Joe Biden

[Selena_Kitt]

The Rape Kit DNA Analysis Backlog Elimination Act of 2002 and the The DNA Sexual Assault Justice Act of 2002 would have solved the problem. (Clinton and Biden were both involved in bringing them to congress.) They didn't pass. But perhaps with a democrat in the white house and democratic congress...

 

[Belegon]

Box, you have gotten so hardcore over the last month that if Sarah were to come out and say that Michael Jordon was clearly an alien due to his flying abilities, you would post links to Nike commercials and say she was on to something.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Actually, it's not a bad idea, if you can get the insurance companies to pay the bill. If you can't, for whatever reason, the local jurisdiction would have to pay for it.

Do you have any statistics to support your contentions about the crime ratres in Wasilla? Because it such a small place, I doubt that they would have much meaning.

BTW, don't get the idea that I am defending criminals, because I am not. However, I will always defend the truth against mud slinging.

Statistics aren't needed, numbers mean shit to anyone who is being brutalized. We need results not numbers, we need lawyers and judges who are trained and sympathetic. We need to stop pampering those assholes who go to jail, giving them all the comforts of home for ruining the lives of others.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Statistics aren't needed, numbers mean shit to anyone who is being brutalized. We need results not numbers, we need lawyers and judges who are trained and sympathetic. We need to stop pampering those assholes who go to jail, giving them all the comforts of home for ruining the lives of others.

Agreed. I just think that the attempt to find more sources of funding to test the rape kits, however imperfect, is an attempt at doing just that. If it was me or a member of my family, I'd much rather hear "In order to try to test as many rape kits as possible, we are going to ask your insurance company to view this as a medical examination and assist in paying for it" than "Due to our lack of funding, we won't be able to test this kit unless you can provide us with the name of someone to test it against."

 

[BlackShanglan]

The Rape Kit DNA Analysis Backlog Elimination Act of 2002 and the The DNA Sexual Assault Justice Act of 2002 would have solved the problem. (Clinton and Biden were both involved in bringing them to congress.) They didn't pass. But perhaps with a democrat in the white house and democratic congress...

I would love to see that become a top priority. I can think of few other crimes where such crucial evidence is available in such quantity, yet remains untested and thus unavailable.

 

[sr71plt]

Rape is a crime against the community. Using a rape kit helps in the investigation and prosecution of a crime against the community. I think the community should pay for it and not distress the rape victim either in short-term discussion on who pays or in long-term discussion with a insurance company on how this affects future coverage. What about the rape victim who doesn't have insurance? Would this be yet another example of those of us who do pay for our coverage being asked to pay both for our exams and for those who don't have coverage?

 

[impressive]

Other victims aren't charged for the investigations of their attacks.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Other victims aren't charged for the investigations of their attacks.

They are, however, charged for medical treatment for the results of the attacks. The nature of this crime blurs those lines.

Don't get me wrong; I agree with sr71plt. It's a crime against the community, and the whole community has a vested interest in funding the investigation and solving the crime. That's the way it should work. If, however, the funding wasn't there, I don't fault an attempt to get the testing done by hook or by crook. As distressing as it is to have to broach the topic of insurance payment with a rape victim, it has to be much more distressing to tell her that the money simply is not there and the kit won't be tested.

 

[Liar]

They are, however, charged for medical treatment for the results of the attacks. The nature of this crime blurs those lines.

Medical treatment?

Thought it was a forensic investigation. Where the victim is part of the crime scene.

Is an autopsy medical treatment of a murder victim?

Or have I completely misunderstood what a rape examination is?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Box, you have gotten so hardcore over the last month that if Sarah were to come out and say that Michael Jordon was clearly an alien due to his flying abilities, you would post links to Nike commercials and say she was on to something.

I like to think I am akin to the little boy who saw the emperor was naked and was not afraid to say so.

On this forum we have a few very rigid idealogues, and some of them tend to say untrue things about those they oppose, mostly McCain and Palin. A good example is SK complaining about rape kits in Wasilla and her misstating the crime statistics there. Whenever I can, I will challenge them and try to prove they are wrong.

If I know that people are making eroneous statements, especially when it is deliberate, I will point them out, regardless of the target of those statements. I try to avoid singling out any specific group, but most of those with whom I disagree favor Obama, who is a good and honorable man. I am not intending to paraphrase Mark Anthony there. I really mean that.

At the same times, expressions of opinion, especially toward who will win the election, are just opinions and, although I may disagree, I will only respond if challenged.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Actually, it's not a bad idea, if you can get the insurance companies to pay the bill. If you can't, for whatever reason, the local jurisdiction would have to pay for it.

Do you have any statistics to support your contentions about the crime ratres in Wasilla? Because it such a small place, I doubt that they would have much meaning.

BTW, don't get the idea that I am defending criminals, because I am not. However, I will always defend the truth against mud slinging.

