pass a budget. But, ironically, it requires a 2/3rds vote of the legislature to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot to repeal the 2/3rds rule.

Since Republicans in the legislature will try to block that too, it is up to we, the people, to restore democracy to California and finally end the Republicans' obstruction. And the only way we can stop them is to repeal the 2/3rds rule by ballot initiative.

This budget insanity will never end -- it will go on year after year after year -- unless we build a movement to repeal the 2/3rds rule now. That's why the Courage Campaign is teaming up with CREDO Mobile to launch this pledge. Please watch the video, sign the pledge and ask your friends to join us:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/RepealTwoThirds

Along with our progressive allies, the Courage Campaign will pursue a ballot initiative to repeal the 2/3rds rule. When the initiative is launched, we will contact you about where and when to sign to put it on the ballot.

Thank you for pledging to eliminate the 2/3rds rule and taking a stand against the right-wing's relentless campaign to destroy California.

Rick Jacobs
Chair

P.S. Repealing the 2/3rds rule is just the first of the constitutional changes California needs. Along with the Bay Area Council and other "good government" organizations, the Courage Campaign is co-sponsoring a Constitutional Convention Summit in Sacramento on Tuesday, February 24. It's open to the public and we'd love to see you there. For more information, go to:

http://www.repaircalifornia.org


..............


The Courage Campaign Issues Committee is part of the Courage Campaign's online organizing network that empowers over 600,000 grassroots and netroots activists to push for progressive change in California.


To support our campaign to change California, please chip in what you can today:

 

[amicus]

Thank you for the insight. California did manage to pass their budget, but, from what you presented, it seems that may not solve things.

In a real sense, Californians deserve what is happening and will happen there.

From bits and pieces on the news, business and industry are fleeing the high taxes, regulation and 'green' requirements that make doing business a losing effort.

The heavily democrat/liberal State may serve as an example of what not to do in terms of managing an economy and passing laws that restrict the ability of the people to earn a living.

I know the faithful of the green energy revolution will object to this assessment, but the combination of renewable resources simply cannot meet the demands of such a large population. The State has failed to let the market place function and supply the huge energy needs and this is and will even more so in the near future, cause an economic calamity that will affect the entire nation as so much 'truck garden' produce is grown there.

I can see why it might be wise to disassociate yourself from the movement, although your post left me uncertain, except for the first part, as to just where you stand, aside from not wanting to change the Constitution.

Anyway....I thought your post deserved a comment.

Regards...

Amicus...

 

[DeeZire]

There is a good reason for super majorities, and they even appear in places in the US Constitution. I think the two party system is a good idea, and a safeguard of Democracym, and I don't want to change it.

I see a contradiction in terms between "democracy" and a super majority. If a super majority was required for everything democracy does, the whole system would be dysfunctional, as CA has illustrated.

Didn't the article mention that only two states require a super majority for budget approval? I believe in my state it now takes a super majority to raise taxes, but not to lower them. WTF is that all about? If the conservatives in this state hadn't "temporarily" cut taxes a few years ago, they wouldn't be trying to balance the budget by defunding public education right now. They're all a bunch of weasels. At least the liberal weasels value education. All the conservative weasels value is lower taxes, regardless of consequences. What a bunch of weasels. (I know, I'm being redundant, but some weasels deserve more scorn than other weasels.)

In reference to Ami's lament that businesses are fleeing the state, they're also fleeing the country. It's understandable that businesses wouldn't appreciate the benefits of paying taxes, since their only concern is the bottom line, but basing a philosophy on the bottom line seems a little short sighted to me. There is more to life than a hefty bank balance. There are quality of life issues that can only be addressed by taxes, since not everyone is born with the altruism gene, and those without it seem to rise to the upper echelons of power in greater numbers. (Never mind, Ami - you'll never understand the concept.)

 

[Boxlicker101]

I see a contradiction in terms between "democracy" and a super majority. If a super majority was required for everything democracy does, the whole system would be dysfunctional, as CA has illustrated.

Didn't the article mention that only two states require a super majority for budget approval? I believe in my state it now takes a super majority to raise taxes, but not to lower them. WTF is that all about? If the conservatives in this state hadn't "temporarily" cut taxes a few years ago, they wouldn't be trying to balance the budget by defunding public education right now. They're all a bunch of weasels. At least the liberal weasels value education. All the conservative weasels value is lower taxes, regardless of consequences. What a bunch of weasels. (I know, I'm being redundant, but some weasels deserve more scorn than other weasels.)

In reference to Ami's lament that businesses are fleeing the state, they're also fleeing the country. It's understandable that businesses wouldn't appreciate the benefits of paying taxes, since their only concern is the bottom line, but basing a philosophy on the bottom line seems a little short sighted to me. There is more to life than a hefty bank balance. There are quality of life issues that can only be addressed by taxes, since not everyone is born with the altruism gene, and those without it seem to rise to the upper echelons of power in greater numbers. (Never mind, Ami - you'll never understand the concept.)

