Incest Reconsidered

[dr_mabeuse]

A while ago we had a long discussion about incest, about why it's such a popular subject for stories when few people will admit to actually having incestuous feelings for members of their own families. It seems like something of a paradox.

The analogy was made to murder stories, claiming that we all like to read a good mystery, though few if any of us actually fantasize about murdering anyone. But I think that's a false analogy, because the nature of the incest story is to focus on the sex itself, not just to mention it in passing. A truer comparison would be to a slasher story in which the murder is described in loving detail, just as the sex is described in an incest story. I don't think many of us would be interested in reading something like that.

So it remains: why is incest so popular?

I just started my first ever incest story. It's always been a turn-off for me, but I had an idea for a plot that was too good to pass up, so I had to write it. It's mother-son, and in writing it, I discovered another side to incest I hadn't expected: the age-play factor; the mentor/mentee angle. I wondered if this is a big part of the appeal.

In mother-son incest you get a younger man with an older, experienced, and very accepting woman. Despite the obvious pervy implications, it's very loving sex, very non-threatening. It's actually a very gentle form of femdom, complete with the humiliation aspect (having one's sexuality discovered by a parent), and I wondered whether this might really be its attraction.

Something similar would work for father-daughter incest, and the humiliation factor would probably be even stronger, given the 'little princess' status most fathers hold their daughters in.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

A while ago we had a long discussion about incest, about why it's such a popular subject for stories when few people will admit to actually having incestuous feelings for members of their own families. It seems like something of a paradox.

The analogy was made to murder stories, claiming that we all like to read a good mystery, though few if any of us actually fantasize about murdering anyone. But I think that's a false analogy, because the nature of the incest story is to focus on the sex itself, not just to mention it in passing. A truer comparison would be to a slasher story in which the murder is described in loving detail, just as the sex is described in an incest story. I don't think many of us would be interested in reading something like that.

So it remains: why is incest so popular?

I just started my first ever incest story. It's always been a turn-off for me, but I had an idea for a plot that was too good to pass up, so I had to write it. It's mother-son, and in writing it, I discovered another side to incest I hadn't expected: the age-play factor; the mentor/mentee angle. I wondered if this is a big part of the appeal.

In mother-son incest you get a younger man with an older, experienced, and very accepting woman. Despite the obvious pervy implications, it's very loving sex, very non-threatening. It's actually a very gentle form of femdom, complete with the humiliation aspect (having one's sexuality discovered by a parent), and I wondered whether this might really be its attraction.

Something similar would work for father-daughter incest, and the humiliation factor would probably be even stronger, given the 'little princess' status most fathers hold their daughters in.

Exactly. Most people who enjoy incest stories/fantasies (myself included) have unresolved parental psychological issues somewhere in their psyche. Or, even if resolved as much as they can be, there's an imprint there, something left in the psyche that the incest fantasy fits right into.

And most folks who have incest fantasies don't actually fantasize about real family members, either. A fantasy daddy and daughter or mother and son (or sibling) is as far as it goes - they don't usually fantasize about themselves and their ACTUAL parent.

And it's interesting how the further the relationship deteriorates in relational importance, the less popular it is. Mother/son and father/daughter are the most popular, followed by siblings. If you get into cousins, step, etc, people like it less.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm not a huge fan of psychological theories about human appetites. I think every box of CRACKER JACK comes with a different prize. Take CHRISTINE for example.

I really enjoy reading about a psychotic car, but I cant quite peg where, exactly, things went wrong between me and any of the vehicles I've ever associated with.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I'm not a huge fan of psychological theories about human appetites. I think every box of CRACKER JACK comes with a different prize. Take CHRISTINE for example.

I really enjoy reading about a psychotic car, but I cant quite peg where, exactly, things went wrong between me and any of the vehicles I've ever associated with.

Sexual appetites are a helluva lot more psychologically telling than personal tastes in reading... although those say something, too. Horror? Romance? Mystery? There can be meaning in everything... it can be misconstrued, or misused... but everything's information. *shrug*

 

[Edward Teach]

I find the idea of two people being so overcome with lust that they have sex in spite of the danger to be very erotic. And, since the incest taboo is greater the closer the kinship, I find mother-son/father-daughter more erotic than say aunt-nephew.

