Editing Question - Still Trying to Get Better

[AsylumSeeker]

I was editing a story and I ran into a situation I was not prepared for. I understood the writer's intent and it was only a single instance so I let it go as is, and the writer's approach may very well be right, but it has been nagging me ever since. I had considered sending a PM to a more skilled editor but then I decided to let additional people share their ideas and allow an opportunity for perhaps others who may not know to have a learning experience as well.

Obviously the writer in question may likely see this thread and I hope is not offended for my having asked this question (I didn't ask). But as the saying goes, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission.

She alternately emitted low, erotic moans and higher-pitched "Oh!"'s as her sex violently convulsed against my fingers.

I'm hoping I know how to turn text red, but maybe not. If not, what I am referring to is the use of "Oh!"'s. Is this the correct way of writing it?

Would be interested to learn.

 

[sr71plt]

You can't stick the plural ending of the word after the quotes and punctuation, so the fix of just the issue you identify without rewriting should be: . . . moans and higher-pitched "Ohs!" as her sex . . .

normally, there would be a comma (inside the quote marks) separating off the "as" clause here as well, but, with the use of the exclamation point, the usual requirement of a comma is obviated.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

You can't stick the plural ending of the word after the quotes and punctuation, so the fix of just the issue you identify without rewriting should be: . . . moans and higher-pitched "Ohs!" as her sex . . .

normally, there would be a comma (inside the quote marks) separating off the "as" clause here as well, but, with the use of the exclamation point, the usual requirement of a comma is obviated.

Thanks SR. I knew it didn't look right but unless I have confidence in myself I tend to leave things be.

 

[meg1]

I'm w/ SR here, you can't put the plural outside of the quotes, it would have to be inside. I admit to being someone who uses creative words and spelling outside of stories and editing and would write "oh's" even though it's not a contraction or a possessive. In a story, I would use "ohs".

Having said that, when I don't like the way something is written, or if a spelling/phrase just isn't working for me, I change the entire thing to present as an option. For example, I would ahve given the author:

She alternately emitted low, erotic moans around each higher pitched "Oh!" as her sex violently convulsed against my fingers.

Something like that.....I wanted to keep it as close to the original as possible. Normally, I try to stay as true to what the writer wrote as possible in phrasing and voice. However, if they situation warrants it, I will change phrasing for clarification and to make it cleaner.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm w/ SR here, you can't put the plural outside of the quotes, it would have to be inside. I admit to being someone who uses creative words and spelling outside of stories and editing and would write "oh's" even though it's not a contraction or a possessive. In a story, I would use "ohs".

Having said that, when I don't like the way something is written, or if a spelling/phrase just isn't working for me, I change the entire thing to present as an option. For example, I would ahve given the author:

She alternately emitted low, erotic moans around each higher pitched "Oh!" as her sex violently convulsed against my fingers.

Something like that.....I wanted to keep it as close to the original as possible. Normally, I try to stay as true to what the writer wrote as possible in phrasing and voice. However, if they situation warrants it, I will change phrasing for clarification and to make it cleaner.

Differences in editing technique, of course, but having worked extensively with mainstream publishers, I hold off on suggesting an author rewrite it to read as I would write. Mainstream publishers are pretty sticky about not stealing the author's voice--which quite often is what they are paying to get (unless they've told you under the table that they want the author's voice changed in some direction--which does happen).

However, if I was going to go after wording with the author on this one, I would have concentrated on the word "sex" instead. A cunt is a cunt. "Sex" is a mushy noun that can cover so many possibilities--many of them more relevant (thus sending the reader's attention off) than as a substitute for cunt. Thus, "sex" is a problematic word in the flow of the sentence here.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I'm w/ SR here, you can't put the plural outside of the quotes, it would have to be inside. I admit to being someone who uses creative words and spelling outside of stories and editing and would write "oh's" even though it's not a contraction or a possessive. In a story, I would use "ohs".

Having said that, when I don't like the way something is written, or if a spelling/phrase just isn't working for me, I change the entire thing to present as an option. For example, I would ahve given the author:

She alternately emitted low, erotic moans around each higher pitched "Oh!" as her sex violently convulsed against my fingers.

Something like that.....I wanted to keep it as close to the original as possible. Normally, I try to stay as true to what the writer wrote as possible in phrasing and voice. However, if they situation warrants it, I will change phrasing for clarification and to make it cleaner.

Thanks, it's appreciated. But your response triggers another question. As I understand it (and I'm not picking on you in the least) an ellipse consists of three periods. Is it acceptable in formal writing (not in a post) to use five or six periods? I only ask this because when I see more periods than three being used I trim them back to three. Just want to be correct and not force my preferences on writers.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks, it's appreciated. But your response triggers another question. As I understand it (and I'm not picking on you in the least) an ellipse consists of three periods. Is it acceptable in formal writing (not in a post) to use five or six periods? I only ask this because when I see more periods than three being used I trim them back to three. Just want to be correct and not force my preferences on writers.

