The going rate for our writing

[CharleyH]

Times are tough, I know we get what we can, but I hoped to create a discussion about payment for writing. I am not talking chapbooks or publishing percentages, but they are welcome. I am hoping to create a kind of guide for all of us about payment for writing. Let's talk cold hard writing: Here is an example (is what I MEANT):

$350.00 for exclusive stories (that I can never use again in this lifetime)
$175.00 flat for sex travel articles (6 months exclusive)
$0.13 cents a word for researched sex articles (exclusive).
$0.05 cents a word for sex blogs. (exclusive)

Let's hear from you!

 

[john-the-author]

One of the issues to consider is how long it may take you to crank out a given number of words, too. I write by the hour in my real life, generally, so if I'm getting a flat rate or a per-word rate for something, I tend to think "Okay, they're paying me x per word, but how many words can I generate in an hour?" Some gigs work out to about a buck-three-ninety-eight an hour that way if they're hard to write, but I've had flat-rate gigs that paid absurd amounts/hour when I could just jam 'em out.

I've not yet sold any of my erotica (with good reason, sadly; I need to learn about plotting), but I have high hopes of getting there.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

The only time I ever got paid for writing was in the Army and I got paid by the drill weekend or the two week summer camp.


Obviously, none of it was erotic to anyone but the oddest of tastes.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Depends. $4.99 for a "novel" length work direct from eXcessica. Anything from 35-75K. 50% of that on Fictionwise. 60% of that on All Romance Ebooks. Only 35% of that on Mobi/Kindle. With those prices, it's all based on volume...

 

[Liar]

Let's hear from you!

Bah, you get to write much more fun stuff than me.

Here's what I'm approx. paid (in $ for your convenience)

$1200 for 20k characters (exclusive incl copyright) - takes at least a full work week of research/interviews and stuff
$600 for 5-10k (exclusive incl copyright)
$20 for random news blog crap. (non exclusive)

Like john said, the more interresting question is, how much do you get per hour, when you add up writing, editing, nessecary research and paperwork needed to get paid (sending bills, and such)?

And whatever percentage of that which you're paid that fucks off in taxes. I'd assume it's higher here than o'er there, so that's part of what shapes my pay level.

In a month, I usually manage to write two big and two small articles, plus a blog thing every workday.

So, $4000/month, give or take. 22 workdays/month, 8 hours/day, that makes $22.7/hour. Before Swedish sales taxes and business taxes. (self employed) Compared to an employed worker's salary before taxes, I make about 15 bux. Doesn't suck, for a job that's actually usually pretty fun.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The going rate for a piece of porn (~5K words) is about $25 in my experience, if you can find the market.

I sold an 12K word story to Harlequin Spice and they paid me $675, so that's about $0.06/word. That's the best I've ever done.

The books I've had with Ellora's Cave, if you figure (first month's royalties)/(# of words) come out to be in the ~4-5 cents a word neighborhood.

Writing for me is such an episodic and idiosyncratic occupation that I really can't say how much I make an hour, but that's kind of irrelevant. It's an obsession, not a career move.

 

[jomar]

I've written articles for a business newsletter for $80-$120 per article (about $80-$120 an hour).

 

[john-the-author]

Bah, you get to write much more fun stuff than me.

Here's what I'm approx. paid (in $ for your convenience)

$1200 for 20k characters (exclusive incl copyright) - takes at least a full work week of research/interviews and stuff
$600 for 5-10k (exclusive incl copyright)
$20 for random news blog crap. (non exclusive)

Like john said, the more interresting question is, how much do you get per hour, when you add up writing, editing, nessecary research and paperwork needed to get paid (sending bills, and such)?

And whatever percentage of that which you're paid that fucks off in taxes. I'd assume it's higher here than o'er there, so that's part of what shapes my pay level.

In a month, I usually manage to write two big and two small articles, plus a blog thing every workday.

So, $4000/month, give or take. 22 workdays/month, 8 hours/day, that makes $22.7/hour. Before Swedish sales taxes and business taxes. (self employed) Compared to an employed worker's salary before taxes, I make about 15 bux. Doesn't suck, for a job that's actually usually pretty fun.

The rule of thumb is that if you're self-employed here in the States, if you add three zeroes to your hourly rate, that's your approximate buying power in terms of an annual salary. (E.g., $40/hour is about the same as making $40,000/year.) This takes into account paying for your income tax, your self-employment tax (12.3% here), the month of holidays and vacataion days you're not getting from an employer, the misc costs of coffee, phones, magazines, paper clips, computers, and toner cartridges, and health & life insurance. The ratio starts getting better above about $40-50/hour, but you can still figure that it's at least 40 cents off the dollar to be self-employed.

