Should Sarah Palin stay home with her kids?

[Guest]

This whole thread began as a question for discussion.

Gleeful and hateful derision aside, I wonder if we accomplished anything.

DP = saying a bunch of Liberals in that tone??? WFT? You can't refer to people you know on this forum in a better way than that?

And Rox, I hardly think hypocrite is a label you should drop on others.

 

[DesertPirate]

Just picking up on this for a second -

What I thought had a taste of hypocritical was the one sentence "We are very happy that she chose to have the baby", which implies that her daughter was given the very same choice her mother is trying to deny other women.

The way the laws are written/enforced in many states it's a wonder the parents knew.

 

[cantdog]

You have no clue what the word "liberal" actually means, do you?

To DP, Stella, it means The Enemy.

I lived with one of these people for many years. My father had blinders, so designed that nothing was seen that contradicted his rightist convictions. Whole events in the news, whole events in the life of his children, disappeared very quickly, as if they had never happened, because they showed the fallacy of his assumptions.

The older he got, the longer and more effective grew his blinders.

Ideologies require blinders.

But carry on, and fight the good fight. Spread before him the evidence, demonstrate the holes in his arguments. Once in a great while, it sinks in.

 

[DesertPirate]

A true liberal would be Thomas Jefferson. In todays world a true, classical definition liberal would be Lieberman.

Then there is the radical left ...

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

One insightful poster noted that:

in a world where inadequate sexual information is given to one's daughters, stuff along the lines of abstinence-only, teen pregnancies will happen.

and the idea is, first, pregnancy is punishment for the loose women who failed to practice saintly abstinence . . .

Insightful? I'd say it's fricking clairvoyant - how do we know what this mom did or didn't tell her daughter, or what her attitude is to teenagers who get pregnant? I'll bet you $1,000 that both before and after her own daughter got pregnant her attitude was sympathy. There's nothing contradictory between that and thinking that unwed mothers are not best for kids or society.

 

[cantdog]

Insightful? I'd say it's positively fricking clairvoyant - how do we know what this mom did or didn't tell her daughter, or what her attitude is to teenagers who get pregnant? I'll bet you $1,000 that both before and after her own daughter got pregnant her attitude was sympathy. There's nothing contradictory between that and thinking that unwed mothers are not best for kids or society.

Yeah. Like you stand for honesty and integrity. Get a life.

 

[cantdog]

The fact is, unlike you, "Rox," Sarah Palin is a Christian fundie fascist. She has convictions. She has acted in precisely the right ways, the ways her culture finds acceptable.

Whether or not she was compassionate is irrelevant to my point. Assume she is. Assume she isn't. My point stands. She has been recognized by the ideological Christo-fascist right as one of their own, and they have signed on again with the GOP ticket.

 

[Guest]

A true liberal would be Thomas Jefferson. In todays world a true, classical definition liberal would be Lieberman.

Then there is the radical left ...

I don't think you know the difference, DP.

When you post "liberal" you may as well be posting "bastard" because that's how it comes across. I can even see the sneer.

It isn't deserved.

There are intelligent people around here who care about this country as much as you do. Can't you see past the talking points?

 

[shereads]

The most eloquent statement on abortion rights was inadvertently made by Dan Quayle, a staunch anti-choicer. He was asked "What would you say to your thirteen-year-old daughter if she told you she was pregnant?"

Caught off guard, the veep blurted out a purely honest reply: "I'm confident that together, my wife and I would help our daughter make the right choice."

The interviewer followed up: "Then you're saying that your daughter should have a choice?"

His reply was stammering and incoherent. He'd been caught answering not as a politician but as a parent who wouldn't dream of forcing his little girl to give birth.

 

[Guest]

The most eloquent statement on abortion rights was inadvertently made by Dan Quayle, a staunch anti-choicer. He was asked "What would you say to your thirteen-year-old daughter if she told you she was pregnant?"

Caught off guard, the veep blurted out a purely honest reply: "I'm confident that together, my wife and I would help our daughter make the right choice."

The interviewer followed up: "Then you're saying that your daughter should have a choice?"

His reply was stammering and incoherent. He'd been caught answering not as a politician but as a parent who wouldn't dream of forcing his little girl to give birth.

