Self moderation in Pro BDSM

[working_girl]

I work as an escort and have been asked to do enough kinky stuff that I also advertise as a pro-switch. What I have got up to in that field though is really tame by the standards of a lot of stuff here. I know it's a different dynamic and environment because, even when I'm wielding the paddle, I'm still providing a service. I don't want to get in to a whole debate about that but I'm getting frustrated with my clients and they're really not bad guys. They'll beg to be used and swear they want to serve me and yet, even within agreed limits they become whiny babies and I have to keep toning things down. Similarly, when I bottom (which is very rare) I find it hard to renegotiate things without feeling that I'm spoiling the guy's experience. I've dished out checklists and discussed things beforehand till I'm blue in the face but it seems these guys don't want to submit at all. They want a fantasy scene that plays exactly as it does in their head and I'm really not very good at providing that. Are there other sexworkers here who have had similar issues or am I just handling this really badly?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[Netzach]

Welcome to the weird world of pro sm.

I didn't do "straight" so you have a wealth of things to draw on I didn't, but the short answer is "no." Most men interested in fetish and paying for it are what you're talking about - very self-centered about it, particularly if there's other sexual items on the menu. I rarely would meet the genuine article who was there to ride my thrill ride and not design his own and those are the people I worked with most closely and eventually exclusively.

If you're working with someone and you're getting frustrated and he's the kind of guy who will respond to a single insistent command and will snap to, you'll know it. There's a vibe. I could almost always tell when someone was testing a little, versus when someone was such a messed up communicator that he basically thought he'd get a titty show and a little paddle if he told me he wanted me to do "anything I wanted" and would be shocked to find out our ideas were divergent.

I have a suspicion that you may find more of them in the SM/no straight kind of world, not that I have anything against people who mix it up - simply because they're looking for that elusive power/psychological thing and so much so that they're almost completely disinterested in the erection or not question at the time of the session.

 

[satindesire]

I totally agree with Netz, and wanted to add a little tidbit of food for thought.

When you're escorting, you're still providing a SERVICE, no matter if you're Topping or Bottoming.

You don't usually walk into a salon, sit down in the hairdresser's chair and say "Do whatever you want!" because you are paying for a service and you want to get exactly what YOU want. It's your money, you know? And you usually don't waltz into a restaurant and sit down and say to the waiter "Bring me whatever!" (although I have heard of that happening, it's just not USUAL ) You came to get a certain sort of thing.

The wild world of the Pro girl is totally different in the BDSM aspect than in 'relationship' or even 'non-money' situations. When a client is paying for something, whether they're pyl or PYL, they're going to want to get what they expected and paid for.

These aren't really the 'real' Top/Bottom situations that you'd expect in non-money BDSM situation, it seems normal to think that they're paid-for fantasies and play acting.

 

[Netzach]

I will mention that the best haircuts I've ever gotten and the best wine pairings I've ever had were usually when I asked the opinions of the people I'm paying.

I know that's not always the case, and I know this works better at La Belle Vie than Joes wine and pasta hovel, but that is some food for thought.

 

[satindesire]

I will mention that the best haircuts I've ever gotten and the best wine pairings I've ever had were usually when I asked the opinions of the people I'm paying.

I know that's not always the case, and I know this works better at La Belle Vie than Joes wine and pasta hovel, but that is some food for thought.

Very true! However, asking someone's opinion and still having feedback and allowing someone else to do whatever with no direction from you at all are two entirely separate things. That was the point I was trying to get across. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[midwestyankee]

I will mention that the best haircuts I've ever gotten and the best wine pairings I've ever had were usually when I asked the opinions of the people I'm paying.

I know that's not always the case, and I know this works better at La Belle Vie than Joes wine and pasta hovel, but that is some food for thought.

I've found the same thing, in fact. My hair stylist (she's not a barber) does wonders with all seventeen hairs and I just let her do her thing.

Waiters in some restaurants (think national chains such as Chili's and Buca di Beppo) make suggestions that seem, to me, to reflect the possibility that they might get extra compensation for selling certain dishes. On the other hand, a waiter in a really good restaurant will almost always give you the straight skinny on tonight's specials, as will the waitress at your neighborhood diner ("Joe can't fry an egg to save his soul this morning. Have the oatmeal.")

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion of life in the pro world (of which I know absolutely nothing that I haven't learned over the intertubes from Netz).

