Ugly Americans

[keeblercrumb]

Being expatriate, I have on occasion had conversations with foreigners (you know who you are!!) on annoying things about us, "Ugly Americans".

Let me start with what Russians tell me....as I just had this conversation with a Russian friend today. What was striking to me was a former "friend" had almost the exact same list of items back before we were... mmmm... "former". So, I conclude, there might just be some truth to them, at least for Russians.

1. Too polite. "Please this", "Please that". "Thank you this", "Thank you that", etc.. (Somewhere up there my Mother must be beaming right about now... "Sorry Mom, but I still leave my clothes on the floor"). I, of course, rejoined that you think WE'RE polite! You oughta hang around those damn Brits... they are so bloody polite they think WE are rude!

2. All that "Good morning"; "Good afternoon", "Good night", and "How are you?" stuff . Actually, I think that is why my ex left me, she HATED when I said "Good night" to her! (Well, maybe it was because she was pregnant with somebody else's baby...). Now what makes this even odder, is that Russian men have a ritual in the morning of shaking each others hand whenever they meet. (Safety Tip for today: Look for the guy who EVERYONE shakes hands with. Stay away from his girlfriend.) This civility does not extend much further apparently or may not include women. Now that I think about it... I don't even know what the hell to say to someone the first time we speak other than "How are you?" When I was 19, it was “Nice sweater Baby!”

3. Talk too loud. Okay... Now THIS one I can buy. Hell, I think other Americans are too loud and I KNOW my friends and I are.... Luckily, for us, most Russians don't know what we are saying. But I have this slight hearing problem and..... never mind. Guilty. At least everywhere I have been.

4. Laugh too loud. Similar to #3 but even more so. I always thought it was because we were just funnier, but my British friends have advised me that THEIR humor is vastly superior and far more sophisticated and witty than ours even if it does only result in murmured, polite snickering. Usually Monty Python is thrown in our face at this time too. I always respond with just two words: "Benny Hill".
But anyway, the Russians think we laugh too loud, as well.

5. Mono-linguistic. Okay... guilty again, but the truth is you CAN go just about anywhere and people speak far better English than we speak their language. I would blame the Brits for this as well. The only significant exception to this are Louisianans, who speak several languages but all at the same time so they cannot be understood by anyone.

6. Ego-centric. Who? Us? Compared to who? Who are they?

At this point, the list of annoying traits started to get a little personal and I reminded her that unless she was planning on paying the check for the meal, we had probably discussed this enough. That resonated, as we loud, obnoxious Americans are fond of saying in English.

Anyway..... so for those of you who travel abroad, are now abroad, or are actually one of THOSE people,... I am curious how you feel about this? Agree?

For those who are simply a broad, PM me.



-KC

 

[FatDino]

Some of you are sexy as hell. That's all I'm saying.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

KEEBLER

Your list is accurate every place I've been.

Americans are easy to spot wherever you go. Its the mouth full of teeth and general good health that makes us stand out. And we dont wear berets.

I say fuck the chicken kickers if they cant take a joke.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

American here but expatriate by temperament (and soon to move to France for good). My gf is from Paris and we talk about this a lot. She, of course, thinks I'm the exception to most of the rules about the typical American traits you mentioned. I must confess, though, that I am overly-guilty of the "thank you," "yes m'am," "no m'am" thing but it's because I'm from the south, I think. Anyway, in general, I'd say you're on target.

 

[rgraham666]

If your Russian friend dislikes Americans because they're polite she's going to loathe Canadians.

 

[impressive]

Sticks and stones...

 

[Liar]

"Polite" is subjective. Some would say that sincerly greeting and treating eveyone as a friend is to be polite. Others would think of it as rude and intrusive. ("How are you, dahling?" "Hung over, but that's none of your business, can I just have my latte please?")

But if I was to stereotype... Americans I've met have generally been loud, boisterous, extrovert, social, friendly and enthusiastic about...well...everything. Which are all traits that can be a little exhausting if exaggerated, but that are far better than the opposite. So overall, you're a quite likeable bunch.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I recall a colleague who went ballistic when our supervisor said MERRY CHRISTMAS to the staff. She ran from the building, called her husband, who came down to kick the supervisors ass.

Maybe Marty was too polite.

 

[Kiele]

Americans who travel overseas are not real Americans.

 

[keeblercrumb]

Rocket Man

If your Russian friend dislikes Americans because they're polite she's going to loathe Canadians.

