Liberals in Panic!

[amicus]

Less than two weeks since the Messiah arose but a full two years of Pelosi and the gang running Congress, and it becomes more and more obvious that the country is going to hell in a handbasket. (just to play with words)

And I swear, (see me cross myself), that the plot resembles the Ayn Rand novel, Atlas Shrugged, as a frantic government threatens to jail corporate leaders, cap their wages and nationalize both business and industry.

The answers coming from on high? Raise taxes, redistribute income and increase the already burdensome regulations of the financial and business community.

I mean, who could ask for anything more?

Although a few can see and even speak of the relationship of Federal Housing Institutions, you know which I mean, the connection to the banking system and the real estate industry, no one dare point a finger and jail those really guilty.(Congress)

Just as in Atlas Shrugged, another remedy to job loss is, "Buy America!", high tariff's and buy only Union Made products.

"Bring back the time when American Manufacturers sold goods to American citizens and everything was fine!"

In a pig's eye!

Just as western nations moved from the agricultural age to the industrial age and is now moving into the information age, the old manufacturing centers will never re-emerge from the past and Unions are a thing of the past. Detroit is done.

Art, Literature, becomes reality, in a really weird way, except it is without John Galt and Hank Rearden.

Amicus...

 

[Huckleman2000]

I gotta give you points for imagination, I guess.

 

[amicus]

Well, thanks, but can't claim most of it. Was the center of discussion, all except the Rand bit, on CNN tonight, even old Gergen raised a sweat as they discussed the future. Glum.

Amicus...

 

[Guest]

We're in panic? Really?

Dang.

I guess someone should have let us know.

And here I've been wallowing in blessed calm, a well-fed cat smile on my face as I watch our new president get down to serious and positive business.

Poor ami.

 

[slyc_willie]

It doesn't take much intelligence or common sense to see that the economy, our national self image, and our international reputation are going to require more than Obama's four or eight years (and I'm betting on eight) to turn around. I do like his veiled return to a sort of Reagonomics, however.

I am with you whole-heartedly on one note, Ami: Unions are (and damn well should be) dead. Few things have been more destructive to internal American commerce than unions.

 

[amicus]

Let me help you out of that wallow, miss Piggy, for tis drying up fast.

"Green Jobs!" A solution they say, to nine percent unemployment in Caleefornia, but no one will admit that 'green' jobs only produce higher cost utilities and barely nudge the requirements for the energy to run industry.

"Billions for Education!" They say...ya know what? All for teachers salaries, nuthin fer da kids...well, I take that back, in Detroit, or Chicago, I think I heard tonight, they pay kids for making A's B's & C's, a straight A student can earn $4,000 a school year. Such a deal...bribing kids to learn. (thas the only way they can keep them from dropping out)

And you think things are all rosy? Maybe an Al Quaida terrorist in a prison near you would put a cherry on top?

Egads, girl.

Ami

 

[Guest]

Let me help you out of that wallow, miss Piggy, for tis drying up fast.

"Green Jobs!" A solution they say, to nine percent unemployment in Caleefornia, but no one will admit that 'green' jobs only produce higher cost utilities and barely nudge the requirements for the energy to run industry.

"Billions for Education!" They say...ya know what? All for teachers salaries, nuthin fer da kids...well, I take that back, in Detroit, or Chicago, I think I heard tonight, they pay kids for making A's B's & C's, a straight A student can earn $4,000 a school year. Such a deal...bribing kids to learn. (thas the only way they can keep them from dropping out)

And you think things are all rosy? Maybe an Al Quaida terrorist in a prison near you would put a cherry on top?

Egads, girl.

Ami

Dear man.

I've been in a panic for the last eight years. All the while you simpered and boasted of the marvelousness of the folks in power.

Things are not rosy. Not by a long shot.

Your boy fucked a great many things up during his time.

But he's gone.

Things are better. Wait and see.

 

[slyc_willie]

Things are better. Wait and see.

Which is the main point.