 

[working_girl]

Oh believe me, I never forget I'm providing a service at all times but it does kind of undermine the whole thing for me. It's not like I'm some vicious uberdomme and they can't handle it, just that trying to get clear communication or direction out of these clients is nigh impossible - right up until the moment I derail their masturbatory fantasy train by one iota. Then they get sulky and reproachful (which I utterly detest) and it's all I can do not to wallop them into next week with cries of 'well why didn't you fucking tell me that before when I asked you then?'

I have to say that in non-BDSM scenarios my sexual telepathy is pretty good. I can usually tell what kind of experience a guy is after and what he does and doesn't enjoy without a great deal of verbal communication. With guys who want a kinkier experience however, it's like pulling teeth to get them to open up about what hopes/expectations they have. Then they have the audacity to be disappointed when I read them completely wrong. They fill out checklists and always have a safeword (just in case) so it's not as though I don't try my damnedest to deliver whatever it is they think they want.

Most men interested in fetish and paying for it are what you're talking about - very self-centered about it, particularly if there's other sexual items on the menu. I rarely would meet the genuine article who was there to ride my thrill ride and not design his own and those are the people I worked with most closely and eventually exclusively.

To be honest, on a personal level I lean more to the submissive end of the spectrum anyway. It's not that I shy from dominance or that I expect them to 'ride my thrill ride' or anything. I just wish they'd give me a break and some clear direction. I guess there's no way to change people like that. I've pointed out they'd get more bang for their buck if they helped me out a little when we discuss things but for some reason they think it'll spoil the experience. Then, when I fail to read their mind with clairvoyant accuracy, they get the hump and their experience is duly spoiled.

It's all a bit catch 22 and I realise that. Maybe there's just no 'right' way of doing this.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I know that when I first started being sexually submissive I found it really hard to talk freely about my fantasies. One of the earliest things Master used to do to torment me was to get me to ask for and even beg for what I really wanted. He wouldn't do anything much until I had obeyed him in this and it became a strong motivator for me. He didn't always do what I wanted but then, I was never seeking to direct or control things. It furnished him with information though and helped keep us on the same page.

If you see the same guys again and again perhaps you could set them homework? Get them to keep a fantasy diary via email or have them outline exactly what they'd most love you to do. It'll make them think more about that side of things.

When I first started submitting, I knew how I wanted to feel but I was very vague about what activities might make me feel that way or what level of pain I could handle. A lot of the time, unless the sub has tried it before, they genuinely don't know what to ask for. It's a bit unfair on the dominant party but I bet a lot of guys assume you've done this countless times before and have some magic formula that will get them off or something.

 

[working_girl]

I know that when I first started being sexually submissive I found it really hard to talk freely about my fantasies. One of the earliest things Master used to do to torment me was to get me to ask for and even beg for what I really wanted. He wouldn't do anything much until I had obeyed him in this and it became a strong motivator for me. He didn't always do what I wanted but then, I was never seeking to direct or control things. It furnished him with information though and helped keep us on the same page.

Sometimes this works but most often they just squirm. If I stall too long it can feel like I'm wasting their time or stalling. Since the creditcrunch guys are even more determined to get their money's worth.

If you see the same guys again and again perhaps you could set them homework? Get them to keep a fantasy diary via email or have them outline exactly what they'd most love you to do. It'll make them think more about that side of things.

This isn't a bad idea at all, I think I'll try it. Thanks.

When I first started submitting, I knew how I wanted to feel but I was very vague about what activities might make me feel that way or what level of pain I could handle. A lot of the time, unless the sub has tried it before, they genuinely don't know what to ask for. It's a bit unfair on the dominant party but I bet a lot of guys assume you've done this countless times before and have some magic formula that will get them off or something.

I think this is true. They think I know how to dominate, which I do in a lightish kind of way but that doesn't mean I know how to push their buttons.

 

[BiBunny]

I don't really have experience in the real-time world of pro domination, but I will say that the phenomenon you describe is why I almost always despise talking to a self-described "sub" on the phone. The conversation almost always goes something like this.

Him: "Well, I'm submissive."
Me: "Oh, really? Well, that's awesome! How 'bout you tell me a little bit about your interests?"
Him: "I wanna be dominated and/or humiliated."
Me: "Mmm, that's interesting. In what ways are you interested in being dominated and/or humiliated?"
Him: "I dunno. I just wanna do whatever you want."
Me: *Headdesk*

Obviously, there are thousands of ways to be dominated or humiliated. Equally obvious is that since they're paying for a service, we both know that they don't give a shit about what I want. God help you if you don't know what "dominated" or "humiliated" means for them, though.