Statistics aren't needed, numbers mean shit to anyone who is being brutalized. We need results not numbers, we need lawyers and judges who are trained and sympathetic. We need to stop pampering those assholes who go to jail, giving them all the comforts of home for ruining the lives of others.

I agree, 100%, and I think everybody on this forum, except maybe Ami, does too. However, that is a different subject.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Medical treatment?

Thought it was a forensic investigation. Where the victim is part of the crime scene.

Is an autopsy medical treatment of a murder victim?

Or have I completely misunderstood what a rape examination is?

It's a medical examination to determine what physical evidence of rape, if any, is present.

Some of that evidence may be in the form of injuries requiring medical attention. The nature of the examination itself is medical in scope and requires medically trained personel.

Hence the blurring. If I'm struck with an object and require both treatment to heal me and a careful attempt to pick the paint chips from the weapon out of my wounds in hopes of identifying it, I wouldn't be all that shocked to find the charge on my insurance. In fact, I wouldn't even be shocked to see that happen if the police surgeon only collected the chips and someone else later administered the stitches. It's all medical; some of it is also forensic.

But again - and I really hate to repeat it so often, but it keeps being left out of people's responses - I don't think that this is the best way to deal with funding. I'd rather see the deparment funded to test all rape kits promptly and to put the information into CODIS. However, if the police department did not have the money to test all rape kits, I'd rather see them try this than store the kit untested.

 

[Boxlicker101]

The Rape Kit DNA Analysis Backlog Elimination Act of 2002 and the The DNA Sexual Assault Justice Act of 2002 would have solved the problem. (Clinton and Biden were both involved in bringing them to congress.) They didn't pass. But perhaps with a democrat in the white house and democratic congress...

Can you tell us the official name or names of those bills? I tried to find them in John McCain's voting record, but they weren't there, either as Yea, Nay or Not Voting.

Maybe you can find them.

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270

 

[impressive]

But again - and I really hate to repeat it so often, but it keeps being left out of people's responses - I don't think that this is the best way to deal with funding. I'd rather see the deparment funded to test all rape kits promptly and to put the information into CODIS. However, if the police department did not have the money to test all rape kits, I'd rather see them try this than store the kit untested.

I agree, Shang. However, if the police department lacks funding, then where was the request for more -- so that it WOULD be able to provide this necessary service? Why, instead of placing the burden on the victim (or the victim's insurance), wasn't the requisite funding allocated? It seems the "crime" here is not that the alternative was considered as a short-term band-aid -- but that it appears to have been put forth as a solution FIRST and without the caveat that it was a temporary measure until adequate funding could be secured. The approach hints at several underlying philosophies... all of which are repugnant to me.

 

[impressive]

Can you tell us the official name or names of those bills? I tried to find them in John McCain's voting record, but they weren't there, either as Yea, Nay or Not Voting.

Maybe you can find them.

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270

Google is your friend:


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s107-2513


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s107-2318

 

[Boxlicker101]

Google is your friend:


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s107-2513


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s107-2318

Thanks Imp. I see the first bill was pased unanimously in the Senate but never became law. The second one may have just been stalled, but it never became law either.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I agree, Shang. However, if the police department lacks funding, then where was the request for more -- so that it WOULD be able to provide this necessary service? Why, instead of placing the burden on the victim (or the victim's insurance), wasn't the requisite funding allocated? It seems the "crime" here is not that the alternative was considered as a short-term band-aid -- but that it appears to have been put forth as a solution FIRST and without the caveat that it was a temporary measure until adequate funding could be secured. The approach hints at several underlying philosophies... all of which are repugnant to me.

I don't know enough of the history of the measure to know how it was put forth or why other funding wasn't granted. I can only say that I do know of other counties in which there is a chronic shortage of funds for such things, and that their solutions are even worse. That the police department sincerely needs the funding is no guarantee that they will get it. We've been trying to get a desperately needed new jail built for ten years now, and every proposal gets voted down as too expensive. Meanwhile, every guard and inmate in the overcrowded, falling-to-pieces old facility is at continual risk.

Sometimes that's just the nature of humanity. Voters have a long list of things that they want, but a short list of things they will pay for. I've worked in governmental organizations in the past, and the constant pressure to do more and more with less and less is staggering. Elected representatives don't get elected by saying that taxes need to go up, and they don't appoint other functionaries who take that tack either. That mentality continues down the line until it hits someone who can't protest, and that person does what he or she can with what's there. The result is that no one with the power to ask for more funding demands it, because no one is being paid to tell voters what they don't want to hear.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

They are, however, charged for medical treatment for the results of the attacks. The nature of this crime blurs those lines.

Don't get me wrong; I agree with sr71plt. It's a crime against the community, and the whole community has a vested interest in funding the investigation and solving the crime. That's the way it should work. If, however, the funding wasn't there, I don't fault an attempt to get the testing done by hook or by crook. As distressing as it is to have to broach the topic of insurance payment with a rape victim, it has to be much more distressing to tell her that the money simply is not there and the kit won't be tested.

