Sarah Palin

[sr71plt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Books are removed from libraries all the time. Sometimes they are worn out and don't get replaced. Sometimes there is a lack of shelf space so less popular volumes are removed. Sometimes they are removed because a lot of people find them offensive, such as "Little Black Sambo." The fact that Sarah Palin has suggested that certain books be removed, if it is a true fact, is irrelevant. Anybody, including you or me, can go to the local library and request that certain books be removed.




I'm not Rox. What do you find untrue in the above paragraph?

Opps, you're right (although there often isn't a hair's difference between you).

Guess I'll reveal I'm drinking Shiraz.

Much of the paragraph is really, really stupid, Box. Relating worn-out books and lack of shelf space to this discussion. Really, really hairbrained. You should write campaign videos for either party, I think. Triple A obfuscation.

 

[Edward Teach]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxanne Appleby
Oh c'mon, lets get real. She's anti-abortion - big deal. So are lots of people, and all its about is whether abortion will be banned in some states while remaining legal in most. That's as far a the thing will ever go. On the goofy creationism thing, she said she would not prohibit a school from teaching "intelligent design" as well as real science. Again, big deal. The library books thing is made up.

Palin has based her political identity on being an opponent of the inbred political establishment, not that social conservative stuff. THAT is the really important issue, and it's why she's a hit with so much of the public, including many regular people who don't agree with her about those issues. They realize those issues are overblown by the hard core righties and lefties, and they rightfully just don't care very much about them. But they do care about the inbred political establishment thing.



There is no certainty that new justices would overturn RVW. They tend to be very leery of reversing earlier decisions. Even if they did, it wouldn't keep states from legalizing abortions.

Can you give a source where she said that men and dinosaurs occupied the Earth simultaneously?

Books are removed from libraries all the time. Sometimes they are worn out and don't get replaced. Sometimes there is a lack of shelf space so less popular volumes are removed. Sometimes they are removed because a lot of people find them offensive, such as "Little Black Sambo." The fact that Sarah Palin has suggested that certain books be removed, if it is a true fact, is irrelevant. Anybody, including you or me, can go to the local library and request that certain books be removed.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/15/bess/

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/us/politics/03wasilla.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&hp&oref=slogin

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Obama is a constitutional law scholar - top guy in his class. I wonder how that compares with Palin's education? Or McCains? (Not that I really care, but some fence-sitters might.)

Judging by his approach to the Constitution, he ought to sue the profs in his law school for incompetent teaching.

But, then, Palin and McCain have also done their Constitutional missteps. A certain unconstitutional campaign finance law comes to mind in the Senator's case.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Books are removed from libraries all the time. Sometimes they are worn out and don't get replaced. Sometimes there is a lack of shelf space so less popular volumes are removed. Sometimes they are removed because a lot of people find them offensive, such as "Little Black Sambo." The fact that Sarah Palin has suggested that certain books be removed, if it is a true fact, is irrelevant. Anybody, including you or me, can go to the local library and request that certain books be removed.

I'm not Rox. What do you find untrue in the above paragraph?

Opps, you're right (although there often isn't a hair's difference between you).

Guess I'll reveal I'm drinking Shiraz.

Much of the paragraph is really, really stupid, Box. Relating worn-out books and lack of shelf space to this discussion. Really, really hairbrained. You should write campaign videos for either party, I think. Triple A obfuscation.

I will take the comparison as a compliment. I don't know if Rox will.

When a library removes worn out books and does not replace them, there's a reason for that. It might be censorship or it might be just a matter of getting rid of books that are rarely checked out. We wouldn't know, though, because we would just be told "Oh, it was worn out" or something to that effect.

Same thing with lack of shelf space. A library can refuse to keep certain books, claiming lack of shelf space, when their real reason could be something else. How would we know?

 

[sr71plt]

I will take the comparison as a compliment. I don't know if Rox will.

When a library removes worn out books and does not replace them, there's a reason for that. It might be censorship or it might be just a matter of getting rid of books that are rarely checked out. We wouldn't know, though, because we would just be told "Oh, it was worn out" or something to that effect.