You can always turn it around on the guys who like to be humiliated, though. If they start pouting because you're not doing it right, a good "Well, you're obviously too goddamned stupid to even communicate what you want, you pathetic fucking loser" will usually get the ball rolling in the right direction.

Other than that, I really don't know what to tell you. Most of the submissives I know in real life aren't like this, so I'm guessing it has something to do with being a paying customer or whatever. I figure those uncommunicative ones who want to have a temper tantrum when you're not doing it "right" really aren't submissive at all. They've just fetishized being the whiny bitch boys that they are in their everyday lives.

 

[working_girl]

Obviously, there are thousands of ways to be dominated or humiliated. Equally obvious is that since they're paying for a service, we both know that they don't give a shit about what I want. God help you if you don't know what "dominated" or "humiliated" means for them, though.

It generally means some specific fantasy they've been beating off to repeatedly. There are guys I go through the same routine with, no variation. It's what they want and it gets them off. There's no element of dominance at all really, more topping/bottoming. Tell them that though and they'll get all defensive about their 'submissiveness.' These guys just watch far too much bad BDSMesque porn.

You can always turn it around on the guys who like to be humiliated, though. If they start pouting because you're not doing it right, a good "Well, you're obviously too goddamned stupid to even communicate what you want, you pathetic fucking loser" will usually get the ball rolling in the right direction.

I've been sorely tempted. Maybe I should give this a try. Behind everything I do there's still an element of professionalism. Maybe I should squash it at times.

Other than that, I really don't know what to tell you. Most of the submissives I know in real life aren't like this, so I'm guessing it has something to do with being a paying customer or whatever. I figure those uncommunicative ones who want to have a temper tantrum when you're not doing it "right" really aren't submissive at all. They've just fetishized being the whiny bitch boys that they are in their everyday lives.

Yep.

 

[SinfulSailor]

A couple disclaimers: Obviously, I'm not a working girl. Or a "working" guy for that matter. And I never have been. And I've never had a long term relationship with a working girl. And, I've never hired a working girl.

What I am, is a businessman. And we're talking about business. And I have advised a lot of businesses. Successfully so, I might add. And I've had some friends who were working girls. And I've had a couple flings with working girls.

So here's an observation: Working girls seem to all (or at least often) (and it seems to me that's what the OP is talking about, at least in part) want to get their own personal sexual fulfillment (or at least some of it) in the course of their work. I've heard girls actually complain about john's premature ejaculation.

Well, from a biz pov.... if that happens, great. But that's not what it's all about for a business person. It's about business. If the customer wants a house designed that is a monstrosity, the architect just has to swallow it, smile and draw up a monstrosity. If the customer wants a traditional landscape and the artist is only moved by painting surrealistic, then the artist has to suck it up and smile and paint landscape. (Or live in an attic of course. Or maybe even in a doorway.)

It's always nice when we love and enjoy the task at hand. But in business, that's the exception rather than the rule. Where we can still draw pleasure and satisfaction is from the pride in our profession and the happiness we create for our customers.

For instance: My customer is happy every time he comes home and sees his (monstrous) house. My customer loved my (landscape) painting so much he hung it in his den so he could see it all the time. My customer found inner peace and serenity through my sex work.

And then there's always: I make people feel better for a living. I make people happy for a living. I provide an outlet for things that would cause a divorce so I save marriages for a living.

From a strictly business pov, I'd suggest a rethinking of personal expectations within the context of the business activities, and a personal refocusing of professional expectations keeping the above in mind.

 

[BiBunny]

See, I only do phone sex. It's not real-time stuff like the OP. But, for me, it's not about getting my own kicks. Believe me, I have more fun in real life than most of my bitchy-ass callers could ever imagine.

I DO, however, want enough information out of these guys to do my job well. And I would like enough professional courtesy from them that they don't get bitchy because I'm not a mind reader. I totally get where working_girl is coming from, although it is a different context for me.

You wouldn't go to an architect and say, "I want a house" and then refuse to answer any questions about what kind of house you wanted and then tell the architect, "Well, just build me whatever kind of house you want me to have" and then have the balls to get pissed off if the house didn't come out just like you thought it would in your mind, would you? Same principle.

