In expection of a PYL's needs

[ecstaticsub]

I found myself in complete frustration last night. I will apologize ahead of time for the vagueness. I hope I still get my point across.

I have been in my present relationship for 3.5 years. We know each other very well. I know what he expects from me. I usually know what he wants even before he asks.

The problem I ran into last night was that I thought there was a task (for lack of a better word) he wanted me to work toward completing. I thought this because he had mentioned wanting it, we had discussed it in a playful fantasy sort of way though thinking back he never really ordered me to do it. The problem is that I mentally started planning for it, trying it out in my head. With this I realized that realistically it was going to be impossible. Not impossible because I was being disobedient, or because I wasn't willing to try hard enough but impossible because there were too many variables outside of my control.

The frustration of not being able to give him what he wanted was only compounded by the realization while discussing the situation with him that he hadn't asked me to do anything in the first place.

That's a long winded way of posing my questions--

For the PYL's --How much do you expect your pyls to foresee your needs and attend to them without asking? Or do you just want them to do what they are specifically asked to do?

For the pyls--This sort of situation has happened to me once before, does anyone else try too hard and end up in a complete misunderstanding? He keeps telling me that as long as I obey I will never be a failure but I don't see it as a question of obedience, but this situation has me feeling exactly like a failure.

Thanks

 

[daddiespet]

I found myself in complete frustration last night. I will apologize ahead of time for the vagueness. I hope I still get my point across.

I have been in my present relationship for 3.5 years. We know each other very well. I know what he expects from me. I usually know what he wants even before he asks.

The problem I ran into last night was that I thought there was a task (for lack of a better word) he wanted me to work toward completing. I thought this because he had mentioned wanting it, we had discussed it in a playful fantasy sort of way though thinking back he never really ordered me to do it. The problem is that I mentally started planning for it, trying it out in my head. With this I realized that realistically it was going to be impossible. Not impossible because I was being disobedient, or because I wasn't willing to try hard enough but impossible because there were too many variables outside of my control.

The frustration of not being able to give him what he wanted was only compounded by the realization while discussing the situation with him that he hadn't asked me to do anything in the first place.

That's a long winded way of posing my questions--

For the PYL's --How much do you expect your pyls to foresee your needs and attend to them without asking? Or do you just want them to do what they are specifically asked to do?

For the pyls--This sort of situation has happened to me once before, does anyone else try too hard and end up in a complete misunderstanding? He keeps telling me that as long as I obey I will never be a failure but I don't see it as a question of obedience, but this situation has me feeling exactly like a failure.

Thanks

as a pyl i would have to say that i have indeed experienced this in the past, the only suggestion i can give it to bring it up with your PYL and show Him what you have thought/done and see what He says.

 

[kittenartist]

For the PYL's --How much do you expect your pyls to foresee your needs and attend to them without asking? Or do you just want them to do what they are specifically asked to do?

I try to never expect him to magically foresee my needs because, like it or not, he is not a mind reader. I expect him to remember little things I have told him but not to anticipate my needs before they are expressed. Mind you, I said I try, there are still times I catch myself expecting him to know what to do although I have not given clear instructions. That is a fault on my end and I rectify it promptly.

That being said, there are times he does anticipate my needs before I even know I am in need... I chalk this up to his intelligence and experience. Of course, it can backfire when he assumes I want A when I really want B or wanted nothing at all...

I always tell him: "when in doubt, ask" and to avoid assumptions about what I may or may not want at any given time. I would rather have to tell him directly than to have him presume to know what is in my mind.

 

[ecstaticsub]

as a pyl i would have to say that i have indeed experienced this in the past, the only suggestion i can give it to bring it up with your PYL and show Him what you have thought/done and see what He says.

One of our major hurdles is that what are in a LDR and unfortunately have not seen each other in person for a while now. The whole situation was totally my mistake. I should have handled it differently. Sometimes I get so focused on what I think he wants that I get too serious and I don't listen like I should. We will be talking again tonight, however I will not bring up the subject. If he wants to talk more about it then I will, but I will mostly see the situation as a lesson learned. Thanks for your response.

I try to never expect him to magically foresee my needs because, like it or not, he is not a mind reader. I expect him to remember little things I have told him but not to anticipate my needs before they are expressed. Mind you, I said I try, there are still times I catch myself expecting him to know what to do although I have not given clear instructions. That is a fault on my end and I rectify it promptly.

