Update on former NY Gov Spitzer and the prostitution ring

[AllardChardon]

Great post, Liar. That is exactly what I love about this place and why I love having discussions here. There is always some really intelligent person wandering around who speaks up and tells you like it is. Thank you.

Some women have to choose this way of life to fill that need created by the women whose standards are too high to fuck the undesirables or least the undateables. LOL It's a tough job, but SOMEONE has to do it! Not me, thank you very much. I prefer to give it away to those I choose.

 

[Liar]

Some women have to choose this way of life to fill that need created by the women whose standards are too high to fuck the undesirables or least the undateables.

Heh. I don't think the undateables are the main demographic among johns. Te most common sex buyer is rahter the undat-ing. Perfectly average blokes who could get a date, but don't want to make the effort.

I mean, apart from being a sleazy horn dog, Eliot Spitzer is a pretty decent catch. Normal looking, well dressed, rich, educated, sociable. He could definitely have gotten a date. (Ok maybe not now when everyone knows he's goes bareback in his socks, but you know what I mean.) He chould even have gotten a young and attractive date with a little effort, considering his social status and wallet. But he didn't want a date. He wanted a nubile little plaything who didn't have demands, but provided advanced bedroom acrobatics with no strings attached.

The old cliché has some truth: "I don't pay them for sex, I pay them to get the hell out afterwards."

 

[AllardChardon]

Good point about your average john liking to hang with a woman who is there simply to serivce his sexual needs and get compensated for it.

But I do know undesirable men who cannot get a date and do use a prostitute rather than their own hand all the time.

And plenty of the johns are married, because married men can do things to a strange woman that they cannot do to their wives. "She kisses my kids with that mouth" thinking. Madonna/whore complex, IMO.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Good point about your average john liking to hang with a woman who is there simply to serivce his sexual needs and get compensated for it.

But I do know undesirable men who cannot get a date and do use a prostitute rather than their own hand all the time.

And plenty of the johns are married, because married men can do things to a strange woman that they cannot do to their wives. "She kisses my kids with that mouth" thinking. Madonna/whore complex, IMO.

That and there are some things that many wives just refuse to do. Plus the fact that sometimes wives simply withhold sex as a way of "punishing" a man. That kind of tactic no doubt keeps many a prostitute in business. Not to mention that hookers mean less drama than a traditional affair. Most men hate drama in their sex lives.

 

[AllardChardon]

Yes, that whole "you might get some IF you are lucky and do everything I want" excuse American women use instead of doing their marital duty. Duty, ha, haven't heard that term in an eon.

 

[ottohauser1977]

Not really a duty, so much as an expression of continued affection. I think that it is abundantly obvious by now that no one can be required, morally, to engage in coitus against his or her will. But the motives for refusal, I think, should morally be sound, such as a very real dispute in which she is not punishing him, but simply can't get in the mood because she is distracted by pain or anger. It's more moodiness than vindictiveness or a power play. I'm not sure what Herr Max meant, but that makes sense to me.

Though, of course, there is a tiny number of women who do use sex as a weapon. The same with men, but the difference is that the women deliberately deny sex, whereas the men tend to use rape to retaliate and control. But most women are not so deliberately cruel, or even aware that their action is manipulating the man, just as most men don't rape their wives.

 

[AllardChardon]

Okay, so here is the case, not me by the way, of a woman who is in the middle of menopause and she simply loses interest in sex. Her husband has not lost interest and still finds her very attractive but she just won't give because she isn't in the mood, for weeks at a time.

What is the husband supposed to do? Masturbate and wait. Surf LIT is more likely. And then they write to me of their sexual loneliness within their marriage.

And if you have ever tried to tell menopausal woman that she might need some hormones to correct the problem, well, all I can say is, DUCK!

 

[xssve]

Well, I think it works both ways around, there are men who don't like sex or have those fluid superstitions, i.e., they don't want to drain their "vital juices", blah, blah. In fact, it used to always be the women who always complained about being neglected and the men who acted like they were being put upon.

 

[ottohauser1977]

Well, I think it works both ways around, there are men who don't like sex or have those fluid superstitions, i.e., they don't want to drain their "vital juices", blah, blah. In fact, it used to always be the women who always complained about being neglected and the men who acted like they were being put upon.

Another old wives' tale, as shown in the movie The Road To Wellville, which isn't pure fiction. It is based on the story of Dr. Frank Kellogg, the Adventist quack responsible for many breakfast cereals today. He was a prude and a vegetarian, which reminds me of Hitler. There is a fine line between religious fanaticism and fascist ideology.

