Thin-skinned writers

[kromen]

Wow. I recently read a story and while it was a good premise, there were a lot of gaps in the writing. This was the first submission for this author and I voted and left what I though was a fair criticism of her work. I praised the parts that were good and gave her what i thought was encouragement and direction for her next submission. The only other comment on the story was "Hot. Can't wait till the sequel". I happened upon it a couple of days later to see what other comments were left, but alas, the only one left was "Hot......"

Is it just that some people are too thin-skinned? They did ask for comments and I thought I was constructive, but now I feel like I may have crushed their dreams.

 

[sr71plt]

Wow. I recently read a story and while it was a good premise, there were a lot of gaps in the writing. This was the first submission for this author and I voted and left what I though was a fair criticism of her work. I praised the parts that were good and gave her what i thought was encouragement and direction for her next submission. The only other comment on the story was "Hot. Can't wait till the sequel". I happened upon it a couple of days later to see what other comments were left, but alas, the only one left was "Hot......"

Is it just that some people are too thin-skinned? They did ask for comments and I thought I was constructive, but now I feel like I may have crushed their dreams.

This is a story reading site; it isn't advertised as a writing critique site. If you don't want to be bitten, the best thing is probably not to play the negative-comment writing critic even when they ask for comments. I'd guess that about 99 percent of those asking for comments are only really asking for praise. And I'd say that a misperception of reality falls on both sides the equation here.

 

[kromen]

Good point. I guess some people just want to hear, " I jerked off in my boot, twice". I guess I feel the same way when someone attacks my characters instead of my writing.

 

[Edward Teach]

Wow. I recently read a story and while it was a good premise, there were a lot of gaps in the writing. This was the first submission for this author and I voted and left what I though was a fair criticism of her work. I praised the parts that were good and gave her what i thought was encouragement and direction for her next submission. The only other comment on the story was "Hot. Can't wait till the sequel". I happened upon it a couple of days later to see what other comments were left, but alas, the only one left was "Hot......"

Is it just that some people are too thin-skinned? They did ask for comments and I thought I was constructive, but now I feel like I may have crushed their dreams.

Many writers do have thin skins and don't really want criticism, that's for sure. I don't know exactly how the PC feature was meant to be used, but I've always considered it to be for "book cover" type blurbs--"exciting story, Mr. Hemingway captures the very essence of watching a bull fight"--and sent any criticism to the author in a PM or email. That may be why PC's can be deleted, I don't know.

 

[loganforester]

Many writers do have thin skins and don't really want criticism, that's for sure. I don't know exactly how the PC feature was meant to be used, but I've always considered it to be for "book cover" type blurbs--"exciting story, Mr. Hemingway captures the very essence of watching a bull fight"--and sent any criticism to the author in a PM or email. That may be why PC's can be deleted, I don't know.

I'm not sure of the intent of the PC function. I know myself, that I would only delete coments if they are off topic or ad hominem in nature and that hasn't happened yet.

 

[CWatson]

Thirded. If I have a critique of the person's story, I send it via e-mail. It's just politer, instead of splashing it up in public where other people can read it. It makes the author look bad and, frankly, it makes the commenter look bad too.

As to thin-skinned writers... Well, as my choir director put it, "Hell is getting what you asked for." Some people aren't ready to hear honest criticism, no matter how well-meaning. But as I see it, that's their problem. When I read a good story, I try to encourage the author by telling them what they've done well, and by telling them what they could do better. But, to misquote F. Scott Fitzgerald, talent is parcelled out unevenly at birth; how much talent you have is not under your control. What is under your control is your enthusiasm, willingness to work, willingness to learn... Under your control is a quality best described as "wanna". And, between "talent" and "wanna", the latter is more important.

So, let's put it this way: when I see a good story, I try to encourage the writer to treat themselves as someone who is capable of greatness. That, of course, involves getting better, and not all of them want to. As I see it, that's their mistake to make. If they plan to waste their god-given talent, then screw them--I've much better things to do with my time.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

When I was a kid gold stars were rare and solid performance was demanded. Nowadays everyone gets a gold star just for showing up some of the time. So people get to thinking theyre doing pretty okay when they arent.