The reason behind the super majority idea is to keep the majority from running roughshod over the minority. To pass a Constitutional amendment, you need a 2/3 majority in both houses of Congress. The reason for laws such as these is so that most people will have to agree that a major change is a good idea. It doesn't always work that way, but that's the idea.

 

[amicus]

You give me pause for consideration, Box. Thinking of the Amendment to ban alcohol and that it took a two thirds, super majority to accomplish that.

What were they thinking?

Also, imagine the Framers, considering, for really the first time in History, just how to determine where to a apply a simple majority, the sixty percent filibuster majority and the super majority to different functions within government.

I read somewhere, long ago, that an amendment before Congress, to limit all future taxes to a maximum of ten percent, failed, because they believed no future Congress would ever even come close to that high a tax.

Imagine that!

Amicus...

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Unfortunately, it doesn't require a 2/3 majority to change the Constitution by referendum. If it had, Prop 8 would be ancient history.


But don't panic. In 2010 there will another census require redistricting of the legislature and next time it won't be by a bunch of self-serving bastards from both parties keeping their seats cozy. I suspect that there will a serious elimination of nut-cases from both sides of the aisle.


As to businesses fleeing the country. Of course they are, Congress in its almighty wisdom subsidizes them to do so! Didn't know that did you?

 

[Boxlicker101]

You give me pause for consideration, Box. Thinking of the Amendment to ban alcohol and that it took a two thirds, super majority to accomplish that.

What were they thinking?

Also, imagine the Framers, considering, for really the first time in History, just how to determine where to a apply a simple majority, the sixty percent filibuster majority and the super majority to different functions within government.

I read somewhere, long ago, that an amendment before Congress, to limit all future taxes to a maximum of ten percent, failed, because they believed no future Congress would ever even come close to that high a tax.

Imagine that!

Amicus...

I can't believe that you don't know the process for passing a Constitutional amendment.

 

[amicus]

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution/

Not sure how you got that impression, but then, never mind.

Amicus...

 

[oggbashan]

Centuries ago the state of Poland required all legislation to be passed unanimously by all the (noble) representatives of their Parliament.

The result?

No legislation was possible and their state and constitution collapsed.

A two-thirds majority is difficult enough. A 100% majority is effectively impossible.

Og

 

[rgraham666]

From my favorite book.

DEMOCRACY An existential system in which words are more important than actions. Not a judgemental system.

Democracy is not meant to be efficient, linear, logical, cheap, the source of absolute truth, manned by angels, saints or virgins, profitable, a simple matter of majority rule or for that matter a simple matter of majorities. Nor is it an administrative procedure, patriotic, a reflection of tribalism, a passive servant of either law or regulation, elegant or particularly charming.

Democracy is the only system capable of reflecting the humanist premise of equilibrium or balance. The key to its secret is the involvement of the citizen.

If a representative is using the system to hold up legislation for no other reason than to score political points, they're misusing the system and failing the their constituents.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DEE ZIRE

The choice is between a big mob or a little mob running things; this is the nature of democracy.

Lets talk about taxes. The Usual Suspects always piss & whine about too little tax revenues, but never complain about spending.

Three years ago Jeb Bush privatized the agency I worked for. The government agency did the work for 6 million, and the private contractor took the job for 13 million. In 2000 the state built a desal plant here for 150 MILLION. In 2008 they finally got it to work after spending another 200 MILLION. Yesterdays paper says its seriously broke again. Ditto for a huge reservoir they built. It has huge cracks in it and they cant fill it.

A lot of tax money is pissed away, and crying for more doesnt undo the colossal fuck ups Democrats & Republicans inflict of citizens.

No one wants to talk about responsibility, accountability, or prioritizing spending.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Dumb-ass

A while ago, there was a thread here asking people to add their names to a petition saying Prop 8 should be overturned. I considered that to be an issue of personal freedom, and had no problem doing it. Now the people who were running that campaign are trying to get me, and presumably others, to support them in this highly partisan attack on the California Constitution.

Box do you take LOTS of drugs? How the FUCK do you dare connect these two issues?

What you have tried to do is justify your stance for one subject by smearing the shit out of a completely different group of people and issues. It's like you are trying to justify jaywalking by saying that women get raped because they asked for it!

• They are NOT the same people!

• They are NOT the same issue!

• They do NOT have the same moral equivalency!

• They do NOT have the same legal equivalency!

Make your fucked up comparisons standing on somebody else's back, not me and mine.


BTW, Rachel Maddow doesn't post here much, to the best of my knowledge...

 

[Weird Harold]

Unfortunately, it doesn't require a 2/3 majority to change the Constitution by referendum. If it had, Prop 8 would be ancient history.