That being said, there are times he does anticipate my needs before I even know I am in need... I chalk this up to his intelligence and experience. Of course, it can backfire when he assumes I want A when I really want B or wanted nothing at all...

I always tell him: "when in doubt, ask" and to avoid assumptions about what I may or may not want at any given time. I would rather have to tell him directly than to have him presume to know what is in my mind.

I don't think he ever expects me to anticipate his needs. But like you said with intelligence and experience I know what he would make him happy. The only times I have had problems are these few times when what I think he wants I am unable to do. I absolutely hate disappointing him. I think I just have to learn how to admit defeat gracefully. Thanks

 

[Homburg]

Anticipatory service is the nadir to which a pyl aspires, at least in my own specific relationships. It is possible to anticipate needs in LDR, as MIS does, but much, much simpler to do in a face to face situation. Kittenartist really nails the explanation, in my opinion, when she draws the lines between not expecting the pyl to be a mind reader, but certainly expecting that said pyl will learn various tastes, expectations, etc.

In this specific case, I am going to make an analogy. Your service here, and not being able to provide something implausible, if not impossible, by your description, is kind of like Michael Phelps at the Olympics. He was shooting for eight gold medals, and had a reasonable chance of making it, as well as shooting for all the world records he could get. In one event, he won by a hundredth of a second, coming as close to defeat as anyone ever.

So while he got the eight golds, he did not dominate as utterly as he might have wanted to. Did he fail? No, of course not. He got every medal he set out for.

In your case, something came up in conversation, and you thought that it might be cool. You realised it was not possible, and modified your course. Did you actually fail? Did you not succeed in a task given to you? No, of course not, but you feel bad because you did not serve as you *hoped* you could.

To me, it sounds you were doing everything that you could, and attempting to do more than that. At the end of the day, you were doing what you were told, and it sounds like he was not dissappointed in you in the slightest.

 

[ataxia.girl]

For the pyls--This sort of situation has happened to me once before, does anyone else try too hard and end up in a complete misunderstanding? He keeps telling me that as long as I obey I will never be a failure but I don't see it as a question of obedience, but this situation has me feeling exactly like a failure.

Yes!

This is one of the reasons i just stay little. i'm such a perfectionist that i will beat myself up and run myself through a grinder otherwise. Being a little girl means i make mistakes and no one really cares too much. In a way its a way to get out of my own guilt ridden perfectionist head.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Anticipatory service is the nadir to which a pyl aspires, at least in my own specific relationships. It is possible to anticipate needs in LDR, as MIS does, but much, much simpler to do in a face to face situation. Kittenartist really nails the explanation, in my opinion, when she draws the lines between not expecting the pyl to be a mind reader, but certainly expecting that said pyl will learn various tastes, expectations, etc.

In this specific case, I am going to make an analogy. Your service here, and not being able to provide something implausible, if not impossible, by your description, is kind of like Michael Phelps at the Olympics. He was shooting for eight gold medals, and had a reasonable chance of making it, as well as shooting for all the world records he could get. In one event, he won by a hundredth of a second, coming as close to defeat as anyone ever.

So while he got the eight golds, he did not dominate as utterly as he might have wanted to. Did he fail? No, of course not. He got every medal he set out for.

In your case, something came up in conversation, and you thought that it might be cool. You realised it was not possible, and modified your course. Did you actually fail? Did you not succeed in a task given to you? No, of course not, but you feel bad because you did not serve as you *hoped* you could.

To me, it sounds you were doing everything that you could, and attempting to do more than that. At the end of the day, you were doing what you were told, and it sounds like he was not dissappointed in you in the slightest.

Thank you for your response. The only thing he was really disappointed about was my failure to communicate what was going on in my head in a clear manner. Life has been so crazy lately. I need to try to learn some restraint when in certain moods. Sometimes I really need to just relax and really trust him.

The one really good thing that came out of all this is I have tentatively planned to fly up to see him the middle of February.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Yes!

This is one of the reasons i just stay little. i'm such a perfectionist that i will beat myself up and run myself through a grinder otherwise. Being a little girl means i make mistakes and no one really cares too much. In a way its a way to get out of my own guilt ridden perfectionist head.

Even though I call my PYL "Daddy" we are not in a Daddy/lg relationship. He just doesn't like being called Sir or Master etc. He does take care of me in many ways. I don't think I could switch back and forth from being an adult at work, with my kids etc and then to a little girl for him.

