Black President (not political)

[gauchecritic]

Is he really black?

We were discussing this at home and the feeling was that Obama isn't really all that black.

We're talking here mainly about physical appearance. I think I mentioned in a thread a while ago that because the Indian sub-continent is populated by what might be classed as dark skinned Caucasians they are generally tolerated more because they're not 'obviously' black. (and they speak better English in general)

The eldest lad said he'd seen a poster with Mcain blacked up and Obama whited up. (with a stupid strapline saying 'This isn't about race')

Obama (as white) could easily be a wasp. His background could be wasp. His policies (as far as I'm aware) are pro middle class.

It's been touted by many that America is finally done with racism.

My question (such as it is) Do curly hair and 'big blubbery lips' make that much difference?

 

[cloudy]

His background is wasp-ish, yes, but to me the importance of his race is the message that skin color isn't something that will hold anyone back anymore.

It's a lovely thing, too.

It wouldn't have mattered to me if he'd been white, red, green, blue - I voted his message and his hope against my innate cynicism. I keeping my fingers crossed that most of this country has outgrown the color thing.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's been touted by many that America is finally done with racism.

My question (such as it is) Do curly hair and 'big blubbery lips' make that much difference?

Not true, and yes. Sadly.

Myself, I voted for the man because he's the classiest gentleman in decades.
Period.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Is he really black?

We were discussing this at home and the feeling was that Obama isn't really all that black.

We're talking here mainly about physical appearance. I think I mentioned in a thread a while ago that because the Indian sub-continent is populated by what might be classed as dark skinned Caucasians they are generally tolerated more because they're not 'obviously' black. (and they speak better English in general)

The eldest lad said he'd seen a poster with Mcain blacked up and Obama whited up. (with a stupid strapline saying 'This isn't about race')

Obama (as white) could easily be a wasp. His background could be wasp. His policies (as far as I'm aware) are pro middle class.

It's been touted by many that America is finally done with racism.

My question (such as it is) Do curly hair and 'big blubbery lips' make that much difference?

In my opinion, at least 95% (just a guess) of the people in the US put more stock in what a person does and says than in appearance, including race. Curly hair is frequently seen by white people as a desirable physical trait. I now have eight pesons living in my household, and the other seven have lips that are bigger and more blubbery than mine.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Not true, and yes. Sadly.

Myself, I voted for the man because he's the classiest gentleman in decades.
Period.

He's classy, intelligent, I agree with him on more issues than McCain, he didn't have Palin on his team...

 

[Boxlicker101]

When Obama became a leading contender for the nomination, I heard of some persons saying he was African American, but not Black, because he was not descended from slaves. I thought they were wrong about the lack of slavery in his ancestry. Various forms of slavery were quite common in both Africa and Europe, and both his mother and father were probably descended from slaves because of it.

 

[cloudy]

When Obama became a leading contender for the nomination, I heard of some persons saying he was African American, but not Black, because he was not descended from slaves. I thought they were wrong about the lack of slavery in his ancestry. Various forms of slavery were quite common in both Africa and Europe, and both his mother and father were probably descended from slaves because of it.

what fucking difference does that make?

 

[TheeGoatPig]

what fucking difference does that make?

Seeing as how everyone is probably related to an enslaved civilization at some point in their history? Not one bit of difference to me.

 

[cloudy]

Seeing as how everyone is probably related to an enslaved civilization at some point in their history? Not one bit of difference to me.

My point exactly.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
When Obama became a leading contender for the nomination, I heard of some persons saying he was African American, but not Black, because he was not descended from slaves. I thought they were wrong about the lack of slavery in his ancestry. Various forms of slavery were quite common in both Africa and Europe, and both his mother and father were probably descended from slaves because of it.

what fucking difference does that make?

None at all. I was just expressing disagreement with the other persons I mentioned. Probably most people in the world are descended from slaves, if you go back far enough.

 

[cloudy]

None at all. I was just expressing disagreement with the other persons I mentioned. Probably most people in the world are descended from slaves, if you go back far enough.

...and your point is????

 

[BlackSnake]

His background is wasp-ish, yes, but to me the importance of his race is the message that skin color isn't something that will hold anyone back anymore.

It's a lovely thing, too.

It wouldn't have mattered to me if he'd been white, red, green, blue - I voted his message and his hope against my innate cynicism. I keeping my fingers crossed that most of this country has outgrown the color thing.

I don't see him as an African-American male. He is of mixed race.

 

[jomar]

Is he really black?

It's been touted by many that America is finally done with racism.

My question (such as it is) Do curly hair and 'big blubbery lips' make that much difference?

I may get some flack here, but Obama is a 'safe' black for many, both in looks, dress and behavior. If he were more like, say, Cornel West of Princeton Univ (you've seen him in the Matrix and on Bill Maher; he's smart, witty and has some good stuff to say), Obama would never have been on the ticket at this point in time. So, for now, I think looks make a difference. But that goes for all candidates - recall the Kennedy/Nixon debate where Kennedy looked fresh and pretty and Nixon looked like a thug simply because he wasn't freshly shaved.

Having said that, Obama's presence and behavior transcended race and that spoke volumes. He had a calm and steady demeanor throughout the campaign and stayed the course, if you will. His biracialness and citizen of the world background elevated his presence at exactly the right time in history.

Racism is not over. You're probably aware, but racism is also present among blacks themselves, not just between races. Hopefully, his win will help.

I entered the primary voting booth with a mind to vote for Clinton. At the last second I voted for Obama. And am glad I did. I hope he'll be a good Daddy.

 

[Weird Harold]

Is he really black?

We were discussing this at home and the feeling was that Obama isn't really all that black.