I remember that - even posted about it on one of these threads.

Of course, the next day he'd had a stern talking to from the folks in charge and he'd amended his ways to adhere to the party line.

 

[shereads]

The fact is, unlike you, "Rox," Sarah Palin is a Christian fundie fascist. She has convictions. She has acted in precisely the right ways, the ways her culture finds acceptable.

Whether or not she was compassionate is irrelevant to my point. Assume she is. Assume she isn't. My point stands. She has been recognized by the ideological Christo-fascist right as one of their own, and they have signed on again with the GOP ticket.

Amen.

Or some less biblical word to that effect.

 

[Guest]

Amen.

Or some less biblical word to that effect.

Fucking - A!

(less church-y)

 

[cantdog]

I don't think you know the difference, DP.

When you post "liberal" you may as well be posting "bastard" because that's how it comes across. I can even see the sneer.

It isn't deserved.

There are intelligent people around here who care about this country as much as you do. Can't you see past the talking points?

Credentialed people of DP's political stripe have published sneering bios of Jefferson, in the last decade. They wish to remove his image from the nickel.

Whereas, it is the liberal spirit of Jefferson and Paine which galvanized the people of the colonies to resist the mother country. No amount of revisionist history can obscure it.

 

[DesertPirate]

I don't think you know the difference, DP.

When you post "liberal" you may as well be posting "bastard" because that's how it comes across. I can even see the sneer.

It isn't deserved.

There are intelligent people around here who care about this country as much as you do. Can't you see past the talking points?

It's the so called intelligentsia that won't tollerate any other view that I would like to slap the crap out of
In my opinion the number 2 on the Republican ticket is more qualified than the number 1 on the Democrat ticket. Deal with it. Obama would hurt this country worse than anyone.

Before the blame it all on Bush crap starts, save it, heard it all, most is ridiculous.

 

[cantdog]

Bush lovers are a dying breed. Stick to your post, DP. Someone has to be the one to be purblind to the end.

 

[Guest]

It's the so called intelligentsia that won't tollerate any other view that I would like to slap the crap out of
In my opinion the number 2 on the Republican ticket is more qualified than the number 1 on the Democrat ticket. Deal with it. Obama would hurt this country worse than anyone.

Before the blame it all on Bush crap starts, save it, heard it all, most is ridiculous.

It isn't ridiculous. Not when so many people are truly hurting.

You don't really give a shit, do you?

That's what it means to be conservative, then? All the God and home and country is just a sham?

How dare you speak of intolerance.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

This whole thread began as a question for discussion.

Gleeful and hateful derision aside, I wonder if we accomplished anything.

DP = saying a bunch of Liberals in that tone??? WFT? You can't refer to people you know on this forum in a better way than that?

And Rox, I hardly think hypocrite is a label you should drop on others.

Hmmm - what's the definition of "hypocrite?" Disagreeing with liberals? Accusing them of hypocricy when liberals suddenly discover "family values" in the midst of a manufactured political firestorm about a conservative mother?

As you know, I'm not derisive of liberals, because I know that you are all motivated by the same goodwill as libertarians like me, and as conservatives. That doesn't mean I'm not tough on liberals when I think their wrong, which is about 60 percent of the time. And it doesn't mean that I'm going to pretend that liberals aren't liberals. (I usually use the term "left" instead of liberal, because liberal has a broader meaning that applies to all of us and is useful.)

Has there been hateful derision in this thread? I know I've been tough and uncompromising, but that's not out-of-bounds in the hard-ball game of electoral politics at this level. Who's been hatefully derisive?

 

[shereads]

It's the so called intelligentsia that won't tollerate any other view that I would like to slap the crap out of
In my opinion the number 2 on the Republican ticket is more qualified than the number 1 on the Democrat ticket. Deal with it. Obama would hurt this country worse than anyone.

Before the blame it all on Bush crap starts, save it, heard it all, most is ridiculous.

When anyone bitches about the "so called intelligentia" you can be certain you're dealing with a Bush voter. Aside from the marketable last name, Dubya's big political strength was that he made plodding thinkers feel better about themselves. He was the antithesis of the "intellekshul uhleet." That played pretty well when all he had to do was talk cowboy. Then things got serious, and people slowly began to realize that intelligence is a valuable asset in a Leader of the Free World.

