More about protocol

[Adakgirl]

Sir Victor asked a poster in a thread this:

Does your Dom not use a protocol? Something like this for example:
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost...76&postcount=2

This is close to what I find works best

.
I clicked on the link and read this list of protocols, it uses different "modes" for submissive. I wondered about a few things included on that list.

In his "At ease" mode it says a submissive must:
"Not stray far a field from the topic at hand BUT shes allowed to express herself freely."
My question is how can any woman...sub or not express herself freely if she is not allowed to stray far from the topic at hand? In my opinion, that is almost impossible. The allowance of freedom of expression is nullified if she can't talk about the topics she wants to talk about. If she has to hold back things because it is not the topic at hand, she certainly cannot express herself freely.

Then in "Slave mode" he writes:
1) she speaks of herself in the third person. This is so that she realizes that she now belongs to her Master and her Dominant and since that is the case, she is speaking of some else’s property (removal of personal pronouns) and thus she must speak of herself in the third person.
#3- she is never to initiate a topic or conversation.

 

[BiBunny]

Psst. Your link doesn't work. Well, at least not for me.

 

[Adakgirl]

Sir Victor asked a poster in a thread this:

Does your Dom not use a protocol? Something like this for example:
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost...76&postcount=2
This is close to what I find works best

.

I clicked on the link and read this list of protocols, it uses different "modes" for submissive. I have a few questions about a some protocols included on that list.

In his "At ease" mode it says a submissive must:
"Not stray far a field from the topic at hand BUT shes allowed to express herself freely."

My question is how can any woman...sub or not express herself freely if she is not allowed to stray far from the topic at hand? In my opinion, that is almost impossible. The allowance of freedom of expression is nullified if she can't talk about the topics she wants to talk about. If she has to hold back things because it is not the topic at hand, she certainly cannot express herself freely.

Then in "Slave mode" he writes:
1) she speaks of herself in the third person. This is so that she realizes that she now belongs to her Master and her Dominant and since that is the case, she is speaking of some else’s property (removal of personal pronouns) and thus she must speak of herself in the third person.

I think any submissive in Slave mode already knows and realizes who she belongs to. She would not be speaking of someone else property but she is speaking of herself, her Master's property. I do not understand why she would be required to speak in the third person? (thought I know of slaves who do this because they want too)

#3- she is never to initiate a topic or conversation.

This confuses me also. Why can't a slave, after respectfully asking and receiving permission to speak or to speak freely..initiate a topic? Why can't a slave start a conversation with her PLY? I thought that the main premise of a good D/s M/s relationship was communication.

 

[00Syd]

Formal protocal stuff like that drives me crazy.

 

[Adakgirl]

alright one moment I will find it again and repost it


http://forum.literotica.com/showpost...76&postcount=2

 

[BiBunny]

alright one moment I will find it again and repost it


http://forum.literotica.com/showpost...76&postcount=2

I keep getting a 404 Not Found error, but it may very well be my computer. I dunno.

 

[Adakgirl]

dang the last part of my OP didnt show up either eh? hummmm wonder how I did that?
In "slave mode", he writes this:
3) she is never to initiate a topic nor a conversation

Once she respectfully asks for permission to speak freely and receives it, why can't she bring up a topic or start a conversation?
Does this also mean in on-line relationship in Slave mode" she can't start a PM or IM convo with her Master?
I thought the whole basis of a good M/s D/s relationship was open honest communication.

 

[Adakgirl]

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=18395676&postcount=2

one more time...that doesn't work I will copy past the whole dang list in here k? Crap...I am rusty at posting threads...I had a comment about the requirement to speak in third person too...grrrrrrrrrrrrr That one works for me bunny.

 

[BiBunny]

It worked that time. Or else my computer decided to stop being a jackass. Thank you. I'm going to go actually read it now.