Same thing with lack of shelf space. A library can refuse to keep certain books, claiming lack of shelf space, when their real reason could be something else. How would we know?

The topic in connection with the library issue is censorship. You're just throwing flak up in the air.

 

[Edward Teach]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Books are removed from libraries all the time. Sometimes they are worn out and don't get replaced. Sometimes there is a lack of shelf space so less popular volumes are removed. Sometimes they are removed because a lot of people find them offensive, such as "Little Black Sambo." The fact that Sarah Palin has suggested that certain books be removed, if it is a true fact, is irrelevant. Anybody, including you or me, can go to the local library and request that certain books be removed.

I'm not Rox. What do you find untrue in the above paragraph?



I will take the comparison as a compliment. I don't know if Rox will.

When a library removes worn out books and does not replace them, there's a reason for that. It might be censorship or it might be just a matter of getting rid of books that are rarely checked out. We wouldn't know, though, because we would just be told "Oh, it was worn out" or something to that effect.

Same thing with lack of shelf space. A library can refuse to keep certain books, claiming lack of shelf space, when their real reason could be something else. How would we know?

She wasn't the librarian, Box, she was the mayor, for fuck's sake.

And she fired the librarian. But, maybe the librarian was refusing to remove "Little Black Sambo."

 

[Belegon]

The library books thing is made up.

No Roxy, it's not. That's the line that you're being fed and I am horribly sorry that you, who for all our differences I usually count on for intelligent opposition, is buying that line of oceanfront property in Arizona.

But you know what? The more attention Palin gets, the less McCain does. And he is counting on that.

 

[Belegon]

mccain graduated very very low in his class at annapolis. essentially in military science/engineering. some colleagues have said he was a bit of a bookworm in literature.

Obama is a constitutional law scholar - top guy in his class. I wonder how that compares with Palin's education? Or McCains? (Not that I really care, but some fence-sitters might.)

McCain graduated ranked 894th out of 899 students.

That's not just low. It's pathetic.

 

[Belegon]

How bought we just compromise and substitute Tina Fey in the VP slot? I think that would work better.

Ohhh, I like this idea.


Because, bad Robin Williams movies aside, I wouldn't mind a comedian ticket.

I would totally vote for a Bill Maher/Tina Fey ticket.

 

[Pure]

someday

rox on palin she's a hit with so much of the public, including many regular people who don't agree with her about those issues.

regular people. rare on this forum. one of the few clear examples is rox.


rox, do you think that *someday* you might upgrade me to "regular"? what do i have to do?

i've already stopped reading the huffington post and slate and msnbc. i'm starting slow, but i'm now watching an hour a day of fox news, just like you and GWB.

do you think *someday* i might join you in "regular" status?

 

[sweetness6280]

rox on palinshe's a hit with so much of the public, including many regular people who don't agree with her about those issues.

regular people. rare on this forum. one of the few clear examples is rox.


rox, do you think that *someday* you might upgrade me to "regular"? what do i have to do?

i've already stopped reading the huffington post and slate and msnbc. i'm starting slow, but i'm now watching an hour a day of fox news, just like you and GWB.

do you think *someday* i might join you in "regular" status?

Perish the thought!!!

Stay irregular, like the rest of us.

 

[Pure]

note to bel

bel McCain graduated ranked 894th out of 899 students.

That's not just low. It's pathetic

come on, now! it's because he was a maverick.

 

[sr71plt]

bel McCain graduated ranked 894th out of 899 students.

That's not just low. It's pathetic

come on, now! it's because he was a maverick.

Actually, that's true. That's also pretty much why he didn't reach the rank of admiral, like his father/grandfather did. And it's pretty much why he never got the party nomination when he tried for it before. Only in a scenario when the Republicans are running against the Republicans does his nomination as a party candidate make much sense.

 

[Belegon]

bel McCain graduated ranked 894th out of 899 students.

That's not just low. It's pathetic

come on, now! it's because he was a maverick.

I was a maverick in many ways. And I was massively busy and involved.

