As Role Model, Obama Could Reverse Ghetto Culture

[Wildcard Ky]

Excellent article here. I hope this is exactly what happens.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/01/as_role_model_obama_could_reve.html

 

[amicus]

I should most likely decline to comment here, for reasons obvious to the 'usual suspects', however...

An optimistic piece, accurately describing the situation, but counting on 'role model' to change a culture?

Would take an act of the God I don't believe in, pure magic or voodoo, and...it ain't gonna happen.

More likely scenario is one where the black community is given even more 'affirmative action', offered even more, 'sub par loans', given more grants for colleges and Universities and even greater welfare than already exists.

When that becomes clear, can the Second Civil War, be far behind?

There are a great many who dislike the 'hip hop' black culture and all the inroads that culture has made into traditional American morality and values.

Yeah, I know, another prediction with no possibility of coming true.

I seem to be good at that.

Amicus...

 

[Guest]

The world, she is a-changing, ami.

It'll be okay.

 

[amicus]

Gosh almighty, sweets, right out of the Dylan era of, 'blowing in the wind...'. But, I won't argue against change, but this is the high point of the left; it is all downhill from here.



ami

 

[cloudy]

Gosh almighty, sweets, right out of the Dylan era of, 'blowing in the wind...'. But, I won't argue against change, but his is the high point of the left; it is all downhill from here.



ami

It's alright, ami. I promise the brown folks won't treat y'all worse than y'all treated us.

 

[amicus]

Aw, shucks, Cloudy, Iron Maiden, I have a young squaw looking after a piece of land in Wyoming in my absence...she seems quite content?



ami

 

[cloudy]

Aw, shucks, Cloudy, Iron Maiden, I have a young squaw looking after a piece of land in Wyoming in my absence...she seems quite content?



ami

Do not EVER use that word to me again.

 

[amicus]

No offense intended Cloudy...I happen to have "The Outlaw Josie Wales" playing in the background, with Chief Dan George, I think I saw in the credits, and it is a delightful comedic role he plays, along with the Cheyenne, ahm, female, truly enjoy that film for several reasons...

truce?

(but no signing of treaties)

ami

 

[TheeGoatPig]

My whole problem with this (besides the incessant arguing of both sides over it) is that ghetto culture isn't so much a race issue (there are plenty of Hispanic and white people in the ghetto), as it is a poor neighborhood issue. Will having a black president help? Sure. Some people will get the picture and realize that anyone can be anything, and try harder to get the hell out of the ghetto and become a helpful member of society. But there will always be the negative influences right there in the every day of the ghetto, glamorizing crime, violence, and petty behavior.

It will take a lot more than one or even ten positive role models to turn the ghetto around. It's really sad, but unfortunately that is the way things appear to me.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Do not EVER use that word to me again.

Jiminy Cricket wanted me to pass along this message to you;

Do not engage the miserable troll, cloudy... Do not engage the miserable troll.

 

[Elianna]

My whole problem with this (besides the incessant arguing of both sides over it) is that ghetto culture isn't so much a race issue (there are plenty of Hispanic and white people in the ghetto), as it is a poor neighborhood issue. Will having a black president help? Sure. Some people will get the picture and realize that anyone can be anything, and try harder to get the hell out of the ghetto and become a helpful member of society. But there will always be the negative influences right there in the every day of the ghetto, glamorizing crime, violence, and petty behavior.

It will take a lot more than one or even ten positive role models to turn the ghetto around. It's really sad, but unfortunately that is the way things appear to me.

I was going to say something similar, Thee. I would hope that some kids living in poverty would see Obama and realize that maybe their "ghetto" culture isn't getting them far. I think this might really help African Americans because they feel he can relate to them in a way a white President could not.

However, poverty begets poverty. Ghetto behavior is a survival instict. In the Southwest, the gangs and poverty in many of the Latino neighborhoods parallel the Black gangs and neighborhoods. They are both in poverty. The kids in those situations get in trouble at school. They struggle in school. They get caught up in violence. Poverty causes desperation, violence, disregard. How could it not?

