POTUS "Town Hall" debate live thread - post your thoughts as you watch

[Safe_Bet]

I really hating McCain tonight, but Obama is pissing me off on the "we need to financially help" EVERYBODY.

I DON"T want to pay more taxes to help Pakistan, Gerogia, Poland or anybody else. We have a big enough need here for all of that money and assistance.

 

[Huckleman2000]

That link doesn't seem to work for me. Thanks anyway though.

Thanks for stopping in to show your mesh top AV!
It's become the highlight of watching the debates!

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I really hating McCain tonight, but Obama is pissing me off on the "we need to financially help" EVERYBODY.

I DON"T want to pay more taxes to help Pakistan, Gerogia, Poland or anybody else. We have a big enough need here for all of that money and assistance.

There are ways to do it without overtaxing (literally and figuratively) the American people or the military. And just think about how much money we'll be saving when we're out of the places we don't need to be in the first place!

 

[Guest]

That link doesn't seem to work for me. Thanks anyway though.

Try this one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7658160.stm

 

[fieryjen]

Try this one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7658160.stm

Thank you!!

ETA: Caught the last five seconds.

 

[starrkers]

Obama looks much stronger, sounds stronger and sounds like he's more ready to take on the challenges of the current troubles.

McCain has a vaguely beaten quality to his speech.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Nice nod to Michelle! the woman who keeps him honest, lol.

McCain lost his shit and went gonzo.

The Republicans aren't Fascists anymore. They've gone Dada.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SELENA

Dont hold your breath or send out party invitations just yet, my ancestors lived forever. I'm good to go for at least 30 more years. I plan to use every nickle you have for my social security.

 

[Belegon]

If John McCain knows how to get Bin Laden, how about telling us NOW.

 

[Safe_Bet]

If John McCain knows how to get Bin Laden, how about telling us NOW.

He's going to call him up and rhetoric him to death!

 

[epiphany65]

Debates of this sort may help some of the undecided to make up their minds, but I think they rarely, if ever, change people's minds who have already decided to vote for one candidate over another. For the decided it's just preaching to the choir. We listen to our favourite candidates remarks and jabs and cheer them on, but disregard the points made by their opponent, regardless of how valid they may be. Objectivity and open-mindedness are rare commodities amongst the decided and I'll cop to this myself.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I was surprised at how old McCain seemed. Obama pranced around like a teen about to get his first piece of ass. But neither one of them has THE RIGHT STUFF.

On the one-hand we have a youngster who has no idea what its like to fuck, and the other guy cant remember what it was like.

 

[epiphany65]

I was surprised at how old McCain seemed. Obama pranced around like a teen about to get his first piece of ass. But neither one of them has THE RIGHT STUFF.

On the one-hand we have a youngster who has no idea what its like to fuck, and the other guy cant remember what it was like.

I found that McCain seemed like a tottering old man during the debate, but I wonder if some of that might be due to his injuries as a POW.

ETA: If any of you missed the debate, or want to see it again, it's streaming on CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream2

 

[Belegon]

The Moment That Defines This Election? "That One."

It's a catchy headline that a columnist salivates over. Yet I found myself so reluctant to use it that I decided not to follow my normal pattern of writing immediately after a debate due to the way it dominated my thoughts.

With an evening to think on it and a good night's sleep behind, I realize it dominated my thoughts for a reason.

The appalling and disrespectful moment when John McCain referred to Barack Obama by pointing a finger sideways and saying "that one" with utter disdain captures everything about the man that gives me pause when I imagine him as President.

Moments can define people. As a writer and a film buff I should know this. When Lawrence of Arabia stands on the roof of the train, when Sidney Poitier says, "They call me Mr. Tibbs!" or when Indiana Jones casually pulls his gun and shoots the swordsman in the marketplace, those characters are defined forever.

John McCain defined himself in that moment. He thinks he is better than everyone around him. He thinks that this presidency is his because he deserves it and no one else does. He showed not only disdain for Barack Obama, but for all of us. Our votes are his by right. He doesn't need to earn them.

See, John McCain thinks he is entitled to that post. He thinks that the fact that he has to go out and cater to all of us in order to be elected is ridiculous. Because why should he have to parade around in front of these people who are beneath him in order to get the job he so obviously deserves?

I struggle with this characterization. It is an awful thing to say about a man who suffered as a P.O.W. and who has spent the great majority of his life in service to his country.

But it fits.

If I was writing John McCain, as a character in a novel, and I needed the reader to "get this" about the character, I could not have chosen a better way to make the point. And it changes the rest of his actions in ways that make sense within the character. It explains his choice of Sarah Palin, since her obvious flaws become inconsequential to a man who thinks he knows so much more than those around him. The pat on the back of the audience member, the constant use of the condescending "my friends" and the repeating of talking points that have already been shown to be untrue all make sense from this point of view into John McCain.

It explains why he thinks he can fly into Washington with a non-suspended suspension of his campaign and think that he will emerge victorious. It explains why he feels it's no big deal to blow off David Letterman. It explains his role in the Keating Five. It explains his first marriage and how it ended. It explains the awful jokes.

And it fits with a man who was involved in three flying accidents in the Navy before he was shot down and yet never lost his wings because of who his father was. With a man who knew they wouldn't kick him out of the Naval Academy. With a man who pledged this spring to run a clean campaign on the issues and instead is running what the New York Times called this morning "one of the most appalling campaigns we can remember."

