Genes for Altruism Found?

dr_mabeuse

seduce the mind
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Posts
11,528
One of the hottest topics in human evolutionary biology is the question of human altruism -- why we look out for each other rather than just look out for ourselves. After all, evolution says it's just our own genes we should be concerned with saving.

The answer seems simple, to me at least. We look out for each other because we're social animals and have no chance for survival on our own, as isolated organisms. We live and die as a group. If our group goes down, so do our own genes. But classical evolutionary theory isn't happy with this idea for some reason.

Now this theory has gotten a powerful boost. Two studies have linked altruism with two genes --the AVPR1 and the D4 -- that produce the behavior-affecting hormones vasopressin and dopamine. Basically, they found that people who were more altruistic and caring had more "active" forms of these genes. That means these behaviors are built into us, not learned. Altruism is hardwired into our brains along with intelligence and the capacity for language and the other things that make us human.

The AVPR1 gene produces vasopressin, a "socializing" hormone that induces social bonding (it's one of the hormones mothers produce for their new babies). People who were more altruistic had a form of the gene that was more likely to express itself and produce vasopressin than the non-altruistic group.

The D4 gene is associated with higher production of the "reward" neurotransmitter dopamine, which we feel when we're excited or elated. The altruistic crowd similarly had a 'more sensitive' form of this gene as well. It's theorized that they're more likely to feel internal rewards from acts of social kindness.

Altruism was tested in the D4 case by a questionnaire. For the AVPR1 gene, a game was set up where the subjects were given a hypothetical $12 and asked to share it with another person. They could give them some, none or all of it, and their response was then matched with their genetic profile.

The article's here.

You have to wonder now about people with mutations to the AVPR1 or D4. Is this where our psychopaths come from?
 
DOC

Its a stretch. Animal moms express altruism until their pups are grown, then the genes switch 'off.' My own thinking correlates with what Nobel Laureate Herbert Simon concluded about altruism: Humans are stupid and docile, and their guilt is easily manipulated by sociopaths.

If anything, our so-called altruism genes are mutants, unable to switch-off when babies become adults.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Funny you should bring this up, Doc...

I'm currently working as a research assistant to an anthropologist, and that's exactly the subject I've been running searches on. I get to do my searches from the UCLA network, and I have access to about a billion times more information than a normal google search will render!

He makes the case that anthropology and biology are interconnected.

There's another "kindness hormone," oxytocin. It, together with vasopressin, are the subject of a lot of research these days.

One thing that my boss points out; humans are dependent on co-operation, from birth. Children have to cooperate with their parents, and they do so out of a multitude of influences, all of which reinforce the interdependency and affect need that makes us so social.
 
People stick together because someone might drop their soap, creating a quality time opportunity.
 
There's also some recent research on mirror neurons, which I find fascinating. Mirror neurons allow Person A to feel what Person B is feeling when A observes B or to imagine doing what B is doing. The research is still pretty new, so there are a lot of unanswered questions, but there's some fascinating speculation.

Does altruism occur partly because of high-functioning mirror neurons?
Does something like Asberger's occur because of low-functioning mirror neurons?
Do sociopaths lack mirror neurons entirely?

If anyone wanted to doubt that we're a social species, mirror neurons are a mighty big piece of evidence.
 
Do mirror neurons explain why we are so fascinated with each other's sexuality?

How about playing air guitar, and singing along, out of tune, to our walkmans?

I know that when I watch dancing-- any kind of dancing, be it breakdance or ballet-- I am that dancer, in my head... although I look like a construction worker if I try to dance!

This is certainly one important component of empathy, in my opinion. We mirror more than observed physical actions. hero worship, pity, topping...
 
There's also some recent research on mirror neurons, which I find fascinating. Mirror neurons allow Person A to feel what Person B is feeling when A observes B or to imagine doing what B is doing. The research is still pretty new, so there are a lot of unanswered questions, but there's some fascinating speculation.

Does altruism occur partly because of high-functioning mirror neurons?
Does something like Asberger's occur because of low-functioning mirror neurons?
Do sociopaths lack mirror neurons entirely?

If anyone wanted to doubt that we're a social species, mirror neurons are a mighty big piece of evidence.

I wait for the day that mirror neurons are a prescription drug. :eek:
 
Bullshit.