I played two sports, was on Greek Council, was President of my frat, founded a competitive Ski club, was active in the NAACP, acted in a musical, logged hours flying and managed to gain a coveted spot on the Delta's coveted "Best Butt" list.

And yet I graduated with a 3.48 and took massive hassle from my adviser for being so focused on athletics and alcohol that I didn't grad cum laude.

Why should I vote for someone that couldn't pull off what I did?

 

[sweetness6280]

I was a maverick in many ways. And I was massively busy and involved.

I played two sports, was on Greek Council, was President of my frat, founded a competitive Ski club, was active in the NAACP, acted in a musical, logged hours flying and managed to gain a coveted spot on the Delta's coveted "Best Butt" list.

And yet I graduated with a 3.48 and took massive hassle from my adviser for being so focused on athletics and alcohol that I didn't grad cum laude.

Why should I vote for someone that couldn't pull off what I did?

More importantly, you remain on the AH's "Best Butt" list.

 

[sr71plt]

I was a maverick in many ways. And I was massively busy and involved.

I played two sports, was on Greek Council, was President of my frat, founded a competitive Ski club, was active in the NAACP, acted in a musical, logged hours flying and managed to gain a coveted spot on the Delta's coveted "Best Butt" list.

And yet I graduated with a 3.48 and took massive hassle from my adviser for being so focused on athletics and alcohol that I didn't grad cum laude.

Why should I vote for someone that couldn't pull off what I did?

If you didn't go to a service school, this is really an apples/oranges comparison.

 

[Belegon]

More importantly, you remain on the AH's "Best Butt" list.

And I would so love to show you why...

Oh, sorry. Didn't mean to insert sex into a political discussion on a PORN bulletin board.

But as long as we are talking about it...

Todd Palin needs lessons. Seriously. How is Sarah not converted yet?

Oh, wait. Okay, granted. Maybe he fucking rocks in the sack and THAT is why Sarah thinks the old traditions are the way to go.

 

[Belegon]

If you didn't go to a service school, this is really an apples/oranges comparison.

Granted, I did not go to a military academy and it is well known that much of McCain's issues at Annapolis resolved around his temper and rebellion rather tha his intelligence.

But you know what? I can easily imagine a situation where I would consider that a positive about him.

Once, about four years ago, I actually liked John McCain. It saddens me to see how much of his individuality and integrity has fallen to the lure of the presidency. It really does.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

rox on palin she's a hit with so much of the public, including many regular people who don't agree with her about those issues.

regular people. rare on this forum. one of the few clear examples is rox.


rox, do you think that *someday* you might upgrade me to "regular"? what do i have to do?

i've already stopped reading the huffington post and slate and msnbc. i'm starting slow, but i'm now watching an hour a day of fox news, just like you and GWB.

do you think *someday* i might join you in "regular" status?

Ah Pure, you're as regular as they come: a virtually a production-line copy of the standard-issue post-modernist, relativist, subjectivist academic, absolutely predictable in every dogmatic west-hating thought and capitalism-hating concept.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Oh, come on, Rox. She’s scary.

She’s gonna be Vice President if McCain is elected.

A couple more Con Supremes and RvW is gone. The Cons know that, you know that.

She has said that she believes that men and dinosaurs were present on earth at the same time. And her father was a science teacher—she says they can’t agree on everything. That’s how much influence the fundie churches have had on her. That’s scary.

The LIST of banned books circulated on the internet was false, but there are many credible accounts of her asking about removing books from the library. That’s scary.

You can’t just dismiss these things by declaring them unimportant or false.

ET, this is a startling concept I know because the opposite has been conventional wisdom for so long, but I just don't find the repeal of Roe v. Wade to be at all "scary." I remember life before Roe, where abortion was legal in some states and illegal in others. Planned Parenthood operated a virtual "travel agency" for young women who lived in the wrong state and wanted to get an abortion. It was hardly the end of the world.