No one can turn an economy around as quickly as people want. No one can promise a return to the days of a balanced budget and low unemployment overnight. The smart people see that.

But there are people I work with who really see Obama as a messianic figure, and I just want to slap them.

Good for you for being optimistic. I am, too. I voted for the guy, and because I believed in his campaign. But I am by no means deluded in thinking Obama's administration will fix all that has been fouled up since 2000.

Sometimes, though, progress isn't as important as the perception of progress. That's why Obama has been signing the laws he has. Winning over the people, giving us a few crumbs and handshakes to keep us happy until the big payoff. That's not a criticism; that's politics.

Thing is, I think the big payoff will come . . . just not for a while.

 

[amicus]

Sweets, Slyc, not that I want to be a spoil sport, but the policies enunciated by this administration are doomed to failure on pure and simple economic reasons.

Trying to rebuild the antiquaited Industrial base to satisfy high paid Union workers, pay twice as much for raw steel and automobiles than imported goods, will simply bankrupt the country even more.

Raising Corporate taxes will drive industry out of the country even more and nationalizing the banking and financial sector will lead to even more of the kind of corruption exposed in Fannie and Freddie, all going to line the pockets of politicians and their toadies in the business sector.

Investing billions in infrastructure repairs, with Union labor only, always the, 'gotcha' on government projects, will simply exacerbate the problem.

There is no 'stimulus package' evident, instead it is a Keynsian inspired spending program enlarging the deficit and the national debt.

You can wait and see as long as you live for the improvement you dream of and just like the five year plans of the defunct Soviets, it will never, ever come about.

A 'Tax Holiday', for perhaps two years, no withholding taxes for income tax, social security and medicare taxes, would be a logical and quick and efficient means of jump-starting the economy. Lowering Corporate and Business taxes would enable the business community to begin hiring and producing goods and services once again.

The housing crisis will not solve itself as toxic mortgages are now held by the banks and you know the agencies responsible for the sup par loans.

As I implied earlier, imposing more rules on business and industry and raising the already high taxes will just force those companies and the investing public to move offshore to more welcoming tax codes and cheaper labor.

I take the time to lay this out, not expecting agreement or even understanding, but just so that as it all comes to pass, it won't knock ur socks off.

Amicus...

 

[slyc_willie]

I take the time to lay this out, not expecting agreement or even understanding, but just so that as it all comes to pass, it won't knock ur socks off.

Amicus...

I figure the reality will be somewhere in the middle. Some corporations will continue to outsource, and may even increase doing so, in coming years. But they will eventually fall to political and popular pressure. An equilibrium will result with the American public once more choosing not to see the dirty side of economics, just as those who eat veal chose not to think about baby cows being slaughtered. There will be enough goodwill gestures to appease both Obama's critics and his supporters.

All in all, not much in practice will change, just in the perception of such. But I think there will be more than a few improvements as regards foreign policy. Numerous countries are already breathing sighs of relief at Obama's inauguration, with several having already begun to deal with him before he even took office. The perception of his administration has already had an impact, which can be cultivated to economic returns for the US from outside the country.

 

[amicus]

I don't disagree just to be disagreeable, Slyc, but I just see no evidence of your examples. In fact, I see just the opposite. There are still 140,000 US troops in Iraq and a build-up going on in Afghanistan. None of the coalition nations want the terrorist prisoners at Guantanamo in their countries and the administration is already looking for ways to cut military and defense spending, starting with weapons programs according to the news I heard today.

A weaker military posture by the United States will attract increased terrorist activities world wide as US forces are reduced and our ability to counter strikes in the world is degraded.

Thus, I see no evidence that any of your visions are based on anything more than European socialist, 'good will', towards a more liberal administration.

While you may not consider the presence of a hundred military bases around the world, all exerting pressure for Democratic reforms and providing a jumping off base to combat incursions by predator nations, I think a little more consideration might be given to reducing those forces.

International peace and cooperation is a fragile entity and I fear the US, via this administration will pull back into a quasi isolationism and create a power vacuum in international affairs that will lead to wider conflicts in the East and Middle east where Muslim influene is great.

