submissiveness, could it be genetic?

[redslady]

After reading Eastern Sun’s thread “The marks of a slave” I finally understand my own mother. She was defiantly my father’s slave. I have a submissive nature and with talking to my sister, who is also a sub, I started to wonder could submissiveness be genetic? Has anyone else notices this trend within their own families? Or is it a matter of nature verses nurture?

 

[Homburg]

I'd argue that tendency towards kink/power may well be something you inherit. It's arguable whether it is nature or burture though. Are you a submissive because of your genes, or learned behaviour based off of how you saw your mother act? What about situations where one child is submissive and another is dominant? This is why I say that it may be something gotten from your parents, be it genetic or learned, but not that submissiveness specifically.

In my own case, I've seen MIS's (one of my slaves) family. Her folks have some kink in them, but they do not have a D/s relationship on any strictly delineated level. More like they're both kinky and switchy, and it is bedroom only. Yet MIS is a full-on slave, and her brother is working his way towards admitting his very dominant nature. And I look at her grandparents, and see signs of power (though undeclared I'm sure) relationships there. So she is a slave and her brother is dominant, yet her folks are basically switchy.

In my own case, my mom very much wears the pants in her relationship with my dad, though neither are kinky. I'm dominant and viv, my slave and mother to my kids, is certainly very submissive. We have four kids, and they run the gamut insofar as attitudes go. Eldest daughter is just as hellfire and damnation dominant as I was at her age, youngest daughter is already showing signs of being a little submissive masochist. Eldest son has signs of both. And this is all at a young age.

ETA: Youngest son shows no signs in any direction, but he is a little guy.

I know other foks on here with kids that some show, some don't. So I can't really say. I would argue that a tendency towards kink/power is probably passed on (be it in genes or by observation), but that's it. The child finds him or her self in a role based on whatever factors spawn these things.

 

[myinnerslut]

Master stole my answer. so to further contribute i present these quotes:

"and now its time to spank me"
"but i like being tied up"

~both from his kids

"****, stop leading your brother around on a leash"
"those are not for tying your sister up!"

~both thing i have said to his kids

they are, as we sometimes jokingly call them, "pure-breed kink"

 

[intothewoods]

Sexuality is extremely complicated. I'm certain genetics plays a part, as do your environment and life experiences, but it's a complicated equation.

In my case, if there was any kink between my parents, it was certainly kept in the bedroom. I don't know of any kinky relatives, period. My own kid has a very social, lively and assertive personality, but I don't take that as an indication of anything related to his sexual preference, nor would I characterize his personality as dominant or submissive, in the non-sexual sense of the words. Kinky friends of mine (both Tops) who are married and have a kid together joke privately about their kid's future in kink, but they're more or less just kidding around.

 

[Harmony_1985]

No one I know in my family is involved in kink, and as sure as hell neither of my parents show signs of submissiveness.

I'm just the black sheep

 

[00Syd]

I'd just like to pop in and day that the Nature Vs Nurture debate is obsolete, and science now realizes that the new question is to what degree does your enviornment effect your genes?

But as to the question at hand... no idea. If anyone else in my family is kinky, I sure as hell don't know about it. I'd say that its likely that there is a gene that regulates this aspect of sexuality, but I just might be the only person in my family who has it whos also had some environmental pressure that made it react in whatever way that made me kinky.


(I too an evolutionary biology class this past semester, and my head is still full of it, lol. Sorry )

 

[Cattypuss]

I've got this suspicion that my own sub-ness comes from two things -

(a) growing in a dysfuntional family whereI had to be the "responsible adult" from a very young age (hated that), and

(b) years of high-responsibility jobs, managing people (hated that too).

I love to surrender control and responsibility as a result, I think. Or maybe I was born a sub and was just born into the wrong situation and then went into the wrong career!

 

[Homburg]

Kinky friends of mine (both Tops) who are married and have a kid together joke privately about their kid's future in kink, but they're more or less just kidding around.