I did not mean to say she dislikes Americans... on the contrary.. she seems very fond of at least one of us. It is more of a "You Americans are..." fill in the blank thing.

Which is not to say she would not loath Canadiens... ehh?



-KC

 

[trysail]

Ahhh, yes, the always fun game of national personalities...


If you observe a group of three to five people making
a loud racket— a group apparently oblivious to the
sensibilities of the people around them— it's a
good bet you're in the presence of Americans.
(We all know the American method for speaking
a foreign language— it's simple— all one need do
is to speak English more slowly and louder! )

The Brits are usually a good deal quieter, subtle,
informed and worldly, though there are quite
boisterous exceptions (e.g., football hooligans).

The Germans are wonderful one-on-one but when a
bunch of 'em get together...

The Froggies tend to blend into the background but,
can be, on occasion, as loud and obnoxious as
anybody. As individuals, they are delightful.

If you see a flag and a camera-bedecked crowd close
behind, you've located the Japanese.

If you espy what resembles a small riot, you've
discovered the Italians.

... and so on.

 

[cantdog]

This is more subtle, but I find the one thing all Americans begin by doing is the big smile. Europeans do not grin at strangers like cretins, but meet them with sober mien and the exchange that follows, hand shaking or whatever, kissing the cheek, is performed with dignity.

Americans want to be liked too much, perhaps.

Lose the grin, at least in the first few moments, and you'll raise fewer hackles.

 

[impressive]

Lose the grin, at least in the first few moments, and you'll raise fewer hackles.

Fuck that. If smiling raises hackles, I don't think I care to be acquainted.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I live in a neighborhood with a lot of Russian immigrants, and I can tell you that many of them are unbelievably rude and boorish. Not just when it comes to politeness, but in terms of basic civilized behavior--shoving past you in lines, grabbing things out of your hands in the supermarket, hitting you with their shopping carts to make you move. They're not human; they're swine.

I imagine it comes from dealing with those food lines all the time under communism, but these people are just vicious. Americans abroad might be annoying, but these people are truly ugly: small, mean-spirited and vulgar.

 

[sr71plt]

I've lived outside the States off and on (mostly on) since I was six years old, and I've increasingly seen Americans blend into the scenery in environments foreign to them--until they have become, by no means, the most stand out or obnoxious of the general picture of national groups traveling/living abroad. I think the whole "ugly American" thing has become an outdated stereotype.

 

[Liar]

I live in a neighborhood with a lot of Russian immigrants, and I can tell you that many of them are unbelievably rude and boorish. Not just when it comes to politeness, but in terms of basic civilized behavior--shoving past you in lines, grabbing things out of your hands in the supermarket, hitting you with their shopping carts to make you move. They're not human; they're swine.

That's kind of interresting. I assume it may have to do with from where and what in Russia they immigrated.

Stockholm has a fairly large Russian population. They are all very modest and well behaved, quiet and polite people who blend into the background wherever they go.

But they are the upper-middle-class big city Russians. Educated intellectuals who grasped the opportunity of booming privatization and rode the coattails of the oligarch billionairs of the late 90's to a moderate amount of wealth themselves. People who come here not to escape their own crap, but to enjoy a society with less crap in general.

 

[Vukovina]

Many of us who aren't from or weren't born in the US or Canada often mistake friendliness for danger. It makes us uneasy, angry, and we avoid it.

The assumption is usually something like: "Why are you being nice to me, how are you going to take advantage of me?"

And, yes, the "big smile" is a part of it. It makes me think of the salesman who wants to sell me something I don't want. That said, I prefer fake happiness and friendliness now than the honest grumpiness and frowns I find in Europe.

I don't find Americans particularly loud, though. I think the loudest people are usually those who thinks no one else can understand them. Since nearly everyone understands English...

 

[Belegon]

I find the assumption of "friendly=danger" interesting. We have it here, but it is more limited to exchanges between certain groups or people fulfilling certain roles. For example, that car salesman...

But I wonder if it goes deeper than that... culturally. For all of the "original sin" of the United States as regards slavery, the horrors for the native americans due to westward expansion and for all of the social ills of the 19th and 20th centuries, the US was formed and began to develop in a time when many of the exploitative traditions of the world were fading or gone.

There were never true serfs in the US. No large history of Press Gangs roaming city streets. No landed aristocracy. The US was never conquered by Saxons or Gauls or Romans or Huns or Visigoths.