I grudgingly agree... if the funding truly wasn't there. But the interesting thing is that Wasilla WAS paying for them... until Palin replaced the guy in charge with her guy. Then he redid the budget - which she signed - and voila. Now rape kits weren't paid for by the city.

Things that make you go hmmmmm...

 

[cloudy]

I grudgingly agree... if the funding truly wasn't there. But the interesting thing is that Wasilla WAS paying for them... until Palin replaced the guy in charge with her guy. Then he redid the budget - which she signed - and voila. Now rape kits weren't paid for by the city.

Things that make you go hmmmmm...

There's also the fact that the funding was there for an umpty-million dollar sports facility, but yet....no funding for rape kits.

Someone's priorities are beyond fucked up.

 

[BlackShanglan]

There's also the fact that the funding was there for an umpty-million dollar sports facility, but yet....no funding for rape kits.

Someone's priorities are beyond fucked up.

I think we have to eat that one collectively. One way or another, it's the case everywhere I've ever lived, under any political party. Luxuries get paid for while desperate necessities don't. Quite a lot of it is down to voters willingly accepting politicians telling them that they can have everything they want and not pay for it. It never works in implementation, but it reliably works in the polls.

 

[cloudy]

I think we have to eat that one collectively. One way or another, it's the case everywhere I've ever lived, under any political party. Luxuries get paid for while desperate necessities don't. Quite a lot of it is down to voters willingly accepting politicians telling them that they can have everything they want and not pay for it. It never works in implementation, but it reliably works in the polls.

I dunno, Shang. The town/community I live in is way bigger than Wasilla, and we don't have a "sports facility" at all beyond the rec center, which is decades old, and consists of one small building, and then some basketball courts. However, rape victims here don't have to pay for their own rape kits.

And they say the south is backwards.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I dunno, Shang. The town/community I live in is way bigger than Wasilla, and we don't have a "sports facility" at all beyond the rec center, which is decades old, and consists of one small building, and then some basketball courts. However, rape victims here don't have to pay for their own rape kits.

And they say the south is backwards.

*laugh* for the last.

Kits, no - but testing? I think that is a crucial part of the puzzle here, because it's the pricey part. Does it get done, and how is it paid for?

You know, this tempts me to start a project. Maybe we could do some good in the world if all of us pressed ourselves to do a little research and discover, for each of our local law enforcement departments, how rape kit testing is funded, how often it's done, how big the backlog of untested rape kits is, and how the department handles the situation if they don't have the resources to test everything.

Just asking the questions might nudge some people in the right direction. Mailing the answers to some local news outlets could do more.

 

[john-the-author]

I've watched the Bidens for decades. (He is senator from my wife's state--and since my wife is a DuPont, it's pretty impossible not to run into him from time to time in Wilmington. And I taught his son at the university.) He's a pretty smart guy, able to grasp both the big picture and the details. And even though he has a liberal voting record (he's from a liberal voting state), he doesn't flame out on the edges of anything when there are compromises possible. He's stayed remarkably above any hint of corruption, and he works at his job 26-hours a day. He has compassion and heart--and, yes, suffers a good bit from speaking without fully processing. But that's mostly in his speaking, not in his actual work on significant issues. Pretty egotisical, of course. Don't know a senator who isn't.

He wouldn't have been my first--or third--pick for vice president for the Democratic campaign, but he's well in the mold of vice presidents who have fulfilled their duties well without creating headlines or heartburn. And if he were left holding the presidential bag, he'd do just as well as Ford did until another election came around--which is quite good enough. We'd probably actually be better off with a president for a while who didn't want to remold the world in his/her ideology.

Nicely said, SR. I think that Joe Biden is rather dull, but he's certainly not noxious and he's well-qualified. Moreover, he seems to be all about getting the job done, which is a solid qualification, I think. We could do far, far worse than an ideologue.

 

[BlackShanglan]

(Just for the record, you're all doing a good job of talking me 'round to Biden.)

 

[Selena_Kitt]

*laugh* for the last.

Kits, no - but testing? I think that is a crucial part of the puzzle here, because it's the pricey part. Does it get done, and how is it paid for?

You know, this tempts me to start a project. Maybe we could do some good in the world if all of us pressed ourselves to do a little research and discover, for each of our local law enforcement departments, how rape kit testing is funded, how often it's done, how big the backlog of untested rape kits is, and how the department handles the situation if they don't have the resources to test everything.

Just asking the questions might nudge some people in the right direction. Mailing the answers to some local news outlets could do more.

It's frustrating to me that state and local government rarely act without federal incentive in cases like these. Without a national law or federal cash offered to push states in the right direction, it's often impossible to get them to budge. Who, in local government, is going to support it? Officials only see that it costs more money, law enforcement sees it as more work for them, and the victims, as usual, have no power.