If a pair of shipwrecked strangers was clinging to a piece of wood in shark infested waters and became so aroused bumping against each other that they could not resist having sex, I would find that arousing too.

There are probably almost as many reasons for the incest appeal as there are people it appeals to and the reasons probably run the gamut from being very simple to extremely complex.

You know, all that sex stuff is pretty complicated.

 

[Lisa Denton]

I find the idea of two people being so overcome with lust that they have sex in spite of the danger to be very erotic. And, since the incest taboo is greater the closer the kinship, I find mother-son/father-daughter more erotic than say aunt-nephew.

If a pair of shipwrecked strangers was clinging to a piece of wood in shark infested waters and became so aroused bumping against each other that they could not resist having sex, I would find that arousing too.

There are probably almost as many reasons for the incest appeal as there are people it appeals to and the reasons probably run the gamut from being very simple to extremely complex.

You know, all that sex stuff is pretty complicated.

?

What if the shark wanted to join in?

?

 

[Varian P]

Incest isn't in my personal fantasy repertoire, but I've written two incest stories now.

One non-consent story where a sadistic older guy uses "punishing" two teenage thieves he catches in his house as an excuse for raping the sister, and forcing her to give her brother head.

Dr. M., you raised the issue of humiliation, and humiliation certainly plays a part there: the girl chooses to let herself be raped, and the older brother allows it to happen, because the alternative is him going back to prison. So he basically sacrifices her--the kid sister he's somewhat taken care of all his life--to save himself.

The other element there is simply an exacerbation of the sadism of the man who catches them: the cruelty of raping the girl is ratcheted up by the fact that her brother witnesses it; the forced oral sex between the two young thieves is also more extreme, by far, because of their relationship to one another.

My second incest story has about the hokiest premise in the world: a father, a son and a daughter are stranded on a tropical island, and after years of isolation, and given their dwindling hope of rescue, succumb to their impulses.

There's humiliation in this one, too, not for the daughter/sister, but for her father and her brother, who feel tremendous guilt and shame at the prospect of fucking their beloved little Cat--the brother, more because he's rigid in his morals; the father, more because he feels responsible for their misfortune, that he's destroyed the lives of his two children.

For Cat, she is exultant in the whole situation. She is rescuing the two men, her elders, her protectors, her mentors, and taking control over her own destiny.

For me, the point of this second story was much like themes in other stories I've written: the idea of passionate, sexual love coming to fruition in spite of terrible odds against it. Cat's love--eventually an erotic love--for her brother and her father overcomes societal mores and deeply-rooted personal fears and shame that would have left them all lonely and broken.

 

[Lisa Denton]

A while ago we had a long discussion about incest, about why it's such a popular subject for stories when few people will admit to actually having incestuous feelings for members of their own families. It seems like something of a paradox.

The analogy was made to murder stories, claiming that we all like to read a good mystery, though few if any of us actually fantasize about murdering anyone. But I think that's a false analogy, because the nature of the incest story is to focus on the sex itself, not just to mention it in passing. A truer comparison would be to a slasher story in which the murder is described in loving detail, just as the sex is described in an incest story. I don't think many of us would be interested in reading something like that.

So it remains: why is incest so popular?

I just started my first ever incest story. It's always been a turn-off for me, but I had an idea for a plot that was too good to pass up, so I had to write it. It's mother-son, and in writing it, I discovered another side to incest I hadn't expected: the age-play factor; the mentor/mentee angle. I wondered if this is a big part of the appeal.

In mother-son incest you get a younger man with an older, experienced, and very accepting woman. Despite the obvious pervy implications, it's very loving sex, very non-threatening. It's actually a very gentle form of femdom, complete with the humiliation aspect (having one's sexuality discovered by a parent), and I wondered whether this might really be its attraction.

Something similar would work for father-daughter incest, and the humiliation factor would probably be even stronger, given the 'little princess' status most fathers hold their daughters in.

Great thread title unless your lil sister see's it .

Anyways, I never really got the incest appeal between parent and child because the "IMMORAL!!!" child molesting stuff would seem to be there even if the child was over 18.