These days, it's not just Democrats who consider Bush a pathetic screw-up. Notice that he was too busy "monitoring the hurricane" to attend his party's convention. Then the hurricane fizzled out and he was too busy with...other stuff. Speaking of too busy to attend the convention, where's Dick? Has he retired to Dubai already?

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's the so called intelligentsia that won't tollerate any other view that I would like to slap the crap out of
In my opinion the number 2 on the Republican ticket is more qualified than the number 1 on the Democrat ticket. Deal with it. Obama would hurt this country worse than anyone.

Before the blame it all on Bush crap starts, save it, heard it all, most is ridiculous.

That surely explains it all, DP. You've come up with the most reasonable, telling, explication of the rightwing ethos yet.

I'm so impressed!

 

[DesertPirate]

It isn't ridiculous. Not when so many people are truly hurting.

You don't really give a shit, do you?

That's what it means to be conservative, then? All the God and home and country is just a sham?

How dare you speak of intolerance.

So lets go back to Jimmy Carter and 20% inflation and 10%+ unemployment, boy those were the days

For cantdog, I admire what Jefferson, Pain and Franklin did. I also admit they were human and made mistakes. In the long run the accomplishments are much greater.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So lets go back to Jimmy Carter and 20% inflation and 10%+ unemployment, boy those were the days

For cantdog, I admire what Jefferson, Pain and Franklin did. I also admit they were human and made mistakes. In the long run the accomplishments are much greater.

And so safely back in the far-away past, too. Like a novel.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

To DP, Stella, (liberal) means The Enemy.

I lived with one of these people for many years . . .

(To me) Yeah. Like you stand for honesty and integrity. Get a life.

You don't really give a shit, do you?
That's what it means to be conservative, then?

And Rox, I hardly think hypocrite is a label you should drop on others.

Speaking of hateful derisiveness . . .

That's alright. Passions are running high at this moment. Let's do try to distinguish between between being tough and uncompromising in our rhetoric and being nasty and mean to each other on a personal level, though.

~~~~

What triggered all this bitterness was DP snerking about "a bunch of liberals trying to defend a traditional role for a woman." There's nothing wrong with that crack. Most of the people here are liberals - there's nothing wrong with that, either. I've been tougher than DP here - and there's nothing wrong with what I've said either. This is hardball, and if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. But we should still not say mean personal things about each other.

 

[Guest]

Jimmy Carter? WTF?

Wait, don't tell me. That was in an email you got from the GOP, telling you what to say if people challenged you.

C'mon, DP! When Carter was president I was in elementary school. How about something a little more recent?

 

[cantdog]

Speaking of hateful derisiveness . . .

That's alright. Passions are running high at this moment. Let's do try to distinguish between between being tough and uncompromising and being nasty and mean to each other on a personal level, though.

~~~~

What triggered all this bitterness was DP snerking about "a bunch of liberals trying to defend a traditional role for a woman." There's nothing wrong with that crack. Most of the people here are liberals - there's nothing wrong with that, either. I've been tougher than DP here - and there's nothing wrong with what I've said either. This is hardball, and if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. But we should still not say mean personal things about each other.

No, sir. What triggered this derisiveness was something a bit more fundamental.

 

[Guest]

Speaking of hateful derisiveness . . .

That's alright. Passions are running high at this moment. Let's do try to distinguish between between being tough and uncompromising and being nasty and mean to each other on a personal level, though.

~~~~

What triggered all this bitterness was DP snerking about "a bunch of liberals trying to defend a traditional role for a woman." There's nothing wrong with that crack. Most of the people here are liberals - there's nothing wrong with that, either. I've been tougher than DP here - and there's nothing wrong with what I've said either. This is hardball, and if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. But we should still not say mean personal things about each other.

I can stand the heat, baby.

But I do take personally the comment about "a bunch of liberals" used in that hated way.

It's almost like a racial slur.

I've held back. But I don't have to.

But here in the AH we'll need to keep the heat to just a few threads because we are causing concern among the others. Not everyone here is situated in the U.S.