Working_girl, I don't know if it'll help or not, but maybe you could possibly cater toward the sissy/feminization fetish guys? (If you can cater to any sort of fetish, that is.) The phone sissies and the ones I've played with in real life tend to be more communicative, as a rule, than most "I wanna be dominated" guys. A lot of times, they're just glad to have someone to talk to about the first time they wore panties and all the various women's clothing they've collected over the years without the girl going screaming into the night. It's easier for me to build rapport with guys like that and actually worm out of them what they're looking for.

 

[working_girl]

A couple disclaimers: Obviously, I'm not a working girl. Or a "working" guy for that matter. And I never have been. And I've never had a long term relationship with a working girl. And, I've never hired a working girl.

What I am, is a businessman. And we're talking about business. And I have advised a lot of businesses. Successfully so, I might add. And I've had some friends who were working girls. And I've had a couple flings with working girls.

So here's an observation: Working girls seem to all (or at least often) (and it seems to me that's what the OP is talking about, at least in part) want to get their own personal sexual fulfillment (or at least some of it) in the course of their work. I've heard girls actually complain about john's premature ejaculation.

Well, from a biz pov.... if that happens, great. But that's not what it's all about for a business person. It's about business. If the customer wants a house designed that is a monstrosity, the architect just has to swallow it, smile and draw up a monstrosity. If the customer wants a traditional landscape and the artist is only moved by painting surrealistic, then the artist has to suck it up and smile and paint landscape. (Or live in an attic of course. Or maybe even in a doorway.)

It's always nice when we love and enjoy the task at hand. But in business, that's the exception rather than the rule. Where we can still draw pleasure and satisfaction is from the pride in our profession and the happiness we create for our customers.

For instance: My customer is happy every time he comes home and sees his (monstrous) house. My customer loved my (landscape) painting so much he hung it in his den so he could see it all the time. My customer found inner peace and serenity through my sex work.

And then there's always: I make people feel better for a living. I make people happy for a living. I provide an outlet for things that would cause a divorce so I save marriages for a living.

From a strictly business pov, I'd suggest a rethinking of personal expectations within the context of the business activities, and a personal refocusing of professional expectations keeping the above in mind.

Thankyou for your comment.

I've been doing this for long enough that my 'personal expectations' are well on the back burner. I'm under no illusions about what sex as a business should involve. My problem is in fulfilling the hopes and expectations of my clients when they are so reluctant to open up or be specific.

 

[working_girl]

You wouldn't go to an architect and say, "I want a house" and then refuse to answer any questions about what kind of house you wanted and then tell the architect, "Well, just build me whatever kind of house you want me to have" and then have the balls to get pissed off if the house didn't come out just like you thought it would in your mind, would you? Same principle.

Exactly.

Working_girl, I don't know if it'll help or not, but maybe you could possibly cater toward the sissy/feminization fetish guys? (If you can cater to any sort of fetish, that is.) The phone sissies and the ones I've played with in real life tend to be more communicative, as a rule, than most "I wanna be dominated" guys. A lot of times, they're just glad to have someone to talk to about the first time they wore panties and all the various women's clothing they've collected over the years without the girl going screaming into the night. It's easier for me to build rapport with guys like that and actually worm out of them what they're looking for.

That's an interesting take on it. I haven't really divided up my more submissive clients into groups like that before. I suppose there are lots of types of submission.

 

[SinfulSailor]

Actually, I watched the movie, "Bugsy" a couple weeks ago. In it an architect was commissioned without specific instructions and he never could get specifics and the whole thing was changed repeatedly and the architect and builder were pretty much pulling out their hair in frustration.

I dunno. If you tell me the lack of instructions and the constant changes and the contradictions you get from customers are unique to the sex biz, I'm gonna have a hard time getting my arms around that idea. If you tell me you get a lot more of it in the sex biz than in other businesses, I'd find that much more plausible.

But I really don't think the basic concept/problem is unique to the sex biz. YMMV of course.

 

[Netzach]

A couple disclaimers: Obviously, I'm not a working girl. Or a "working" guy for that matter. And I never have been. And I've never had a long term relationship with a working girl. And, I've never hired a working girl.

What I am, is a businessman. And we're talking about business. And I have advised a lot of businesses. Successfully so, I might add. And I've had some friends who were working girls. And I've had a couple flings with working girls.

So here's an observation: Working girls seem to all (or at least often) (and it seems to me that's what the OP is talking about, at least in part) want to get their own personal sexual fulfillment (or at least some of it) in the course of their work. I've heard girls actually complain about john's premature ejaculation.