Brother/sister? Lust and sex is good but never seems to last and any friendship between the pair seems to go south when the sex fades, what the heck happens to a good brother/sister relationship after sex?

Cousins? That works but the in-bred hillbilly's in oklahoma and arkansas give it a bad name.

I know peoples like it, probably just because of the taboo aspect, but I just can never get "into" the stories or fantasies without needing to take a shower, but thats just me.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Varian's story of the desert island is a really good story. Otherwise, though, incestuous relationships leave me colder than last week's leftovers. I can't imagine any sexual feelings for my mother. Hell, we didn't even get along all that well until I was married and had kids. As for my lil sisters? Hah!

So I will reserve judgement on all those (odd) peeps who gather around the incest/taboo category and stick with "more" normal pervy fantasies.

 

[amicus]

Interesting viewpoints here.

Somewhere along the way in the process of reading and learning, I gathered that as far back as the Greeks, and even before, that 'incest' has been a matter of discussion and literature.

Like most, I have read a smattering of psychology and psychiatry, from the Freud, Jung and Adler period forward, and they too, offer interesting opinions of incestual relationships.

It is implied that every son wishes to marry his mother and every daughter, her father.

Studies show that when people do marry, they often marry people resembling a parent, either in physical form or demeanor. How much truth resides in those studies, I haven't a clue.

A very popular author among teenagers wrote, "Flowers in the Attic", at the moment I cannot recall her name, but the story dealth with brother/sister incest and was made into a film.

Many brother/sisters, growing up together, go through a 'you show me yours, I'll show you mine...' stage in life, so I read and am told.

Quite a number, I read, go beyond the, 'show me' stage and participate in various levels of experimentations.

I have two stories, one, 'near' incest, "Mickie & Mike", between a step brother and sister, no blood relationship, but they lived together most of their lives and of course, the relationship was forbidden and they underwent a guilt crisis.

The second, "I'm a Girl", is an actual brother and sister, in a traumatic circumstance, somewhat like 'Flowers in the Attic', who turned to each other for support.

I personally think that all aspects of incest are fodder for the writer and should be explored, especially if for a cathartic reason, to explore one's own thoughts and bring them forth to the light of reason and meditation.

I also suggest that incest happens much more frequently than most suspect, but is hidden deep in repressed guilt and may in fact be serious determining factors in a persons life and as such, need to be explored as openly as possible.

But then...thas just me....not that it matters....(from neverending story, that huge turtle in the mud with a cold)



amicus...

 

[jomar]

?

What if the shark wanted to join in?

?

Not on Lit!

 

[sr71plt]

I have one incest stories posted here, and it's done quite well in the ratings. But even with this one, I couldn't bring myself to write full-blown incest. The protagonist doesn't know it's incest until the end (even though I permit a hint earlier that he is inclined in that direction). I just can't find the situation arousing--so I couldn't write it.

 

[togitc]

Truthfully the only reason I wrote the incest/taboo stories I have up are due to that fact that it is the most read section. Hit Top Lists, most of the stories on the first page by vote are Incest/Taboo.

It worked, those stories have the highest ranking of my selections. Basically, take an stroke story, slap on a family part, and there you go.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I have one incest stories posted here, and it's done quite well in the ratings. But even with this one, I couldn't bring myself to write full-blown incest. The protagonist doesn't know it's incest until the end (even though I permit a hint earlier that he is inclined in that direction). I just can't find the situation arousing--so I couldn't write it.

I have the same problem with certain categories, although I've tried to push myself to write them, esp when I was doing Survivor. I ended up taking an immunity. Can't do it. If it doesn't turn me on, it won't turn the reader on. Everyone has their thing.

And it's true that on Lit, incest will be your most-read market. But out there in the epub world, it's just a small niche - the most popular in the epub world are m/m, menage, or paranormal.

 

[The_Trouvere]

I also suggest that incest happens much more frequently than most suspect, but is hidden deep in repressed guilt and may in fact be serious determining factors in a persons life and as such, need to be explored as openly as possible.

On the internet I found a study in which 15% of college students questioned said that they had engaged in sexual teasing and experimentation with siblings, but that no more than 1% had engaged in sexual intercourse. That feels plausible to me.