I'm in the same boat. I'm not actively saying the kids are kinky. It's more just a running joke. Some observations, such as the similarities between eldest daughter and myself at that age, are not a joke, but more towards social dominance than anything else.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm in the same boat. I'm not actively saying the kids are kinky. It's more just a running joke. Some observations, such as the similarities between eldest daughter and myself at that age, are not a joke, but more towards social dominance than anything else.

Sure, and of course kids at a young age engage in all sorts of imaginative play without any idea of unintended double entendre.

As for myself, I don't think of my own personality to be remarkably dominant or submissive. I have personality traits which might be considered characteristically submissive or dominant (e.g., desire to please, desire to provide good service, wanting to have things my way, assertive), and I see some of those in my kid, but as I know plenty of non-kinky people with these traits, I don't think there's much kink significance there.

 

[Homburg]

*shrug* In my case, it's not a matter of the kid showing some laundry list of traits. It's me looking into a mirror of myself at her age, done female of course.

Girl has mean streak too. That has gotten her in hot water more than once.

 

[Kikori]

Submission is about as genetic as homosexuality.

I'm pretty sure genetics affect your body while influences affect your behavior. :\

 

[yourayouduke]

it could also be growing up with your parents that did it, kids pick up on things and tend to mimic them subcontiously

theres some stat out there were if your parents get divorced your more likely to get divorced, its kinda the same thing

After reading Eastern Sun’s thread “The marks of a slave” I finally understand my own mother. She was defiantly my father’s slave. I have a submissive nature and with talking to my sister, who is also a sub, I started to wonder could submissiveness be genetic? Has anyone else notices this trend within their own families? Or is it a matter of nature verses nurture?

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I think that kink is, to some degree, hardwired into us at birth, and that nurture affects how far we let it into our lives.

Example 1: A young girl I watched grow up through the years, whose parents were (to the eye, at least) as vanilla as you can get. They almost had the beans growing out of their ears. As a child, adolescent and late teen, she was as submissive a personality as I've ever seen. She never said "no," even as a 2-year-old, to anything she was directed to do by anyone who had the slightest aura of authority. On the other hand, as a youth and teen soccer and softball player, she was the definitive team leader in both activities, and team captain of both. Shortly after her 20th birthday, I ran into her at a kink activity, and was surprised to see that she was clearly PYL and comfortable in the role, and took a back seat to no one, PYL or otherwise, older or otherwise. (She did, however, listen to older, more experienced persons of both persuasions - PYL, pyl - consider what was said, and use what she chose of what she had heard.)

Example 2: Another girl I watched grow up, for a shorter period - Number One's six years older sister. In "life," she was socially dominant (though not very socially involved) and not rebellious toward authority, but certainly had her own mind about what she was told (or told to do). Younger sister told me when we talked at kinky venues that older sister was involved in a committed heterosexual Power Exchange relationship... as the pyl.

Example 3: A young man whose parents were long into a Power Exchange relationship, though probably not *verbally defined* as such. (It was clear, however, to just about anyone of a kink persuasion, that the mother ran the household and the father by force of personality and "natural" dominant nature. I doubt, however, that they were involved in the physical aspects of a PE relationship... unless their time in bed was spent with her on top. ) Throughout his youth and adolescence, he showed no signs of kink or social dominance/submission - just a middle-of-the-road type of young person. As a young adult (20s and early 30s), he became involved in a long-term homosexual relationship that again showed no signs of kink or Power Exchange.

My take, from that pair and others I've known, is that some of us have kink as an integral part of our personality (isn't it great?!?!), that it may not achieve its final form until well into adulthood, that our younger selves may not reflect that final form, and that nurture probably has an influence on nature, but not a determinative one.

 

[Harmony_1985]

Submission is about as genetic as homosexuality.

I'm pretty sure genetics affect your body while influences affect your behavior. :\

That's what it boils down to really.

Behaviour isn't affected by your genetic make up, its affected by your brain.

 

[00Syd]

That's what it boils down to really.

Behaviour isn't affected by your genetic make up, its affected by your brain.