Well, from a biz pov.... if that happens, great. But that's not what it's all about for a business person. It's about business. If the customer wants a house designed that is a monstrosity, the architect just has to swallow it, smile and draw up a monstrosity. If the customer wants a traditional landscape and the artist is only moved by painting surrealistic, then the artist has to suck it up and smile and paint landscape. (Or live in an attic of course. Or maybe even in a doorway.)

It's always nice when we love and enjoy the task at hand. But in business, that's the exception rather than the rule. Where we can still draw pleasure and satisfaction is from the pride in our profession and the happiness we create for our customers.

For instance: My customer is happy every time he comes home and sees his (monstrous) house. My customer loved my (landscape) painting so much he hung it in his den so he could see it all the time. My customer found inner peace and serenity through my sex work.

And then there's always: I make people feel better for a living. I make people happy for a living. I provide an outlet for things that would cause a divorce so I save marriages for a living.

From a strictly business pov, I'd suggest a rethinking of personal expectations within the context of the business activities, and a personal refocusing of professional expectations keeping the above in mind.

That's great. If every client you had was THAT client and you hated your work, you'd be in business how long?

A fundamental lack of client communication like this would have most architects pitching you out to find a design-build or live in a box. This is a complaint about consumers who don't even know what role their participation is going to play in an optimum experience. Yes, one gets people like that in design (my job now) we call them "problem clients" and often they're not someone else's problem client, they have not met the right match.

Now imagine 9 out of 10 of your clients like this.

I'd also mention that sex and any other services-job are NOT analagous. I've sold every other thing under the sun besides my hairy mindfuckery, and they're not the same. Till you've been inside a small room with a naked man paying you, you don't know. I have been in shiny conference rooms pitching ideas and seedy little dungeons pitching ideas.

 

[Netzach]

Exactly.



That's an interesting take on it. I haven't really divided up my more submissive clients into groups like that before. I suppose there are lots of types of submission.

Do this. And yes, there are as many types of submission as there are people. You have the added issue of the fact that the guys you're seeing may be really new to the whole idea and turned off completely by all things "dungeony" - and may find the usual negotiations style offputting in hopes of something more organic.

And don't get too locked into stereotyping - people are going to defy your expectations. But find one thing that you think is fun and stick with it, figure out what those guys are into and BE it. For me, that was humiliation, mainly verbal, mainly psychological. Don't do something that doesn't rev your mental motor though, or you will burn out very fast on it - fetishists are monolithic sometimes. If you say you love having your feet licked, you'd better love it because that guy is going to do his foot thing every week for a decade.

 

[working_girl]

Do this. And yes, there are as many types of submission as there are people. You have the added issue of the fact that the guys you're seeing may be really new to the whole idea and turned off completely by all things "dungeony" - and may find the usual negotiations style offputting in hopes of something more organic.

And don't get too locked into stereotyping - people are going to defy your expectations. But find one thing that you think is fun and stick with it, figure out what those guys are into and BE it. For me, that was humiliation, mainly verbal, mainly psychological. Don't do something that doesn't rev your mental motor though, or you will burn out very fast on it - fetishists are monolithic sometimes. If you say you love having your feet licked, you'd better love it because that guy is going to do his foot thing every week for a decade.

Actually, foot worship is something that I still find distasteful. it does make me chuckle given the plethora of other things I get up to that I'm fine with. Boot licking I can handle. Foot worship either tickles me into very unbitchqueenlike giggles or makes me slightly nauseous. With one guy I have even made it his ultimate goal, for me to allow him to do that and it's specifically because I want to put it off as long as possible and it's something he really enjoys. Fortunately, he likes the challenge and I get a lot of quality head as a result.

I think that's the other issue here. I haven't really done enough of this to have a clear idea of what dominant activities 'rev my motor' as you put it. I find humiliation more than a little awkward because it's difficult for me to objectify someone who's still essentially a paying customer. I can't seem to switch off that professional, 'have a nice day,' customer service part of my brain.

I have tried humiliation and if I'm lousy at it, I feel bad because the client's disappointed but if I get into it, I feel just as guilty because I still find it hard to believe that they want to be humiliated so much that they're parting with hundreds of pounds. I suppose that should be an obvious, 1 + 1 = 2 thing but it's still an issue for me. I expect them to turn around at any moment yelling 'and just who the fuck do you think you are?' before dressing and storming out.