I never did any sexual teasing and experimentation with my sisters, but the idea of two siblings doing that is arousing to me, as long as it is fairly innocent. Perhaps a sister enjoys teasing her brother by walking naked to and from the bath room to take a shower, or a brother and sister go skinny dipping together, but do not touch each other.

Because girls are more likely to be harmed sexually than boys, I would not enjoy a story about a father having intercourse with his daughter, but with an element of discomfort I can appreciate a story about a mother having intercourse with her son, as long as it is a loving and mutually enjoyable experience. Perhaps a boy is devastated by being rejected by a girl, and his mother comforts him, and things get carried away.

A story in which close relatives fornicate with the abandon of adults who meet at a bar does not only violate my moral sense, it violates my concept of plausible sexual behavior. Both relatives must be aware that a standard is being violated. They must feel guilt.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Truthfully the only reason I wrote the incest/taboo stories I have up are due to that fact that it is the most read section. Hit Top Lists, most of the stories on the first page by vote are Incest/Taboo.

It worked, those stories have the highest ranking of my selections. Basically, take an stroke story, slap on a family part, and there you go.

Them and Anal stories are the most read. I think this is becaquse of the taboo nature of both. A lot of people think of anal sex as disgusting, which inspires them to read a lot of it.

However, the highest ranked stories by voting tend to be Romances and Novels/Novellas, especially those broken into chapters. .

 

[Munachi]

The and Anal stories are the most read. I think this is becaquse of the taboo nature of both. A lot of people think of anal sex as disgusting, which inspires them to read a lot of it.

However, the highest ranked stories by voting tend to be Romances and Novels/Novellas, especially those broken into chapters. .

yeah i also think it's the taboo nature of it that attracts people. sex is pretty openly talked about these days, you can see it on tv, you can have or talk about oral sex, bdsm, whatever, and it will generally be seen as normal... as nice as that is, it makes sex lose some of its mystery, maybe. incest is more "forbidden", so maybe that makes the fantasy more fun...

 

[NoJo]

Some of the best incest stories I've read here were written by a woman who as a child was raped by her father. She really conveyed the power-game of father-daughter incest.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Forbidden fruit will always be sweeter, and it's become hard to find in our liberated age. I don't think incest readers fantacize at all about the reality, they're just excited by stories about someone else doing something that is so beyond the pale.

As for the realit of parent-child incest, here's something from another litser that has the ring of psychological validity for me - from some old exchanges:

Me: "Mike260 has acknowledged that there may be rare exceptions to his observation that parent-child incest is always psychologically damaging, even between consenting adults. I suspect those exceptions are rare indeed, and that 99 percent of those who think they are one of them are deluding themselves."

Mike260: The issue isn't whether or not they think they're harmed. Whatever they think, they're harmed.

Children of all ages need their parents to guide them and set stable examples for them. In order to offer this, the parents need to keep some distance between their own needs and the needs of their children.

The moment you go to bed with someone, that distance vanishes. The moment you arch your back, spread your legs, and say "I need you to fuck me," you profoundly relinquish your standing as a safe harbor in a potential storm. You're no longer a parent. You are a moaning woman begging your child to make you cum.

And I'll also conjecture that, if it is your daughter (or son) you're asking to hold you, caress you and fuck you in the darkened night, your sexual yearning is coming from a very sad and lonely place. No child should be asked to quench that yearning. That desperate neediness.

And even more than that, no child should ever be asked to join a parent in that lonely, tortuous place that mixes deep sadness and sexual ecstacy.

Etoile, I know you're going to say I'm being presumptuous here. But I don't think so. I think this is, in fact, a charitable picture that likely leaves out the emotional coerciveness that pervades many of these relationships.

more from a later post:
2) Etoile-- I'm saying that by anyone's standards both people are being harmed in a parent-child incestual relationship. I'm saying this is a psychologically damaging event in which people wind up emotionally and psychologically weaker-- anxious, depressed, emotionally isolated. That kind of thing. You could certainly argue that these sorts of conditions don't ensue from incestual relationships. But, clearly, these conditions are forms of damage.