So many people are experiencing a taste of the desperation of poverty right now. They are losing their homes and their jobs. Imagine never having a home and never keeping a steady job. Imagine how that desperation affects you. I don't claim to have the solution, but I think it starts by getting people in poverty hope and opportunity to overcome.

JMHO

 

[Liar]

Good points, Thee and Eliana. I was gonna say that the only really substantial thing he can do to reduce ghetto-ism, is to reduce poverty. With unsexy things like job growth, education, health care and stuff. Compared to that, the color of his skin will be highly marginal.

 

[JagFarlane]

Good points, Thee and Eliana. I was gonna say that the only really substantial thing he can do to reduce ghetto-ism, is to reduce poverty. With unsexy things like job growth, education, health care and stuff. Compared to that, the color of his skin will be highly marginal.

And those are actually the things he talked about when, I want to say it was Rev Al Sharpton, inquired to him what he was going to do to assist the black community.

Anyways, for a reality check for people...I'd suggest watching the the movie "Crash". It really is an amazing movie that does lay bare quite a bit of reality in the world. The surprising little fact for the movie, is that it only cost $6.5mil even though it included Brenden Fraser, Sandra Bullock, "Ludacris", Ryan Phillipe, and Terrance Howard.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that ghetto is automatically poor. For a whole lot of people, ghetto and gangs are a choice. They choose this lifestyle. Look at how many of the gangsta rappers were millionaires, but chose to go on with the ghetto lifestyle and get themselves killed in the process.

To say that eliminating poverty is the answer to ghetto and gangster mentality is way too simplistic.

The author of the column that I linked is a black woman raised in a black neighborhood. She said that she was accused of acting white. If it was simply an economic issue, why did she make it out? How did the son of immigrants living in the Bronx go on to become Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of State? How did a guy from a broken home become President?

I for one am tired of seeing ghetto types and gang bangers on TV that speak so poorly that they literally have to be subtitled.

With all of the admiration that people have for Obama, I truly hope he becomes the role model that this column mentions. He is in a better position than anyone ever has been in modern history to do this.

 

[Elianna]

I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that ghetto is automatically poor. For a whole lot of people, ghetto and gangs are a choice. They choose this lifestyle. Look at how many of the gangsta rappers were millionaires, but chose to go on with the ghetto lifestyle and get themselves killed in the process.

To say that eliminating poverty is the answer to ghetto and gangster mentality is way too simplistic.

The author of the column that I linked is a black woman raised in a black neighborhood. She said that she was accused of acting white. If it was simply an economic issue, why did she make it out? How did the son of immigrants living in the Bronx go on to become Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of State? How did a guy from a broken home become President?

I for one am tired of seeing ghetto types and gang bangers on TV that speak so poorly that they literally have to be subtitled.

With all of the admiration that people have for Obama, I truly hope he becomes the role model that this column mentions. He is in a better position than anyone ever has been in modern history to do this.

The examples you pointed out are the exceptions of the rule. I'm sure that you could find a study about poverty and see the actual number of how many people born in poverty actually make it out. I would say it's less than 10%.

I guess I have a different perspective on poverty because I work with it on a daily basis. The gangs can be a choice, yes. However, there is no doubt that people in poverty live with more violence. Their violence is born from desperation, disfunctionality, pain. Most violence, actually, can be attributed to such things. You tend to have more of those negative influences in your life in poverty, along with hopelessness.

 

[JagFarlane]

I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that ghetto is automatically poor. For a whole lot of people, ghetto and gangs are a choice. They choose this lifestyle. Look at how many of the gangsta rappers were millionaires, but chose to go on with the ghetto lifestyle and get themselves killed in the process.

To say that eliminating poverty is the answer to ghetto and gangster mentality is way too simplistic.

The author of the column that I linked is a black woman raised in a black neighborhood. She said that she was accused of acting white. If it was simply an economic issue, why did she make it out? How did the son of immigrants living in the Bronx go on to become Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of State? How did a guy from a broken home become President?

I for one am tired of seeing ghetto types and gang bangers on TV that speak so poorly that they literally have to be subtitled.