Ok, now I can give my opinion. First of all, none of this is my cup of tea. I could see how the "real life" stuff might appeal to other people, I guess, but it just seems like a lot of rigmarole for nothing. I never could remember all that stuff, and it seems like it would obscure things more than anything. As for the "online" stuff, I think people have way too much time on their hands.

Oh, also, I bend the rules of grammar for no (wo)man. That includes the screwy capitalization, the third-person speak, and other things. I mean, I probably screw them up pretty often, but that's either out of ignorance or for some effect, not because somebody told me to. I prefer to make myself look stupid on my own merits, not through chatroom-speak.

 

[mediocre]

Works now.

Strict rules like that are a rubbish to me. Each couple has to discover what works for them.

I know I don't want to be the only one to initiate a conversation. But there are nights where I just want quiet. If that is the case I'll let her know.

 

[Adakgirl]

Ok thank you. So I take it not all D/s M/s relationships use protocols? Certain rules of behavior that are expected to be followed at all times? So it is OK for me to question such rules if I don't agree with them? My main disagreement was they seem to be made to keep the ply from having open communication with her PLY.

 

[00Syd]

Ok thank you. So I take it not all D/s M/s relationships use protocols? Certain rules of behavior that are expected to be followed at all times? So it is OK for me to question such rules if I don't agree with them? My main disagreement was they seem to be made to keep the ply from having open communication with her PLY.

Of course you can question rules like that (or anything) if you don't agree with them.

And no, not all D/s M/s relationships use protocols. I could never be in a relationship with someone who required protocols.

 

[Adakgirl]

I have no clue how this thread posted incompletely the 1st time, then completely this time. I only posted it up once. Pleas forgive it has been awhile and I have no clue how I did that.

 

[FantaSeaGirl]

*shrugs*.

I have to agree with you. Regardless of the relationship communication is the most important tool.

Maybe this is for a non-24/7 TPE situation and only applies when "in scene"? (I'm sorry, I didn't read the link you posted).

I do understand the refereing to oneself in the third person. I don't think it's necessary but can see the comfort in a protocol if it doesn't hinder freedom of thought & communication. I can also be so ingraned that it becomes habit.

All I can say is that if this is supposed to apply to a 24/7 TPE relationship then I would hope that there is a "speak freely mode". And I pity the PYL bcause if he has a wonderful witty pyl & he doesn't give her permission to open up to him, for her to feel truely understood, then he will never truely "own" her.

 

[myinnerslut]

1- to each their own
2- real life makes a lot of that uber protocol flat impossible
3- porn is not real life. neither are erotica, or the gor books as they are written

 

[catalina_francisco]

Didn't bother with the link. IMO, there are a lot of people who like to get off on posing as an authority more so than actually being involved in a BDSM (or variation of) type relationship with and for those directly involved in that relationship, and past the wank factor. Translation = who appointed these people as the BDSM police of what is right, wrong, or unacceptable in the first place? Answer likely is 'themselves' and their inflated, attention hungry ego. Personally for me, they can do whatever they like, as long as they spare me the sermon on what is right and what is not.

Catalina

 

[Adakgirl]

You have answered my questions, thank you!

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I don't think any of this stuff works for long outside of a Gorean masturbatory fantasyland. Master and I do not have protocols and speaking of myself in the third person would drive me batshit mental, not least because you can't do that in front of others so 'the girl' would have to keep switching from one to the other.

This is a sweeping generalisation but IME the people who live rigidly structured, ritualistic BDSM lifestyles are generally ones where the PYL needs constant reassurance that he's still wearing the trousers (or pants... or Master panties... whatever). True respect cannot be demanded or engendered simply through fear, only earned. Sometimes people who live as strictly as this do so because they don't want to give the pyl any scope for rebellion but as tyrannical dictators through the ages have learned to their cost, hearts and minds cannot be ruled or subjugated with an iron fist. Not permitting a pyl to speak freely does not mean that no problem can arise with the dynamic, only that problems will fester and become malignant through lack of open communication.