It sounds like it works well for you. I like how you use it to keep from getting frustrated with making errors.

Thanks for giving me something to think about.

 

[ataxia.girl]

i dunno for me it just sort of evolved slowly and now its part of me. People say i go in and out but i don't really feel it that much. Its quite fluid. i can say nuffings to Daddy one second, send an angry email the next and find a missing shoe for one of my children the next.

i was raised in a cult that was basically toxic for the type of person i am. On the other hand raising my daughter i can see how any environment was going to be difficult for me so i can't just blame it on that.

Its my way of learning to accept love without being perfect i guess. i have things to unlearn, very deeply ingrained things. i'm not sure i will ever really be successful but it feels good to try and it helps me keep getting out of bed every morning to make the lunches, go to work and yell at people, make dinner, clean up etc etc etc all while having the surreal feeling that someone else chose this life for me and didn't ask or care if it was at all or even close to what i might have wanted. i never even let myself think there was any other option.

i do feel very fortunate to have the luxury of this type of musing. Lots of people don't.

Anyway i my Daddy and am definitely not his grown up girl or slave though i am very good at doing what he tells me.

 

[Karleksknop]

Excuse a stupid question, what does PYL stand for? I have never come across that abbreviation before...

 

[ataxia.girl]

Excuse a stupid question, what does PYL stand for? I have never come across that abbreviation before...

PYL=Pick your label (Top, Dominant, Master, Daddy, Mistress, Domme)
pyl=pick your label (bottom, sub, little girl, pet, toy, slave)

 

[Karleksknop]

Thanks! The only way to look more stupid than the one that doesn´t know the meaning of a word is to be the one that uses a word he/she doesn´t know

 

[Netzach]

I found myself in complete frustration last night. I will apologize ahead of time for the vagueness. I hope I still get my point across.

I have been in my present relationship for 3.5 years. We know each other very well. I know what he expects from me. I usually know what he wants even before he asks.

The problem I ran into last night was that I thought there was a task (for lack of a better word) he wanted me to work toward completing. I thought this because he had mentioned wanting it, we had discussed it in a playful fantasy sort of way though thinking back he never really ordered me to do it. The problem is that I mentally started planning for it, trying it out in my head. With this I realized that realistically it was going to be impossible. Not impossible because I was being disobedient, or because I wasn't willing to try hard enough but impossible because there were too many variables outside of my control.

The frustration of not being able to give him what he wanted was only compounded by the realization while discussing the situation with him that he hadn't asked me to do anything in the first place.

That's a long winded way of posing my questions--

For the PYL's --How much do you expect your pyls to foresee your needs and attend to them without asking? Or do you just want them to do what they are specifically asked to do?

For the pyls--This sort of situation has happened to me once before, does anyone else try too hard and end up in a complete misunderstanding? He keeps telling me that as long as I obey I will never be a failure but I don't see it as a question of obedience, but this situation has me feeling exactly like a failure.

Thanks

That kind of "just because I knew you'd love it" thing is kind of like an extra cherry on the sundae. Some people will be delighted to get it, but most of us are really happy with the sundae we wanted.

Does this make any sense?

 

[ecstaticsub]

That kind of "just because I knew you'd love it" thing is kind of like an extra cherry on the sundae. Some people will be delighted to get it, but most of us are really happy with the sundae we wanted.

Does this make any sense?

Hi Netzach, yes it does make sense. Thank you. Though I really enjoy giving him that extra cherry, he deserves it. (though he has already taken my 3some cherry, my gangbang cherry, my spanking cherry, drinking piss cherry..and many more )

I do know he is very pleased with me. The relationship is almost 4 years old, I must be doing something right.

 

[catalina_francisco]

For the pyls--This sort of situation has happened to me once before, does anyone else try too hard and end up in a complete misunderstanding? He keeps telling me that as long as I obey I will never be a failure but I don't see it as a question of obedience, but this situation has me feeling exactly like a failure.

This was something we had to work through long and hard in the early days simply because I found it difficult to not anticipate and please by so doing, and my emotional upset to find it was not only desired by him I serve him this way, but that he actually found it threatening in terms of my submission. I finally got it from his POV, managed to most of the time comply, only to get to a point where he now would like to reverse it a little and I find it difficult to flick the switch back yet again after all the programming we went through to get me to the point of not anticipating on his behalf, and acting on it on some level. Where it will progress to for us I have no idea, but yes, it is about obeying and not taking it on yourself to work toward anything you have not been asked to simply because you think he wants it....it is not easy.

