retrograde step?

geronimo_appleby

always on the move
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Nov 25, 2004
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i seem to be taking a backwards step with the stuff i submit to lit. i feel i've omproved over the last couple of years, but the feedback, PC's etc don't reflect my perception. i take a lot more time over my submissions these days, rther than the write and submit i did in the early days.

i'd appreciate some form of critique on my latest (link below) if anyone has the time and/or inclination.

this piece is a prequel to an earlier submission. it's an incest piece featuring a mother and son; how the affair began.

thank you. GA.

Playing With Cindy -- The Beginning
 
It's like watching a play with bad actors.

Everything is there for it to be a very successful interaction between the players and the audience but the delivery by the actors is just that, delivery.

There is absolutely nothing wrong (that I could find) with the construction, pace or the minor matters of spelling etc but somehow it didn't take off.

There are two main points that I noticed. One was word choice but having said that I don't believe you'll find many stories on Lit that use longer or more 'esoteric' words than I do myself. In your story it seems that they are somehow out of place. It might be the positioning or context but it's definitely not because they're too high faluting.
The second point is the dialogue. (Halfway through I was wondering why they weren't speaking scottish but that's neither here nor there) It seems to me that you're reporting dialogue rather than having your characters speak it. There doesn't appear to be any difference in actual language between the story teller and the characters

Now I know there's large debate about character description but for my taste I would like at least a vague description so that I can picture them. When I listen to the football on Saturday afternoons I need to know whether we're attacking or defending the Kop.

This description thing has clarified the last thing that was bugging me. I had no idea of where they lived. The weather, the house, the town, the community.

I also expected a hell of a lot more reaction when he caught his mother with the other guy, that and the fact that he knew all about the other guy so why not let your reader in to some of the detail?

Having said all that I fully understand that many of those matters may have been dealt with previously but I was looking at the one story.
 
It's like watching a play with bad actors.

Everything is there for it to be a very successful interaction between the players and the audience but the delivery by the actors is just that, delivery.

There is absolutely nothing wrong (that I could find) with the construction, pace or the minor matters of spelling etc but somehow it didn't take off.

There are two main points that I noticed. One was word choice but having said that I don't believe you'll find many stories on Lit that use longer or more 'esoteric' words than I do myself. In your story it seems that they are somehow out of place. It might be the positioning or context but it's definitely not because they're too high faluting.
The second point is the dialogue. (Halfway through I was wondering why they weren't speaking scottish but that's neither here nor there) It seems to me that you're reporting dialogue rather than having your characters speak it. There doesn't appear to be any difference in actual language between the story teller and the characters

Now I know there's large debate about character description but for my taste I would like at least a vague description so that I can picture them. When I listen to the football on Saturday afternoons I need to know whether we're attacking or defending the Kop.

This description thing has clarified the last thing that was bugging me. I had no idea of where they lived. The weather, the house, the town, the community.

I also expected a hell of a lot more reaction when he caught his mother with the other guy, that and the fact that he knew all about the other guy so why not let your reader in to some of the detail?

Having said all that I fully understand that many of those matters may have been dealt with previously but I was looking at the one story.

some points for me to ponder. thanks for taking the time to look at it and make those observations. i really do appreciate the effort. i think, in retrospect, that i'm prolly putting too much emphasis on the technical side -- grammar, punc, etc. rather than on making the character live.

anyway, thanks again. time to get the notebook out and do some scribbling. :)
 
I have to agree that the dialogue feels flat, and her dialogue blends in too well with the narrative. There's not enough personality/individuality coming through for her.

Even though the story is in first person, the narrative and the dialogue within the story feel a little too seamless, as well. I'm not getting the feeling of transition between looking back as the narrarator, and living it in the dialogue. The description of a play hits right on. The actual scenes feel scripted, rather than flowing naturally. It's almost as if the narrarator is pitching a production while having the company play out a few scenes, and explaining too much of what he was thinking when he wrote it, as though he knows in the back of his head that it isn't coming through on the stage.

Later on in the story, there's more individuality in both of them, but the flat feeling from the beginning carries over and takes the edge off of it, to me.

The dates also jarred me. Whenever this is used in first person, I almost feel as if the beginning should note that this is all an entry into a diary or something. I think the whole story would have better flow with the story drifting in and out of the flashbacks through a little more narrative transition, eliminating the dates.

You're probably on to something about concentrating on the nuts and bolts at the expense of the characters and scene setting. I think that probably has a lot to do with the flat feeling of the dialogue.

Just my top of the head, knee-jerk impression.
 
I have to agree that the dialogue feels flat, and her dialogue blends in too well with the narrative. There's not enough personality/individuality coming through for her.

Even though the story is in first person, the narrative and the dialogue within the story feel a little too seamless, as well. I'm not getting the feeling of transition between looking back as the narrarator, and living it in the dialogue. The description of a play hits right on. The actual scenes feel scripted, rather than flowing naturally. It's almost as if the narrarator is pitching a production while having the company play out a few scenes, and explaining too much of what he was thinking when he wrote it, as though he knows in the back of his head that it isn't coming through on the stage.

Later on in the story, there's more individuality in both of them, but the flat feeling from the beginning carries over and takes the edge off of it, to me.

The dates also jarred me. Whenever this is used in first person, I almost feel as if the beginning should note that this is all an entry into a diary or something. I think the whole story would have better flow with the story drifting in and out of the flashbacks through a little more narrative transition, eliminating the dates.

You're probably on to something about concentrating on the nuts and bolts at the expense of the characters and scene setting. I think that probably has a lot to do with the flat feeling of the dialogue.

Just my top of the head, knee-jerk impression.

all good stuff. you've both got me keen to get on with a new idea. my head's popping now and i have to write the stuff down before one thought displaces the next.

again, thank you for this. i realise it's an effort to read something and then be bothered to critique, so i really do appreciate your time.
 
I thought the story content was good and the character emotion. I felt that you had gone for a rather formal tone and word choice for your first person narrator and this did not quite mesh with the story he was telling us. I found it also pushed the reader out of the story's head space or didn't let them feel it enough if you know what I mean.
 
I thought the story content was good and the character emotion. I felt that you had gone for a rather formal tone and word choice for your first person narrator and this did not quite mesh with the story he was telling us. I found it also pushed the reader out of the story's head space or didn't let them feel it enough if you know what I mean.

this confirms the earlier thoughts shown above.

thanks fo taking the time to post your opinion. :)
 
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