I am not the first to compare the Islamic Militants with the situation in the world in the 1930's with the rise of Nazi Germany and Soviet Communism. Without the United States maintaining a strong military presence, it might well burst forth upon people everywhere.

Thus, in my opinion, and others, both the domestic and foreign policies expressed thus far, will lead to utter disaster.

Amicus...

 

[DeeZire]

I don't disagree just to be disagreeable, Slyc, but I just see no evidence of your examples. In fact, I see just the opposite...

Ami - you see what you want to see. Even though your free market ideals laid the foundation for the crashed economy, you see it differently. I admire your tunnel vision. It takes a lot of guts to keep waving the free market flag at this time in our nation's history. Good luck with that.

 

[amicus]

Well, thanks, Deezire, that may have been the nicest thing you have ever addressed to me.

Of course, I beg to differ. It is not 'tunnel vision' I express in my posts, rather a recognition that a free market reflects those human values that all rational people respect and admire.

People throughout the ages have been oppressed and their humanity abrogated by just about every form of government one can find in the history books from tribal to monarchy, to socialism and fascism.

The very closest civilization has approached true human dignity and individual freedom is through a free market and representational form of government.

That grand experiment that began when the Colony declared Independence and changed the form of government from a dictatorial King to a representational republic has been greatly weakened since its inception and may be irretrievably lost to communal thinking that has always been on the fringes.

I think there are enough of us left that will use force to defend the basic values of this nation that it will not collapse with a whimper but rebel with a bang...a very large and personal bang.

Amicus...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

Time will tell the story, of course, but all the smarties forget the obvious solution to all economic problems: Produce stuff people want at a price they can afford to pay. Stop producing stuff people dont want.

Capone made the point himself during the Depression.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I think there are enough of us left that will use force to defend the basic values of this nation that it will not collapse with a whimper but rebel with a bang...a very large and personal bang.

Amicus...

What'll happen is they'll send a Predator unmanned drone over to blow you to kingdom come and your rebellion will come to an ignoble and most likely unobserved (by the public at large) end.

 

[DesertPirate]

This so called "stimulus" bill is nothing but a SPENDING bill. I hope they highlight every single item and ask:
1. How will this stimulate the economy?
2. When will it stimulate the economy?
3. How many jobs will it create?
4. When will it create those jobs?
If the answer to any question is no, or not this year, it is pure waste!

You will find that 2/3 of this bill can be eliminated right there. It's simply pork. $400 million to study STDs? That will create jobs? $170 million for global warming (avg world temp droped 1.3 degrees last year)? Just a bunch of Dems on a spending spree as usual.

You can even tell it close to Groundhog day. Gore stuck his furry little butt up and yelled "Global Warming/Climate Change" like he has done every year at this time since 2003. Of course a quarter of the country was getting hammered by ice and snow.

 

[off2bed]

What irony there is in this Messiah thing, as so many outspoken Democrats are such fundamentalist evangelical atheists. But they'll probably trot out the idea that since the real Messiah was despised, crucified, and judged, their new one is just as misunderstood and feared.

Too bad they're wrong. We understand perfectly what he is.

 

[cloudy]

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/1.gif

 

[Guest]

This so called "stimulus" bill is nothing but a SPENDING bill. I hope they highlight every single item and ask:
1. How will this stimulate the economy?
2. When will it stimulate the economy?
3. How many jobs will it create?
4. When will it create those jobs?
If the answer to any question is no, or not this year, it is pure waste!

You will find that 2/3 of this bill can be eliminated right there. It's simply pork. $400 million to study STDs? That will create jobs? $170 million for global warming (avg world temp droped 1.3 degrees last year)? Just a bunch of Dems on a spending spree as usual.

You can even tell it close to Groundhog day. Gore stuck his furry little butt up and yelled "Global Warming/Climate Change" like he has done every year at this time since 2003. Of course a quarter of the country was getting hammered by ice and snow.