It explains why he can't look at Obama. It explains why he is okay running the horrible ads. It explains why he can make outrageous claims like Obama not agreeing to ten Town Halls "forced" him to go negative and why he can tell his lies with a wink and a smile.

It's a moment I am not going to be able to shake easily. Because, as a writer, I feel it reveals character. Perfectly. I couldn't have written a better scene and thus I am hard-pressed to explain away what I saw and heard.

The only question to be answered is who John McCain respects less. Barack Obama? Or all of us?

 

[DesertPirate]

The bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget says by 2013 Obama would outspend McCain by at least $27 billion and by as much as $119 billion. The projected deficit for 2013 is already $147 billion, so both men would leave the country in the red.

But Obama's proposals would push the deficit to $433 billion. Under McCain the deficit would fall somewhere between $314 billion and $406 billion.

He's not a Tax and Spend Democrat?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Maverick: 1. One that refuses to abide by the dictates of or resists adherence to a group; a dissenter. 2. Being independent in thought and action or exhibiting such independence


If only he could use his powers for GOOD...

 

[Belegon]

The bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget says by 2013 Obama would outspend McCain by at least $27 billion and by as much as $119 billion. The projected deficit for 2013 is already $147 billion, so both men would leave the country in the red.

But Obama's proposals would push the deficit to $433 billion. Under McCain the deficit would fall somewhere between $314 billion and $406 billion.

He's not a Tax and Spend Democrat?

Bookmarked.

Will check it out, since those numbers for McCain run counter to every other report I have seen.

 

[Sandy_Fox]

Just a shameful display. I honor McCain's service, but being a good prisoner doesn't make you a good president. I would have more respect for Obama if he called him on his shit though. Sorry, but that's the facts.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

The bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget says by 2013 Obama would outspend McCain by at least $27 billion and by as much as $119 billion. The projected deficit for 2013 is already $147 billion, so both men would leave the country in the red.

But Obama's proposals would push the deficit to $433 billion. Under McCain the deficit would fall somewhere between $314 billion and $406 billion.

He's not a Tax and Spend Democrat?

God forbid we actually spend some money at home instead of overseas on a war we shouldn't have ever started.

 

[Belegon]

The bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget says by 2013 Obama would outspend McCain by at least $27 billion and by as much as $119 billion. The projected deficit for 2013 is already $147 billion, so both men would leave the country in the red.

But Obama's proposals would push the deficit to $433 billion. Under McCain the deficit would fall somewhere between $314 billion and $406 billion.

He's not a Tax and Spend Democrat?

Your last sentence should read "Under McCain, the deficit would be pushed to somewhere between $314 and $406 Billion." The way you state it makes it sound like a reduction under McCain, which it is not.

Also, this document includes neither the bailout package (the document was created on Sept. 10th) nor the energy plans of either candidate. Lastly, it presupposes a troop reduction by John McCain which he never states will take place and grants him a $105 Billion reduction based on that.

I find the last to be a major error. Also, the landscape has changed dramatically due to the bailout.

I must however, give you credit for finally quoting what does appear to be an unbiased source. I found nothing on their page that seemed deliberately partisan.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

McCain's Campaign: What Are They Thinking?

I'm not naive enough to believe a politician's promises, but looking at a campaign as a means of getting elected, I have to say that I'm still quite shocked at the incompetence of McCain's campaign. Not so much at the level of vituperation (you expect that), but at the sheer lack of substance. Granted, Obama's messages aren't the most solid and specific I've ever seen either, but at least he's hammering on some themes of tax relief, energy research, health care, Iraq, Afghanistan, and education. McCain, on the other hand, seems to have no specific programs he's pushing and so he's left with nothing but personal attacks.

He brought up that mortgage buy-back idea, and for a while I thought that was going to be the bomb-shell of the debate. And then he just kicked it under the couch before anyone got a look at it. What was that all about? It was like they just thought of it as he was walking on stage and whispered it to him and he was afraid to go too far with it. Now I understand they've modified the idea, and that the idea's in the bail-out proposal anyhow, so it was just spur-of-the-moment anyhow. How half-assed is that?

Around the time of the conventions, I think McCain had made the decision to make the campaign about character and experience, which made sense at the time. He had Obama trumped in those departments. The financial crisis changed all that though, and what people want to hear now are programs and plans, and not just generalities, and McCain is really at a disadvantage in this regard. His tax plan is, unfortunately, a continuation of Bush's policies, and outside of that, he has nothing to offer except vague promises to "fix" Washington, which sound more and more like the ravings of a bewildered mechanic who doesn't really know what the problem is with your car. At the debate, when faced with a host of challenges his mantra of, "I know how to do that!" had a desperate ring to it and no details, and almost reached the emotional tone of a plea.

What would America look like under a McCain administration? We have no idea, except that we'd still be in Iraq. How would things be different than the way they are now? He doesn't say. He gives us no specifics with which we can start to build an alternative picture of the future.

The best you can say about McCain is that he's not Obama, and that seems to be what he's basing his entire campaign on.

 

[cloudy]

Someone's already got shirts available at cafepress:

http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/thatone.jpg

I'm tempted.

 

[impressive]

Someone's already got shirts available at cafepress:

http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/thatone.jpg

I'm tempted.

I did something similar in Coming Together's shop last night:

http://www.cafepress.com/comingtogether/6057278

 

[cloudy]

I did something similar in Coming Together's shop last night:

http://www.cafepress.com/comingtogether/6057278

If I decide to get one, I'll get it there instead.