Behavior is affected by your genetics. Everything about you is created by your genes, and your genes are influenced by your environment.

 

[Bandit58]

After reading Eastern Sun’s thread “The marks of a slave” I finally understand my own mother. She was defiantly my father’s slave. I have a submissive nature and with talking to my sister, who is also a sub, I started to wonder could submissiveness be genetic? Has anyone else notices this trend within their own families? Or is it a matter of nature verses nurture?

Both my mother and maternal grandmother would be considered to have a submissive nature - their husbands were definitely "head of household". I am naturally submissive, always have been, while my brother exhibits a dominant (sometimes domineering ) attitude to his family especially his wife.

My children however seem to have bucked the trend. My son has some submissive-like tendencies and my daughter has definite dominant ones - Sir and I jokingly refer to her as the Junior Domme

However I'm the only one who seems to have gone on to incorporate a kinky lifestyle into the mix

 

[Harmony_1985]

Behavior is affected by your genetics. Everything about you is created by your genes, and your genes are influenced by your environment.

But behaviour isn't natural, its nurtured.

 

[00Syd]

But behaviour isn't natural, its nurtured.

Behavior is dictated by your genes which are effected in various ways by their environment. The scientific community has, for the most part, come to the conclusion that the nature v. nurture debate is obsolete, and have realized that the new question is to what degree our genes are effected by our environment.

One way to look at it is through the knobs analogy. Think about our genes as various knobs, an 'aggression' knob, and a 'depression' knob, etc. We all have those same knobs, but one person might have their 'agression' knob tuned all the way to 0 by their environment, and so are not at all aggressive, while another person might have their same knob tuned to 5, and so are moderately aggressive, and then a totally different person has their knob tuned to 10, etc.

I know a really good article about it, that I wish I could find, but I can't remember the authors name - ugh.

 

[bitchee62]

After reading Eastern Sun’s thread “The marks of a slave” I finally understand my own mother. She was defiantly my father’s slave. I have a submissive nature and with talking to my sister, who is also a sub, I started to wonder could submissiveness be genetic? Has anyone else notices this trend within their own families? Or is it a matter of nature verses nurture?

I think that in my case my being submissive to Hubby is an aberration for my family; my mother and her mother were very much in charge of their families and relationships with the men in their lives. I was raised to be in charge of my relationships. All of the rest of my mother’s side of the family tends to follow the matriarchal type. As far as I know no one else has any submissive tendencies in my extended family.
I am not submissive except with my Husband and only with him. I prefer that he take charge and make the final decisions, if it has to do with work or things outside of our immediate family I am not very submissive. So in my case it was not learned nor as far as I can tell is it inherited. I spent many years thinking I was wrong(sick) in what I need and what makes us happy, before I quit worrying about what the rest of the world thinks of us.
R.

 

[Netzach]

I think that kink is, to some degree, hardwired into us at birth, and that nurture affects how far we let it into our lives.

Example 1: A young girl I watched grow up through the years, whose parents were (to the eye, at least) as vanilla as you can get. They almost had the beans growing out of their ears. As a child, adolescent and late teen, she was as submissive a personality as I've ever seen. She never said "no," even as a 2-year-old, to anything she was directed to do by anyone who had the slightest aura of authority. On the other hand, as a youth and teen soccer and softball player, she was the definitive team leader in both activities, and team captain of both. Shortly after her 20th birthday, I ran into her at a kink activity, and was surprised to see that she was clearly PYL and comfortable in the role, and took a back seat to no one, PYL or otherwise, older or otherwise. (She did, however, listen to older, more experienced persons of both persuasions - PYL, pyl - consider what was said, and use what she chose of what she had heard.)

That's me, pretty much, as a kid and as a corporate cog and in an academic setting.

Provided it's authority I respect. Once I get the feeling that I'm smarter than the person at the helm, I simply retreat from the environment, no head-butting for me.

Everyone acknowledges that there are submissives who you'd *never* guess were from their vanilla lives, but whoa does everyone shit a brick when you suggest the opposite. Really fucks with the fantasy of the natural alpha Master of the Universe and we can't have that as a kinky people.