I should also have mentioned that while I've been escorting for about 7 years now, I've only been dabbling with kink for a year or so. It started with teasing sessions, spankings and light bondage and has progressed from there. I'm still not really confident enough in myself to just direct things and hope they keep up. I have chatted with a few pro-domme's online and even met one for some tips but the stuff she was doing as standard was way out of my comfort zone. Perhaps I should do a little more research. I've found lots of useful threads in the BDSM Library and also the Blank Manual on HT.

 

[BiBunny]

Actually, I watched the movie, "Bugsy" a couple weeks ago. In it an architect was commissioned without specific instructions and he never could get specifics and the whole thing was changed repeatedly and the architect and builder were pretty much pulling out their hair in frustration.

I dunno. If you tell me the lack of instructions and the constant changes and the contradictions you get from customers are unique to the sex biz, I'm gonna have a hard time getting my arms around that idea. If you tell me you get a lot more of it in the sex biz than in other businesses, I'd find that much more plausible.

But I really don't think the basic concept/problem is unique to the sex biz. YMMV of course.

No, it isn't unique to the adult industry, and I never said it was.

I've been a waitress. I've worked in an office. I've worked in a 411 call center. People are assholes everywhere. But you are much, much more likely to get a guy who won't tell you what kind of sexual fantasies he has than a guy who won't tell you what kind of food he wants. I mean, really now, how many people call 411 and say, "I dunno, just give me whatever phone number."

No. It doesn't work that way. I'm not asking for a lot here, at least I don't think so. All I want is enough information to do my job and do it well and please the customer. I'm not laboring under any delusions that this is about me. It isn't. I'm not paying for it. But if a guy wants a quality experience, then he's got to give me information to work with, else he's wasting his money and both our time.

Oh, well. I don't expect other people to get it unless they've lived it, and, hell, I don't have the same experiences that working_girl and Netz have, either. I have vaguely dabbled in the world of pro domination, but the majority of my paid experience has been phone-only.

By the way, as a Top/Dom/me-type person, you'll pretty often run into these types of folks in your personal life, too. I do my best to stay far the hell away from them.

 

[working_girl]

No. It doesn't work that way. I'm not asking for a lot here, at least I don't think so. All I want is enough information to do my job and do it well and please the customer. I'm not laboring under any delusions that this is about me. It isn't. I'm not paying for it. But if a guy wants a quality experience, then he's got to give me information to work with, else he's wasting his money and both our time.

Oh, well. I don't expect other people to get it unless they've lived it, and, hell, I don't have the same experiences that working_girl and Netz have, either. I have vaguely dabbled in the world of pro domination, but the majority of my paid experience has been phone-only.

From what you describe it's pretty much exactly the same. The sex industry is the sex industry, no matter how much contact you actually have with people. I can even hear them in my head as you describe it. It's hard not to stereotype people into boxes when they're so determined to be cliched.

 

[satindesire]

I have tried humiliation and if I'm lousy at it, I feel bad because the client's disappointed but if I get into it, I feel just as guilty because I still find it hard to believe that they want to be humiliated so much that they're parting with hundreds of pounds. I suppose that should be an obvious, 1 + 1 = 2 thing but it's still an issue for me. I expect them to turn around at any moment yelling 'and just who the fuck do you think you are?' before dressing and storming out.

*chuckle*

 

[Vail_Indigo]

I can't help but find it amusing how sex in the 'pro' realm is so similar, in many ways, to non-pro.
In both situations, there's a desire to not have to talk, discuss, share, ask. We want the other person to just know. Shit, we want ourselves to just know.
If there's that disconnect between two people, or if we ourrselves don't fully understand what we want, or how to express it, we feel...what...shame?
Fucking isn't a movie.

 

[Netzach]

I can't help but find it amusing how sex in the 'pro' realm is so similar, in many ways, to non-pro.
In both situations, there's a desire to not have to talk, discuss, share, ask. We want the other person to just know. Shit, we want ourselves to just know.
If there's that disconnect between two people, or if we ourrselves don't fully understand what we want, or how to express it, we feel...what...shame?
Fucking isn't a movie.

I never felt that way in my off hours, but YMMV.
I like processing shit. But I like girls, so I think it goes with the territory.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

I never felt that way in my off hours, but YMMV.
I like processing shit. But I like girls, so I think it goes with the territory.

I'm strictly a girl's girl myself. I'm actually pretty relaxed about sex in general. But i've also been with partners that I found frustrating to have to communicate with on the topic. I dunno, maybe the rest of the relationship was so fairy-tale that to have to be reasonable and practical in this aspect was just frustrating and all.
Its entirely possible that it was just me, too, and where I was in my life.