So "stranger=danger" could conceivably be less rooted. Thus, "friendly stranger=danger" would also be less strong. And "well dressed clean person smiling at me" doesn't necessarily mean "the aristocrat has come to take my crops and/or my daughter".

Just musing... I'm no pysch pro or cultural anthropologist.

 

[cloudy]

I must confess, though, that I am overly-guilty of the "thank you," "yes m'am," "no m'am" thing but it's because I'm from the south, I think.

Southern Americans are probably the most polite people in the world. It's almost an instinct, bred into us along with the love of cornbread and fried foods. I'm always astonished when I go anywhere else by the rudeness of the people around me. The things they say/do just as a matter of daily interaction would cause them to be ostracized here.

Along with "please" and "thank you," I say "ma'am" and other polite words/phrases without even thinking about it. I'm not ashamed of it, either, and have raised my children the same way. I often get comments from teachers and others along the lines of "C is the most polite little boy!"

I'm not changing. Sorry.

 

[rgraham666]

We don't want you to.

How can you improve on perfection?

 

[freshface]

As an American living in Germany, I think that most Americans do blend into the scenery. The ones that refuse to blend, though, really stand out in a crowd. I've cringed more than once when a really loud American felt the need to expound on how wrong a local custom is. For instance, in Germany, dogs are allowed in restaurants, stores, public transportation etc. Most restaurants will even bring a bowl of water. The dogs are well trained and don't cause any problems. Germans accept this as a custom. I was in a restaurant one day when an American woman across the room spotted a dog asleep under a table. She acted like she was going to die on the spot from dog cooties. You'd have thought a rat ran across her plate. She explained to the whole room, in detail, that the dog shouldn't be there because they are filthy creatures. This one was perfectly clean, on a leash, and a couple of tables away from her. I was very glad that I blend in well and had to resist a strong temptation to crawl under the table. I've had a couple of stereotypical Americans walk up to me and put their faces inches from my own so that they could ask a question in really slow, loud English. I have to admit that my English skills slip in those situations. Ich verstehen Sie nicht is such a useful phrase then.

Much more common are the ones that don't understand local custom. For instance, Germans are much more reserved with strangers than Americans. You simply don't smile or nod at strangers when you walk down the street. If it is someone that you see most days, you might start to nod slightly to each other, but nothing more. I admit that when I go back to the US, it takes me a little while to adjust. After a long dose of Europeans, I find Americans to be just a little too "in your face" at first.

 

[cloudy]

We don't want you to.

How can you improve on perfection?

To be honest, though, this is probably the worst place for me to say that I actually have damn good manners - drummed into me since birth by my mother, one of the original "Southern Ladies" (You oughtta see the list of do's and don'ts )

 

[keeblercrumb]

Rocket Man

I live in a neighborhood with a lot of Russian immigrants, and I can tell you that many of them are unbelievably rude and boorish. Not just when it comes to politeness, but in terms of basic civilized behavior--shoving past you in lines, grabbing things out of your hands in the supermarket, hitting you with their shopping carts to make you move. They're not human; they're swine.

I imagine it comes from dealing with those food lines all the time under communism, but these people are just vicious. Americans abroad might be annoying, but these people are truly ugly: small, mean-spirited and vulgar.

Well, I can admit to recognizing the type, the Russians I have lived with are not quite that bad......

And even less so in Moscow....

In Perm, the major city where I lived for most of the last 5 years, there was a certain unfriendliness when dealing with strangers..... I do think that it may be the cultural reaction of centuries of despotic rule by the Czars followed by the even more despoitc century of the Soviets.....

During this entire time I would spend a few days in Germany every month or so, in a small village near Heidleberg. It was strange to go back and forth. In Germany, almost EVERYONE would smile and say hello on the street when passing you. In Russia, no one ever did... well.... Young women did but that is another whole subject....

The behavior in stores you relate was not uncommon, but not to the extent you have experienced.... Sales clerks in stores, however, were almost universally surly and aggresive... ALWAYS acting as if you are interrupting their breaktime or something. Extremely serious, as well. Excepting attractive young women, again, of course. Like the three who are coming to visit me next weekend... sighhhhh.

Even the feigned smiles and friendliness ingrained in American sales clerks was a refreshing break whenever I came home for a visit....

Now if we could train all those sweet young things to also flirt with old guys like us.... I might come home....



-KC

 

[Raine D8]

Being expatriate, I have on occasion had conversations with foreigners (you know who you are!!) on annoying things about us, "Ugly Americans".