With all of the admiration that people have for Obama, I truly hope he becomes the role model that this column mentions. He is in a better position than anyone ever has been in modern history to do this.

Yes and no...tell me how many teenage males really pay attention to the President, that aren't already top students in school? Not too many...

To tell the truth, I would think someone who would be in a better position would be someone like recently retired Indianapolis Colts head coach Tony Dungy. The man is brilliant, almost a shoe-in for the NFL Hall of Fame, and retired this year to pursue his dream of helping out less fortunate African Americans.
Football coachs can be role-models for these kids, they actually pay attention to them. Politicians, quite often, kids won't care.
If you want to kill the culture, you have to look at who these kids idolize. They idolize rappers, as these people outwardly, and openly promote that they came from an area of violence to rise up and become millionaires. And yet, even they resort to violence at times, which just embeds that thought in mind.
The culture is rough, and it could take decades to slowly change it. Obama may be a start, but truthfully its changing an entire cultures mindset. There are black CEO's, black sports stars, black politicians, I could go on, millions of black people whom work hard in respectable positions. Hell, in the area I worked, I was privileged to work with some hard working, highly intelligent black people, operating nuclear reactors.
Yeah, I'm rambling, but I just feel too many people think that this will change everything, and it won't. But its a start. Now if we could just counteract ALL of the racism, that would be great...but there are too many people whom revel in it. Even going so far as to sling racist words at a member of the military, on the 4th of July, as they headed to work, right in front of little kids. And the only thing that person did wrong...was he was white...

 

[Carnevil9]

I kind of agree with the premise here. The way I see it, the ONLY good that can come out of the Obama presidency is that young black kids can look at him and say, "Hey, maybe I DON'T have to be a drug dealer or an NBA star to get ahead!"

Let's hope that does happen, and it counteracts all the socialist bullshit he will inflict on us.....Carney

 

[Liar]

Let's hope that does happen, and it counteracts all the socialist bullshit he will inflict on us.....Carney

You obviously wouldn't know socialism if it tied you to a christmas tree and stomped you in the nuts.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

The obvious question is: Do white role models influence trailer park trash?

Nope!

Something quite different is at work. People seek the environment they prefer.

But! We'll wait and see what happens. The Usual Suspects cant yet stop the passage of time, and if things are the same 4 years from now, we'll know Obama aint THE MAGIC NEGRO God promised the world.

 

[Safe_Bet]

... poverty begets poverty. Ghetto behavior is a survival instict. In the Southwest, the gangs and poverty in many of the Latino neighborhoods parallel the Black gangs and neighborhoods. They are both in poverty. The kids in those situations get in trouble at school. They struggle in school. They get caught up in violence. Poverty causes desperation, violence, disregard. How could it not?
...

One the nose Eli. Bloods and Crips? Hell, they are almost middle class now days. The scary gangs are all Hispanic. What makes them so dangerous is that they not only utilize the desperation of poverty/class envy, but add in the machismo aspect. Dad was a gang banger and he AND mom are proud that Junior is a "Man" too. They also have an even lower regard for human life than the black gangs ever did. MS-13 is a fine example of that. The problem with this is that NONE of the Hispanic gang members identify with Obama any more than they did with GW.

I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that ghetto is automatically poor. For a whole lot of people, ghetto and gangs are a choice. They choose this lifestyle. Look at how many of the gangsta rappers were millionaires, but chose to go on with the ghetto lifestyle and get themselves killed in the process.

When you are a millionaire you get to choose. If you are a poor kid who sees that the pimp and the pusher are the only ones who have "Air Jordans" (and don't have to survive by having two minimum wage jobs) than the choices are a damn sight fewer.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SAFE BET

Nonsensical stereotypes.

Kids are exposed to all kinds of people, and they know how to get from point A to point B.

The truth is fruits & nuts dont fall far from the tree. If youre a trailer trash meth addict, youre kid will likely be the same.