Well, no. An ellipsis (plural is ellipses) is three periods (and a publisher's ellipsis separates the periods with spaces, which a computer ellipses doesn't do). When you put an ellipsis directly after a complete sentence, you end the sentence with a period and then add the ellipsis, which gives you four periods. (The kicker is that if your sentence ends with a ? or an !, the ellipsis comes first and then the ? or the !. Ain't the English-language fun?) Using six periods is the same as running a mouse over with a bulldozer.

 

[meg1]

I say ellipses shouldn't be used in stories unless the speaker's voice is fading off. I find way too many ellipses, hyphens, parentheses in stories. Somehow whenever I read a lot of those in a story (or in a single author's body of work), I feel like the writer didn't know how to phrase whatever he had to say and was too lazy to figure it out.

Whenever I get more than a couple in a story, I ask the writer to rephrase whatever they are saying to eliminate them.

 

[meg1]

Differences in editing technique, of course, but having worked extensively with mainstream publishers, I hold off on suggesting an author rewrite it to read as I would write. Mainstream publishers are pretty sticky about not stealing the author's voice--which quite often is what they are paying to get (unless they've told you under the table that they want the author's voice changed in some direction--which does happen).

However, if I was going to go after wording with the author on this one, I would have concentrated on the word "sex" instead. A cunt is a cunt. "Sex" is a mushy noun that can cover so many possibilities--many of them more relevant (thus sending the reader's attention off) than as a substitute for cunt. Thus, "sex" is a problematic word in the flow of the sentence here.

I do understand what you are saying, and as I said, I work very hard to not take away the writer's voice, but I also feel like it is part of my job to point out where the text is not confusing to read.

In addition, I've never complained about a writer rejecting one of my suggestions. I didn't write it in the first place, I am not the one submitting it, so there is no point in me being petulant about discarded suggestions. That's just how I feel about it, I know i'm not necessarily in the majority about it.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I say ellipses shouldn't be used in stories unless the speaker's voice is fading off. I find way too many ellipses, hyphens, parentheses in stories. Somehow whenever I read a lot of those in a story (or in a single author's body of work), I feel like the writer didn't know how to phrase whatever he had to say and was too lazy to figure it out.

Whenever I get more than a couple in a story, I ask the writer to rephrase whatever they are saying to eliminate them.

Interesting, and thanks. I use them liberally and now rethinking my decision to do so. But not sure how else to indicate a pause between words.

 

[sr71plt]

Interesting, and thanks. I use them liberally and now rethinking my decision to do so. But not sure how else to indicate a pause between words.

I'd use them for a time pause between words too. So, I guess I wouldn't put a per-story number limitation on them. It would depend what the story needed to convey what it wanted to convey.

If they seemed to intrude on the read, I'd look for some contextual rather than proper punctuation issue with the manuscript.

 

[meg1]

you can pause, and you can fade off, but they should be used sparingly, in my opinion.

you can also put periods between the words for emphasis and/or anger. you can simply switch it up by saying that he/she spoke haltingly. Use a different way to describe it each time and make it more interesting.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I'd use them for a time pause between words too. So, I guess I wouldn't put a per-story number limitation on them. It would depend what the story needed to convey what it wanted to convey.

If they seemed to intrude on the read, I'd look for some contextual rather than proper punctuation issue with the manuscript.

Thanks SR, I'm thinking after reading Meg's latest post that it boils down to a matter of opinion. I'm guessing as long as the audeince is not put off, then so be it. This is Lit after all, and if the action is steamy nobody is likely to complain about "too many ellipses", lol.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks SR, I'm thinking after reading Meg's latest post that it boils down to a matter of opinion. I'm guessing as long as the audeince is not put off, then so be it. This is Lit after all, and if the action is steamy nobody is likely to complain about "too many ellipses", lol.

Yep, Meg's pointed to good ways to change it--if what's there seems to be getting too intrusive for the reader. The flow is particularly important for erotica--even in terms of sentence structure.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

An Example

Here's an example of my use of ellipses. Although without the entire story to look at (this is Ch 13 and readers of this thread likely wouldn't read the first 12 anyway) it may be difficult to understand the intention in which they were used. However, regardless...

I think I have included enough to provide a good example.


Geoffrey lingered in and out of consciousness for days. His aggravated wound festered with infection and had they not taken the risk of rescuing Juliette and employed her healing skills learned second-hand from the friar, his life would surely have been lost. Still Mary was beside herself with concern as she did all she could to save the man who had once stolen her.

<i>A blurry image formed in his mind and slowly sharpened until Geoffrey recognized the friar.

“You’ve done well, good man, and I am grateful. But one last task awaits two days north. Your life is destined to be long, and you will father children. Your offspring will not fear evil, for you will have vanquished it. </i>

His eyes tentatively opened. Mary was smiling down at him.

