Joe Biden

[impressive]

I've seen some recent posts about the dude, and I just wanted to open up a discussion (since Sarah Palin's got a multi-page thread).

Frankly, I wasn't thrilled with his selection as Obama's running mate. That being said, I haven't yet found anything repulsive other than a couple stupid remarks he's made. His being on the ticket won't change my vote.

What do you think of him, Politericans?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

He plagarizes everything he says.

 

[DesertPirate]

First thought? What change?
Poster boy for the same old crap that hasn't worked in 30 years.
An excellent reason for term limits.

 

[Guest]

First thought? What change?
Poster boy for the same old crap that hasn't worked in 30 years.
An excellent reason for term limits.

Um, you do realize what you're saying, don't you?

Hasn't worked for so long, yet we're going to keep doing the same old thing without change, term limits are good . . .

Never mind.

 

[DesertPirate]

Um, you do realize what you're saying, don't you?

Hasn't worked for so long, yet we're going to keep doing the same old thing without change, term limits are good . . .

Never mind.

I know exactly what I said. MCain was not my first choice. He is the best one left and the only one who brought someone new in.
There is a reason why this country has only elected two sitting Senators in the past, Garfield and Kennedy. They are rarely the best choice available.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Cause and effect are hard to determine in foreign policy, so I'll just say this: Biden opposed the policies associated with the Russian defeat in Afghanistan, winning the Cold War and the fall of the evil empire, the ousting of a communist dictatorship from Nicaragua, and probably several others I've forgotten.

In domestic policy, he opposed the policies associated with ending the great inflation, double-digit unemployment and fuel shortages of the late 1970s. Actually, he has never stopped promoting the policies associated with those, and most of his party are now similarly alligned. Half the current electorate wasn't alive or were babes back then and seem to have become disgusted with the alternative policies, so apparently we're going to have to relearn some old lessons. Actually our domestic policy has been drifting in that direction for several years anyway.

 

[Emperor_Nero]

Cause and effect are hard to determine in foreign policy, so I'll just say this: Biden opposed the policies associated with the Russian defeat in Afghanistan, winning the Cold War and the fall of the evil empire, the ousting of a communist dictatorship from Nicaragua, and probably several others I've forgotten.

In domestic policy, he opposed the policies associated with ending the great inflation, double-digit unemployment and fuel shortages of the late 1970s. Actually, he has never stopped promoting the policies associated with those, and most of his party are now similarly alligned. Half the current electorate wasn't alive or were babes back then and seem to have become disgusted with the alternative policies, so apparently we're going to have to relearn some old lessons. Actually our domestic policy has been drifting in that direction for several years anyway.

Yeah, that was a great foreign policy move in Afghanistan that he opposed ... arming and funding rebels that eventually developed into organizations like the Taliban and Al Quaida. Seems to have worked out really well in the long run

 

[BlackShanglan]

I have to admit, I did wince on "Afghanistan" myself. Otherwise ... it's not so much (from my perspective) that Biden is a harbinger of doom, as that I really do question the judgement of anyone choosing him for a highly visible position - precisely as I question the wisdom of anyone choosing Sarah Palin while she's in the midst of an ethics investigation that seems quite properly to have gone against her. Honestly, I was stunned by both choices, and they both give me serious misgivings about the candidates who made them.

I realize that it never stood the slightest chance of happening, but I would have been much more tempted by an Obama-Clinton ticket. She's got all of the experience and backroom horse-trading years he hasn't, and there seems at least a faint hope that he might be able to tame her more egregious ethical disfunctions.

 

[epiphany65]

Cause and effect are hard to determine in foreign policy, so I'll just say this: Biden opposed the policies associated with the Russian defeat in Afghanistan, winning the Cold War and the fall of the evil empire, the ousting of a communist dictatorship from Nicaragua, and probably several others I've forgotten. .