Why can't you wait and see?

I did not vote for the Shrub but I did give him the benefit of the doubt for a couple of years at the beginning of his first term. Not after that, of course, when his lack of direction was quite evident.

Obama's been president for what - 12 days? Jesus.

Isn't it just a bit silly of you to expect perfectionistic miracles? (Even from the Messiah?)

 

[DesertPirate]

Why can't you wait and see?

I did not vote for the Shrub but I did give him the benefit of the doubt for a couple of years at the beginning of his first term. Not after that, of course, when his lack of direction was quite evident.

Obama's been president for what - 12 days? Jesus.

Isn't it just a bit silly of you to expect perfectionistic miracles? (Even from the Messiah?)

I'm looking at the $800 million pork bill that Pelosi and friends produced. It needs to be cut or destroyed in the Senate. That bill will cost your grandkids $3500 a year for their lifespan and do very little to "stimulate" the economy.
Whatever your Messiah does, it's still the same "Thundering Herd of Dumbass" in Congress that wants to spend, spend, spend. Everyone of them needs to smacked with a clue bat.

 

[Guest]

I'm looking at the $800 million pork bill that Pelosi and friends produced. It needs to be cut or destroyed in the Senate. That bill will cost your grandkids $3500 a year for their lifespan and do very little to "stimulate" the economy.
Whatever your Messiah does, it's still the same "Thundering Herd of Dumbass" in Congress that wants to spend, spend, spend. Everyone of them needs to smacked with a clue bat.

*sigh*

Never mind.

And he's not my Messiah.

 

[cloudy]

*sigh*

Never mind.

And he's not my Messiah.

You're much too nice a person, I think. He and the usual suspects will continue to whine and moan for the next four years, no matter what President Obama does.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

Can't really see why the liberals would be in a panic. They have control of the US at the moment (although fixing that economy is going to be a bitch).

Rather than gripe and moan about it the right needs to produce someone who actually understands what free market capitalism is rather than the collection of robber barons that stuffed the country up the last time round.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

HYDRA

The problem for the Democrats is the public perception and belief that theyre using the economic Depression for financial gain.

If the stimulus money ends up in the pockets of union bosses, teachers, trial lawyers, art galleries, abortion clinics, and adds more IRS agents, people are gonna know what the deal is.

Obama's problem is looking like STEPEN FETCHIT OR UNCLE TOM. He's already trying to get money for ACORN.

 

[amicus]

Even as I type the 'Messiah', is preaching to the faithful that it will take, "years". to 'fix' the economy, in the weekly Saturday word from on high.

Cut ten percent from the Defense Budget, but allocate funds for Abortion overseas and 'studies' on STD's, that make a lot of sense to anyone?

These attempts to 'tweak' the economy, Keynesian style have been shown to be abject failures in all previous attempts.

And, the hypocrisy continues with 'no lobbyists in my administration', political rhetoric only as lobbyists populate the new cabinet. And the jerks in the administration who somehow forgot to pay their income taxes for four years and more, just an oversight, eh? Sure...I got a bridge to sell you...(one that goes nowhere, by the way)

And all the 'usual suspects' here, (thas my term and I'm stickin' to it!)" are on their knees apologizing and saying the last eight years will take a long time to recover from, yeah, sure, apologize away and refuse to acknowledge the slide into socialism.

Recovery and employment could improve within days with an immediate reduction in confiscatory tax rates for both individuals and business at all levels. The stock market would make a thousand point jump and reassure investors that 'profit' is not a dirty word, but a return on invested capital, which in fact it is.

Thus the 'doom and gloom' and glum aspect for the future is a product of a democrat congress for the last two years that continues with the rhetoric coming out of the nation's capitol.

I'm picking the Cinderella, 'underdog' Cardinals, looking forwards to Mondays and "24" and anxious for the new NASCAR season to begin in two weeks, Jack kicks ass and Edwards and Logano are gonna run over people...doncha jus love it!

Amicus...) (...you are now free to smile across the country)