I know, someone will whomp up some hypothetical "tragedy" of a girl in North Dakota or some benighted place who is stuck having a baby she doesn't want, and I won't deny it will happen. But there's another tragedy that's been going on for 36 years, which is the poisoning and polarization of our politics as a consequence of Roe. Here's what I mean:

In my state, which is typical, a candidate can't win a GOP primary election for the legislature without Right to Life's blessing. That's because not many people vote in primaries, and so a small, highly motivated single-issue group holds the balance of power. This is why the religious right has outsized power in politics in our era.

Here's how that plays out: There are affluent suburban areas here filled with socially liberal, economically conservative pro-choice women (and men) who vote GOP because they feel that Dems are socialists who will wreck the economy.Their GOP candidates are all pro-life (have to be or that dedicated RTL minority will prevent their election) and tend to be more socially conservative as a side effect.

Those pro-choice suburbanites don't get excited about it because - due to Roe - none of those candidates are shooting with real bullets on abortion! They couldn't ban abortion in the state if they wanted to, conclude these voters, so we might as well elect them and save the economy from the union-dominated Dems. Result: A legislature that's more socially conservative than it would be in the absence of Roe. Cause: Roe. One consequence: Demagogic righties in the legislator put up an anti-gay marriage Constitutional amendment during that fad a few years ago, nervous voters passed it, and we'll be stuck with that boat anchor for 40 years now. Cause? Roe (in part).

That's what I mean by the poisoning of our politics. Some cures are worse than the disease, and Roe is one of them. Essentially, any time unelected judges run roughshod over democratic preferences there's a price to be paid. Sometimes the price is not worth it, and I contend that this is one of them.

I go into detail on this one issue just to show that our conventional wisdoms about what is or should be important in electoral politics are often not very wise.

In my post you quoted I said that the most important issue in this or any election these days is the fact that an inbred, self-serving political class and establishment has taken over the government and escaped the control of the people. Palin is perceived as being on the people's side of that issue, which is why she has an 80 percent approval rating as governor, even though many among that 80 percent don't agree with her on abortion, silly "intelligent design," etc. They can't explain it in these terms, but they sense what I've just described.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Can you give a source where she said that men and dinosaurs occupied the Earth simultaneously?

Did you watch the Charlie Gibson interview? I heard it from the woman's own mouth! Go here, click "watch the whole video" and hear it for yourself.

And Rox, you're wrong to dismiss Palin's ideology. Well... not, I guess, if you have the same one, I suppose. But I have lived with people like Palin, whose beliefs rule their lives - literally rule their lives. You might be able to take the woman outta the church, but you can't take this kinda church outta the woman.

I've said it before:

If Sarah Palin belonged to another party, and still had the same views on abortion, birth control, sex education, international policy, distribution of health care and education, gun control, global warming, alternative energy development, separation of church/state and freedom of speech - I would still NOT vote for her. Period.

This is nothing to say of the outright lies she's being caught in: Troopergate, earmarks, book banning, the bridge to nowhere... the list goes on.

This is NOT someone I want one heartbeat away from the presidency, thankyouverymuch.

It isn't "just" a few things, Roxanne. I don't agree with her on a myriad of issues, and the fact that she's a fundamentalist is, as someone else said, scary as hell.

You want to minimize it because you don't want the rest of the world to see the danger - but I'm afraid the fundamentalists' reputation precedes them. People already know exactly how they react and what they do.

We might as well elect Jerry Falwell... it would be the same damned thing.

 

[colddiesel]

ET, this is a startling concept I know because the opposite has been conventional wisdom for so long, but I just don't find the repeal of Roe v. Wade to be at all "scary." I remember life before Roe, where abortion was legal in some states and illegal in others. Planned Parenthood operated a virtual "travel agency" for young women who lived in the wrong state and wanted to get an abortion. It was hardly the end of the world.

I know, someone will whomp up some hypothetical "tragedy" of a girl in North Dakota or some benighted place who is stuck having a baby she doesn't want, and I won't deny it will happen. But there's another tragedy that's been going on for 36 years, which is the poisoning and polarization of our politics as a consequence of Roe. Here's what I mean:

In my state, which is typical, a candidate can't win a GOP primary election for the legislature without Right to Life's blessing. That's because not many people vote in primaries, and so a small, highly motivated single-issue group holds the balance of power. This is why the religious right has outsized power in politics in our era.