The FSLN was most definitely not a dictatorship. They were elected in free and fair elections that were monitored by impartial outside observers from all over the world. When they were defeated in 1990 Ortega stepped down. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua#Sandinistas_and_the_Contras How many "Communist dictators" can you name who have done this? Now if you want to get into Reagan's support of The Contras and that whole dark period of American and Central American history, then that's a whole other issue. Using inflammatory rhetoric to try to prove your point may work with some, but the facts don't bear it out in this case.

 

[Belegon]

I know exactly what I said. MCain was not my first choice. He is the best one left and the only one who brought someone new in.
There is a reason why this country has only elected two sitting Senators in the past, Garfield and Kennedy. They are rarely the best choice available.

Um, you mean the only one who brought in someone new besides himself? I mean, isn't that one of your major issues with Obama?

 

[DesertPirate]

Um, you mean the only one who brought in someone new besides himself? I mean, isn't that one of your major issues with Obama?

There is nothing new about what he proposes, it's the same crap Biden has been for for 30+ years. Same old failed shit.

 

[sr71plt]

I've watched the Bidens for decades. (He is senator from my wife's state--and since my wife is a DuPont, it's pretty impossible not to run into him from time to time in Wilmington. And I taught his son at the university.) He's a pretty smart guy, able to grasp both the big picture and the details. And even though he has a liberal voting record (he's from a liberal voting state), he doesn't flame out on the edges of anything when there are compromises possible. He's stayed remarkably above any hint of corruption, and he works at his job 26-hours a day. He has compassion and heart--and, yes, suffers a good bit from speaking without fully processing. But that's mostly in his speaking, not in his actual work on significant issues. Pretty egotisical, of course. Don't know a senator who isn't.

He wouldn't have been my first--or third--pick for vice president for the Democratic campaign, but he's well in the mold of vice presidents who have fulfilled their duties well without creating headlines or heartburn. And if he were left holding the presidential bag, he'd do just as well as Ford did until another election came around--which is quite good enough. We'd probably actually be better off with a president for a while who didn't want to remold the world in his/her ideology.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Interesting thoughts, Sr. Thanks for sharing them.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I always liked Biden, thought he was a smart guy and a hard worker with a level head, salt of the earth. I never thought his plagiarism thing was that big a deal since it's not very likely he wrote his own speeches anyhow and certainly didn't have time to check them against every speech being made in the world. His speechwriter did the plagiarizing.

As I recall he was one of the first senators to win by running against the Vietnam war, which earns him very high marks in my book.

 

[sr71plt]

I always liked Biden, thought he was a smart guy and a hard worker with a level head, salt of the earth. I never thought his plagiarism thing was that big a deal since it's not very likely he wrote his own speeches anyhow and certainly didn't have time to check them against every speech being made in the world. His speechwriter did the plagiarizing.

As I recall he was one of the first senators to win by running against the Vietnam war, which earns him very high marks in my book.

Side note: Congrats on the launch of The Moth's Song today. It's one of the best reads I've had this year and would be a great one to read as we come up to Halloween. I recommend it highly.

 

[Belegon]

There is nothing new about what he proposes, it's the same crap Biden has been for for 30+ years. Same old failed shit.

???? Excuse me? Okay, what about Sarah Palin's POLITICS is new then????

Sarah herself is a new personality. But her personal platform is not new at all. It's closer to Bush than McCain actually, albeit from the other side. I think if we were to be measuring them from right to left Bush would actually be between Palin and McCain.

The only thing odd in any way, shape or form about the political viewpoints being espoused by her is that it is coming from a woman.

If you are going to claim that her gender alone makes her a radical new figure... well, what would that say about equality?

Also, I would say that there are several things about Barack that are quite refreshing, from his restraint on certain types of politicking to his directness about past mistakes to the path he took to this candidacy to his energetic embracing of the internet and appeal to younger voters.

ETA:
Damn. I didn't say a single thing on topic. So let me do so.

I think Biden was chosen very specifically to address what people considered to be the strongest weaknesses in Obama's campaign. I believe that he has more than fulfilled that agenda so far. I heard a lot about his malaprop penchant, but with one notable exception concerning FDR, that has not been a problem.