Read some of Eric Berne's writings about the scripts people live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis

 

[voluptuary_manque]

People still continue with this silly obsession with 'race', whatever that might be. Horseshit! The question of ghetto is a culture of class. Class divides Hispanics, Afro-Americans, whites and everyone else. What we have finally degenerated to is the old Marxian pseudo-thought that class is what defines you and that you should be proud of being a member of the lumpenproletariat. That's what ghetto culture is, pride of stupidity. Obama has no identification with that. He was raised by his white grandparents in a middle class Hawaiian neighborhood and married a woman from the black middle class. The ghetto does not connect with him because he believes in (gasp) study and hard work. From the underclass's viewpoint, he's white. They just don't get it. He's smart and ambitious and he works hard. That's the difference.

 

[off2bed]

Bill Cosby couldn't do it either.

 

[midwestyankee]

Bill Cosby couldn't do it either.

The difference here is that Bill Cosby is just another black entertainer. Since the middle of the last century black entertainers have been common among Hollywood and television stardom. And that was an outgrowth of a long history of black entertainers so the entertainment business has long been seen as a possible route out of poverty and the extra layers of discrimination that are laid down on the black poor. Sports is the other well-known route out of poverty for blacks.

Politics and business have simply not been seen as viable routes out of poverty - at least not so widely as sports and entertainment. Black business leaders are few and relatively invisible. Black politicians get more attention but until Obama's generation most of them traded on their race to get elected. Most of them have been elected primarily by black constituencies - which is why there have always been more blacks in the House than in the Senate and why there have been more black mayors than governors.

The difference with Obama, then, is that he represents a new kind of very visible successful black man. He's not the first black politician to operate outside the identity politics of Al Sharpton and his predecessors, but he's by far the most successful and the most visible.

The roots of Obama's success - study and hard work - will filter down to the young black poor through their teachers and their parents. His example will inspire the most inspirable at first of course. But then their success will spread to others. Eventually there could be an exponential growth pattern among young poor blacks.

Will Obama's rise to the presidency end poverty all by itself? Of course not, but to insist that there will be no effect on young black kids simply because there won't be a total effect is disingenuous and it reeks of an unworthy disregard for the lives of other Americans.

 

[Guest]

The difference here is that Bill Cosby is just another black entertainer. Since the middle of the last century black entertainers have been common among Hollywood and television stardom. And that was an outgrowth of a long history of black entertainers so the entertainment business has long been seen as a possible route out of poverty and the extra layers of discrimination that are laid down on the black poor. Sports is the other well-known route out of poverty for blacks.

Politics and business have simply not been seen as viable routes out of poverty - at least not so widely as sports and entertainment. Black business leaders are few and relatively invisible. Black politicians get more attention but until Obama's generation most of them traded on their race to get elected. Most of them have been elected primarily by black constituencies - which is why there have always been more blacks in the House than in the Senate and why there have been more black mayors than governors.

The difference with Obama, then, is that he represents a new kind of very visible successful black man. He's not the first black politician to operate outside the identity politics of Al Sharpton and his predecessors, but he's by far the most successful and the most visible.

The roots of Obama's success - study and hard work - will filter down to the young black poor through their teachers and their parents. His example will inspire the most inspirable at first of course. But then their success will spread to others. Eventually there could be an exponential growth pattern among young poor blacks.

Will Obama's rise to the presidency end poverty all by itself? Of course not, but to insist that there will be no effect on young black kids simply because there won't be a total effect is disingenuous and it reeks of an unworthy disregard for the lives of other Americans.

Very well put.

This is the same sort of "sour grapes" crap that we're going to have to hear for awhile, I guess.

You know:

Yeah, he has some good ideas, but he's not the Messiah! You people are going to be so disappointed when you find out he's not perfect!

Yeah, he will be a good role model, but it won't work for everyone. You people are going to be so disappointed when you find out he's not perfect!

Yeah, he's already begun to do the things he said he would do, but it isn't happening overnight! You people are going to be so disappointed when you find out he's not perfect!

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. You people are going to be so disappointed when you find out he's not perfect!



To those naysaying folks? He's not perfect. We know. We get it. We got it long before you did, I might add.

Change is difficult and sometimes frightening. We'll remain patient with you until you can cope.