An interesting sidenote: my mother is a very submissive personality across the board, sexually, in romantic relationships, in family structure. My life is also a study in hellfuckingfuckno as regarding upbringing and environment.

 

[FurryFury]

I agree. Great post!

Behavior is dictated by your genes which are effected in various ways by their environment. The scientific community has, for the most part, come to the conclusion that the nature v. nurture debate is obsolete, and have realized that the new question is to what degree our genes are effected by our environment.

One way to look at it is through the knobs analogy. Think about our genes as various knobs, an 'aggression' knob, and a 'depression' knob, etc. We all have those same knobs, but one person might have their 'agression' knob tuned all the way to 0 by their environment, and so are not at all aggressive, while another person might have their same knob tuned to 5, and so are moderately aggressive, and then a totally different person has their knob tuned to 10, etc.

I know a really good article about it, that I wish I could find, but I can't remember the authors name - ugh.

 

[cromsgirl]

I also think it is a mixture of genetics and learned behaviors. My mother was submissive as well. I don't think my parents were kinky (and we heard a lot of their sex life and rummaged through their bedroom), but in every day life she deferred to my dad. Granted she grew up in the south in the 50's, so it is possible she was just well programed. As far as I know no one else, even in the extended family, is into kink. ( My sister just about shit a brick when we mentioned it at Thanksgiving) Although, a lot of them are into multiple partners. Crom and I have only been playing for about 2 years now (we've been together for 13 years), but I have always had a submissive personality. Growing up I didn't want to be a doctor or business person, I wanted to be the nurse or the secretary that took care of all the details, so the boss could do what they needed to do. But they were always thankful and praised me for the work that I did. That being said, Crom and I are equals in the relationship outside the bedroom.

 

[bitchee62]

That's me, pretty much, as a kid and as a corporate cog and in an academic setting.

Provided it's authority I respect. Once I get the feeling that I'm smarter than the person at the helm, I simply retreat from the environment, no head-butting for me.

Everyone acknowledges that there are submissives who you'd *never* guess were from their vanilla lives, but whoa does everyone shit a brick when you suggest the opposite. Really fucks with the fantasy of the natural alpha Master of the Universe and we can't have that as a kinky people.

An interesting sidenote: my mother is a very submissive personality across the board, sexually, in romantic relationships, in family structure. My life is also a study in hellfuckingfuckno as regarding upbringing and environment.

Netzach
Perhaps we were switched at birth? my mother has always given me the feeling that I am way too submissive to be HER daughter. You she would very much approve of though(before he became ill my Dad was very much Moms submissive).
I must have gotten it from him.
R.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

.... Everyone acknowledges that there are submissives who you'd *never* guess were from their vanilla lives ....

Like the guy in my former home town who has been a very good - and very scary tough and knowledgeable in court - defense attorney, for homicides only, for the past 25 years or so. Get him in a kink party setting, and he's just the sweetest lil sub/masochist a sadistic Domme could want.

 

[00Syd]

Behavior is dictated by your genes which are effected in various ways by their environment. The scientific community has, for the most part, come to the conclusion that the nature v. nurture debate is obsolete, and have realized that the new question is to what degree our genes are effected by our environment.

One way to look at it is through the knobs analogy. Think about our genes as various knobs, an 'aggression' knob, and a 'depression' knob, etc. We all have those same knobs, but one person might have their 'agression' knob tuned all the way to 0 by their environment, and so are not at all aggressive, while another person might have their same knob tuned to 5, and so are moderately aggressive, and then a totally different person has their knob tuned to 10, etc.

I know a really good article about it, that I wish I could find, but I can't remember the authors name - ugh.

The really good article I was thinking of was actually the introduction to a book, The Moral Animal by Robert Wright.

http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Animal-Science-Evolutionary-Psychology/dp/0679763996

I have the intro as a pdf on my computer somewhere, so if anyone is really, really interested, PM me and I can email it to you.