I love his background. I think his mom seemed extremely likable at the convention. I love his commitment to service, a thing I also love about Obama.

Overall, Biden may not have been my first choice but I can't say it was a bad choice at this point. Not at all.

 

[sr71plt]

???? Excuse me? Okay, what about Sarah Palin's POLITICS is new then????

Sarah herself is a new personality. But her personal platform is not new at all. It's closer to Bush than McCain actually, albeit from the other side. I think if we were to be measuring them from right to left Bush would actually be between Palin and McCain.

The only thing odd in any way, shape or form about the political viewpoints being espoused by her is that it is coming from a woman.

If you are going to claim that her gender alone makes her a radical new figure... well, what would that say about equality?

Also, I would say that there are several things about Barack that are quite refreshing, from his restraint on certain types of politicking to his directness about past mistakes to the path he took to this candidacy to his energetic embracing of the internet and appeal to younger voters.

Beyond that, I would challenge DesertPirate (if he didn't have me on ignore) to back up his claim that Joe Biden's 30 year record is one of failure.

I think DesertPirate is firing from the hip of ignorance and "just to be nasty" innuendo on that.

I think Biden has a solid history of solid, honorable work and would challenge anyone to show otherwise. (While again, not suggesting that I think he is presidential timber or the best vice presidential choice).

I think it's a real hoot when armchair pundits with fake names float around the Internet passing judgment on folks who have actually stepped up to the responsibility to try to move society ahead in a complex, hostile world.

 

[Huckleman2000]

During the time when Souter and Thomas were named to the SCOTUS, I had a job where I was by myself and listened to NPR broadcasting the Senate confirmation hearings live. Biden was a prominent questioner in both cases, and a very good one. He was smart, incisive, and educational. He caught a lot of flak in the press at the time, and I thought quite unfairly. He was one of the best in a pretty distinguished group on both sides - Ted Kennedy, Orrin Hatch, and Joe Biden are the ones that I immediately remember. Anyway, I wrote him a letter where I told him that I listened to the hearings, and what was being reported didn't match up with what I heard, and that I thought he did an excellent job in a very tough position.

A few months later, I got a reply that was very personal. I hadn't thought about that in a long time, but then I read this.

Only weeks later, wife and daughter would perish and I would write Sen. Biden a note of condolence. Who knows what I wrote because that letter is long gone, but not his response back to me, which arrived later that winter. I've kept it all these 36 years. His letter came in a heavy, cream-colored envelope with the return address, United States Senate Washington, D.C., engraved in dark blue in the left corner. He addressed it to "Mr. Petrow," probably the first time anyone had called me that:

"I offer a belated thank-you for your kind words of condolence. I deeply appreciate your sentiments. I owed so very much to Neilia. She had a talent for making not only her own life worthwhile, but also the lives of those around her. She was both a loving mother and a loving wife. In addition, she was my political confidant, in whose judgment I had implicit and utmost trust. Neilia looked forward to our coming to Washington. Now our life has been completely torn apart by an event I shall never completely understand. Neilia deserved better. Best wishes, Joe Biden"

Included in the letter were the Mass cards for both Neilia and Naomi. On the back of his wife's card was a quote from Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet: "Death lies on her like an untimely frost upon the sweetest flower of all the field." And on his infant daughter's: "Dear God, What greater thing can be said of Amy than Ezekiel's words: 'As is the mother, so is her daughter.'" -- Ezekiel 16:44

 

[BlackShanglan]

Last month at an event in Fort Myers, Florida, he referred to the "Biden administration" before correcting the phrase and adding as he laughed and crossed himself: "Believe me, that wasn't a Freudian slip. Oh Lordy day, I tell ya."

I find it almost impossible not to like a man who says, "Oh Lordy day, I tell ya."

 

[The_Trouvere]

In domestic policy, he [Joe Biden] opposed the policies associated with ending the great inflation, double-digit unemployment and fuel shortages of the late 1970s.