Master does not set limits on what I may or may not discuss with him because he wants to know what is going on with me and to understand how we can grow and become stronger as a couple. He values my input when making important decisions that affect us both and recognises that in some areas, my knowledge is greater than his. I would go so far as to say that if I failed to raise issues with him and bottled things up, he would want to know why and he would feel that he had failed me somehow as a dominant. By and large, my thoughts and feelings are as much his property as the rest of me is and I try hard not to shy from awkward questions or gloss over my true feelings about things.

I always treat Master with respect and when we talk I always speak from the perspective of one who does not make the important decisions. I do not (often ) raise my voice or get angry and I accept that his decision is always final. There is a protocol of sorts but no more than that which exists between a boss and a staff member. I have heard 24/7 TPE described as a 'captain and first mate' arrangement and it fits us well. I never try to be the captain but I am his right hand woman and valuable as such.

 

[Adakgirl]

By and large, my thoughts and feelings are as much his property as the rest of me is and I try hard not to shy from awkward questions or gloss over my true feelings about things.

Excellent post velvet, thank you so much. I believe that open communication is vital to any relationship. The above quote sums up exactly my feelings on the subject as well.

 

[Harmony_1985]

Of course you can question rules like that (or anything) if you don't agree with them.

And no, not all D/s M/s relationships use protocols. I could never be in a relationship with someone who required protocols.

Syd has that right. I have a set of rules that Sir gave me to read and learn on our first meeting, but not all of them apply to us. The ones I don't agree with or don't want we've discussed and negotiated (example: one of the rules is needing permission to wear a tampon or pad while its time of the month, and we discussed that, I have permission to wear underwear and a pad when I'm on).

We have certain protocols in place that I follow. If I ask for permission for something, eg. I've been invited out or we're out and I need the toilet, then I ask in the 3rd person. Not a huge amount, but a few.

I think sometimes it depends on your setting too. If Sir and I are "in scene" I'm expected to follow protocol closely. If we're not and we're at a munch or in a pub, its slighly more relaxed.

 

[cinereaheath]

I don't think any of this stuff works for long outside of a Gorean masturbatory fantasyland. Master and I do not have protocols and speaking of myself in the third person would drive me batshit mental, not least because you can't do that in front of others so 'the girl' would have to keep switching from one to the other.

This is a sweeping generalisation but IME the people who live rigidly structured, ritualistic BDSM lifestyles are generally ones where the PYL needs constant reassurance that he's still wearing the trousers (or pants... or Master panties... whatever). True respect cannot be demanded or engendered simply through fear, only earned. Sometimes people who live as strictly as this do so because they don't want to give the pyl any scope for rebellion but as tyrannical dictators through the ages have learned to their cost, hearts and minds cannot be ruled or subjugated with an iron fist. Not permitting a pyl to speak freely does not mean that no problem can arise with the dynamic, only that problems will fester and become malignant through lack of open communication.
Master does not set limits on what I may or may not discuss with him because he wants to know what is going on with me and to understand how we can grow and become stronger as a couple. He values my input when making important decisions that affect us both and recognises that in some areas, my knowledge is greater than his. I would go so far as to say that if I failed to raise issues with him and bottled things up, he would want to know why and he would feel that he had failed me somehow as a dominant. By and large, my thoughts and feelings are as much his property as the rest of me is and I try hard not to shy from awkward questions or gloss over my true feelings about things.
I always treat Master with respect and when we talk I always speak from the perspective of one who does not make the important decisions. I do not (often ) raise my voice or get angry and I accept that his decision is always final. There is a protocol of sorts but no more than that which exists between a boss and a staff member. I have heard 24/7 TPE described as a 'captain and first mate' arrangement and it fits us well. I never try to be the captain but I am his right hand woman and valuable as such.

very nice post.. the bolded bits really resonate with me..

and I think it is because my special friend and I have established a similar basis of communication that I am finally coming to feel alive and whole in my own skin..