Mirror neurons cant discriminate surprise, illusions, delusions, error, or deceit from the real thang.
 
That's where experience kicks in.

For instance, I've felt empathy towards JBJ a few times. Experience however, made me aware that was a losing proposition. My mirror neurons don't fire off in response to him any more, suppressed by my frontal lobes' asessment and censoring capabilities.
 
That's where experience kicks in.

For instance, I've felt empathy towards JBJ a few times. Experience however, made me aware that was a losing proposition. My mirror neurons don't fire off in response to him any more, suppressed by my frontal lobes' asessment and censoring capabilities.

My empathy towards him is such that I added him to my ignore list long ago, along with many others of such ilk. But then, I'm Aspie . . .
 
That's where experience kicks in.

For instance, I've felt empathy towards JBJ a few times. Experience however, made me aware that was a losing proposition. My mirror neurons don't fire off in response to him any more, suppressed by my frontal lobes' asessment and censoring capabilities.

and dislike of monkey poo. ;)
 
Pshaw!

It looks to me like the usual chalky pedagogues re-discovered pattern recognition.

You guys are fools for every quack who opens a stall at the county fair.
 
That's where experience kicks in.

For instance, I've felt empathy towards JBJ a few times. Experience however, made me aware that was a losing proposition. My mirror neurons don't fire off in response to him any more, suppressed by my frontal lobes' asessment and censoring capabilities.

I think he does his stuff tongue-in-cheek. He's too smart to behave so stupidly, and he's too funny to be doing it accidentally. I think he's like Borat: his persona never cracks, no matter what you do, and while it's sometimes mean, it's amazing performance art. :)
 
I know that when I watch dancing-- any kind of dancing, be it breakdance or ballet-- I am that dancer, in my head... although I look like a construction worker if I try to dance!

I hear you. When I watch a concert pianist, I am sometimes desperate to play the piano. There's only one problem: I don't know how to play the piano. But my hands are begging to play, as if they were some other entity. Maybe the part of my brain that controls my hands has more than its share of mirror neurons. *smile*

This is certainly one important component of empathy, in my opinion. We mirror more than observed physical actions. hero worship, pity, topping...

Therapy.

What seems weird to me is that I wasn't very good at reading what other people were feeling until I hit 30, and then suddenly it seemed as if I had gobs of empathy and understanding that I hadn't had before. Could I have had a huge batch of mirror neurons not come online until age 30? I dunno. There's research that says our brains aren't mature until 21 or 22, and I've always been a late bloomer....
 
I hear you. When I watch a concert pianist, I am sometimes desperate to play the piano. There's only one problem: I don't know how to play the piano. But my hands are begging to play, as if they were some other entity. Maybe the part of my brain that controls my hands has more than its share of mirror neurons. *smile*



Therapy.

What seems weird to me is that I wasn't very good at reading what other people were feeling until I hit 30, and then suddenly it seemed as if I had gobs of empathy and understanding that I hadn't had before. Could I have had a huge batch of mirror neurons not come online until age 30? I dunno. There's research that says our brains aren't mature until 21 or 22, and I've always been a late bloomer....

There's a lot of research that indicates that male brains don't mature thirty. This is indicated by asking any guy about the things he did in his 20's and before and watch the grimace. When the female brain matures has always been a mystery to me. Everything else about women matures earlier than it does in males, in the main, but I've never seen anyone clearly state when y'all's brain does.

And I still can't read other people for shit!
 
CORYLEA

I've been telling them THAT forever.

I love nuthin better than to be a guinea pig for a therapy demonstrator. They always want difficult 'clients.' They go nutz when I spend the whole time staring at the floor shrugging my shoulders. I love to fuck with hypnotists, too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There's a lot of research that indicates that male brains don't mature thirty. This is indicated by asking any guy about the things he did in his 20's and before and watch the grimace. When the female brain matures has always been a mystery to me. Everything else about women matures earlier than it does in males, in the main, but I've never seen anyone clearly state when y'all's brain does.

Well, I've often been told that I'm not behaving as women are supposed to, so maybe I have a male brain (except that I'd make a bad one of those, too. :) )


And I still can't read other people for shit!