SR71PLT is correct. Peeps want confirmation that theyre still doing great things.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

I'd love an honest assessment of my work. Those are few and far between.

What I receive instead are bashers. The comments go from shit, shit, shit, to why are you still writing here, to you should kill yourself or this is really bad, the worse story I've ever read. Then some of them have the nerve to write that I can't take constructive criticism. Where in any of that are there any helpful suggestions for improvement (lol).

I love the ones who 1 bomb my story and then leave a comment with a 5 vote knowing full well that their second vote doesn't count. How do I know? Because whenever one of my stories hits, no matter how good or how bad it is, I'm greeted by a dozen 1 votes and a total score of 1.

If it wasn't for the people who have serious emotional problems, this site could be so much better. Then, again, if people didn't have serious emotional problems, this site wouldn't exist (lol).

 

[Darkniciad]

I've always thought of the PC board as a place for positive comments only as well. I'll occasionally point out a little flub in a PC, but only if it is overwhelmed by having far more positive things to say. Otherwise, I send an email.

As to comments on my stories, I leave them all up. I do have criteria to delete a PC, but I've never had one that met it *laugh*

 

[Vermilion]

Thirded. If I have a critique of the person's story, I send it via e-mail. It's just politer, instead of splashing it up in public where other people can read it. It makes the author look bad and, frankly, it makes the commenter look bad too.

As to thin-skinned writers... Well, as my choir director put it, "Hell is getting what you asked for." Some people aren't ready to hear honest criticism, no matter how well-meaning. But as I see it, that's their problem. When I read a good story, I try to encourage the author by telling them what they've done well, and by telling them what they could do better. But, to misquote F. Scott Fitzgerald, talent is parcelled out unevenly at birth; how much talent you have is not under your control. What is under your control is your enthusiasm, willingness to work, willingness to learn... Under your control is a quality best described as "wanna". And, between "talent" and "wanna", the latter is more important.

So, let's put it this way: when I see a good story, I try to encourage the writer to treat themselves as someone who is capable of greatness. That, of course, involves getting better, and not all of them want to. As I see it, that's their mistake to make. If they plan to waste their god-given talent, then screw them--I've much better things to do with my time.

hear hear!

And as a writer this is the kind of criticism that I would hope to receive. Whilst I might prefer to receive it in a PM, I would nevertheless leave a critical PC in place, as long as it really was useful criticism and not just bashing... though I have left bashing comments up, as long as they're not personal. I think I;ve only had one comment that I had to delete and that had nothing to do with my writing whatsoever.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BFW

The problems you cite are the reasons LIT isnt a good place to showcase your wares. Plus readers steal whatever isnt on fire.

A great story is like an excellent chunk of marble or slab of wood or hunk of diamond. If the story is interesting enough no one pays much attention to the minor flaws. Except maybe SR71PLT.

 

[SweetWitch]

When I first started out here, I was still pretty green. I'd been writing since I was a child, but had no real audience to write to, other than a teacher or two.

Lit has been a great tool for me. There are times when the comments I've received have caused a bit of angst, but for the most part, the real critiques have helped. I've only deleted two comments that I can remember, both on the same story, and both posters of said comments were more intent on attacking each other than any real critique of my work.

The readers and the fine editors I've met here (especially our beloved Techsan, may he rest in peace) have helped me to find my weaknesses and grow as a writer. There are the usual gushing comments that serve no purpose other than to stroke my ego (bless them ) and nasty ones designed to attack the writer and not the story, but wading through them to find the gems is quite easy.

I didn't come here to be praised. I came here to learn to be a better writer. I'd like to think that I succeeded, at least to some extent. I'd also like to think that my skin is not so thin that I can't take what's dished out. If you post to my stories, about my stories, the comment will always be viewable for everyone to see.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Comments are all very well, but I generally know if a story is good or not. Being read is great, but being assessed is not really what I'm about.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

Comments are all very well, but I generally know if a story is good or not. Being read is great, but being assessed is not really what I'm about.