The economic problems you mention were caused by the OPEC oil boycotts that followed the Yom Kipper War in 1973, and the Iranian Revolution of 1979. These boycotts were not economically sustainable, because non OPEC countries benefitted. When the OPEC boycott following the Iranian Revolution came to an end in the early 1980's the world price of petroleum declined, and the economic problems caused by the price increase came to an end. Ronald Reagan benefitted from all this. He was not responsible.

Reagan's economic policy consisted of stimulating the economy with borrowed money. If the price of petroleum had remained high, indeed if it had continued to rise as it did in 1980, this would have lead to the inflationary recession predicted by Howard Ruff in 1979.

Republicans and libertarians prefer to ignore the economic effects of the OPEC oil boycotts because they do not want to admit that foreigners have considerable control over the U.S. economy, and they do not want to admit that the American dependence on automobile transportation is a national problem.

I would like to add that double digit unemployment only happened in 1974, when Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford were presidents, and again in 1982 when Ronald Reagan was president. It did not happen when Jimmy Carter was president.

 

[The_Trouvere]

I would have liked it better if Barack Obama had balanced the ticket by selecting a retired general as his vice presidential candidate, someone like Wesley Clark. He could be just as liberal as can be, in fact I would want him to be a liberal, but I would want him to be a straight arrow: that is to say a combat veteran of the War in Vietnam, someone who attends church with a fair degree of regularity, someone who is not a womanizer, and probably a Southern white.

I think the Democrat Party needs to win back most of the white working class. The politics of identity resonates with these people. I would have preferred it if Obama had selected someone a white filling station attendant in Georgia, who never finished high school, would feel comfortable with.

 

[DesertPirate]

???? Excuse me? Okay, what about Sarah Palin's POLITICS is new then????

Sarah herself is a new personality. But her personal platform is not new at all. It's closer to Bush than McCain actually, albeit from the other side. I think if we were to be measuring them from right to left Bush would actually be between Palin and McCain.

The only thing odd in any way, shape or form about the political viewpoints being espoused by her is that it is coming from a woman.

If you are going to claim that her gender alone makes her a radical new figure... well, what would that say about equality?

Also, I would say that there are several things about Barack that are quite refreshing, from his restraint on certain types of politicking to his directness about past mistakes to the path he took to this candidacy to his energetic embracing of the internet and appeal to younger voters.

ETA:
Damn. I didn't say a single thing on topic. So let me do so.

I think Biden was chosen very specifically to address what people considered to be the strongest weaknesses in Obama's campaign. I believe that he has more than fulfilled that agenda so far. I heard a lot about his malaprop penchant, but with one notable exception concerning FDR, that has not been a problem.

I love his background. I think his mom seemed extremely likable at the convention. I love his commitment to service, a thing I also love about Obama.

Overall, Biden may not have been my first choice but I can't say it was a bad choice at this point. Not at all.

Bringing in an elder member of the old boyus club is change?

At least McCain pisses off both sides. We need moderates every now and then.

 

[sr71plt]

Bringing in an elder member of the old boyus club is change?

I take it you haven't followed Washington politics much in the past couple of decades. Joe Biden has never been the member of any "old boy's club" in Congress. He's considered a maverick in the Senate almost on par with McCain.

If he'd been more of "one of the boys," he'd have gotten a presidential nomination nod decades ago.

Running on assumptions here?

 

[Elianna]

I have nothing useful to say on this thread except that the Saturday Night Live skit they did mocking Biden and Palin in the debates where Biden keeps saying

"I'd take a bullet for McCain... but he's looney. I mean I love the man, but he is wrong, dead wrong..."

just made my sides hurt.

Personally. I like Biden. He can speak intelligently. He knows how to say nuclear. Already a vast improvement.

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

I know exactly what I said. MCain was not my first choice. He is the best one left and the only one who brought someone new in.
There is a reason why this country has only elected two sitting Senators in the past, Garfield and Kennedy. They are rarely the best choice available.

Are you referring to Garfield the Cat or James Garfield? Neither of them was ever a senator. Or, are you referring to Warding Harding, who was a seated senator when he was elected president?