The notion that sex weakens you can even be seen in the old superstition of athletes who abstained from sex to maintain their physical fitness.

 

[AllardChardon]

True enough. People play with their sexuality like they play at politics, which XssVe has pointed out numerous times.

I knew a guy that I called The Platinum Prick. He was the male counterpart of what I called The Golden Pussy. The Golden Pussy is a woman who thinks her pussy is the greatest on earth and every man should want it, but only the richest will get it.

Well, The Platinum Prick made his potential lovers go through all sorts of rigourous testing and this and that until he found them worthy. He was a masseuse as well, so had plenty of opportunities to check out the woman's body BEFORE ever commiting to sex.

One woman went through all the tests with flying colors and with great anticipation arrived on his doorstep to proclaim the good news and finally make love, just to have him say he had a headache and wasn't in the mood.

I would have walked out on him and never turned back but she became his girlfriend and stayed for a while until he got bored. A great example for me to observe. And I was so grateful I didn't want him as a lover. What a pain in the ass. High maintenance male, for sure.

 

[ottohauser1977]

True enough. People play with their sexuality like they play at politics, which XssVe has pointed out numerous times.

I knew a guy that I called The Platinum Prick. He was the male counterpart of what I called The Golden Pussy. The Golden Pussy is a woman who thinks her pussy is the greatest on earth and every man should want it, but only the richest will get it.

Well, The Platinum Prick made his potential lovers go through all sorts of rigourous testing and this and that until he found them worthy. He was a masseuse as well, so had plenty of opportunities to check out the woman's body BEFORE ever commiting to sex.

One woman went through all the tests with flying colors and with great anticipation arrived on his doorstep to proclaim the good news and finally make love, just to have him say he had a headache and wasn't in the mood.

I would have walked out on him and never turned back but she became his girlfriend and stayed for a while until he got bored. A great example for me to observe. And I was so grateful I didn't want him as a lover. What a pain in the ass. High maintenance male, for sure.

Yes, contrary to myth, men can be prima donnas, too. Of course, most of us don't take 150 k of Republican donations to pay for their wardrobe, but I suppose there might be some who do.

 

[AllardChardon]

Male Prima Donnas. I guess that has to be Primo Donnos, huh? A new phrase. LOL.

Heterosexual males, here. Not gay men. That doesn't count. They are in a league of their own!

Living near the new age community of Mt. Shasta, CA., you see alot of male heterosexual prima donnas floating about. One guy dresses exactly like St Germaine with the beard and long purple velvet robes and insists he is St. Germaine reincarnated.

I could go on for ours about these guys. They rival rock stars, honestly. I can hold my own in that crowd, I must confess. I just no longer prefer their company. We parted at sacred sex being the ONLY way. I happily started writing an erotica novel and joined LIt where people are much more REAL. Thank you.

 

[Arkontheroof]

"In my humble opinion" - and most of us have to be humble about this, as we know no more about either the Spitzer case or prostitution than we've read...

... the Spitzer case is remarkable only because it made the man seem such an utter hypocrite, and showed up his former moral postring as mere political guff. If it weren't for that I for one really wouldn't care about him.

... on the subject of prostitution in general, I recently read a well argued case for the New Zealand system leading to the greatest welfare for prostitutes. In New Zealand prostitution is legal regardless of the "place of business"; by contrast (e.g. Amsterdam or parts of Nevada) legalising prostitution only in "licensed brothels" takes the power out of the hands of the women and into the hands of implicitly exploitative brothel-keepers; driving the whole thing underground, meanwhile, gives no recourse to anyone in any case.

 

[xssve]

Another old wives' tale, as shown in the movie The Road To Wellville, which isn't pure fiction. It is based on the story of Dr. Frank Kellogg, the Adventist quack responsible for many breakfast cereals today. He was a prude and a vegetarian, which reminds me of Hitler. There is a fine line between religious fanaticism and fascist ideology.

The notion that sex weakens you can even be seen in the old superstition of athletes who abstained from sex to maintain their physical fitness.

It's also a common myth among Hindu's, tantric techniques involve training oneself to orgasm without ejaculating, I argued with a guy about it a few months back, sounds like a fast route to a prostrate infection.

Scientifically, the only thing you actually deplete is Zinc, take a Zinc supplement and you're good to go.

 

[AllardChardon]

New Zealand may pave the way for the world. Something has to be decided at some point. I hope it does not remain so unfair to those involved. Sex workers are a necessary part of society, the world's oldest profession, after all, and we could just grow up and accept that fact. No matter what reason a man or woman has for renting someone else's body for sexual purposes, it simply should not be illegal anymore. When will we come out of the closet on this one, I wonder? San Francisco turned their back on decriminalizing it. This is not an easy battle.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I meant only that some small number of women use sex as a weapon, not that sex is a duty. When it becomes a duty, the marriage has bigger problems than sex.