Yeah, I agree with you. As a writer, you can tell if your write pearls or poops. You just know when a story is good and is the best that you can write. That is, until next year, when you revisit what you wrote and say..."How the Hell could I think that was any good?"

Then, again, if you have a piece and that passes the test of time, when you return to read it, you just marvel at what you wrote and proudly say, "Wow, this is good. This is really good. I can't believe I wrote this."

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BFW

Total bullshit.

Maybe 1% of writers have the ability to recognize competent writing. This view is validated by the fact that most editors and publishers reject masterpieces and hugely popular books. All these assclowns know is what they like. Otherwise publishing and movie making would be a cinch for financial success.

 

[sxwriter42]

I think there's a couple of issues. First, new writers will tend to be thinner skinned. Part of becoming a writer is learning how to take criticism. I've seen it in the playwriting world and in beginning writing classes... 'younger' writers (regardless of age) are pretty vulnerable. The other aspect is how to couch constructive criticism. If someone says: this really didn't do it for me, this was missing, structure was problematic, I certainly take that to heart. However, if the post is prefaced with 'Do you think we're all idiots?' or 'This was a total piece of excrement', I don't really see the point of leaving something with an attacking tone up there and moderate them out (luckily, I haven't gotten too many of those.) I do find it funny though, that you'll tend to get more negative comments if you've let people down. If you've written somethign that's in the 4.7 plus range you'll often just get a couple of 'loved it' comments, but they will vote.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SXWRITER

Most people are too thick-skulled to get subtlety. You must brain them to get their attention.

Looking back 60 years, my best critics were the people who saw my bilge waste for what it was and called a spade a spade.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

BFW

Total bullshit.

Maybe 1% of writers have the ability to recognize competent writing. This view is validated by the fact that most editors and publishers reject masterpieces and hugely popular books. All these assclowns know is what they like. Otherwise publishing and movie making would be a cinch for financial success.

Ah, so you are a believer that a writer should relinquish control of his work for the sake of being published?

I don't want to publish. I'm not looking to publish. I write because I must, otherwise, I wouldn't have written and posted nearly 600 stories to Literotica.

I disagree with your 1% statistic of writers being able to recognize competent writing. Writing is as subjective as it is abitrary. What I like, you may not like and vice versa.

Yet, I know when I read something that is a well written piece by another writer just as I know when something that a writer has written gives me a sudden headache.

Now, we who write know when we write something good, our best effort. That's not to say that we are Hemingways. It is to say that we have reached our level of writing competence at that point in time. That's all that I'm saying.

Publishers, as are editors and writers, are all different animals. Editors want to tighten the work and struggle over a comma. Publishers know the market and knows what sells, even if it is poorly written.

Yeah, look for Palin to be writing her life fuckin' story soon. Gees, I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Writers on the other hand are the masterminds. They created the work from nothing. It is their baby to keep to themselves or to share it with the world. No one can teach someone how to write. Sure, you can teach the basics, but it's one of those things that either you have it or you don't.

Lastly, I have no idea what it is you are ranting about with your last two comments.

"All these assclowns know is what they like. Otherwise publishing and movie making would be a cinch for financial success."

Actually, it is sometimes a cinch for financial success. Sometimes, it is who you know and/or who you are.

 

[fieryjen]

When I first started out here, I was still pretty green. I'd been writing since I was a child, but had no real audience to write to, other than a teacher or two.

Lit has been a great tool for me. There are times when the comments I've received have caused a bit of angst, but for the most part, the real critiques have helped. I've only deleted two comments that I can remember, both on the same story, and both posters of said comments were more intent on attacking each other than any real critique of my work.

The readers and the fine editors I've met here (especially our beloved Techsan, may he rest in peace) have helped me to find my weaknesses and grow as a writer. There are the usual gushing comments that serve no purpose other than to stroke my ego (bless them ) and nasty ones designed to attack the writer and not the story, but wading through them to find the gems is quite easy.