I've heard you say that, but I don't see you behaving inappropriately on the forum. You seem to understand when people are flirting and when people are fighting and all that stuff.
 
CORYLEA

I've been telling them THAT forever.

Really? Aw, darn -- and here I was hoping I'd figured out a secret. :)

I love nuthin better than to be a guinea pig for a therapy demonstrator. They always want difficult 'clients.' They go nutz when I spend the whole time staring at the floor shrugging my shoulders. I love to fuck with hypnotists, too.

You are a very bad boy! But then, you're trying to be. *smile*
 
Well, I've often been told that I'm not behaving as women are supposed to, so maybe I have a male brain (except that I'd make a bad one of those, too. :) )




I've heard you say that, but I don't see you behaving inappropriately on the forum. You seem to understand when people are flirting and when people are fighting and all that stuff.

Naturally, those are words. I can do words. It's things like facial expressions, body language and voice tone that throw me off. I compensate by trying to be pleasant and reasonable with everyone. It seems to work most of the time and if I avoid confrontations I stay out of trouble. Apologies are cheap!

And no, I can't always tell the difference flirting and a come on. Trust me on this.
 
CORYLEA

Its still a secret. They dont believe its all show. I've told them maybe a dozen times I write humorous material. I get the same responses from my newspaper readers....they get totally pissed off.
 
I think he does his stuff tongue-in-cheek. He's too smart to behave so stupidly, and he's too funny to be doing it accidentally. I think he's like Borat: his persona never cracks, no matter what you do, and while it's sometimes mean, it's amazing performance art. :)
Yeah, well Borat is n asshole who got lucky, IMO. JBJ might have refined his shtick, but he practiced on too many people here before you got here to be amused by him. Nope, no neurons wasted in that direction. :cool:
I hear you. When I watch a concert pianist, I am sometimes desperate to play the piano. There's only one problem: I don't know how to play the piano. But my hands are begging to play, as if they were some other entity. Maybe the part of my brain that controls my hands has more than its share of mirror neurons. *smile*

Therapy.

What seems weird to me is that I wasn't very good at reading what other people were feeling until I hit 30, and then suddenly it seemed as if I had gobs of empathy and understanding that I hadn't had before. Could I have had a huge batch of mirror neurons not come online until age 30? I dunno. There's research that says our brains aren't mature until 21 or 22, and I've always been a late bloomer....
Are you my twin sister? I'd have to change my mind about incest
 
And no, I can't always tell the difference flirting and a come on. Trust me on this.

Hell, neither can I. People often want plausible deniability when coming on to someone, so it's usually not all that definite of an approach -- telling the difference between that and flirting is hard. I understand that being turned down is hard on the ole self-esteem, but I find the "I'll pretend I'm joking and see how you respond" approach to be both annoying and cowardly.

I usually have a straightforward style, no matter what I'm talking about, and I try to cut the crap when it comes to sex, too. Since I don't generally do casual sex, when I meet an interesting new person, I ask to get to know them better. By the time I'm interested in having sex with them, I say, "I'd like to have sex with you. Are you interested? It's okay if you're not -- we can still be friends."

It's important to make sure that a person isn't eating or drinking when trying this approach; otherwise, one can make them choke on their coffee. :)
 
Hell, neither can I. People often want plausible deniability when coming on to someone, so it's usually not all that definite of an approach -- telling the difference between that and flirting is hard. I understand that being turned down is hard on the ole self-esteem, but I find the "I'll pretend I'm joking and see how you respond" approach to be both annoying and cowardly.

I usually have a straightforward style, no matter what I'm talking about, and I try to cut the crap when it comes to sex, too. Since I don't generally do casual sex, when I meet an interesting new person, I ask to get to know them better. By the time I'm interested in having sex with them, I say, "I'd like to have sex with you. Are you interested? It's okay if you're not -- we can still be friends."

It's important to make sure that a person isn't eating or drinking when trying this approach; otherwise, one can make them choke on their coffee. :)

If that approach spreads, I may have to remember to only deal in small bites or sips, just to be on the safe side. One never can tell, it might actually happen some day.

On the other hand, it certainly is clear and clarity is something I've always believed to be an underestimated virtue in human relations. Of course, it absolutely ruins Romance novels. :rolleyes:
 
Back
Top