When are people going to learn that Constitutions -- State, Federal, or neighborhood bowling and debating society -- aren't like underwear, they don't need to be changed every time somebody farts.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
A while ago, there was a thread here asking people to add their names to a petition saying Prop 8 should be overturned. I considered that to be an issue of personal freedom, and had no problem doing it. Now the people who were running that campaign are trying to get me, and presumably others, to support them in this highly partisan attack on the California Constitution.

Box do you take LOTS of drugs? How the FUCK do you dare connect these two issues?

What you have tried to do is justify your stance for one subject by smearing the shit out of a completely different group of people and issues. It's like you are trying to justify jaywalking by saying that women get raped because they asked for it!

• They are NOT the same people!

• They are NOT the same issue!

• They do NOT have the same moral equivalency!

• They do NOT have the same legal equivalency!

Make your fucked up comparisons standing on somebody else's back, not me and mine.


BTW, Rachel Maddow doesn't post here much, to the best of my knowledge...

I'm not connecting these two issues, and I agree there should be no connection. However, the connection is this: After I added my name to the petition that I mentioned in the first sentence, I got an email from a man calling himself Rick Jacobs, saying he was from something called Courage Campaign. Okay, that was fine. I was cool with that.

Then I got the email I posted when I started this thread, asking for my support in a completely different campaign, one that has nothing to do with gay marriage. I actually consider the current campaign to be an atack on the state Constitution, and I will not support it. That's what I meant when I said I didn't sign on for this.

I don't know if I will reply to the second email or not. I am aware it is just a mass mailing, and a response would almost certainly not even be noticed. I might do it anyhow, just for my own sake.

For your information, here is the first email I received:

"I am generally not a crier. It takes a lot to make me tear up at movies... Yet I cried like a baby at this. There's something this video does for me that witnessing protests and pounding out blog posts and reading op-eds just doesn't do. This isn't a political football. This isn't an abstract debate. This is about people." -- Ann Friedman, The American Prospect

Dear George,



Thank you for signing our letter to the state Supreme Court asking them to invalidate Prop 8, reject Ken Starr's attempt to nullify 18,000 same-sex marriages, and let all loving, committed couples marry in California.

Because of you, over 800,000 people have watched "Fidelity" and thousands of tears have been shed in response to this poignant and inspiring video.

Now, we need your help to bring "Fidelity" to 1 million people -- your friends, family and neighbors.

Our friends at MoveOn are calling this video "one of the most incredible actions we've ever seen." Indeed, the love infused in the authentic images of "Fidelity," in concert with Regina Spektor's beautiful song, has provoked a strong response from people across the country, gay and straight alike. Many people have told us that it has helped them express the meaning of marriage equality to their friends and family -- and the pain caused by the passage of Prop 8 -- for the first time.

Opportunities to change the hearts and minds of Americans on same-sex marriage don't come along very often. Based on this unprecedented reaction, we think "Fidelity" is one of them.

This is not our opportunity -- it is YOUR opportunity. If you know people who should see this video, whether they agree with you or not, please FORWARD this email to them right now and ask them to watch "Fidelity" and sign our letter to the state Supreme Court before they meet on March 5. Our Courage Campaign community goal: 1 million views and 350,000 signatures by March 2:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/Divorce

"Fidelity" has struck a deep chord across the political spectrum. Andrew Sullivan, a leading conservative writer for the The Atlantic magazine, wrote:

"In the end, the marriage debate is about whether it is in the interest of society as a whole to attack and demean couples who are constructing loving, committed strong relationships, with the help of their friends, families and government.

Whatever else it is, the attempt to break up these relationships, to deny and invalidate the hopes and dreams they aspire to, is both cruel and deeply hostile to any conservatism that seeks to bring people together around the shared values of family, fidelity and responsibility. Maybe this video will help bring that home."

Forwarding this email is just one way to bring this powerful message home to your family, friends and neighbors. You can also spread the word about "Fidelity" on Facebook, MySpace, Twitter and other social networking web sites. Take a moment today to help us make our community goal: 1 million views and 350,000 signatures by March 2:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/Divorce

Thank you to the amazing people who sent us these wonderful pictures. Thank you to Regina Spektor for her beautiful song. And thank you for sharing "Fidelity" with your friends today.

Rick Jacobs
Chair

P.S. Here's what Michael Jones had to say over at Change.org:

"Wanna see the best video on the subject of same-sex marriage to date? Check out the Courage Campaign's "Fidelity" video, which shows the very families and couples that will be harmed if the California Supreme Court fails to invalidate Proposition 8. If you've already seen this video, forward it onto others. It's the most powerful thing I've seen to date on Proposition 8, and the struggle for marriage equality."

http://www.couragecampaign.org/Divorce
..............


Courage Campaign Issues is part of the Courage Campaign's online organizing network that empowers over 600,000 grassroots and netroots activists to push for progressive change in California.


To power our campaign to repeal Prop 8, please chip