Catalina

 

[ecstaticsub]

This was something we had to work through long and hard in the early days simply because I found it difficult to not anticipate and please by so doing, and my emotional upset to find it was not only desired by him I serve him this way, but that he actually found it threatening in terms of my submission. I finally got it from his POV, managed to most of the time comply, only to get to a point where he now would like to reverse it a little and I find it difficult to flick the switch back yet again after all the programming we went through to get me to the point of not anticipating on his behalf, and acting on it on some level. Where it will progress to for us I have no idea, but yes, it is about obeying and not taking it on yourself to work toward anything you have not been asked to simply because you think he wants it....it is not easy.

Catalina

Hi Catalina...you made me realize something. He was angry with me not because I was disobedient, it was because I wasn't obedient. Disobedience is not necessarily the opposite of obedience. I think this fact is the core of why I was getting so frustrated. I pride myself on my obedience. I have never said no to him or flat out refused to do something. So in the course of that night's discussion when he started getting angry with my frustration and telling me it was about obedience I was thinking he thought I was being disobedient really hurt and made me more aggravated.

(also I think he was getting frustrated with my frustration about not being able to do something that he didn't ask for in the first place...lol)

(btw, this whole situation has never been brought up since that night and all is well in our world )

 

[rida]

Interestingly I used to have more problem with this in my vanilla days.
As a combination of my desire to please by preventing desires and Hubby's inability to ask for what he wanted, it often would end up with me overdoing it and getting frustrated either with the lack of success or the lack of gratitude, and, of course, I'd end up venting my frustration in his direction ...
And he would, of course, get upset at me for being upset at him for having done something he didn't ask for ...

One of the things that I loved most about Hubby discovering and accepting his Dominant side is that he has a better time asking for what he wants, and, in time I've learned to, at least, ask if he wants me to do XYZ before I start. Now we have at time the opposite problem that I do expect him to ask and he expect me to offer.


As a side note, I found the below bolded quote very interesting, and it gave me something to think about.

Hi Catalina...you made me realize something. He was angry with me not because I was disobedient, it was because I wasn't obedient. Disobedience is not necessarily the opposite of obedience. I think this fact is the core of why I was getting so frustrated. I pride myself on my obedience. I have never said no to him or flat out refused to do something. So in the course of that night's discussion when he started getting angry with my frustration and telling me it was about obedience I was thinking he thought I was being disobedient really hurt and made me more aggravated.

(also I think he was getting frustrated with my frustration about not being able to do something that he didn't ask for in the first place...lol)

(btw, this whole situation has never been brought up since that night and all is well in our world )

I realized that my way of disobeying is indeed not about not doing what asked, but is somewhat more related to doing or not doing something and using as a reason the fact that I am not disobeying as I am not refusing to obey.

 

[ecstaticsub]

<<snip>>

I realized that my way of disobeying is indeed not about not doing what asked, but is somewhat more related to doing or not doing something and using as a reason the fact that I am not disobeying as I am not refusing to obey.

That took me a few time to read through to get what you were saying but I get it. Daddy calls that using loopholes.

In the first year of our relationship I seemed to be always overthinking things. Not that I was trying to disobey but maybe more of a bit of rebellion. A bit of fighting against complete surrender. Thinking back it was like my teen years getting away with things because my parents hadn't explicitly forbid those things, even though i knew what they had intended.

Now the loophole issue is more of something we playfully tease about.

 

[fishercat]

For the pyls--This sort of situation has happened to me once before, does anyone else try too hard and end up in a complete misunderstanding? He keeps telling me that as long as I obey I will never be a failure but I don't see it as a question of obedience, but this situation has me feeling exactly like a failure.

I'm still pretty new, but I think I just ran smack into something like this. I was given a list of chores to do as punishment (I hate cleaning). The problem I developed was that as I cleaned I ran across other things that I thought needed to be done and kept adding them to what I was doing. I also started wanting to do things at times that were not convenient. For instance, I was supposed to take down the Christmas ornaments, but when I had time to do it my owners were napping near the tree.

I seem to take too much ownership of what has to be done, when it has to be done and how it should be done. While I could argue that I'm doing it for the good of my owners, and they do appreciate that I use my intelligence and foresight when serving them, ultimately I don't own the tasks, and need to release my hold on things and simply do what I'm told with a happy heart.