I've heard a few disparage him as an "Oreo" but yes, he's really "black" to almost anyone who makes that kind of distinction. To some, like my mother, his being "mixed race" is of more concern than qualifying as "legally black" by Jim Crow definitions.

We're talking here mainly about physical appearance.

I don't think his physical appearance made much difference to those who openly opposed him, but not looking like a sterotypical caricature "Black" probably didn't hurt him any either.

 

[Luke's Angel]

Is he really black?

We were discussing this at home and the feeling was that Obama isn't really all that black.

We're talking here mainly about physical appearance. I think I mentioned in a thread a while ago that because the Indian sub-continent is populated by what might be classed as dark skinned Caucasians they are generally tolerated more because they're not 'obviously' black. (and they speak better English in general)

The eldest lad said he'd seen a poster with Mcain blacked up and Obama whited up. (with a stupid strapline saying 'This isn't about race')

Obama (as white) could easily be a wasp. His background could be wasp. His policies (as far as I'm aware) are pro middle class.

It's been touted by many that America is finally done with racism.

My question (such as it is) Do curly hair and 'big blubbery lips' make that much difference?

The answer to your question depends on what you mean when you say black. Obviously half his ancestry is from Kenya and the other half is from England by way of the US. Dunham is a very English name don't you think?

 

[sr71plt]

Personal preferences aside, American society apparently is still clinging to the "one-drop rule" (that even one drop of African blood designates someone as black) in practice. This rule was established in U.S. law by the U.S. Supreme Court in the early 19th century in Plessy vs. Ferguson, but was overturned by the Court in 1967 in Loving vs. Virginia. Unfortunately, it has been applied by some states more recently than that and the Supreme Court has failed to take up the cases, so the application has been left standing in a de facto sense. On the federal level, individuals are left to self-declare--at least where blacks are concerned. (For Native Americans, they still turn to formulas established in treaties struck with the separate NA nations/tribes.)

It would appear to me that Obama has identified as black, which I'd say was his privilege to do.

 

[Carnevil9]

I find it sad that America elected such a socialist, gratifying that society as a whole didn't care that he is part black, but ultimately sad that America as a whole can't stop patting themselves on the back for electing a black man. I thought we were supposed to be color-blind?.....Carney

 

[Safe_Bet]

I find it sad that America elected such a socialist, gratifying that society as a whole didn't care that he is part black, but ultimately sad that America as a whole can't stop patting themselves on the back for electing a black man. I thought we were supposed to be color-blind?.....Carney

No. WE are color blind. YOU are a drive by Fascist asshole.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

It would appear to me that Obama has identified as black, which I'd say was his privilege to do.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say...

I don't disagree (or argue) with someone who self-identifies as... whatever. Black, caucasian, American Indian, gay, straight... even if it's apparent that it may not be, ya know, 100% true, or "proven" or whatever.

I may silently disagree or even scratch my head in wonder but I don't argue. If they identify as such, then it's part of who they are, or want to be... to me, that's more important (and often, more interesting!) than "fact."

 

[Liar]

I don't see him as an African-American male. He is of mixed race.

I've heard that sentiment from other Black Americans too. Not in a denigrating way, or a "we against them" kind of thing. Just as a matter of fact. Obama is of mixed race. Which is of course true.

But the confusion starts when that is coupled with "So he's not Black, like me". Considering how many of those with slave ancestry also have white folks in their bloodline, either from the old days, or from later, mixed coupling generations, aren't quite a lot of African-Americans actually more or less bi-racial too? I see many people who identify themselves as Black, who are lighter in skin than Obama.

It's a curious thing this. People talk much more about cultural heritage than race really. What they really say is that there's a difference between having the Roots, having American slave ancestry, and not. But they use the terms of race when they do so, not terms of culture and history.

I mean, for instance, is this rather famous woman, African-American?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Halle_Berry_-_USS_Kearsarge_a.jpg/200px-Halle_Berry_-_USS_Kearsarge_a.jpg

Some would say yes, since her father is from that heritage.

But a guy whose father is actually African? No, that's something else, apparently.

Methinks we need to define what's what.

Or alternatively, not care what's what. But maybe society isn't quite there yet.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Obama's black enough to be a symbol for being black, and that's what matters. In point of fact he's half black and half white and culturally he's American.

That is, he's post-racial.

 

[neonlyte]

He's an American, with a black ancestor. The black community identifies with him whereas he went out of his way to identify with all Americans, as the voting shows. Picking up 93% of black voters only gave him 11.5% of votes cast. It made a difference, who is to say it wouldn't have made a difference if he'd declared himself white?

Enough with the black, yellow, red, white and coloured already. How did the Jewish community vote?

 

[Shwenn]

gauchecritic,

This is the 'tyrrany of the discontinuous mind'.

The human mind yearns to categorize. We seem to need for things to be discrete. We dislike transitory or median states.

Richard Dawkins has a very interesting discussion of this in The Ancestor's Tale. It is in the Salamander's Tale and it's application to human racial divides is touches on in The Grasshopper's Tale.

It's a great book. I highly recommend it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

He's an American, with a black ancestor. The black community identifies with him whereas he went out of his way to identify with all Americans, as the voting shows. Picking up 93% of black voters only gave him 11.5% of votes cast. It made a difference, who is to say it wouldn't have made a difference if he'd declared himself white?

Enough with the black, yellow, red, white and coloured already. How did the Jewish community vote?

Obama carried NY and FL, so he must have done alright with the Jewish vote.

 

[gauchecritic]

gauchecritic,

This is the 'tyrrany of the discontinuous mind'.

The human mind yearns to categorize. We seem to need for things to be discrete. We dislike transitory or median states.

Well that was my point really. His skin colour identifies him as black. His physiognomy identifies him as white. Which makes him acceptably black to both sides.