I didn't come here to be praised. I came here to learn to be a better writer. I'd like to think that I succeeded, at least to some extent. I'd also like to think that my skin is not so thin that I can't take what's dished out. If you post to my stories, about my stories, the comment will always be viewable for everyone to see.

Exactly my position too. Well said, Molly.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BFW

Nope. Your thesis doesnt account for John Updike. Even his mom wouldnt read the crap he writes. I figure he has lips that can suck chrome off bumpers, and his lips are his real talent.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

BFW

Nope. Your thesis doesnt account for John Updike. Even his mom wouldnt read the crap he writes. I figure he has lips that can suck chrome off bumpers, and his lips are his real talent.

I think you've been around one too many vehicles. What does lips have to do with writing?

Wait...did Angelina Jolie write a book? What's it called? Are their nude photos of her?

Sorry, I digress.

Actually, I know what a great writer John Updike was, I don't know anything about his mother. She may have been as illiterate as you are for all that I know.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BTW

Nope. Florence King calls Updike dogshit. Let me post her article about him.

http://books.google.com/books?id=dU...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

TOO FUNNY, TOO TRUE

 

[sweetness6280]

When I first started out here, I was still pretty green. I'd been writing since I was a child, but had no real audience to write to, other than a teacher or two.

Lit has been a great tool for me. There are times when the comments I've received have caused a bit of angst, but for the most part, the real critiques have helped. I've only deleted two comments that I can remember, both on the same story, and both posters of said comments were more intent on attacking each other than any real critique of my work.

The readers and the fine editors I've met here (especially our beloved Techsan, may he rest in peace) have helped me to find my weaknesses and grow as a writer. There are the usual gushing comments that serve no purpose other than to stroke my ego (bless them ) and nasty ones designed to attack the writer and not the story, but wading through them to find the gems is quite easy.

I didn't come here to be praised. I came here to learn to be a better writer. I'd like to think that I succeeded, at least to some extent. I'd also like to think that my skin is not so thin that I can't take what's dished out. If you post to my stories, about my stories, the comment will always be viewable for everyone to see.

This is the reason I came to Lit.

I am very green. I only have one story posted. Part of that is because I'm a perfectionist, and I don't let go of stories, although I'm trying to learn. Part of it is because life events this year have affected my ability to write. It is beginning to flow again.

I want feedback. Maybe because I am used to an academic setting, where I get critiqued by professors and my peers. I hate receiving a paper with just a grade on it; I want to see the comments. The grade is nice, but the comments are what help me grow as a writer.

The same is true of my fledgling attempts at fiction. I don't want a "pat" answer, I want to know what a reader liked and didn't like about the story. (LOL, not plural since there is only one right now) I have received emails with very good critiques, citing positives and negatives. I read them and take them to heart. In the end, I may not agree with a critique, but when one is offered sincerely, I pay attention.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SWEETNESS

Everyone gets gold stars at the Special Olympics and no perfesser is stupid enough to leave a record of their thoughts on a class assigment. The bottomline is: Almost no Special Olympians get major league job offers, they dont play Monday Night Football. Special Olympians migrate to LIT and post stories for other Special Olympians to harpoon.

 

[rgraham666]

The other aspect is how to couch constructive criticism. If someone says: this really didn't do it for me, this was missing, structure was problematic, I certainly take that to heart. However, if the post is prefaced with 'Do you think we're all idiots?' or 'This was a total piece of excrement', I don't really see the point of leaving something with an attacking tone up there and moderate them out (luckily, I haven't gotten too many of those.)

This is my feeling when I critique or edited. I try to say at least as many good things about the piece as bad. A person has to know what they've done right at least as much as they've done wrong.

My attitude comes from where and when I grew up. The best I could expect in the way of feedback on anything I did was nothing. About once a year I'd get a 'well done'. The rest of the time it was nasty criticism, with an unspoken air of 'you're such an fucking idiot.'

Needless to say I'm not fond of that sort of thing and try to avoid acting that way myself.