3) Etoile and Lust2Learn-- I don't think it is relevant whether it is the parent or the child who does the soliciting. Whatever the age of the child, it is the parent's responsibility to do the right thing. My kids want to do all sorts of things that are bad for them. But if I allow them to do those things, I am at fault. Obviously, that is true in my case (I'm in my 40's and my kids are young). I'm arguing, however, that similar dynamics of authority ought operate even if the parent is 50 and the child is 30 years old.

4) Lust2Learn-- I am making a broad generalization here. I think incest between parents and children is a harmful thing in all forms. I think it undermines what the parent should bring to the relationship. That doesn't mean that such a relationship can't be emotionally nurturing and sexually rewarding. However, I do believe that, on balance, sexual relationships between parents and children are overwhelmingly bad.

From a later post: As for sibling sex, my guess is that it takes place far more commonly that anybody wants to admit. Putting teenagers together in a house just begs for it. As long as the relationship doesn't grow into something that precludes emotional growth or other, more appropriate romantic relationships I doubt there is much damage done when siblings "experiment" with each other occasionally.

In terms of cousins? Lets be honest. Who out there hasn't wanted to fuck a cute cousin?

 

[Edward Teach]

?

What if the shark wanted to join in?

?

If it was good lookin', I guess it would be okay, but they usually just like to circle around and watch. They're pervy mo'fos.

Good to see you Lisa!

 

[Lisa Denton]

If it was good lookin', I guess it would be okay, but they usually just like to circle around and watch. They're pervy mo'fos.

Good to see you Lisa!

Hey Teach, whazup?

Have you heard the one about the shark and his daughter that walked into a gay bar and ........................................................................

 

[elfin_odalisque]

A while ago we had a long discussion about incest, about why it's such a popular subject for stories when few people will admit to actually having incestuous feelings for members of their own families. It seems like something of a paradox.

The analogy was made to murder stories, claiming that we all like to read a good mystery, though few if any of us actually fantasize about murdering anyone. But I think that's a false analogy, because the nature of the incest story is to focus on the sex itself, not just to mention it in passing. A truer comparison would be to a slasher story in which the murder is described in loving detail, just as the sex is described in an incest story. I don't think many of us would be interested in reading something like that.

So it remains: why is incest so popular?

Insomuch as you mean Poirot, Kojak or Columbo, I would agree. However, there is a modern school, including Patricia Cornwell, Thomas Harris and Karin Slaughter, who have taken us into the graphic detail of grotesque mutilations - the 'sex' of pathological murder - with relish.

The comparison with incest is close. Just as we wouldn't want to witness or suffer being skinned alive or tied up and stabbed frenziedly a hundred times, we turn the pages avidly. The sales numbers prove it and we relate to incest in the same vicarious way.

'Flowers in the Attic' (Virginia Andrews, btw) and the rest of her series focused on how generation pressure could force siblings to bond together. This was pretty black incest - even with a resolution.

Parent/child incest is unbelievable (outside abuse) when applied to your own family because we know our parents never had more than procreational sex just enough times to have 2.3 children. We read incest as third party sex, first person just puts it in a kind of report format.

Why is it popular? It is naughty, it involves the maximum of sexual opportunity with the minimum of plot contrivance and appeals to the wide range of readers that cover stroke to abused and fantasist.

 

[Pure]

note to varian

your 'pig' incest story is hot, indeed. having the sister forced to 'do' her bro solves a lot of probs, in particular the one mab first mentioned, the one stressed by several posters, that incest *apparently* has little appeal.

iow, she's free to indulge herself, or so the author lets us imagine. she's carrying out orders.

further the brother is tied and his 'say' is virtually eliminated. the effect of this is that his views about incest and morality are neatly shelved.

the story, like some other dark ones, highlights an intriguing aspect of incest. the 'reduction' of a human being, so he or she is like some wild animals who apparenly don't give a shit about incest.

the young woman is reduced to bodily functioning. the guy become a spurting cock, despite it being his sister.

the way you framed the act is well done!

 

[y=mx+b]

it's interesting to ponder... sex involving me and any of my family relation is gross to think about. sex involving someone else and any of their family relation I find rather quite erotic.

 

[NoJo]

it's interesting to ponder... sex involving me and any of my family relation is gross to think about. sex involving someone else and any of their family relation I find rather quite erotic.

How about if I had sex with your Mum