OTOH, I get to deduct a whole lot of things and I have the TV on in the background right now while I'm writing in bikini briefs, so there are many compensations for this.

 

[Pure]

i believe i got 2-3 cents a word for porn written to certain specifications.

doc, i see, is quoting a .5 [point five, i.e. one half] cents per word. slave labor!

---
i just looked at

http://www.customeroticasource.com/ce/order.shtml

their writers claim to be published, but marcy sheiner was the only name i recognized.

10 cents a word

 

[amicus]

Not that this observation is relevant, but I found newpaper reporting, on a flat salary per week provided me with an almost liveable income. I did supplement that by playing music on the radio three hours a day and selling advertising.

Interestingly enough the were both work I loved and to earn a living doing that, is, in my opinion, well worth the effort.

Only a few in either business earn large amounts, but the possiblity is always there.

Amicus...

 

[DeeZire]

Slightly OT, but - I made a couple grand off a song I cowrote. Probably about an hour of work. I've made a few hundred each on a couple of other songs that were recorded by local artists - again, for a couple hours of work (plus income from all-original solo projects that do turn a profit, eventually.)

Now, if I were to factor in the time I've spent on all the other songs in my catalogue, I'd be into the high six figures of negative numbers. The sickening part is that any one of at least a dozen of my songs could have been into six figures of positive income if they had only landed in the right place at the right time. But I'm sure every writer can say the same thing about that book-to-movie deal that never happened.

The point is, songwriting pays really well on a per-word basis - when it pays. (Especially when you get to repeat words in the repeating chorus! It's like doubling your pay.)

 

[KarennaC]

So far the only money-making writing I've done is a phonics-based reading and comprehension program I wrote about eight years ago. It was published seven years ago, is used in various schools in at least a dozen states, and I still get quarterly royalties, albeit very small amounts usually. (It averages about $100 per quarter at this point.)

I've had a few people tell me I need to do something with my erotica and with the teen novels I write under my real name, that I need to treat writing as a business and I'd make a decent amount at it. I fully admit being suckish at marketing, but more than that, I find it hard to treat something I enjoy so much as a business. Writing for me is an escape from stress; if it became business, it would be something I'd want to escape from.

However, I am starting to learn how to do some marketing, and am working at it, since my first erotic e-book is due out in... March? I think? We'll see how I do with that

My dream would be to make a living from my writing, though. Without it becoming all business and no fun.

 

[impressive]

Royalties-based work is difficult to quantify, since (with ebooks, anyway) it has an indefinite shelf life. Regular new releases and a growing backlist are critical to building a decent wage with electronic publishing. I spent 3 years gaining name recognition and critical acclaim with short stories and novellas. Now, I'm just starting to put out longer (more expensive) work -- and those readers are following. My backlist is still selling well, and there's a surge with each new release.

Having an enormous Lit following (which I never had/sought) can certainly translate to excellent ebook sales -- as DanielleKitten and Selena can attest.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Horror is maybe the worst place to make a living as a writer. I doubt that the pay has improved since Stephen King was starting out. From what I can see, the mags dont last very long and they have small subscription bases. Most pay nothing for submissions.

But some do. A very few pay 5-6 cents a word. I found ONE that pays 10 cents a word.

Several mags arent accepting submissions until 2010. Every teen in America imagines they can write horror.

I sold the first story I submitted, for real money...not real great money...but real money. It's 1K in length. One other story is out there, and three more are done and ready to mail.

I suspect horror mags serve as a resume to impress agents and book publishers.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Having an enormous Lit following (which I never had/sought) can certainly translate to excellent ebook sales -- as DanielleKitten and Selena can attest.

Yes, it's true. Without it, I wouldn't have sold nearly as well in ebook form.

 

[john-the-author]

Not that this observation is relevant, but I found newpaper reporting, on a flat salary per week provided me with an almost liveable income. I did supplement that by playing music on the radio three hours a day and selling advertising.

Interestingly enough the were both work I loved and to earn a living doing that, is, in my opinion, well worth the effort.

Only a few in either business earn large amounts, but the possiblity is always there.

Amicus...

Ami: The journalists I've known have said similar things. It's a great job, gets you out in the open air periodically, and you can feel like you're doing something for the world, but it rarely pays handsomely, if ever. You're really working for your living as a reporter. It's the psychic benefits that are the cushion on that job and those may well be enough.

 

[shereads]

$350 for an exclusive story sounds pretty good to me. (I'm in dire straits, both work-related and financially, so would welcome a quick $350 for a story of the kind I actually enjoy writing.

If I could earn that three or four times a month, I'd be in a lot better financial shape than I am now.

My question is, what's your client's criteria for these $350 stories? (Other than exclusivity.) How long? Do they have to be in the area of 750 words, like stories submitted to Lit?

Starving writer awaits your answer in her garret.