“You’ve had me so worried, my love.” Lips gently kissed his sweat-dampened forehead. “Your fever has finally broken.”

“Two days north,” he reiterated, fearing he’d forget the vital clue.

“Two days north?” she repeated in confusion.

And once more Geoffrey’s body went limp, returning to a semi-comatose state. It would be another day before he would awaken once and for all, and terribly hungry.

“Where are we?” he wondered aloud.

“Geoffrey? Geoffrey? Are you with us?” Mary frantically questioned, her pretty face coming into his view.

“I’m back this time,” he promised with certainty. “How long have I been sleeping?”

“A week,” Mary revealed. “You were on the brink of… had it not been for…”

She buried her head against his good shoulder and spilled wet tears on his skin. “I’ve been so frightened.”

He vaguely remembered having said something at one point, although he could not recall precisely what. “Did I speak of anything?”

“Two days north,” she instantly recalled. “It made no sense, but I have kept those words close to my heart, fearing…”

 

[meg1]

i think that's perfect

 

[sr71plt]

They look OK (other than not being publishing ellipses), assuming the ones at the end of dialogue represent tapering off of speech without completely the thought. If a sentence was interrupted by someone else talking over it, the ending should be an em dash.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Okay, thanks. Didn't want to be brought before the judge and have the ellipses kicked out of me, lol.

 

[meg1]

i already took off my ellipses kicking boots....bed time an all

 

[AsylumSeeker]

They look OK (other than not being publishing ellipses), assuming the ones at the end of dialogue represent tapering off of speech without completely the thought. If a sentence was interrupted by someone else talking over it, the ending should be an em dash.

Thanks SR, but I'm not publishing, this is just Lit after all. And yes, the voice is trailing off, not being interrupted. Thanks for your precision.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

I think that your example looks fine, but I usually put a space before an ellipsis as well as after.

You are right that an ellipsis is exactly three dots.

If you don't want to use an ellipsis in speech to indicate a pause (and strictly it should only indicate deliberately missing words which were spoken but have not been written down, as in partially overheard conversations) then you can use an endash, again with spaces before and after.

 

[sr71plt]

IIf you don't want to use an ellipsis in speech to indicate a pause (and strictly it should only indicate deliberately missing words which were spoken but have not been written down, as in partially overheard conversations) then you can use an endash, again with spaces before and after.

An en dash isn't used for this; it's an em dash (see Chicago Manual of Style 6.90). Also note that neither an en dash nor an em dash ever have spaces around them. See the examples given in the CMA, sections 6.83 through 6.96.

 

[Elianna]

Ok SR. I trust your editing skills so: I use elipsis rather frequently. I usually use them to signify that the person is thinking as I am telling the story for example in one of my chapters:

“It’s not your fault,” Mara said at once. She looked away for a moment. “It’s just…”
“What?” Angel demanded. Mara was looking at her and she almost seemed…scared.


The first time she trailed off in talking, the second time she paused as though thinking about how her friend looked. Is that correct? Does it imply what I'm trying to do, or is it confusing.

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[sr71plt]

Ok SR. I trust your editing skills so: I use elipsis rather frequently. I usually use them to signify that the person is thinking as I am telling the story for example in one of my chapters:

“It’s not your fault,” Mara said at once. She looked away for a moment. “It’s just…”
“What?” Angel demanded. Mara was looking at her and she almost seemed…scared.


The first time she trailed off in talking, the second time she paused as though thinking about how her friend looked. Is that correct? Does it imply what I'm trying to do, or is it confusing.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Without further explanation, the first instance will be taken as Angel cutting Mara off in midsentence (and, in this interpretation, the ellipsis should be an em dash [Chicago Manual of Style 6.90]).

If you want to make quite clear that Mara paused here, either looking for the right word or being emotionally choked, and Angel finally started talking, it would be best to pin that down with narration. Something like:

“It’s not your fault,” Mara said at once. She looked away for a moment. “It’s just…” Mara paused, grasping for the right word.

“What?” Angel demanded. Mara was looking at her and she almost seemed…scared.

The second use of ellipsis seems to convey what you wanted to convey quite well.

 

[Elianna]

Without further explanation, the first instance will be taken as Angel cutting Mara off in midsentence (and, in this interpretation, the ellipsis should be an em dash [Chicago Manual of Style 6.90]).

If you want to make quite clear that Mara paused here, either looking for the right word or being emotionally choked, and Angel finally started talking, it would be best to pin that down with narration. Something like:

“It’s not your fault,” Mara said at once. She looked away for a moment. “It’s just…” Mara paused, grasping for the right word.

“What?” Angel demanded. Mara was looking at her and she almost seemed…scared.

The second use of ellipsis seems to convey what you wanted to convey quite well.

Okay. I'll work on that then. Good that I'm doing it right some of the time.

Dashes hmm? Dashes. Haven't used those much. Don't know if I'm comfortable with them dashes.