 

[AllardChardon]

Well, back in the olden days, sex was explained to young ladies as a duty that must be performed to keep the husband happy at home. It was not to be enjoyed, though, other than creating children. Yes that was the way it was in 1963 when we first started learning about sex from sex educators. It was a procreation thing only.

I can't remember where I read or saw or heard this, but it seems to hold true.

Show me a wife who doesn't suck cock and I will show a husband that can be stolen.

 

[CheekyGiRL07]

Does anyone know were you can view the Hustler version of Spitzer, fully, not just the wimpy 30 seconds?
I know the actor is not very good looking, but the idea is extremely sexy! (Well, at least to me!)

 

[ottohauser1977]

Show me a wife who doesn't suck cock and I will show a husband that can be stolen.[/QUOTE]

Or one who just steals himself away, as I did.

 

[AllardChardon]

That's a great line. I just can't remember where I saw, heard or read it, for the life of me.

 

[CheekyGiRL07]

Apparently Spitzer is going to be a columnist, someone from the Washington Post said so and his "ex" hooker is going to become a singer...

 

[oggbashan]

One of our local prostitutes, an older woman, joined our Chamber of Commerce.

She paid her subscription, paid her taxes to the Government, ran her business from a business-rated property and didn't have anyone taking her earnings except the Government.

The neighbours were sometimes annoyed by the screams of her customers because she specialised in being a dominatrix, with a fitted but not fully-soundproofed dungeon. She called in one of her fellow Chamber of Commerce members to improve her soundproofing, which was done and a white noise machine installed. The neighbours' concerns were reduced although they were still not happy at being next to a legal prostitution business.

Eventually she had to give up the business and move away because her husband was made redundant and therefore became someone living off her earnings. She couldn't pay the business and domestic bills from her earnings without an income from him as well.

They started up another business, in another town, offering personal counselling and life management skills. She had a degree in psychology and he had diplomas in counselling.

It didn't end happily. He was convicted of receiving stolen goods. Apparently he had a sideline as a criminal fence that she claimed she didn't know about. She was convicted as an accessory and was given a suspended sentence. He went to jail. She divorced him and later on she started work as a shop assistant in a supermarket, rising to become a junior manager described by some of the staff as "seriously scary".

We still regret losing our only "professional ho" as a member of the Chamber of Commerce. It made our Chamber different and somewhat notorious among other Chambers of Commerce. At the time she joined us Og was the Chamber's "Vice"-President.

Og

 

[AllardChardon]

Og, great post but a sad tale. Prostitutes make women uneasy, I think. They threaten their homelife. Not really. But, no ones seems to care enough to change their minds about sex for money. It certainly is okay to give it away, discreetly, of course... LOL

And yes, Spitzer is in the headlines, once again, this time as a financial columnist. Life does go on.

 

[CheekyGiRL07]

See, I envy his wife. I don't think I could stand next to the man without slapping him.

 

[trysail]

Speaking solely from my years of experience as a ( salaried, i.e. non-commissioned and therefore NOT a salesman [ in the parlance of the industry, I spent my life entirely on the "buy-side" ] ) professional investment researcher and investment manager, I was sorry to see Spitzer's fall.

He did A LOT of good as New York's Attorney General by effectively putting an end to many really abusive practices long practiced by the investment bankers, the stockbrokers and far too many mutual funds. It was high time and long, long overdue.

The "high tech" IPO bubble and boondoggle that went on from 1996-1999 was partially enabled by horrific conflicts of interest between underwriters, issuers and corrupt securities analysts. The minority of "honest" people employed in the field were well aware of what was going on as thousands of irresponsible "research" reports were written by "analysts" who were cowed by threats from the investment bankers.

In another case, large mutual fund complexes were routinely allowing fund managers to make after-market-close-purchases by favored clients ( thereby baldly violating their fiduciary obligation to the rest of the mutual fund investors ).

Over the course of my career, I was aware of far too many shady practices that were tolerated with knowing winks. I can't tell you how absolutely thrilling and satisfying it was to see somebody FINALLY expose the thieves for the frauds that they were.

I was brought up to hold a deep suspicion of and an abiding hatred of Wall Street. The vast majority of people employed in that arena cannot be trusted because it is nothing more than a gigantic marketing machine.

This post on Elliot Spitzer and my comments are solely related to this aspect of his career.