Let me start with what Russians tell me....as I just had this conversation with a Russian friend today. What was striking to me was a former "friend" had almost the exact same list of items back before we were... mmmm... "former". So, I conclude, there might just be some truth to them, at least for Russians.

1. Too polite. "Please this", "Please that". "Thank you this", "Thank you that", etc.. (Somewhere up there my Mother must be beaming right about now... "Sorry Mom, but I still leave my clothes on the floor"). I, of course, rejoined that you think WE'RE polite! You oughta hang around those damn Brits... they are so bloody polite they think WE are rude!

2. All that "Good morning"; "Good afternoon", "Good night", and "How are you?" stuff . Actually, I think that is why my ex left me, she HATED when I said "Good night" to her! (Well, maybe it was because she was pregnant with somebody else's baby...). Now what makes this even odder, is that Russian men have a ritual in the morning of shaking each others hand whenever they meet. (Safety Tip for today: Look for the guy who EVERYONE shakes hands with. Stay away from his girlfriend.) This civility does not extend much further apparently or may not include women. Now that I think about it... I don't even know what the hell to say to someone the first time we speak other than "How are you?" When I was 19, it was “Nice sweater Baby!”

3. Talk too loud. Okay... Now THIS one I can buy. Hell, I think other Americans are too loud and I KNOW my friends and I are.... Luckily, for us, most Russians don't know what we are saying. But I have this slight hearing problem and..... never mind. Guilty. At least everywhere I have been.

4. Laugh too loud. Similar to #3 but even more so. I always thought it was because we were just funnier, but my British friends have advised me that THEIR humor is vastly superior and far more sophisticated and witty than ours even if it does only result in murmured, polite snickering. Usually Monty Python is thrown in our face at this time too. I always respond with just two words: "Benny Hill".
But anyway, the Russians think we laugh too loud, as well.

5. Mono-linguistic. Okay... guilty again, but the truth is you CAN go just about anywhere and people speak far better English than we speak their language. I would blame the Brits for this as well. The only significant exception to this are Louisianans, who speak several languages but all at the same time so they cannot be understood by anyone.

6. Ego-centric. Who? Us? Compared to who? Who are they?

At this point, the list of annoying traits started to get a little personal and I reminded her that unless she was planning on paying the check for the meal, we had probably discussed this enough. That resonated, as we loud, obnoxious Americans are fond of saying in English.

Anyway..... so for those of you who travel abroad, are now abroad, or are actually one of THOSE people,... I am curious how you feel about this? Agree?

For those who are simply a broad, PM me.



-KC

You are quite wrong. CANADIANS are polite and seen as such in Europe. ITALIANS talk louder than New Yorkers and the FRENCH from Paris are more vain than anyone (more money) from L.A. and (older money) from the East Coast of the USA.

Americans are seen as rude and childish because in Europe they articulate, "Now, now, I want it now" and "why don't you speak to me in American." Such things are common traits of the ugly American. I have seen it happen first hand.

 

[Varian P]

I live in a neighborhood with a lot of Russian immigrants, and I can tell you that many of them are unbelievably rude and boorish. Not just when it comes to politeness, but in terms of basic civilized behavior--shoving past you in lines, grabbing things out of your hands in the supermarket, hitting you with their shopping carts to make you move. They're not human; they're swine.

I imagine it comes from dealing with those food lines all the time under communism, but these people are just vicious. Americans abroad might be annoying, but these people are truly ugly: small, mean-spirited and vulgar.

Funny stuff.

I lived in Moscow for a year. At the time, it had an official population of, I think, eight million people, though it was surmised the true population was closer to eleven million, including undocumented residents.

When I arrived there from my quaint suburban city of two hundred thousand, I think my culture shock arose more from population density than a new language, alphabet and culture.

Every morning and evening, getting on and off the subway was like being swept up and away one a warm sea of jostling bodies. Getting rammed by shoulders and poked with umbrellas was par for the course. I couldn't believe how rude--hell, how brutal--those people were.

Until I started actually interacting with them in small groups and one-on-one contexts. Those same rough, indifferent brutes turned out to be the warmest, most generous, gracious people I've ever encountered. Students invited me into their homes, took me to the ballet and to museums, cooked me meals (vegetarian borscht especially for the picky American!) and set aside hours of their time and bought language books they would not let me pay for, to try to teach me Russian.

It's a dichotomy that still baffles me--the harsh public persona that shoves and elbows, and the warm-hearted people behind that facade. Of course, NYC seems that way to me too, except I haven't had as many chances to see past the brusque facade, there.