 

[slyc_willie]

I see the profit gained from my writing (not much) as a bonus. I don't want to write for profit, because that implies that I'd want to cater to the hot topics. Checking out what's selling on Fictionwise, if I only wanted to make money, I'd pen a novel about gay incestuous vampires. But I detest vampire fiction, so I would only be compromising myself by "selling out."

Maybe I'm an idealist (if you ask the SO, she'd confirm that with an enormously resounding "YUP"), but I write what I want -- for the most part. I admit I briefly succumbed to the lure of profit and began a project that went against my personal writerly grain, with the idea of offering it through eXcessica. I'm almost disgusted with myself that I did so.

I write what I want. If it sells, great. I can use the money to pay off some bills or get some things for the SO and little one. If not, no biggee. I have a day job, one which I enjoy and which covers my bills and then some. I still enjoy the pipe dream of retiring at forty and subsisting on what my eXcessica products give me. But I'm not planning on it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

How many rich writers can you name?

I dont know, but I imagine the grand total of all rich writers is a lot less than the number of people who play NFL football or major league baseball.

 

[Liar]

Ami: The journalists I've known have said similar things. It's a great job, gets you out in the open air periodically, and you can feel like you're doing something for the world, but it rarely pays handsomely, if ever. You're really working for your living as a reporter. It's the psychic benefits that are the cushion on that job and those may well be enough.

It pays decently. But not handsomely. It's a living, I make the same as an avarage offce drone. But I have more fun doing it, it feeds my vanity to have my name in the byline of printed articles on glossy paper, and I set my own hours.

All in all, it could suck more.

 

[CharleyH]

Bah, you get to write much more fun stuff than me.

Here's what I'm approx. paid (in $ for your convenience)

$1200 for 20k characters (exclusive incl copyright) - takes at least a full work week of research/interviews and stuff
$600 for 5-10k (exclusive incl copyright)
$20 for random news blog crap. (non exclusive)

Like john said, the more interresting question is, how much do you get per hour, when you add up writing, editing, nessecary research and paperwork needed to get paid (sending bills, and such)?

And whatever percentage of that which you're paid that fucks off in taxes. I'd assume it's higher here than o'er there, so that's part of what shapes my pay level.

In a month, I usually manage to write two big and two small articles, plus a blog thing every workday.

So, $4000/month, give or take. 22 workdays/month, 8 hours/day, that makes $22.7/hour. Before Swedish sales taxes and business taxes. (self employed) Compared to an employed worker's salary before taxes, I make about 15 bux. Doesn't suck, for a job that's actually usually pretty fun.

Doesn't suck at all. I can see that creating a guide for the innocent is a difficult endeavour. It's too bad really. I think the responses here are fabulous and I get a lot out of them. I hope others do as well.

 

[CharleyH]

The going rate for a piece of porn (~5K words) is about $25 in my experience, if you can find the market.

I sold an 12K word story to Harlequin Spice and they paid me $675, so that's about $0.06/word. That's the best I've ever done.

The books I've had with Ellora's Cave, if you figure (first month's royalties)/(# of words) come out to be in the ~4-5 cents a word neighborhood.

Writing for me is such an episodic and idiosyncratic occupation that I really can't say how much I make an hour, but that's kind of irrelevant. It's an obsession, not a career move.

Jesus! That's cheap for stories, IMO, but I suppose it's the price you get for publishing and publishing is GOOD. I would love to have my name on a hardcover, or soft one for that matter.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I see the profit gained from my writing (not much) as a bonus. I don't want to write for profit, because that implies that I'd want to cater to the hot topics. Checking out what's selling on Fictionwise, if I only wanted to make money, I'd pen a novel about gay incestuous vampires. But I detest vampire fiction...

I find that last really amusing.

On FW, though, the incest thing isn't the big seller...but you're right about gay vampires... or werewolves... but they have to have lots of menage and group sex, and some sort of exclusionary relationship with a happy feel-good ending...

 

[slyc_willie]

I find that last really amusing.

I know you do. So does she.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I know you do. So does she.

[threadjack]

FWIW, I'm with you. For me, vampire and werewolf fiction are so overcooked I can't swallow them anymore. Back when it was new - back when Anne Rice's "Interview" FIRST came out - I was interested. But now? Ugh. It's all the same thing, over and over...

I'm tired of namby-pamby vampires and werewolves. Where's the blood? Where's the danger? Doesn't anyone DIE??

Twilight's gotta be the epitome of "safe" vampire fiction. It made me crazy to read it (and I read it only because the kids were reading it and I wanted to know what the fuss was about...) and if I could purge that woman's stamp on the literary genre, I'd do it in a heartbeat...

but, ya know, I don't feel strongly about vampire fiction or anything.

[/threadjack]