Here's how that plays out: There are affluent suburban areas here filled with socially liberal, economically conservative pro-choice women (and men) who vote GOP because they feel that Dems are socialists who will wreck the economy.Their GOP candidates are all pro-life (have to be or that dedicated RTL minority will prevent their election) and tend to be more socially conservative as a side effect.

Those pro-choice suburbanites don't get excited about it because - due to Roe - none of those candidates are shooting with real bullets on abortion! They couldn't ban abortion in the state if they wanted to, conclude these voters, so we might as well elect them and save the economy from the union-dominated Dems. Result: A legislature that's more socially conservative than it would be in the absence of Roe. Cause: Roe. One consequence: Demagogic righties in the legislator put up an anti-gay marriage Constitutional amendment during that fad a few years ago, nervous voters passed it, and we'll be stuck with that boat anchor for 40 years now. Cause? Roe (in part).

That's what I mean by the poisoning of our politics. Some cures are worse than the disease, and Roe is one of them. Essentially, any time unelected judges run roughshod over democratic preferences there's a price to be paid. Sometimes the price is not worth it, and I contend that this is one of them.

I go into detail on this one issue just to show that our conventional wisdoms about what is or should be important in electoral politics are often not very wise.

In my post you quoted I said that the most important issue in this or any election these days is the fact that an inbred, self-serving political class and establishment has taken over the government and escaped the control of the people. Palin is perceived as being on the people's side of that issue, which is why she has an 80 percent approval rating as governor, even though many among that 80 percent don't agree with her on abortion, silly "intelligent design," etc. They can't explain it in these terms, but they sense what I've just described.

This argument that Roe v Wade was the focus which enabled the rise of the religious right is interesting and possibly true in part however the assumption that if Roe v Wade was reversed the religious right's domination of the GOP would wither away is surely flawed.

All that would happen is that the focus would be changed from the Supreme court to the states. The campaign would go on with a newly confident group of pro lifers. You can't turn the clock back Rox no matter how much you might like to.

 

[DesertPirate]

You couldn't get a job at McDonalds and become district manager after 143 days of experience.

You couldn't become chief of surgery after 143 days of experience of being a surgeon.

You couldn't get a job as a teacher and be the superintendent after 143 days of experience.


You couldn't join the military and become a colonel after a 143 days of experience.

You couldn't get a job as a reporter and become the nightly news anchor after 143 days of experience.

You couldn't get a job as Director of Nursing after 143 days experience as an RN!

BUT....

'From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logge d 143 days of experience in the Senate. That's how many days the Senate was actually in session and working. After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World ... 143 days.


We all have to start somewhere. The senate is a good start, but after 143 days, that's all it is - a start.


AND, strangely, a large sector of the American public is okay with this and campaigning for him. We wouldn't accept this in our own line of work, yet some are okay with this for the Presidency of the United States of America ? Come on folks, we are not voting for the next American Idol!

 

[Pure]

Hey, we all have to pay.

[deleted} .... see economy thread

 

[Belegon]

You couldn't get a job at McDonalds and become district manager after 143 days of experience.

You couldn't become chief of surgery after 143 days of experience of being a surgeon.

You couldn't get a job as a teacher and be the superintendent after 143 days of experience.


You couldn't join the military and become a colonel after a 143 days of experience.

You couldn't get a job as a reporter and become the nightly news anchor after 143 days of experience.

You couldn't get a job as Director of Nursing after 143 days experience as an RN!

BUT....

'From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logge d 143 days of experience in the Senate. That's how many days the Senate was actually in session and working. After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World ... 143 days.


We all have to start somewhere. The senate is a good start, but after 143 days, that's all it is - a start.


AND, strangely, a large sector of the American public is okay with this and campaigning for him. We wouldn't accept this in our own line of work, yet some are okay with this for the Presidency of the United States of America ? Come on folks, we are not voting for the next American Idol!

This is only relevant if the reason I was supporting Barack Obama was because of his experience in the Senate.

If experience was my overriding measurement of competency, I would be most in favor of Joe Biden.